How to get lost SMiLE material BaCK?

[juggler]

You know, it's kind of interesting that the Billboard pieces from a week or so did NOT include a plea to "collectors" from Linett/Boyd/Capitol.

On the other hand, in 1995, when Capitol was talking about doing a 3-cd set called The Smile Era, Mark Linett DID actually make the sort of plea that you guys are talking about...

"The other big thing is we're hoping to look around and see if, now, with this project in hand, if we can't find some of this material that seems to have slipped out of the vaults over the years... Anybody out there who has anything to contribute. I'd certainly love to hear from them, anonymously or otherwise."
- Mark Linett, in Billboard, Feb. 4, 1995, p. 127.

The 1995 article, by the way, has quite a few interesting comments.  At that time, Linett mentions having "somewhere about 350, 400 minutes" (i.e., 6 or 7 hours) of Smile material not including Good Vibrations material.

Now, of course, he's talking about having 30 hours of Smile sessions, not including GV, so it's possible that they've found quite a bit of material over the last 16 years.

See Billboard, 2/4/95, courtesy of Google Books...
Page 10
http://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&ots=uDQ5Dd2oks&dq=%22beach%20boys%20flash%20smile%22&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 127
http://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&ots=uDQ5Dd2oks&dq=%22beach%20boys%20flash%20smile%22&pg=PA127#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Cam Mott]

To me it seems like they welcome help, why not us? If we could come up with some focused ideas we could pitch them, maybe they wouldn't seem so helpful? Who knows.

There would be logistics and issues that would have to be worked out before anything happened I suppose whether that was complicated or simple. Maybe I'm just pissin' into the wind?

[Runaways]

didn't someone here say that brian's camp has been reaching out for smile tapes since 04?  I can't imagine anybody would say no to brian.

[Dove Nested Towers]

This may be the time to mention that I was in touch with "Desmond Jones" many years ago, and referred Alan Boyd to him at the time. I believe an offer was made and turned down (or something like that), and besides, his claims of having unknown material were probably limited to stuff that has since seen the light of day or his personal mixes.

[guitarfool2002]

This may be the time to mention that I was in touch with "Desmond Jones" many years ago, and referred Alan Boyd to him at the time. I believe an offer was made and turned down (or something like that), and besides, his claims of having unknown material were probably limited to stuff that has since seen the light of day or his personal mixes.

Just to remind for the discussion - his big coup was supposedly a tape of "Do A Lot" with toothbrushing sound effects.

[Dove Nested Towers]

This may be the time to mention that I was in touch with "Desmond Jones" many years ago, and referred Alan Boyd to him at the time. I believe an offer was made and turned down (or something like that), and besides, his claims of having unknown material were probably limited to stuff that has since seen the light of day or his personal mixes.

Just to remind for the discussion - his big coup was supposedly a tape of "Do A Lot" with toothbrushing sound effects.

He also played a Cool Cool Water, with chant (not the Da Da section that surfaced later) with water sound effects added, probably his own mix, can't remember, over the phone. He may have claimed it was original. Even if it was an original mix, couldn't have been from Smile of course, strictly speaking, since the 1st CCW was recorded a little later. Can't remember the exact structure of the version after all these years.

[adamghost]

OK, I'm going to regret posting this, but:  I saw Alan Boyd last night and I asked him specifically what new stuff they had found so far for the SMiLE sessions.  His first answer back to me was, "well, what have you heard?"  Which was a fair question given the avalanche of bootlegs that have gotten out there.  I'm not going to relay the contents of a private conversation, and he of course didn't talk too much about details, but I don't think he'd be too bothered if I relayed that they have found some new stuff.  Of what was told to me, one thing in particular that he said they had just discovered raised an eyebrow and made me go "whoa, really?"

My take on it, based on the minimal information I was told, was that there will be some cool unheard material, but people should also keep their hopes in check, because some of the "holy grail" material just isn't there to be found.  Also keep in mind that Alan and Mark don't have the final say on what gets released.  But you know those guys will do the best they can, and we should all thank them for their efforts.

[Jay]

How about an appeal on Dancing With The Stars or Two and a Half Men or their equivalent in countries outside the US?

I say get Charlie Sheen involved immediately and have him mention it on his webcasts. 

I assume that your comment was tongue in cheek, but I think something "off the wall" like that just might work. Just hear me out on this for a minute:

Somebody like Charlie Sheen learns about SMiLE and hears it and totally goes nuts over it. He then happens to mention it in an interview/blog/tweet. Since he's in the media 24/7, somebody just might get curios enough to snoop around. Somebody remembers hearing about an obscure family tale about a distant family member having an old dusty and  dirty tape with "Cabinessence" or some weird sh*t on it. Somebody tracks down the tape and sends it along to the right people.

The moral of this story is, NEVER underestimate the ability of people and media coming together to surprise the hell out of us, even in the most dire circumstances.

[Dove Nested Towers]

OK, I'm going to regret posting this, but:  I saw Alan Boyd last night and I asked him specifically what new stuff they had found so far for the SMiLE sessions.  His first answer back to me was, "well, what have you heard?"  Which was a fair question given the avalanche of bootlegs that have gotten out there.  I'm not going to relay the contents of a private conversation, and he of course didn't talk too much about details, but I don't think he'd be too bothered if I relayed that they have found some new stuff.  Of what was told to me, one thing in particular that he said they had just discovered raised an eyebrow and made me go "whoa, really?"

My take on it, based on the minimal information I was told, was that there will be some cool unheard material, but people should also keep their hopes in check, because some of the "holy grail" material just isn't there to be found.  Also keep in mind that Alan and Mark don't have the final say on what gets released.  But you know those guys will do the best they can, and we should all thank them for their efforts.

No regrets, Adam! Very discreet, and thanks for sharing.

[juggler]

OK, I'm going to regret posting this, but:  I saw Alan Boyd last night and I asked him specifically what new stuff they had found so far for the SMiLE sessions.  His first answer back to me was, "well, what have you heard?"  Which was a fair question given the avalanche of bootlegs that have gotten out there.  I'm not going to relay the contents of a private conversation, and he of course didn't talk too much about details, but I don't think he'd be too bothered if I relayed that they have found some new stuff.  Of what was told to me, one thing in particular that he said they had just discovered raised an eyebrow and made me go "whoa, really?"

Can't help but like the sound of that!

Totally understand, though, your need to safeguard the details of a private conversation.

And, yes, before our imaginations run wild, we do need to keep our expectations in check.  No matter what is released, some Smile "holy grails" will undoubtedly remain lost.

Nonetheless, awesome news that at least one thing has been found that made a hardcore fan go "whoa, really?"

[adamghost]

He really didn't tell me much, not that he was unforthcoming but just in terms of specifics -- and of course he has to be circumspect about what he says to me and others while the project is ongoing, but I just saw people getting a little carried away with their wish lists and I felt like I should say something.

Alan is one of the true unsung heroes in Beach Boy world and he's paid a real price for it.  It's kind of a no-win situation that he and Mark are in, with fan expectations and also being beholden to the various interests that have to approve a release.  I just want everybody to know they're genuinely doing their best and we should be thankful for what we get and for their efforts.

[Jeff]

He really didn't tell me much, not that he was unforthcoming but just in terms of specifics -- and of course he has to be circumspect about what he says to me and others while the project is ongoing, but I just saw people getting a little carried away with their wish lists and I felt like I should say something.

Alan is one of the true unsung heroes in Beach Boy world and he's paid a real price for it.  It's kind of a no-win situation that he and Mark are in, with fan expectations and also being beholden to the various interests that have to approve a release.  I just want everybody to know they're genuinely doing their best and we should be thankful for what we get and for their efforts.

Thanks for posting.  Without revealing what was said, what would your speculation be about our chances of hearing unbooted H&V material - particularly the early "barroom brawl" version?  Not asking whether you were told this one way or another, but just what you are guessing at this point.

[mistermono]

Thanks for that info adamghost - encouraging stuff!

I understand what you say about tempering expectations for "holy grail" items turning up, but based on your conversation (especially the "whoa" thing) would you say there might be one or two "revelations" or major finds? Or is the "whoa" thing something that's interesting but not necessarily a big find that will fill in a piece of the puzzle?

[buddhahat]

Thanks for sharing Adamghost and much appreciated. Great to hear there is new stuff.

I'm going to keep my hopes in check and assume that 'no smile holy grails' is going to rule out the possibility of an alternate heroes edit or surf's up part 2. It's great to hear that they have found new stuff though - fantastic news and let's hope it makes the cut.

And yes, of course, much gratitude to Mark and Alan. A thankless task, but I'm sure what they deliver will be outstanding. Very exciting times!

[Jeff]

Thanks for sharing Adamghost and much appreciated. Great to hear there is new stuff.

I'm going to keep my hopes in check and assume that 'no smile holy grails' is going to rule out the possibility of an alternate heroes edit or surf's up part 2. It's great to hear that they have found new stuff though - fantastic news and let's hope it makes the cut.

And yes, of course, much gratitude to Mark and Alan. A thankless task, but I'm sure what they deliver will be outstanding. Very exciting times!

C'mon buddha, that's not what he said.  We don't want to misquote him.

He actually said "some of the 'holy grail' material just isn't there to be found."

That doesn't mean there will be holy grail material, but it doesn't mean there won't be either.

[adamghost]

I really don't want to get Alan in trouble by saying any more...we were just shooting the merda, and I don't want to create the impression that he was out there spilling details or anything, or that I know that much.  He wasn't and I don't.  It was a casual conversation.  Just my general impression was, yes, cool new stuff, but at the same time I would keep expectations in check.   Speaking personally now, I feel that if it's available, Alan and Mark will certainly do their best to get it out there, and after that it's in the laps of the gods (e.g. Capitol and the band/managers and whoever else has to sign off on it).

[buddhahat]

Thanks for sharing Adamghost and much appreciated. Great to hear there is new stuff.

I'm going to keep my hopes in check and assume that 'no smile holy grails' is going to rule out the possibility of an alternate heroes edit or surf's up part 2. It's great to hear that they have found new stuff though - fantastic news and let's hope it makes the cut.

And yes, of course, much gratitude to Mark and Alan. A thankless task, but I'm sure what they deliver will be outstanding. Very exciting times!

C'mon buddha, that's not what he said.  We don't want to misquote him.

He actually said "some of the 'holy grail' material just isn't there to be found."

That doesn't mean there will be holy grail material, but it doesn't mean there won't be either.

Reverse psychology!! I was hoping Adamghost would jump in to clarify that he didn't say "no holy grail material' and that actually the 6 minute Heroes was still in the offing, but to no avail! (Ok, not really, I just misread his post).

Still, from what Adamghost's kindly (and discreetly) shared, I'm thinking "keep expectations in check" is the most important information here.

[juggler]

Still, from what Adamghost's kindly (and cautiously) shared, I'm thinking "keep expectations in check" is the most important information here.

Call me an optimist, but I'm thinking the most important information here is "whoa, really?"

[Catbirdman]

I really don't want to get Alan in trouble by saying any more...we were just shooting the merda, and I don't want to create the impression that he was out there spilling details or anything, or that I know that much.  He wasn't and I don't.  It was a casual conversation.  Just my general impression was, yes, cool new stuff, but at the same time I would keep expectations in check.   Speaking personally now, I feel that if it's available, Alan and Mark will certainly do their best to get it out there, and after that it's in the laps of the gods (e.g. Capitol and the band/managers and whoever else has to sign off on it).

Thanks man for sharing this with us. You did a fine job of respecting confidentiality while giving us a tantalizing glimpse into what's happening.

Personally, I am preparing myself for this set by assuming that NONE of the "holy grails" will turn up - i.e. the January 23 Surf's Up, Child vocals, Shape vocals, alternate Heroes mixes/edits, etc. Instead, I am focusing on the slam dunks - pristine-quality versions of Child, Holidays, and the like. My anticipation is through the roof just for those alone. In the back of my mind I have an odd sense of optimism, but I'm holding it in check.

That said, one nagging fear remains, and you alluded to it above... it's the "laps of the gods." My biggest fear with this whole business is that Brian will veto pieces we've all been dying to hear for years, or even worse, things will get ultra-complicated and they'll end up pulling the plug on the release altogether. I was reading that article from back in 1995 when "The Smile Era" was slated for release, and was reminded that we've been here before, and look what happened...

Of course the main difference then was that they didn't have the support of the band (especially Brian), whereas now, they do. Or so we understand...

But I worry...

I'm just voicing these fears aloud in the hope that you all will talk me down. Tell me to relax. Convince me my hope isn't misplaced.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Call me an optimist, but I'm thinking the most important information here is "whoa, really?"

Makes two of us

I think we've heard about a good 95% of what still exists (at least I know I have)...it's the other 5% that's the killer.

[adamghost]

I don't have any specific knowledge, but my general sense just from scuttlebutt from various people is Brian hasn't raised any big objections to anything.  But it is the Beach Boys, after all, and based on past history it's not irrational to worry about last minute complications.  I don't know of anything particular brewing.  I do get the sense that everyone involved wants it out.  But the hows and whats...we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

Everyone please keep in mind I'm not any kind of insider (nor do I want to be), I just happen to live in L.A., have some extremely tenuous Beach Boys ties, and have a lot of friends who have friends so stuff just hits me by osmosis.  Take it for what it's worth.

[Cam Mott]

Sooooooo....is that all we got on the spread-the-news-thing? Well, it probably was that great an idea anyway.

[Chris Brown]

Thanks a million for sharing Adam!  I pretty much echo everyone else's sentiments, in that I'm just excited for good quality versions of the stuff we've heard.  Hearing a few new tidbits is just icing on the already incredible cake. 

I can't imagine being in Alan and Mark's shoes, with all of the super-high expectations out there and having to work within the tangled web that is the Beach Boys.  I do share Catbirdman's concerns to a degree (and given past history, how can you not?), but I'm hoping that age has mellowed the remaining members a little bit, and they realize that it's better to get this stuff released sooner rather than later.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Just my own personal opinion, based on what (admittedly extremely little) I know about this...I think age, the passing of time, and the preference for it to not be released posthumously* is a big part of it.


*= No, nobody I know of is sick or anything. Just getting on up there.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Great to hear that Brian seems cooperative and unopposed to anything in particular being included. Let's hope the other power brokers all rule similarly. This is one project where everything AND the kitchen sink should definitely be included, at least as far as all separate extant musical fragments and pieces, no matter how short, are concerned. Redundant session stuff is expendable (in general, with some exceptions depending on various factors).

Mark mentioned in his interview that they are keeping the release date open-ended in hopes of procuring additional material right up 'til the 11th hour. Hope that approach is bearing fruit, or soon will!