gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
658607 Posts in 26375 Topics by 3742 Members - Latest Member: Soulful Old Man River June 04, 2020, 03:28:17 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Opinions on BWPS  (Read 10859 times)
D409
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 359



View Profile
« on: March 31, 2011, 11:40:42 AM »

Amongst all this excitement (very much shared by myself) at the imminent release of the Smile Box Set, I got my copy of BWPS out a couple of days ago and gave it another listen. I'm just curious to know what everyone makes of it in light of the last 7 years. Is it an abomination (as seems to have come across in some postings here now that the BB's recordings are being compiled), or a brilliant piece of work ? Has the opinion of it been, like much of the BB's history, subject to revisionism, especially as myself and many others considered BWPS to be the last word on Smile ?
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 12:00:32 PM »

I never considered it to be the last word on Smile, and I don't think anyone outside of Brian's very innermost circle did either. Darian certainly didn't.

Looking back now, I still think it's an astonishing piece of work, and a more astonishing live performance, and never an abomination. Sure, there were holes to be picked, but given Brian's preceding studio offering...  Wink

BWPS is a modern reimagining of the original material... and now, we're getting that original material. I'd call that having your cake, eating it and going back for more.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
The Heartical Don
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 12:05:07 PM »

Amongst all this excitement (very much shared by myself) at the imminent release of the Smile Box Set, I got my copy of BWPS out a couple of days ago and gave it another listen. I'm just curious to know what everyone makes of it in light of the last 7 years. Is it an abomination (as seems to have come across in some postings here now that the BB's recordings are being compiled), or a brilliant piece of work ? Has the opinion of it been, like much of the BB's history, subject to revisionism, especially as myself and many others considered BWPS to be the last word on Smile ?

I did certainly not change, or 'adjust' my opinion on BWPS. It is a standalone victory, one man's masterpiece, and it will remain that way for me. The review of it that I particularly like is that of Robert Christgau, who assessed it against the current cultural and economical backdrop in the U.S. (the West), and found it a tremendous and poignant reminder of a spirit that seems (temporarily? forever?) lost to us.

And let us be aware of the fact that the Sessions most probably won't come up with what the 1967 LP could/should/was intended to have been. It is incomplete, there is no final verdict, and most likely we'll be blessed with a lot, but also be confronted with the fact that there's missing a lot.
Logged

80% Of Success Is Showing Up
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8977


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 12:16:13 PM »

I hope no one seriously considers it an "abomination"; if they do, I might suggest they're either very stubborn or fond of winding people up for the sake of an argument.

For me, I think in retrospect one of the most amazing parts of BWPS was how a group of musicians was able to perform that music live. The musicianship on that tour was superb, and the fact that they actually broke down one of the original "walls" facing Smile in 1967 - the ability to play the music live - was very inspiring. And to top it off, that band of musicians on stage looked like they were having fun, and that meant a lot more to me than if they had been looking studiously at charts or their shoes for the performance.

It was an awesome time. I love the studio album, but actually experiencing it live was the rush for me. That was never supposed to happen with that music.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
onkster
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 853


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 12:26:55 PM »

It was amazing, in no way an abomination.

It avoids all the "fanboy" compilation pitfalls (thank Brian there's no "Speeches" or "George"), and makes for a smooth, flowing work of art.

Is is the ultimate "SMiLE"? Is anything? Who cares...it's there to be enjoyed, and I enjoyed the hell out of (twice live in LA).

If you hate it, you can always go back to your boots and the upcoming box set and twiddle til your heart's content.

I have never understood this whole "BWPS is horrible" nonsense.
Logged
A Million Units In Jan!
Guest
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 12:28:54 PM »

I enjoyed it much more in concert than on CD. Maybe it was just seeing with my own eyes Brian actually sing this stuff that he had shunned for years. At one point during 'Surf's Up' I had tears in my eyes. It was pretty powerful.
Logged
The Heartical Don
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 12:37:11 PM »

I hope no one seriously considers it an "abomination"; if they do, I might suggest they're either very stubborn or fond of winding people up for the sake of an argument.

For me, I think in retrospect one of the most amazing parts of BWPS was how a group of musicians was able to perform that music live. The musicianship on that tour was superb, and the fact that they actually broke down one of the original "walls" facing Smile in 1967 - the ability to play the music live - was very inspiring. And to top it off, that band of musicians on stage looked like they were having fun, and that meant a lot more to me than if they had been looking studiously at charts or their shoes for the performance.

It was an awesome time. I love the studio album, but actually experiencing it live was the rush for me. That was never supposed to happen with that music.

Great call, applause!
Logged

80% Of Success Is Showing Up
lance
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1018


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 12:48:20 PM »

I love it to bits. A big, big part of why I am fan.
Logged
lance
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1018


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 12:49:48 PM »

I think the third movement doesn't flow as well as it should, that reflects the unfinished quality of the thing, but it's still great. Prefer Holidays as an instrumental.
Logged
TdHabib
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1150



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 12:50:49 PM »

Abominination? Honestly, if you don't care for it that's one thing. What really blew my mind about BWPS, aside from the fact that Brian sang really well on the studio version, was that all of the pieces went together, everything clicked and that's something that unfortunately no other Smile recordings can quite capture to the full extent. It all made sense, Brian was writing endless variations on a theme and he knew what he was doing. The studio recordings from 1966 are, IMHO, better constructed and better sung than the 2004 disc, that's a given. However, they still remain fragments and incomplete. The Smile Sessions set coming this year will be mindblowing to say the least, I have no doubt; but I will always view the 2004 release as it's playmate if you will. They complement each other nicely and I have a sentimental attachment to both. Deep breath.
Logged

I like the Beatles a bit more than the Boys of Beach, I think Brian's band is the tops---really amazing. And finally, I'm liberal. That's it.
The Heartical Don
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 12:51:17 PM »

I love it to bits. A big, big part of why I am fan.

Yup. There are days when I wish that BWPS was the very first thing I ever heard of the BBs/BW oeuvre. And that, with this in mind, I could have worked my way backwards into all of the rest (and now, of course, forward to the Sessions dinner-for-gourmands).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 12:52:12 PM by The Heartical Don » Logged

80% Of Success Is Showing Up
drbeachboy
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5214



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 12:57:35 PM »

The 2nd Movement on BWPS is a thing of beauty. Those 4 songs just flow together so well. It is a very moving piece of music.
Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Austin
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 218


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 01:36:47 PM »

This was the first exposure I had to Smile, and the first BB-related album I bought and seriously listened to after Pet Sounds. I thought it was strange, moving, and fun -- conceptually what I expected, but not at all in the execution. I liked it fine the first time, but by the third or fourth listen I was totally in love with it. And I remember noting at the time that a) the backing vocals sounded just as good as the Beach Boys, and Brian sounded excellent; b) the new-old Good Vibrations lyrics fit really well; and c) the instrumental tracks easily topped the originals (after I had done some reading and heard them).

As it goes, I've since reversed my opinions, but not to an extreme. Nowadays I prefer the officially-released BB versions when I'm just listening to certain songs individually, or in a playlist. But BWPS does it for me when I want to hear a version of the album in full. I still haven't heard a compilation or sequence that didn't sound incomplete or inferior to the 2004 sequence (which I'm sure runs contrary to the opinion of many here, but I guess that's what makes the debate fun).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 01:39:08 PM by Austin » Logged
Mahalo
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159

..Stand back, Speak normally


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 02:08:30 PM »

A friend of mine just caught the 1st half hour of BD on Showtime today...he was amazed. I tried telling him that BWPS is good, but the original is Gold...lots of new fans will be turned on to the BB's because of BWPS for a long time to come...

Oh, a little secret, come close.... (sshhh...get the vinyl version of BWPS, it is so much better. Don't tell anybody...)
Logged

Jeff
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 545



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 02:17:23 PM »

It’s definitely a triumph, and I’d listen to it a lot if I didn’t have the original sessions.  But to me it lacks the edginess, and certainly the beautiful vocals of the earlier recordings.

Having said that, I think the last minute of On a Holiday is truly magical.  That’s the part where Brian sings “long long ago, long ago,” followed by slowly ascending vocals that gradually become “whispering winds.”  That clip alone is worth the price of the CD, and seems to channel their 1966-67 work.
Logged
buddhahat
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2631


Hi, my name's Doug. Would you like to dance?


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2011, 02:29:13 PM »

I was fortunate enough to see the 2nd RFH show and I have to say, during Song For Children and Child I had what can only be described as a musical epiphany. There's that quote in the BD doc at the end where one of the audience members describes how BW has this ability to show you your own soul with his music. It's a funny quote but this is exactly how I felt hearing Child for the 1st time. Needless to say I was totally hooked on smile from that day onwards. When BWPS came out I must have played it about 10 times a day every day for months. My girlfriend wanted to kill me!

7 years down the line I think it's endured well. I agree with those that find the 3rd movement not quite up to the standard of the 1st two but there's still some great moments in that part too. It's astonishing how unified and natural movements 1 and 2 sound.

I want to listen to it now, but I took Noname's challenge and have banned myself from Smile until the sessions are released!

Wow this news of the smile sessions being released is just incredible. I can't get over it.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 02:30:55 PM by buddhahat » Logged

Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes ......
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2011, 02:38:22 PM »

Yes, the entire second movement is just so powerful - the first night, by the end of "Song for Children", I was a wreck.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
D409
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 359



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 02:41:25 PM »

It's reassuring to note from the above posts that BWPS is well-loved, I thought it was wonderful, especially the way that some missing pieces from the great Smile jigsaw puzzle fitted together into a coherent running order. I saw the concert from the front row in Portsmouth (1st in the queue for tickets, 2 feet from Brian !) and have a boot of the same show, that evening must rank among  the top 5 live experiences I've seen in any style of music !

Not meaning to stir up controversy, just that some of the posts I've read over the last few weeks have given the impression that BWPS doesn't really seem to matter anymore now that the "real thing" is seeing the official light of day. Thanks very much to everyone for the reassurance that BWPS is a relevant chapter in the story and is a valuable companion album to the forthcoming release.
Logged
BillA
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 176


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2011, 02:54:20 PM »

In terms of the work itself this is as close to SMiLE as we will ever get.  Any speculation on SMiLE 1967 would have been is just that.

I am astounded by BWPS every time I hear it.  The flow is as good as it gets.  The sum is so much greater than its parts that even though the Beach Boy performances in 1966-67 recordings are better than the 2004 work I get more out of listening to the suites instead indvidual songs.

I would love to see a symphony and its chorus try to tackle SMiLE.

Logged

In 1974 Mike Love's concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a comeback that rocked the music world.
Sam_BFC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 925


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 02:58:54 PM »

I love BWPS and it is really the main reason that I am here on this board today...when I first got it and listened to it my knowledge of the legend of Smile was very limited.

Since learning more about the whole thing (mainly on this board), I have come to form the opinion that it was a slight shame they didn't use real harpsichords for the final version lol.
Logged

"..be cautious, don't get your hopes up, look over your shoulder because heartbreak and darkness are always ready to pounce"

petsoundsnola
Jason
Guest
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 03:07:47 PM »

BWPS the PERFORMANCE is impeccable. BWPS the album and subsequent "final statement" on Smile? HELL no. Read my post history for explanations.
Logged
onkster
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 853


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 03:11:00 PM »

I have teeny tiny misgivings about BWPS, but so what...it's fantastic. Considering how things could have gone way, way wrong, or how short things could have fallen (remember the original plan of just playing the songs in some kinda order live?), we got the jackpot. Gold either way.

And at Disney Concert Hall, Brian's vocals were PERFECT. No lie. No bum notes. And it sounded good, and joyful. Could not ask for more. Strong, strong stuff.

So they vinyl is that good, huh? Is anybody here friends with the good (and retired) Dr. Ebbetts? Because I'd love to hear it someday...
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 03:25:17 PM »

All this 'final statement' blah blah blah stuff is nonsense.  The album is what Brian recorded over the period of what, two weeks?  It represents what it is.  If you play *THAT* album, and enjoy it, then that's all that matters. 

You could probably track down 50 other performances of almost any song on the album... and now the boxset is coming out with the stuff originally recorded...

Personally, I think it's a great album, and I like listening to it.  It's not the final statement, or any of that, it's just a great album that stands on it's own even without the backstory.  Play it for somebody that's never heard it, Heroes and Villians alone will blow their mind.  No explanation necessary. 
Logged
Jeff
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 545



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2011, 03:25:41 PM »

In terms of the work itself this is as close to SMiLE as we will ever get.  Any speculation on SMiLE 1967 would have been is just that.

LOL.  Then why are we here, and why do we care about the upcoming box?  I guess the real Good Vibrations is from 2003, not 1966, right?  And that fade to the "alternate" Heroes, that's not really Smile, because it wasn't on the BWPS version?

The Brian Wilson version is fine, but it's not the Beach Boys, it's a re-record, and it uses lyrics and concepts that were new in 2003.  It is NOT "as close to SMiLE as we will ever get."

And I like speculation.
Logged
armona
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 77


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 03:25:59 PM »

I heard BWPS prior to hearing any Beach Boys Smile material, so everything on BWPS was entirely new to me. The album absolutely floored me in terms of being a unique entity. I'd never heard anything remotely like it, outside of Sgt. Pepper. Just sat in the car and listened to it spellbound.

Since then, I've come to appreciate and favor the original material, but it's never lessened my appreciation for BWPS. Without it, I seriously doubt we'd be hearing the original Smile material as planned, because BWPS made Brian face and (mostly) conquer his demons from that troubled period.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 03:30:28 PM by Tune X » Logged
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.553 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!