reverb on God Only Knows

[Uncomfortable Seat]

Can anyone tell me about the reverb used on Pet Sounds in general and Carl's lead on GOK in particular?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Just pure Western reverb chamber, applied at mixdown.  Keep in mind that any reverb on the vocals on this track on the Stereo Remix or Vocal Only versions are completely contemporary, the vocals are dry as they exist on the multitrack tape, so Mark had to add new reverb for the stereo mixes.

Reverb done on the backing tracks was all done live and printed to tape, using the natural reverb chambers of the studios or EMT plate.

[c-man]

Just pure Western reverb chamber, applied at mixdown.  Keep in mind that any reverb on the vocals on this track on the Stereo Remix or Vocal Only versions are completely contemporary, the vocals are dry as they exist on the multitrack tape, so Mark had to add new reverb for the stereo mixes.

Reverb done on the backing tracks was all done live and printed to tape, using the natural reverb chambers of the studios or EMT plate.

Actually, the "GOK" vocals (and the mixdown of the song) occurred at Columbia Studios...so it was their echo chamber.  Also, regarding the effects on the vocals...at least some were RECORDED that way, and printed to tape as such, like for instance Brian's lead on "You Still Believe In Me" (which, according to Mark, prevented him from artificially doubling the lead on the stereo remix) and the tape delay on Mike's lead for "Here Today".

C-Man

[Uncomfortable Seat]

are there many studios at all left today that still have live echo chambers?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Actually, the "GOK" vocals (and the mixdown of the song) occurred at Columbia Studios...so it was their echo chamber.  Also, regarding the effects on the vocals...at least some were RECORDED that way, and printed to tape as such, like for instance Brian's lead on "You Still Believe In Me" (which, according to Mark, prevented him from artificially doubling the lead on the stereo remix) and the tape delay on Mike's lead for "Here Today".

Yeah, that was my mistake (note to self, don't post at 5:30 in the morning).  I'm sure Brian would have prefered to use Western's facilities, but no 8-track there.

According to my ears and Alan Boyd, the vocals that were done at Columbia were printed dry, whereas the Western vocals were printed with the reverb from the EMT or Chamber.  The exception is indeed the tape delay on Here Today.

It makes me wonder if Brian was holding out for Western to buy an 8-track or something, why else would he not print the reverbs only at CBS?

are there many studios at all left today that still have live echo chambers?

There are quite a few, but they all originate in the past.  Western or EastWest or whatever it's going to be called still had operational chambers before the change of hands, Sunset Sound still is using theirs, and I understand Capitol still is using a couple of theirs at the tower?

I doubt there are many new studios built with chambers, but who knows?  I'm sure your best bets are older studios in Hollywood, NYC and Nashville.

[yrplace]

Actually, the "GOK" vocals (and the mixdown of the song) occurred at Columbia Studios...so it was their echo chamber.  Also, regarding the effects on the vocals...at least some were RECORDED that way, and printed to tape as such, like for instance Brian's lead on "You Still Believe In Me" (which, according to Mark, prevented him from artificially doubling the lead on the stereo remix) and the tape delay on Mike's lead for "Here Today".

Yeah, that was my mistake (note to self, don't post at 5:30 in the morning).  I'm sure Brian would have prefered to use Western's facilities, but no 8-track there.

According to my ears and Alan Boyd, the vocals that were done at Columbia were printed dry, whereas the Western vocals were printed with the reverb from the EMT or Chamber.  The exception is indeed the tape delay on Here Today.

It makes me wonder if Brian was holding out for Western to buy an 8-track or something, why else would he not print the reverbs only at CBS?

are there many studios at all left today that still have live echo chambers?

There are quite a few, but they all originate in the past.  Western or EastWest or whatever it's going to be called still had operational chambers before the change of hands, Sunset Sound still is using theirs, and I understand Capitol still is using a couple of theirs at the tower?

I doubt there are many new studios built with chambers, but who knows?  I'm sure your best bets are older studios in Hollywood, NYC and Nashville.

Actually the CBS stuff has reverb and slap on many of the vocals, the spanish bgs on "Made For These Times" has reverb for example.

You've named just about all the chambers in LA with the exception of Henson (formerly A&M) and Oceanway (formerly United). Sound City has a large one but stopped using it ages ago. In fact they put the EMT plates in the old chamber.

Lastly much of the reverb you hear on 60's Beach Boys recordings is plate not chamber. With the exception of Goldstar which only had the chambers, the other studios Brian used all had EMT's by the mid 60's and you can hear it both on the tracking dates and the mixes...... Mark

[c-man]

Mark -
the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Also, whatever happened to Wally Heider's Studio III (designed after Western 3).  Does the building still exist, and if so, is it still a studio under some other name?

Thanks,
C-Man

[yrplace]

Mark -
the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Also, whatever happened to Wally Heider's Studio III (designed after Western 3).  Does the building still exist, and if so, is it still a studio under some other name?

Thanks,
C-Man

I'd have to listen to tell you about the two songs, but Heider's is long gone. The studio whose last owner was Janna Feliciano (ex wife 0f Jose) when bankrupt in the early 80's if memory serves, and all the gear was sold off. The main building was completely gutted and turned into a group of stores and offices son after. There was one seperate studio up the street and that was taken over by producer David kirschenbaum for a while. I belive it was so badly damaged in the Northridge earthquake that it had to be torn down. At any rate it to is long gone as are the CBS and RCA studios that were nearbby.

Mark

[Roger Ryan]

For what it's worth, a friend of a former next door neighbor of mine bought one of Heider's remote trucks. He used it to record a live club show featuring my neighbor's band as well as other shows around the Detroit, MI area. The sound quality of the show I heard was just okay, but, of course, just because you're using Wally Heider's gear doesn't mean you're going to make it sound as good.

[wind chime]

I would think that nowadays that any FX would be pure digital...record it dry and then you have a gizillion options from the digital palatte...

[Uncomfortable Seat]

I would think that nowadays that any FX would be pure digital...record it dry and then you have a gizillion options from the digital palatte...

Aw no, no, I couldn't do that . . .

[c-man]

I've recently used authentic tape delay on a vocal track...man, it's cool. 
A lot of times, if there are plenty of tracks availble, people will record the vocal (or
whatever part it is) dry, then find the effect they want, and print the effect return
to an open track.   I'll usually just run the return for my snare reverb into
the input of an open channel on the board (not to tape).  Either way, you have the
ability to put compression and eq on the effect separate from the dry track.

C-Man

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

I don't have any of the bootlegs for the Pet Sounds sessions. After hearing that snippet of a God Only Knows take from the GV Boxed Set i'm left wondering if there are any complete dry cuts out there.

Do the bootlegs contain any full takes of the songs without the reverb? I understand that it was printed directly to tape but surely there must be a few takes without, no?

With the dry tracks I get more of a feel for the room and achieve a better mental picture of the musicians playing.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Surely plate reverb wouldn't have the distinct discrete iterations of the attack of the sound.

Do the bootlegs contain any full takes of the songs without the reverb? I understand that it was printed directly to tape but surely there must be a few takes without, no?

On the Pet Sounds sessions, I doubt Chuck, Larry, or Bruce started rolling any tape before they got some beasic settings going

[Jonas]

Johnston engineered Pet Sounds too?

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Darn.

A friend of mine refuses to acknowledge Brian Wilson as anything but a Phil Spector copy-cat. He calls Pet Sounds, "Spector stuff" which in turn is completely ignoring the songs and whole artistic merit of the album. The whole "Wall of Sound" ideal seems to be lost on most modern recordings (and I guess since the late sixties). Everything is dry, dry, dry and loud, loud, loud. I wonder if this is because of the lack of stimulating ways to achieve the effects (like a reverb chamber). I've got to admit, flicking a switch on a little VCR sized box isn't exciting at all.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Johnston engineered Pet Sounds too?

Bruce as in Bruce Botnick, Sunset Sound engineer in residence.

H&V, email me since my PMs don't work.

[Jonas]

Word!

[c-man]

the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Surely plate reverb wouldn't have the distinct discrete iterations of the attack of the sound.

Yeah, you're probably right about that.  But if it was just tape delay, wouldn't it only repeat once, intead of many times?

C-Man

[yrplace]

the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Surely plate reverb wouldn't have the distinct discrete iterations of the attack of the sound.

Yeah, you're probably right about that.  But if it was just tape delay, wouldn't it only repeat once, intead of many times?

C-Man

Ahh now I realize you were referring to the slap not the reverb used on the two songs. Yes that is tape slap or repeat. THe multiple repeats is achieved by feeding a small amount of the tape slap pb back into the input.... Mark

[c-man]

the 'verb or delay used for the drums on "I'm So Young" and the tambourine on "Please Let Me Wonder" - is that tape or plate?

Surely plate reverb wouldn't have the distinct discrete iterations of the attack of the sound.

Yeah, you're probably right about that.  But if it was just tape delay, wouldn't it only repeat once, intead of many times?

C-Man

Ahh now I realize you were referring to the slap not the reverb used on the two songs. Yes that is tape slap or repeat. THe multiple repeats is achieved by feeding a small amount of the tape slap pb back into the input.... Mark

Ah, gotcha.  Can you think of any examples of plate reverb on Beach Boys songs?

Thanks,
C-Man

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Ah, gotcha.  Can you think of any examples of plate reverb on Beach Boys songs?

I've started to wonder about this myself.  I wonder if Carl's guitar on California Girls, or the other guitarist in the booth playing on the intro (I'm sure you know if that's Howard or Jerry, Craig), or both of them aren't going into EMT.  It's such a metallic sound.  I'd always attributed that great sound to Western's glorious chamber, but ever since Mark mentioned that I shouldn't forget the EMT plates, I've had to go back and listen harder.