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Author Topic: Opinions on BWPS  (Read 16066 times)
Peter Reum
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2011, 09:08:23 PM »

I am very much looking forward to the release of Sessions because I think it will bring thousands of people  only vaguely familiar to Brian`s innovative work from back in 1966-67 to more acquaintance with it. I think it will also help many who don`t know the progressive side of The Beach Boys to become more familiar with their more adventurous work. I honestly think Brian was using digital types of recording methods 20 years before their time. Not to mention that so much of the Smile music is "pictures in sound."
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2011, 09:48:36 PM »

I do agree with those who prefer the live version.  As such, I listen to the Carnegie Hall recording (broadcast by NPR) more than the official BWPS.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4182988

There's a reason that BWPS has a score of 97 at metacritics (and is the highest-rated non-reissue).  Two words: THE MUSIC.  Let's face it.  The Smile songs are incredible, and the musicianship on BWPS is great.

It'll be interesting to see how the Beach Boys' Smile Sessions will do with on metacritics.  97 will be hard to beat.  Most here (including me) prefer the original tracks and the BBs' vocals, but the Sessions' incompleteness (at least compared with BWPS) will likely earn a few demerits from some critics.



How can I burn the Carnegie 2-parter at NPR onto CD?

I recommended downloading this, Don

http://www.nch.com.au/switch/index.html

I think he meant how can he rip the audio from the site.
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2011, 10:28:22 PM »

Actually, people can agree or disagree about their quality, but they need to stop making ridiculous statements like BWPS is "the final word on SMiLE" and "SMiLE as history made it."

That's your opinion, not mine. I don't need to stop making those statements that you quote which are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. And they're NOT ridiculous. In my opinion, you are biased and too much in love with dreaming up an album that never came to existence. I'll state it again: As a composition, BWPS is SMiLE as history made it. There just IS NO 1967 Beach Boys album called SMiLE. There's a bunch of unfinished recordings which, however, individually sound way better than the BWPS album offering.

Claiming that the one excludes the other is just dumb.

What do you mean by excluding? I'll enjoy listening to the forthcoming box a lot. But it's still unfinished stuff that - in terms of composition - BWPS is the final word on. So there!  Evil
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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2011, 02:32:51 AM »

Very interesting, arranged well. Don't like some of the "new" lyrics. The voices just don't have the character of The Beach Boys circa 1966. Sadly that goes double for Brian. Still I like it but listen to the more finished Beach Boys takes much more often.
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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2011, 04:55:29 AM »

Actually, people can agree or disagree about their quality, but they need to stop making ridiculous statements like BWPS is "the final word on SMiLE" and "SMiLE as history made it."

I agree with your first point about BWPS being the final word, but surely BWPS is Smile as history made it in terms of being the only finished version that we have?
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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2011, 05:08:59 AM »

Actually, people can agree or disagree about their quality, but they need to stop making ridiculous statements like BWPS is "the final word on SMiLE" and "SMiLE as history made it."

I agree with your first point about BWPS being the final word, but surely BWPS is Smile as history made it in terms of being the only finished version that we have?

Couldn't agree more. To repeat an analogy: had Rembrandt painted something in his '20s, put it aside because he could not finish it, and 40 years later put the final touches on it, we would accept it as the real and finalized thing. Although, yes, the original group is absent, and circumstances are different, the true auteur of SMiLE decided in 2003/2004 that, based on his own blueprint, and planning to work with his original collaborator, to finish what he once had started.

Therefore I conclude, with conviction, that BWPS is the last word on SMiLE.
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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2011, 07:26:26 AM »

It may be Brian's last "word" on it but what does he know? He didn't run a thing about it by me first.
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« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2011, 07:57:35 AM »

I am very much looking forward to the release of Sessions because I think it will bring thousands of people  only vaguely familiar to Brian`s innovative work from back in 1966-67 to more acquaintance with it. I think it will also help many who don`t know the progressive side of The Beach Boys to become more familiar with their more adventurous work. I honestly think Brian was using digital types of recording methods 20 years before their time[/i]. Not to mention that so much of the Smile music is "pictures in sound."

He was indeed working with those methods in analog, at a time when taking a razor blade to the tape was the only way to edit. The way certain parts of Good Vibrations, Smile, and especially Smiley Smile were constructed is as close to a model for digital sequencing and cut-and-paste editing as you'll probably find. Not that Brian was the only one doing this kind of thing, but the results speak for themselves on a record like Good Vibrations and the way Smiley Smile was constructed.

I've been getting into old Ernie Kovacs videos recently, and someone had a comment about Ernie's use of videotape, editing, and staging his skits that read something like: "he was doing this stuff 20 years before it was invented" and I think the same applies to Brian's approach to making records in 1966-67, after Pet Sounds took the Wall Of Sound as far as he wanted it to go.
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« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2011, 08:43:12 AM »

It may be Brian's last "word" on it but what does he know? He didn't run a thing about it by me first.

 LOL
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« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2011, 11:03:03 AM »

It was great to see live, twice. The first US tour for it was also the first time I ever saw Brian live. Best 16th birthday present ever!
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« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2011, 01:46:27 PM »

As far as SMiLE reaching across the generations, consider this: when BWPS came out, the favorite track of both my daughters (younger than 10 at the time) was "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". I find that fascinating.

(If I had heard that song when I was a kid in the 60s, it would have terrified me!)

Said older daughter also wore a fire helmet to the Disney Concert Hall show...
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« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2011, 03:02:56 PM »

I do agree with those who prefer the live version.  As such, I listen to the Carnegie Hall recording (broadcast by NPR) more than the official BWPS.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4182988

There's a reason that BWPS has a score of 97 at metacritics (and is the highest-rated non-reissue).  Two words: THE MUSIC.  Let's face it.  The Smile songs are incredible, and the musicianship on BWPS is great.

It'll be interesting to see how the Beach Boys' Smile Sessions will do with on metacritics.  97 will be hard to beat.  Most here (including me) prefer the original tracks and the BBs' vocals, but the Sessions' incompleteness (at least compared with BWPS) will likely earn a few demerits from some critics.



How can I burn the Carnegie 2-parter at NPR onto CD?

I recommended downloading this, Don

http://www.nch.com.au/switch/index.html

I think he meant how can he rip the audio from the site.

Oops!  Wrong NCH program.  I meant to post this link...

http://www.nch.com.au/soundtap/index.html

My humblest apologies.   Shrug



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« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2011, 03:13:05 PM »

I will never get over the sight of Brian frickin' Wilson singing "Surf's Up" on the Sydney Opera House stage and just beaming.

There's three solid decades in which that would have been just impossible to even try to picture.

The finished album is a thing of beauty, the live performances were like seeing the Mona Lisa get up and dance, the new release is going to be the most gorgeous unfinished jigsaw puzzle imaginable.  None takes anything away from the others.

And as someone who was around for all the carping about artificial keyboards and whether Darian sang the odd "doo-you" too loudly, I'm delighted to see so many people here being able to take a step back and say, yeah, this album's pretty damn wonderful, isn't it?

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2011, 04:33:05 PM »

I really love BWPS and always have. Okay, yes, I would have preferred it with Brian's young voice and the BBs' voices. But the question of whether it's authentic is really a non-issue for me. Brian and VDP worked on it and gave their approval. That's enough for me. (Lucky for us we got the original creators working on it and not some random guy in 50 years.)  Plus, even if it didn't have the backstory and the mythology around it, it would be an amazing piece of music. If some unknown released these songs with these arrangements, he/she would be hailed as a genius. I can see bands and vocalists performing this in 100 years. The live aspect is just too good to pass up. 

Speaking of which, I prefer the Carnegie performance to the CD as well. I'm sure it's been cleaned up, but it's just perfect and beautiful, with tons of character. I'm not techie enough to rip a live stream, but if anyone manages to do it and wants to send... I'd love that.
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« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2011, 04:53:15 PM »

BWPS is a great listen, but those first RFH shows are terrific. lots more energy than the studio version or the Carnegie Hall shows.
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« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2011, 05:11:47 PM »

Quote
Speaking of which, I prefer the Carnegie performance to the CD as well. I'm sure it's been cleaned up, but it's just perfect and beautiful, with tons of character. I'm not techie enough to rip a live stream, but if anyone manages to do it and wants to send... I'd love that.

Me too! The "sunny down snuff" section...awesome vocal riff on that.
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« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2011, 06:02:50 PM »

The Carnegie show was not sweetened at all, as far as I can tell.  They did, however, choose the best performances from the two nights for broadcast.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 04:49:12 AM by pancakerecords » Logged

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« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2011, 03:58:22 AM »

The Carnegie show was not sweetened at all, as far as I can tell.  They did, however, choose the pest performances from the two nights for broadcast.

Really? I'll readily admit that it is extremely contagious, but as for the rest...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2011, 04:49:46 AM »

The Carnegie show was not sweetened at all, as far as I can tell.  They did, however, choose the pest performances from the two nights for broadcast.

Really? I'll readily admit that it is extremely contagious, but as for the rest...  Roll Eyes

I really shouldn't type standing on my head.
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« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2011, 05:46:42 AM »

The Carnegie show was not sweetened at all, as far as I can tell.  They did, however, choose the pest performances from the two nights for broadcast.

Really? I'll readily admit that it is extremely contagious, but as for the rest...  Roll Eyes

I really shouldn't type standing on my head.

 LOL
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« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2011, 02:20:44 AM »

Yes, the entire second movement is just so powerful - the first night, by the end of "Song for Children", I was a wreck.
HA! You weren't the only one AGD!
I went with a handful of adult, male friends and we were all weeping tears of joy.

Now that some years have passed and I can reflect clearly, I believe this BW album is best heard as a live performance.
The album itself has some flaws that drive me crazy- vocal blend with too much Foskett in spots, pro-tooled to death, the way "You're Under Arrest" is spoken in an non-humorous way, the call & response between Brian and Taylor- specifically Taylor Mills, the megaphoned 'pirate' lyrics, there's some brutal high-end eq'ing on one of the tracks that made my ears bleed. There are a few more things, but I'd have to listen again and I don't wish to as it just kinda frustrates me.
It was great at the time, I've scrutinized it, and I don't like it as much now.

Other points.
I'm glad Brian did it as it probably freed him of some deep-rooted demons. The clips of them starting rehearsals at Brian's house with him completely withdrawn, pale, sweating are incredible. You can see him cringing at the thought of having to relive a terribly painful time in his life. He ultimately faced and conquered them. Incredible.
I like some of the transitions that Brian & Van Dyke came up with as well as Darian's assemblage of Wonderful/Child/Song For Children.
I also find it ironic that Darian is against bootlegs considering that he learned what he knows about the original SMiLE... from bootlegs.
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« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2011, 04:02:11 AM »

I do love BWPS, but i don't find myself listening to it as much as I used to, even on vinyl. My favourite part is still that second movement, which flows so well together you could have sworn thats what Brian planned in 66... But it might get relegated to a curio if i get my hands on TSS.
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« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2011, 08:01:46 AM »

I have to question using the phrase "pro-tooled to death" as a critique of BWPS/Smile. Since this is the accepted method of recording 99% of what you hear on radio, movies, and television today, and since analog tape is still in a niche market but slowly coming back only in certain genres of music, what other method of recording should have been used on Smile?

If Smile was an over-use of ProTools technology, than what music made in the last 10 years on ProTools or any similar digital recording program would be an example of a good use of ProTools? Is anyone questioning someone like Kanye or Lady Gaga for overusing ProTools when that's literally all they use to record their music?
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« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2011, 08:19:40 AM »

There are aspects of the backing vocals on some tracks that I dislike.  I don't know whose voice it is that annoys me, but I wish he'd stood further away from the mic.  Not a big fan of the "You're under arrest!" either.

Aside from minor quibbles like those, I love BWPS.
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« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2011, 09:33:04 AM »

I have to question using the phrase "pro-tooled to death" as a critique of BWPS/Smile. Since this is the accepted method of recording 99% of what you hear on radio, movies, and television today, and since analog tape is still in a niche market but slowly coming back only in certain genres of music, what other method of recording should have been used on Smile?

If Smile was an over-use of ProTools technology, than what music made in the last 10 years on ProTools or any similar digital recording program would be an example of a good use of ProTools? Is anyone questioning someone like Kanye or Lady Gaga for overusing ProTools when that's literally all they use to record their music?

I guess you're right. I myself don't pay any attention to whether and where PT is in effect on BWPS. I didn't notice it in the first listening sessions, and I don't bother. So I simply don't hear it at all. But that's me in general: not analyzing things to death.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:57:46 AM by The Heartical Don » Logged

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