"By Killing smile, He saved himself"

[Cam Mott]

Good point.

[Mike's Beard]

Good Vibrations sold by the truckload, but it was such a groundbreaking great song that it caught the ear of many people who wouldn't usually buy a BB record. The slightly disappointing chart placements of the records that came just before it and afterwards would suggest that the band's solid fan base had shrunk somewhat. There were less people who would automatically purchase whatever the band put out. Also they failed to quickly capitalise on the career momentum GV had given them. The timeframe between the GV and Heroes and Villians releases was a lifetime in the pop music world back then.

[jonjameshall]

Yeah, I think the doubts, etc. about the songs and what to do here and there, etc. were all symptoms of the mental place he was in at the time.  Without the mental illness, he probably would have pulled it off. 

But perhaps without the mental ilness he wouldnt have been "there" in the first place?

[guitarfool2002]

Murry had been fired by The Beach Boys, but he and Brian continued to be partners at Sea of Tunes until he (Murry) sold it in 1969.  Sea of Tunes owned the copyright to more or less every original song Brian Wilson released until 1969.   I don't know if Gaines' precise details are accurate, but the story is plausible.  Writing songs with Brian Wilson in the 1960s meant working for Sea of Tunes, not The Beach Boys.  Sea of Tunes would have been the natural entity to compensate VDP for writing songs with Brian.

Brian's collaborators could have worked for Brian's own company though...

The interesting part of this story is something called "New Executive Music", which was a publishing company Brian had formed in 1964. Look close at some of the song credits and you'll see this company name listed on Brian's later works, although apparently his arrangements of songs like Sloop John B are credited to New Executive Music as well.

The point could be made that Brian could have signed Van Dyke or any of his other collaborators to an agreement with New Executive Music *unless* Brian was under some sort of exclusive contract with Sea Of Tunes...actually, does anyone know the details of this?

One on hand Brian owned his own publishing company - if Murry was being such a pain in the ass why didn't Brian just sign someone like Van Dyke to his own company and tell Murry to stay out of it? Again, unless he was under a non-competition clause or something he could have!

[juggler]

Murry had been fired by The Beach Boys, but he and Brian continued to be partners at Sea of Tunes until he (Murry) sold it in 1969.  Sea of Tunes owned the copyright to more or less every original song Brian Wilson released until 1969.   I don't know if Gaines' precise details are accurate, but the story is plausible.  Writing songs with Brian Wilson in the 1960s meant working for Sea of Tunes, not The Beach Boys.  Sea of Tunes would have been the natural entity to compensate VDP for writing songs with Brian.

Brian's collaborators could have worked for Brian's own company though...

The interesting part of this story is something called "New Executive Music", which was a publishing company Brian had formed in 1964. Look close at some of the song credits and you'll see this company name listed on Brian's later works, although apparently his arrangements of songs like Sloop John B are credited to New Executive Music as well.

The point could be made that Brian could have signed Van Dyke or any of his other collaborators to an agreement with New Executive Music *unless* Brian was under some sort of exclusive contract with Sea Of Tunes...actually, does anyone know the details of this?

One on hand Brian owned his own publishing company - if Murry was being such a pain in the ass why didn't Brian just sign someone like Van Dyke to his own company and tell Murry to stay out of it? Again, unless he was under a non-competition clause or something he could have!

Interesting questions.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any '60s Beach Boys song other than Sloop John B (arrangement) credited to New Executive Music.  Anyone?

The liner notes of the Pet Projects cd describe New Executive as a subsidiary of Sea of Tunes, so perhaps Murry essentially controlled that too?  I don't know.

Initially, New Executive seems to have been the home of Brian's non-Beach Boys songs (e.g., "He's a Doll," "Guess I'm Dumb," etc.).  Of course, Brian was still occasionally publishing under the New Executive banner as late as the '90s (e.g., on the Imagination album).   Now everything is Bri-Mel.

In any case, we know that the Smile-era tracks released in the '60s and credited to VDP  (Heroes & Villains, Vegetables, She's Goin Bald and Cabinessence) were listed as Sea of Tunes, rather than New Executive.

[guitarfool2002]

Choose:
A. No one knows
B. No one cares

 

Clearly the company was formed in 1964 to give Brian an outlet for his original songs, and to make a bit more money from publishing. The news report of this was printed in May 1964 to be exact, so does that line up at all with when Murry was "fired" as manager? Whether or not that had anything to do with this company being set up, my main question still remains why Brian couldn't have just bypassed Murry and all the Sea Of Tunes B.S. and had someone like Van Dyke sign on to New Executive.

I'm guessing there was a contract existing somewhere that said anything Brian wrote that was intended to be for the Beach Boys had to go through Sea Of Tunes, although Sloop John B. breaks that a bit, though it was a cover song.

That fact that New Executive was used for Imagination and Brian's collaborations on that album is very interesting too - why not Bri-Mel at that point in time?

Hopefully someone can shed some light, it would be interesting to know why Brian stuck with Sea Of Tunes when he owned his own publishing company since 1964...

[guitarfool2002]

Just too a few minutes and looked at BMI's listings...what a confusing thing to wade into...

Most of the 60's output is now under "Irving Music". Sloop John B and Guess I'm Dumb, for two of the more notable examples, are New Executive Music, although Guess I'm Dumb has split credits because Russ Titelman had his own publisher.

"Brother Publishing" has a lot of the 70's output.

New Executive is listed for Good Timin', which I thought was interesting since it's a Brian-Carl collaboration.

Most of the "new" music from BWPS is of course listed under BRIMEL, although most of Imagination is New Executive.

The legal title for Sherri She Needs Me is "Terri She Needs Me". Hmmm.

There is no rhyme or reason to these credits - it's so random it seemed to be however the paperwork was drawn up for each song. Interesting to look at but beyond that who knows.

New Executive Music, the how and why of the credits given, is a mystery.

[Jonas]

What if Brian is the messiah and needed to kill himself and save SMiLE? Perhaps we'd be living in peace and harmony.

[Roger Ryan]

What if Brian is the messiah and needed to kill himself and save SMiLE? Perhaps we'd be living in peace and harmony.

He needed Mike to betray him...and the guy just didn't have the balls!

[Fun Is In]

What if Brian is the messiah and needed to kill himself and save SMiLE? Perhaps we'd be living in peace and harmony.

Brother Julius was giving him some major clues.

[Ron]

Yeah, I think the doubts, etc. about the songs and what to do here and there, etc. were all symptoms of the mental place he was in at the time.  Without the mental illness, he probably would have pulled it off. 

But perhaps without the mental ilness he wouldnt have been "there" in the first place?

Like I mentioned, I think his talent is probably related to his mental illness.  So yeah he may not have ever been as great as he is without the illness.  The proverbial double edged sword, so to speak. 

[Ron]

Just too a few minutes and looked at BMI's listings...what a confusing thing to wade into...

Most of the 60's output is now under "Irving Music". Sloop John B and Guess I'm Dumb, for two of the more notable examples, are New Executive Music, although Guess I'm Dumb has split credits because Russ Titelman had his own publisher.

"Brother Publishing" has a lot of the 70's output.

New Executive is listed for Good Timin', which I thought was interesting since it's a Brian-Carl collaboration.

Most of the "new" music from BWPS is of course listed under BRIMEL, although most of Imagination is New Executive.

The legal title for Sherri She Needs Me is "Terri She Needs Me". Hmmm.

There is no rhyme or reason to these credits - it's so random it seemed to be however the paperwork was drawn up for each song. Interesting to look at but beyond that who knows.

New Executive Music, the how and why of the credits given, is a mystery.

I have absolutely no clue and maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but maybe there were different family/friends running each company, and out of favors he would trade around who he published the songs with.  Whattya think?

[BJL]

Like I mentioned, I think his talent is probably related to his mental illness.  So yeah he may not have ever been as great as he is without the illness.  The proverbial double edged sword, so to speak. 

I used to think this, but the more I learn about Brian, the less I think this is true.  For one thing, he seemed to work best when he was happiest (and he says as much in interviews), and what really spurned him to creative heights was not the insecurity or pain of mental illness, but the more or less normal competitive spirit that motives, you know, baseball players and politicians and whatever.  He wanted to win, to prove himself, and he had the talent to do so in spectacular fashion.  Also, musical genius and mental illness don't have to go hand in hand.  Particularly in classical music, its clear that while you do have a handful of tortured geniuses, Bach and Mozart et. al. were not crazy, they were just insanely talented.  The thought of what a healthy Brian Wilson could have done in his 30s, 40s, and 50s is just, to me, haunting.  And the idea that his mental illness and his talent were linked seems more like something we want to be true than something that is true.  Obviously a very subjective subject, but those are my thoughts. 

[Ron]

Yeah, it's really hard to say, isn't it?  I think that you could claim though that Brian certainly was driven to over achieve.  He reached nearly unhuman excellence in his singing and his gift for harmony.  I honestly don't think that's overstating it, He did vocal things I've never heard anybody do and I feel the harmonies he arranged for the band are the best ever recorded.  I don't think dispair or depression drove him to that, but mentally ill people often excel at one area of their life that they focus everything on. 

But who knows, I guess you can't paint everybody who's supernaturally talented as mentally handicapped.  Muhammad Ali was a great athlete but I don't think he's mentally challenged.  Dr. King was a great orator but had no mental deficiences.

Man my spelling is horrible tonight.