SMiLE release thoughts from a returnee and some questions for the scholars

[desmondo]

I have always been a SMiLE freak (got the boots, read the books etc) but BWPS, the emotional concerts and the closure of the original SMILE SHOP put an end to my postings although I remain a lurker.

Like many, the recent announcement has got my juices flowing again and comments on the various threads here have reminded me what I have been missing for the last five years. The flame is very much alive. My main regret is that I have probably missed newly discovered recordings but hey........

Whilst I love BWPS to bits, I am really excited about the forthcoming release in many way. BWPS has its own charm - IIGS is a great example of this - and hats off must go to Brian's band for recreating what I consider one of the greatest achievements in popular music. It stands on its own as a piece of art.

I also think its as close to the original SMiLE as we can get bearing in mind that many vocal tracks were not completed back in the day. For me its the finished SMiLE - just about. My only slightly negative comments are its length - at 47 mins its too long for two sides of vinyl, not sure about the interludes, as good as they are, and whilst the first two suites are perfect, the third one does sound a bit forced. I don't have any problems with the running order - its makes sense to me for what it was.

The new release opens up a whole host of stuff for me.

Whilst Brian's band deserve a lot of kudos - without them I don't believe Brian would be where he is today - they would admit that they aren't the Wrecking Crew. For me the original backing tracks have a power that BWPS couldn't match. Even something as minimal as YAMS boasts something that doesn't come across on BWPS in the same way. Ditto H&V, CE, and DYLW.

Likewise the vocals are different in feel and the BBs do have that special blend that no one else has. Hearing the tracks and vocals in pristine mono or stereo ( don't care which) will IMHO further enhance Brian's status.

From what I read, it seems as though we will get something very similar to the PS Box Set which I can tell you is still being examined by music students all over the world. This would mean a 'SMiLE album' in the intended running order, the intended versions in their latest state of completion with or without vocals plus a whole load of session stuff similar to the way the PS boxed set panned out but obviously in an 'unfinished' state on some of the tracks.

It should be welcomed as what it is - a snapshot of SMiLE when it was abandoned. It and BWPS should stand alongside each other as the final pieces in the puzzle. And I hope we as fans will accept it as the final word on this mystery. For me it will be solved.

And now to some questions/comments for those who are interested.

Surf's Up part two - do we know it was all done as per BWPS back in 66 or is that just a guess?
Acetates - will there not be tape versions of these edits in the vaults? - maybe DP's collections isn't so rare. The acetates must have come from something
How involved is Brian in putting this together? Are Darian/Paul involved as they did extensive research/work for BWPS
Any ideas about what new stuff may surface on the new release - any wants
I hope they don't fly in stuff from other version a la SU and  Brian solo version
What is the right version of H&V - I love the BWPS version
Please use Frank Holmes a/w
Is Dominic's order in LLVS now defunct?
Sadly whatever it comes out as - I am sure there will be a lots of us who still won't be satisfied.

There we go

Cheers

Richard

[Andrew G. Doe]

Surf's Up part two - do we know it was all done as per BWPS back in 66 or is that just a guess?

No hard proof it ever existed in the first place. The assumption there was a Pt. 2 rests on a session being labelled Pt. 1.

Acetates - will there not be tape versions of these edits in the vaults? - maybe DP's collections isn't so rare. The acetates must have come from something

From the participants, except (currently) from Durrie Parks

How involved is Brian in putting this together?

He's OK'd the release, he'll get to OK the final product. In between those two points, I'm doubting he'll have much direct input.

Are Darian/Paul involved as they did extensive research/work for BWPS

Why should they be involved at all, especially Paul - there's no new arranging to be done. Very odd question.

Any ideas about what new stuff may surface on the new release - any wants

Apparently previously unbooted material has been discovered.

I hope they don't fly in stuff from other version a la SU and  Brian solo version

Me too. That would be so wrong.

What is the right version of H&V - I love the BWPS version

No-one knows. Maybe no-one ever knew.

Please use Frank Holmes a/w

Hell, yes !

Is Dominic's order in LLVS now defunct?

I think that fell out of favor some years ago.

[desmondo]

Thanks Andrew

Re the Darian/Paul question - if I was Mark and Alan I would at least ask Darian stuff I may be unsure of because he had a big MUSICAL input into BWPS - not suggesting more than that - DS must have had a lot of conversations with Brian about it and probably the most important question for Mark will be WHY NOT? presumably Darian can help with that - agreed on Paul tho

Re Acetates - I may have misunderstood your reply but my point was that the acetates must have been made from a mix done on tape. If those tapes are in the vault then Durrie's acetates are irrelevant as is Bruce's

LLVS - interested in the order falling out of order - was this because of BWPS or something else and to what extent to you and others accept BWPS as the running order (see my original post)

And one other thing - what is your view on the 12 song back cover - is that what we are going to get - \

Sorry for what may be dim questions but it has been six years - lol

Richard

[guitarfool2002]

Since Darian has been involved with and researching Smile for decades, not to mention the fact he was smack-dab in the middle of the creation of the 2004 project alongside the two creators, I'd think he'd absolutely be one to get involved somehow. I'm assuming his musical role with BWPS might have overshadowed his work years before with the likes of Rev. Bob Hanes and others who helped spread the word to a larger audience before the Web scene took over.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If, as reported, BWPS forms the template for The Smile Sessions CD1, then Darian's work was completed in 2003.  If those reports aren't accurate, what else could he contribute ?

[guitarfool2002]

Again, since he was researching and writing about Smile well before BWPS, and has an intimate knowledge of it, I'd be interested in a few opinions and perhaps some perspective from someone like Darian who got interested in Smile as a young man before Smile was "mainstream" and eventually became directly involved in getting some of that music to the general public. It's a pretty amazing story.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Again, since he was researching and writing about Smile well before BWPS, and has an intimate knowledge of it, I'd be interested in a few opinions and perhaps some perspective from someone like Darian who got interested in Smile as a young man before Smile was "mainstream" and eventually became directly involved in getting some of that music to the general public. It's a pretty amazing story.

I think the main stumbling block could well be sectional politics.

[desmondo]

Darian continues to work with Brian and I get the impression that he is trusted musically by the big man. I would have thought therefore his involvement continues as a representative of the Brian camp particularly on a subject as sensitive as this.

DS had long musical conversations with BW about Smile when he helped put BWPS together and whilst it is the template, I would be surprised if Disc One turns out exactly to be BWPS minus the missing parts that were never recorded.

Of course this is conjecture on my part but I think DS can provide a great deal of thinking into BW's musical view of SMiLE

Andrew - yes of course sectional politics will undoubtedly play a part but the fact that everyone involved has signed off on this, including VDP I presume, then perhaps some of those walls have been lowered in the interest of getting the best from the project.

After all it is in everyone's interest to make this as good as it possibly can be - it will be the BB's last hurrah

[Andrew G. Doe]

the fact that everyone involved has signed off on this, including VDP I presume, then perhaps some of those walls have been lowered in the interest of getting the best from the project.

I would really love to believe this would be the case, more than you could imagine. it's just that, given past history, I can't see it.

[Mahalo]

Whilst Brian's band deserve a lot of kudos - without them I don't believe Brian would be where he is today - they would admit that they aren't the Wrecking Crew. For me the original backing tracks have a power that BWPS couldn't match. Even something as minimal as YAMS boasts something that doesn't come across on BWPS in the same way. Ditto H&V, CE, and DYLW.

I say it was not so much the musicians, but Brian's EAR that gave the music it's magic....he could get people, almost anybody to play with heart not just notes...on Bicycle Rider on BWPS there lacks the punch that is on the original tapes...Brian's band could've played that back in the day if they were around because Brian would've heard it that way..

Surf's Up part two - do we know it was all done as per BWPS back in 66 or is that just a guess?

...This is the Holy Grail....IMO

I would like to hear Linnett fly in Brian's demo vox at some point on the disc...I know he would do a better job than what I haven't heard...and H&V will be a bit different than what we are used to , I HOPE!!

[Jonas]

I thought Scott Bennett is BW's main squeeze now...

Anyway, not to thrilled of BWPS being the template of anything...where's that hand written track list Carl turned in???

[Andrew G. Doe]

Anyway, not to thrilled of BWPS being the template of anything...where's that hand written track list Carl turned in???

Over on the Hoffman board, just seen a post stating that Marilyn has said the writing on said list is Diane's, which is of course entirely logical.

So... Alan can sound like Brian and vice versa... Carl & Diane's handwriting is nearly identical...  jeez, why wasn't I a Beatles fan ?

[bgas]

Anyway, not to thrilled of BWPS being the template of anything...where's that hand written track list Carl turned in???

Over on the Hoffman board, just seen a post stating that Marilyn has said the writing on said list is Diane's, which is of course entirely logical.

So... Alan can sound like Brian and vice versa... Carl & Diane's handwriting is nearly identical...  jeez, why wasn't I a Beatles fan ?

Which means: Brian gave her the titles. "Brian never saw the list" is just more hogwash.

[bgas]

Darian continues to work with Brian and I get the impression that he is trusted musically by the big man. I would have thought therefore his involvement continues as a representative of the Brian camp particularly on a subject as sensitive as this.

DS had long musical conversations with BW about Smile when he helped put BWPS together and whilst it is the template, I would be surprised if Disc One turns out exactly to be BWPS minus the missing parts that were never recorded.

Of course this is conjecture on my part but I think DS can provide a great deal of thinking into BW's musical view of SMiLE

Andrew - yes of course sectional politics will undoubtedly play a part but the fact that everyone involved has signed off on this, including VDP I presume, then perhaps some of those walls have been lowered in the interest of getting the best from the project.

After all it is in everyone's interest to make this as good as it possibly can be - it will be the BB's last hurrah

All good points in Darian's behalf, but what can he add that Alan and Mark, who are every bit as knowledgable and more so, especially given their time in the vaults, can not?
 If I was Mark/ Alan / Capitol,  and wanted additional information, I'd want it straight from Brian; not filtered thru Darian's perspective of what he thinks Brian would add

[drbeachboy]

I guess the only way that the track listing will be correct for you guys is if Brian can use Mr Peabody's Way Back Machine and comes back with a hand written list from 1966. Personally, I don't care what order it is in, because I have no control over any of it, as do any of you. Like the old saying "You will take what is given to you, and like it." I am sure that using BWPS as the template is because Brian now considers it his running order. Just the fact that 3 sides of the LP will be Smile proper should tell you that Brian even considers the Beach Boys version a three movement program.

[Jonas]

Over on the Hoffman board, just seen a post stating that Marilyn has said the writing on said list is Diane's, which is of course entirely logical.

Oops, funny that I remember this being talked about here (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8551.msg143208.html#msg143208), here (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7057.msg113546.html#msg113546), and here (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5859.msg94573.html#msg94573). Incidentally a certain someone popped up with the same answer in all of those discussions.

[bgas]

I guess the only way that the track listing will be correct for you guys is if Brian can use Mr Peabody's Way Back Machine and comes back with a hand written list from 1966. Personally, I don't care what order it is in, because I have no control over any of it, as do any of you. Like the old saying "You will take what is given to you, and like it." I am sure that using BWPS as the template is because Brian now considers it his running order. Just the fact that 3 sides of the LP will be Smile proper should tell you that Brian even considers the Beach Boys version a three movement program.

So if I get this right, Smile in it's original unreleased form might have turned out to be ( If Brian Had finished it) the FIRST Great Double LP  set in Rock history;
Three sides featuring the three movements of Smile, and the fourth....  Maybe a side similar to Marcel Marceau's Greatest Hits, to present Brian's Humor?

[drbeachboy]

No bgas, the Brian of today is sequencing the Smile of yesterday. Just for arguement's sake, in 1966, side 4 might have been the single versions of GV and H&V, You're Welcome, maybe Carl or Dennis' tunes. Though, like most say, it was likely to be one LP. My point is that in 2004 and now in 2011 this is how Brian thinks of Smile; sequenced as a 3 movement piece of music. This is what he wants and it will be what we get, like it or not.

[Cam Mott]

I hope they don't use the BWPS as a template either. This is a historical thing and BWPS ain't historical. Well....not historical in the sens....you know what I mean.

Unless something else from 1967 has turned up that says something different, I hope they use the good ol' tracklist. That was Brian approved in 1966/67 and is the ticket imo. All fades intact too with silence between tracks, unless you know, something else from 1966/67 that over-rides that has been turned up too. All just my opinion as always.

[drbeachboy]

Brian is past, present and hopefully, future. It will be as Brian wants, not how we want it. Why is it that we all know better than Brian? This is his and The Boys' album. Smile is getting released primarily the way Brian wants it. His sequencing, his movements, his mono. Smile is Brian's vision to do with it how he pleases.

[Cam Mott]

Brian is past, present and hopefully, future. It will be as Brian wants, not how we want it. Why is it that we all know better than Brian? This is his and The Boys' album. Smile is getting released primarily the way Brian wants it. His sequencing, his movements, his mono. Smile is Brian's vision to do with it how he pleases.

Right and if he does decide to do it BWPS style, I hope he calls me first so I can tell what he really intended. hmph.

[drbeachboy]

I hope they don't use the BWPS as a template either. This is a historical thing and BWPS ain't historical. Well....not historical in the sens....you know what I mean.

Unless something else from 1967 has turned up that says something different, I hope they use the good ol' tracklist. That was Brian approved in 1966/67 and is the ticket imo. All fades intact too with silence between tracks, unless you know, something else from 1966/67 that over-rides that has been turned up too. All just my opinion as always.

I hope you read Linett's interview, because if you haven't you're in for a huge letdown. Did Brian approve a tracklist? For all we know he had Diane jot down the most likely candidates at that point in time to appease the suits at Capitol. Unless there is some Wayback machine, you have people living in the 21st Century making decisions on a 45 year old scrapped album.

[Cam Mott]

Who told you about the Wayback Machine?

[drbeachboy]

Sherman, of course!

[onkster]

I like Cam's response!