20/20 Redux!

[Jeff]

@Fishmonk
Some albums are just collections of songs with no other statement other than to just enjoy it for what it is. And what is wrong with All Summer Long? Seriously, are you really a fan of this band?

Being a fan of a band doesn't mean blindly arguing that everything they did was genius.  The Beach Boys were a band of extremes, and 20/20 is a great example of that.  Cabinessence, IMO, is one of the best things by any group in the rock era, while Nearest Faraway Place ... well, if I didn't know it was recorded in 1968, I would swear it was what van Gogh was listening to when he cut off his ear.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I support Buddahat!

It's particularly enjoyable to re-think The Beach Boys post-Smiley Smile output. The reason, I think, is because they had a lot of material that was repeatedly negotiated, omitted, etc. and there could have been endless variations of albums from that time period. An album like Sunflower, for example, had an entirely different lineup but The Beach Boys changed it dramatically for commercial reasons yet it nevertheless charted lower than any other Beach Boys album at that point. There is an ongoing tendency to wonder what could have been, especially since I think it pains some Beach Boys fans to consider that despite the fact that this period was so creative, it was also the period where everything seemed to go wrong.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

@Fishmonk
Some albums are just collections of songs with no other statement other than to just enjoy it for what it is. And what is wrong with All Summer Long? Seriously, are you really a fan of this band?

Being a fan of a band doesn't mean blindly arguing that everything they did was genius.  The Beach Boys were a band of extremes, and 20/20 is a great example of that.  Cabinessence, IMO, is one of the best things by any group in the rock era, while Nearest Faraway Place ... well, if I didn't know it was recorded in 1968, I would swear it was what van Gogh was listening to when he cut off his ear.

Your Van Gogh line has me laughing on the floor! Too bad he never made it to "Summer of Love!"

[drbeachboy]

@Jeff
I can only go by what I read in his posts. If he is willing to make comments like he does, then I have the right to ask questions. I've been called on my views on this board. I think I asked legitimate questions of him.

[Dunderhead]

I like most of the songs on 20/20, I just don't like it as an album. I didn't say it was awful, just that it was weaker than any of the albums the band did since pre-1964. Geeze, don't freak out on me guys.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I like most of the songs on 20/20, I just don't like it as an album. I didn't say it was awful, just that it was weaker than any of the albums the band did since pre-1964. Geeze, don't freak out on me guys.

Did we switch places or something? Now you know how I felt on that OTHER thread:lol


In all seriousness though, I know what you mean. It doesn't flow well as an album as opposed to a collection of (great) songs. That said, I love the f*ck out of it...it sounds like an early run for Sunflower, which had the same diversity but more cohesiveness.


BTW...before anyone else calls me out for it (via Facebook or here)...there is a difference between me saying that I Went to Sleep couldn't have been included on Friends and my post about wishing Angel Come Home was on 15 Big Ones...there was more work done on ACH in 1974 than there was on IWTS during the Friends sessions.

[bossaroo]

20/20 depresses the hell out of me.

a hodge podge of less-than-stellar material by the boys.
the exclusion of Brian Wilson but the inclusion of Charles Manson.  
and a couple brilliant SMiLE fragments thrown on the end of it, totally out of context.


you done good, buddhahat  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

How was Brian excluded other than via self exclusion?

He's all over the album if you look closely.

And as far as Manson goes, at least Dennis managed to piss him off with Cease To Exist/Resist, which in turn lead to Dennis beating the merda out of Manson at a party!!! How can one not love 20/20 based on that fact alone?

[adamghost]

I like 20/20 a lot, partly because it contains two of my all-time favorite BBs tracks:  "Cabinessence" and "Be With Me."   Having said that, I don't really dislike anything on it, but if you took those two tracks off, it would lose a lot of stars in my book.

I did enjoy reading the alternate "Brian" album though.  I could visualize it.  It NEVER would have happened though.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And as for murderers and The Beach Boys: ain't Jim Gordon all over their stuff?

[bgas]

And as for murderers and The Beach Boys: ain't Jim Gordon all over their stuff?

Well, not ALL over.

[bgas]

I like most of the songs on 20/20, I just don't like it as an album. I didn't say it was awful, just that it was weaker than any of the albums the band did since pre-1964. Geeze, don't freak out on me guys.

Did we switch places or something? Now you know how I felt on that OTHER thread:lol

This is really great!  Fishmonk and Billy DOO DOO have become "Vice Versa".  Ha HA!!!!!!
( I hope Judge is OK with this)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Mike Judge?

How was Brian excluded other than via self exclusion?

He's all over the album if you look closely.

Don't even have to look that closely   Really, the first album featuring very little of Brian was Holland- Brian was on So Tough a lot more than was previously realized...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, a lot of the "Brian had no involvement in anything post Smile" BS started back when all these albums in question were written off as pathetic crap created by the idiot-no-talent "other Beach Boys" and got 1 and a half or 2 stars in the All Music Guide and it's kin.... Now that these great albums have been rightly reappraised, it's been a hard road back to any sort of truth.

[Curtis Leon]

I've always thought 20/20 was better than Sunflower. At least 20/20 didn't have a corny misstep like "Tears in the Morning".

[Dunderhead]

I've always thought 20/20 was better than Sunflower. At least 20/20 didn't have a corny misstep like "Tears in the Morning".

I love Tears In The Morning.

[Austin]

Now that these great albums have been rightly reappraised, it's been a hard road back to any sort of truth.

Eh. I don't really think the perception that Brian wasn't on these albums is unusual. I've always interpreted that in a broader sense, that 20/20 and on really don't have that Brian Wilson signature in the way the earlier albums do.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that his contributions weren't significant. But going from almost-exclusive songwriter, producer, arranger, and a principal singer for ten-so albums to needing a disclaimer like "all over the album if you look closely" -- in just two years -- is comparatively little involvement in my book.

At least 20/20 didn't have a corny misstep like "Tears in the Morning".

A "Nearest Faraway Place" fan, are we? 

[Curtis Leon]

A "Nearest Faraway Place" fan, are we? 

Not particularly, but at least it's not made for Vegas. A bit boring, though.

[buddhahat]

I like this lineup, but with one exception.  I would bump Sail Plane down to where you have Breakaway, and put Breakaway right after Can't Wait Too Long, putting it in the #7 slot, which would be the leadoff song to side two.  This would jazz things up a bit after a few somber songs, AND keep that "single leading off a side" thing that Capitol liked to do.  Make sense?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd overlooked the side b lead single - very good point. I'm going to try it in the lineup just before Walk On By with the addition of Never Learn Not To Love in the track 7 slot.

Thanks rocknroll and others for the positive comments!

Apologies to those that might have taken offence. I should have put a caveat that my opinions about 20/20 were just that: opinions, and I like these type of album reimaginings: Just the smile mix mentality applied elsewhere! But I know it's frustrating when someone is down on an album you love. What I've learned from this board is that not much is sacred in BB fandom world and I think that's a healthy thing as long as we respect each other. About the only song I've never seen somebody claim not to like here is God Only Knows!

I also wasn't trying to minimise the other bandmembers' talents. FWIW, I tried a similar thing with Sunflower (focusing on Brian tracks in the lineup) and it resulted in a weaker album. Personally I just find 20/20 to feel more like a collection of songs than a cohesive album. I think they really got it together by the time of Sunflower, but from all accounts they had to work hard to get the balance of songs right.

[Andrew G. Doe]

@Fishmonk
Some albums are just collections of songs with no other statement other than to just enjoy it for what it is. And what is wrong with All Summer Long? Seriously, are you really a fan of this band?

I think that maybe 20/20 was more along the lines of Smiley Smile, that is "we need product, tomorrow !". 12 tracks, seven of which were holdovers from previous projects, odd single sides or isolated sessions. That it's as good as it is - and it is good - is the amazing thing.

[buddhahat]

Does anyone have info on Old Folks at Home/Old Man River, such as: Is the first section, presumably "Old Folks At Home" a Brian composition or a cover or what? It kind os sounds like those Gershwin chord things Brian does on the piano.

Also, isn't the instrumental break at 1.43 amazing? I love how Brian does these breaks that don't have any obvious soloing going on. They're quite simple and often percussive in nature. Johnny Carson has a similar thing going on.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Old Folks At Home" (also generally known as "(Way Down Upon The) Swanee River")  is correctly credited to Stephen Foster in the 2fer where it first appeared. Unfortunately, said credit also gives the impression he wrote "Ol' Man River" too. Oops.

[buddhahat]

Thanks for the info  re: Stephen Foster, Andrew. I didn't know that.

[The Heartical Don]

I like 20/20.

[The Shift]

I've never really got on with 20/20. I have a chronological playlist of the BB that I listen to but I always skip to Sunflower after Friends. Anyway, I thought this was a shame given that so many great songs were cut during this period, so I thought I'd reshuffle it and create a more Brian-centric version. What I'm loving about this sequence is that it fits so much better with the feel of Wild Honey and Friends. I suspect this is down to the focus on Brian songs.

Also I've tried to sequence it with a kind of narrative and loose concept revolving around a dream but also themes of ageing, lost love, memories and death. Ok it's a much darker, sadder album than its predecessors, but then a lot of the songs at that time seem to be about loneliness and sorrow. Here's the sequence with notes on the story that could accompany it:

Do It Again - a great opener, setting the scene for an album about looking back.
Old Folks/Old Man River - Taking things down a couple of notches: Our narrator in his twighlight years turning his thoughts to the simpler pleasures of childhood: The river, cotton fields etc.
I Went To Sleep - He drifts off into a dream ...
Time To Get Alone - ... of a past love affair.
Sail Plane Song - The dream takes a psychedelic twist, the nightmarish circus organ signalling a turn for the worse ....
Walk On By - Within the dream, a brief flashback of a broken love affair.
Can't Wait Too Long - the pain of longing for the lost love
A Time To Live In Dreams - Dennis creates the heart of the album: a redemptive song where the narrator begins to make sense of the wrong turns in his life
Celebrate The News - His luck is changing
We're Together Again - Reunited with the lover
Breakaway - success in breaking away from the lonely life (maybe the moment of his death - always sounds like a good funeral song to me. Maybe it's just me though). The lyrics fit the story of a dream perfectly:  When I layed down on my bed, I heard voices in my head, Telling me now "Hey it's only a dream"
Old Man River (Vocal Section) - so maybe the narrator has slipped off to a better place, but having finally made peace with painful memories.

Ok so it would certainly be a bit of a downer, and not necessarily Mike Love's cup of tea but I think the old guy theme would've made for a groovy concept in 69 - a bit like Bookends.

Any thoughts, similar 'conceptual' reshufflings of 20/20 or other albums to offer?

Not so much a reshuffle, as a new album borrowing three songs from 20/20!