SMiLE release thoughts from a returnee and some questions for the scholars

[rab2591]

Sgt. Pepper clocks in right at 40 mins i believe.

it's silly for anyone to insist that SMiLE would have been under 40 mins.

and it was entirely possible for an album to go 25 mins or so per side.

we're only talking a few extra minutes of music here people...


I have no problem with the 3 Movements. It's perfectly logical.
I think if you flip Movements 2 and 3 on BWPS, you are very close to what SMiLE's original tracklist would have been.

I really just hope they don't close the sequence with Good Vibrations, as that seems to be a completely 2004 decision.

I like Good Vibrations as the first song on SMiLE, it's a killer opener and you get it out of the way for the real mind-blowing stuff.
Prayer sounds great on the heels of GV, imho

If Brian were thinking of this "rock-opera" suite stuff during Pet Sounds we'd have a 'life suite', a 'love suite', and an 'exotica/carribean-trip suite' - But Brian and the record companies didn't think this way at that time. The tracklisting on Pet Sounds goes fast song, slow song, fast song, slow song for the most part....with the hit single starting up side two and closing side one.

I still think that the songs on that handwritten note were to be the only songs on SMiLE - only few tracks didn't have lead vocals on that list (and some of those probably were recorded, but have been lost in time). Abandoned songs like 'Holidays' and 'Look' (they would be the equivalent to 'Trombone Dixie' had SMiLE come out) were only stepping stones to his main goal as a songwriter on SMiLE.

Had BWPS never come out none of us would be thinking of a 3 suite set of songs - Brian never mentioned this type of tracklisting in any interviews in 66/67. From what I gather, SMiLE was meant to be a jigsaw puzzle of sorts - nothing too organized, but still a cohesive work - just like Pet Sounds.

[Cam Mott]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

[Mahalo]

...I have this CRAZY idea that the Powers That Be are much further along in putting this together than we are understanding.
All this talk as to sequencing and all that makes for great fun in anticipation of this most cherished music but can be too much...Everyday until this gets released is going to be a trip...

Personally, I hope that the H&V Cantina version has the Swedish Frog chant layered underneath the Cantina break....sounds amazing, and fits nicely...

[18thofMay]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

18th of may was the last session for Smile

[Jeff]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

18th of may was the last session for Smile

How do you know?  I think there are good arguments that the last session for Smile was April 14 or even March 2.

[18thofMay]

A wild guess... Argue away!!Show me what you got!

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs67.html

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I don't think that ILTSDD was a SMiLE track proper, anymore than Tones was. What's the proof that it was a SMiLE track?

[bgas]

I don't think that ILTSDD was a SMiLE track proper, anymore than Tones was. What's the proof that it was a SMiLE track?

It's on AGD's Timeline that way, so that makes it so.

[Cam Mott]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

18th of may was the last session for Smile

Just change your moniker to "ProbablySomeTimeinMarch".

[18thofMay]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

18th of may was the last session for Smile

Just change your moniker to "ProbablySomeTimeinMarch".

May
18 - Smile session: Love To Say Da Da [Gold Star]
19 - Smile session: Love To Say Da Da [Gold Star - cancelled] [7]

[desmondo]

I think this is the paradox that upturns the whole "no Cabinessence lead vocals" argument. There's no end point with Smile so those Cabinessence vocals are still legit imo...

So... the Smiley Smile sessions were really for Smile, as were those for Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20... you get my drift ?

Brian stopped working on Smile on May 18th 1967, in truth probably somewhat earlier in his own mind. Wild Honey was not Smile.

I bet it was earlier too. Didn't Taylor announce it in the May 5 iss? That was a Friday and at one point earlier Taylor's feature had been titled something like "Hollywood Tuesday" I think I remember, so if Tuesday was his deadline he knew on or before Tuesday May 2nd. His previous deadline would have been April 25 and he was still explaining about the album cover and tracks of the SMiLE release so presumably he found out that week sometime between April 25 and May 2.

My theory is that Brian knew in March that he was going to scrap SMiLE, but so far it's a theory.

18th of may was the last session for Smile

Just change your moniker to "ProbablySomeTimeinMarch".

If he knew in March why the recording sessions for Smile after that date?? - In fact two months after

[18thofMay]

And anything Andrew says I trust 99.99% of the time.. I have better ears, he has better connections!!

[pixletwin]

Things in life tend to be gradual rather than cut and dry. A person who gets divorced usually knows it's coming long before they announce it and they may even take measures to try and save it even if they believe it is doomed. I think SMiLE can be seen like that.

[Jeff]

And anything Andrew says I trust 99.99% of the time.. I have better ears, he has better connections!!

OK, but apart from that, how do you know?  How do you reconcile (a) the early May press release announcing that Smile had been scrapped and (b) the fact that the only May recording sessions were for DaDa, which (except for the somewhat different "All Day" sessions) had not been recorded for Smile?

[bgas]

Things in life tend to be gradual rather than cut and dry. A person who gets divorced usually knows it's coming long before they announce it and they may even take measures to try and save it even if they believe it is doomed. I think SMiLE can be seen like that.

So Brian knew he was going to get a divorce, but he kept recording Smile because he thought that might save the marriage?

[18thofMay]

Things in life tend to be gradual rather than cut and dry. A person who gets divorced usually knows it's coming long before they announce it and they may even take measures to try and save it even if they believe it is doomed. I think SMiLE can be seen like that.

I agree!! Sometimes it can be worth it!!

[pixletwin]

Things in life tend to be gradual rather than cut and dry. A person who gets divorced usually knows it's coming long before they announce it and they may even take measures to try and save it even if they believe it is doomed. I think SMiLE can be seen like that.

So Brian knew he was going to get a divorce, but he kept recording Smile because he thought that might save the marriage?

LOL Something like that. But only as long as Marilyn doesn't mistake all those fan mail packages of Vega-tables for LSD. That might blow the whole thing!  

[bossaroo]

I think if you flip Movements 2 and 3 on BWPS, you are very close to what SMiLE's original tracklist would have been.

Given that no such thing ever existed, that's a truly audacious statement. Care to amplify ?

While there most certainly wouldn't have been "movements" on a 1967 SMiLE, I'm just saying if you flipped movements 2 and 3 on BWPS and then dropped the idea of dividing the music into movements, you would have a tracklist very close to what SMiLE would have been in 1967. IMHO.



do you like worms? here's another can of them:

has anyone considered that Da Da might be the Air section? what about the version with all the bird whistles?

[18thofMay]

And anything Andrew says I trust 99.99% of the time.. I have better ears, he has better connections!!

OK, but apart from that, how do you know?  How do you reconcile (a) the early May press release announcing that Smile had been scrapped and (b) the fact that the only May recording sessions were for DaDa, which (except for the somewhat different "All Day" sessions) had not been recorded for Smile?

Mr Taylor was always a little premature with most things. And he is not Brian! Nor is he Capitol!

[Jeff]

And anything Andrew says I trust 99.99% of the time.. I have better ears, he has better connections!!

OK, but apart from that, how do you know?  How do you reconcile (a) the early May press release announcing that Smile had been scrapped and (b) the fact that the only May recording sessions were for DaDa, which (except for the somewhat different "All Day" sessions) had not been recorded for Smile?

Mr Taylor was always a little premature with most things. And he is not Brian! Nor is he Capitol!

What?!?  He was the press agent, and was supposed to promote the album.  Why would he conceivably jump the gun with an announcement like that?

[Cam Mott]

Why would ILTSDD be recorded for SMiLE if SMiLE was already cancelled?

[18thofMay]

There is only one person that can cancel SMiLE!! And the press have never got it wrong before!! Derek felt he built part of the "genius" Brian myth. He could see the project unraveling..

[Jeff]

Why would ILTSDD be recorded for SMiLE if SMiLE was already cancelled?

Exactly

[Dunderhead]

I seriously doubt Brian's publicist canceled the project without anyone's approval....
unless it was some type of misunderstanding, but even then, it just doesn't seem like something that would happen.

While there most certainly wouldn't have been "movements" on a 1967 SMiLE, I'm just saying if you flipped movements 2 and 3 on BWPS and then dropped the idea of dividing the music into movements, you would have a tracklist very close to what SMiLE would have been in 1967. IMHO.



do you like worms? here's another can of them:

has anyone considered that Da Da might be the Air section? what about the version with all the bird whistles?

I really wish we had a better idea of what went on during the planning of BWPS. Brian must have had some inclination as to what Da Da was. Where it would have gone, whether it was an instrumental, whether it was air, etc etc. So when they played it for Brian in 2004, what did he say "oh yeah that's water!" or did he just sort of shrug and go along with other people's suggestions.

The whistle version of Da Da (those are some weird sounding whistles...) was from the "second day" of sessions. That's May 17th. Is the version that is on the GV boxset the version from day 1 or day 3? if it's from day 1, what did Brian record on May 18th?

[Dunderhead]

Also it should be noted that the press release does not say SMiLE was canceled. It actually states very clearly that it was to be "shelved" and makes a distinction between the two.