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Author Topic: Domenic Priore on The SMiLE Sessions  (Read 20864 times)
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2011, 08:56:27 AM »

It could be an opener *and* a closer, in fact in theory it could work quite well and I think I have heard other albums in the years since 1967 use a piece of music to open and fade out an album or a section of an album, though my memory isn't letting me remember exact titles for reference.

For music theory buffs the ending major chord of "Our Prayer" is a composer's device several hundred years old called a "Picardy third", where a piece that starts in a minor key ends on a major chord rather than the expected tonic minor. It's a beautiful sound, and along with a major 7th chord one of my favorite sounds in music.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2011, 09:15:10 AM »

I never though Our Prayers key made it sound sad. To me it makes it sound immense.
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« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2011, 09:32:26 AM »

It could be an opener *and* a closer, in fact in theory it could work quite well and I think I have heard other albums in the years since 1967 use a piece of music to open and fade out an album or a section of an album, though my memory isn't letting me remember exact titles for reference.

For music theory buffs the ending major chord of "Our Prayer" is a composer's device several hundred years old called a "Picardy third", where a piece that starts in a minor key ends on a major chord rather than the expected tonic minor. It's a beautiful sound, and along with a major 7th chord one of my favorite sounds in music.

Carpenters Horizon for one. Some dude called Wilson did it last year too.
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« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2011, 09:53:05 AM »

Vosse doesn't imply that Prayer was the closer - remember, 20/20 was already out and Vosse had heard it as he references it during the Fusion interview.  He says a choral a capella thing.  Which certainly would describe Prayer but then why not say it was Prayer?  So it had to be something else.  I think the excised/edited section of Prayer (edited from a 66 mix, it's on boots) would certainly be a candidate.

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.
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« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2011, 10:00:54 AM »

Sad? No. Spiritual? Yes. I played AlternateBrianWilsonSMiLE for some friends a few days ago and they were hooked just by hearing 'Our Prayer' - One made the comment: "This is the Beach Boys? This is so much different than the other stuff (ie surf music)." Then again, you could start that album off with any SMiLE track and people would probably have the same reaction. Prayer is a fantastic hook into the album.
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »

Immense was a strange choice of word.. Spiritual is a much better adjective...  LOL
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« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2011, 10:44:46 AM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?
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« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2011, 10:53:07 AM »

Immense was a strange choice of word.. Spiritual is a much better adjective...  LOL

Let's combine them to make it immensely spiritual and call it even Grin
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God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2011, 11:34:23 AM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?

I have no idea whether or not Frank was originally paid.  

However, in Billboard's story in 1995 about Capitol planning to release "The Smile Era," we see the following statement:

If original art is obtained, the packaging could include material from the 12-by-12 booklet -- including line drawings by Frank Holmes and photos -- printed for the original "Smile" album and ultimately destroyed.


If Capitol already had the rights to the original art, why in 1995 would they have needed to "obtain" it?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 11:37:34 AM by juggler » Logged
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« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2011, 12:21:47 PM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?

I have no idea whether or not Frank was originally paid.  

However, in Billboard's story in 1995 about Capitol planning to release "The Smile Era," we see the following statement:

If original art is obtained, the packaging could include material from the 12-by-12 booklet -- including line drawings by Frank Holmes and photos -- printed for the original "Smile" album and ultimately destroyed.


If Capitol already had the rights to the original art, why in 1995 would they have needed to "obtain" it?

Because they never paid Frank for it, and he owns it.
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« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2011, 12:42:46 PM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?

I have no idea whether or not Frank was originally paid.  

However, in Billboard's story in 1995 about Capitol planning to release "The Smile Era," we see the following statement:

If original art is obtained, the packaging could include material from the 12-by-12 booklet -- including line drawings by Frank Holmes and photos -- printed for the original "Smile" album and ultimately destroyed.


If Capitol already had the rights to the original art, why in 1995 would they have needed to "obtain" it?

Because they never paid Frank for it, and he owns it.

It was more of a rhetorical question, but, yeah, that's the logical inference.
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« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2011, 12:47:38 PM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?

I have no idea whether or not Frank was originally paid.  

However, in Billboard's story in 1995 about Capitol planning to release "The Smile Era," we see the following statement:

If original art is obtained, the packaging could include material from the 12-by-12 booklet -- including line drawings by Frank Holmes and photos -- printed for the original "Smile" album and ultimately destroyed.


If Capitol already had the rights to the original art, why in 1995 would they have needed to "obtain" it?

Because they never paid Frank for it, and he owns it.

It was more of a rhetorical question, but, yeah, that's the logical inference.

Ahh, but of course!  I'm just not into rhetoric
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« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2011, 07:31:03 PM »

As for Frank being paid - the $500 quote comes from Derek Bill - he's spoken to Frank and met him several times, but he didn't specifically say that quote came from Frank.  And then Mark London put forth the $2000 amount, right here on this board I believe.

And yet, there  are the many citations that he wasn't paid, more from Frank himself.
And if he was paid, how is it that he has been able to claim( and receive) all rights to his artwork, without Capitol asserting their ownership?

I have no idea whether or not Frank was originally paid.  

However, in Billboard's story in 1995 about Capitol planning to release "The Smile Era," we see the following statement:

If original art is obtained, the packaging could include material from the 12-by-12 booklet -- including line drawings by Frank Holmes and photos -- printed for the original "Smile" album and ultimately destroyed.


If Capitol already had the rights to the original art, why in 1995 would they have needed to "obtain" it?

Because they no longer had the artwork in their files.  That's why they would need to obtain the original artwork.
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« Reply #88 on: March 31, 2011, 06:21:00 AM »

I never though Our Prayers key made it sound sad. To me it makes it sound immense.
Immense was a strange choice of word.. Spiritual is a much better adjective...  LOL
To me it sounds spiritual AND immense AND sad. Sad except for the major chord in the end that makes me feel like hope is being given as the answer to the prayer.

It's worth noting that Vosse implies Prayer as a closer, and Siegel mentions Brian playing it last in his private acetate radio show, so I don't think it's a given that Prayer was to open the album.

Well, it's been recorded as an intro, and it's been used as intro on BWPS, so I guess it's THE intro. I don't like it as an intro, but then I'm not Brian Wilson (obviously).

In my own mixes I use You're Welcome as intro. It's in C# just like H&V which follows, so it fits very well.

My old pre-BWPS mixes used to end with Surf's Up -> Prayer -> Good Vibrations. It was kind of nice to find BWPS also ending with GV with even a little Prayer section before it! Smiley Late last year I did a third mix which had Vega-Tables at the end instead. Surf's Up before it ends with the line "A children's song... (and so on)", and then a childlike song follows. And the line "I know that you'll feel better if you send us in a letter..." works especially well if Vega-Tables is the last song!
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« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2011, 10:03:03 AM »

Our prayer as a closer would be pretty terrible I think. 
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« Reply #90 on: March 31, 2011, 10:11:52 AM »

Vosse doesn't imply that Prayer was the closer - remember, 20/20 was already out and Vosse had heard it as he references it during the Fusion interview.  He says a choral a capella thing.  Which certainly would describe Prayer but then why not say it was Prayer?  So it had to be something else.  I think the excised/edited section of Prayer (edited from a 66 mix, it's on boots) would certainly be a candidate.

You know, I wonder if Vosse might have been thinking about "You're Welcome."  It isn't technically a capella, but the instrumental backing isn't prominent.  If you had only heard it a few times, you might misremember it as a choral a capella.  Of course, "You're Welcome" was also already out (as the b side of the H&V 45), but who knows if Vosse was even paying close attention to details like that? 
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