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Author Topic: Mark Linett Billboard Interview About SMiLE  (Read 69310 times)
Dan Lega
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« Reply #250 on: March 16, 2011, 03:49:23 PM »

From the press release....  "Parks also introduced Beat-Pop artist Frank Holmes to create album sleeve art and a booklet interpreting the album’s James Joyce-mode lyrics."   Ah!  This seems very telling to me!  I don't think they would have mentioned Frank Holmes in the press release if they weren't planning on using his pictures for the album and box set.  Hooray, hooray, hooray!!!


Now, on to other things...   I'll know I’ll most likely be pilloried here, but I just want to put it out there that I, like a few others apparently, think they should use the post '67 Cabinessence and Surf's Up vocals for the Side One "near-to-finished” version of the album.  I want all the first time listeners to hear the magnificence of the finished tracks.  I don't want them to sit there and go, "Hmmm, I wonder what that would have sounded like with lyrics?"  Then the '66-'67 unfinished vocal version or instrumental track can be used on one of the other discs.  As for those who say, "But hey, it's called SMiLE Sessions, therefore you can't use anything past those dates," all I can say is, that is what *asterisks* are for!  Just place a little asterisk next to the song title to indicate that parts of the recording are post SMiLE Sessions era.  

My take is that anything which was WRITTEN or PLANNED, not just anything that was recorded, is historically accurate and indispensible.  Me?  I personally would love to have “reconnected telephone line” recorded anew – if it’s not found on a tape or acetate.  And even if this vocal is found – but only in bad sound quality – then I’d still love to hear it newly recorded on the existing backing track.  Seriously, I would.  Now I don’t expect to change any of your well positioned thoughts on the subject, but I have to be honest and say what I would want.  Now granted, if they record any new vocals my hope is that they let Al Jardine sing the lead, and that Mike, Bruce, and Brian are relegated to backing vocals, and that they do their absolute best to make it fit sonically with the rest of the vintage recordings.  Any new recordings should feature only the original members, meaning I would rather not have Darian, Jeff, Christian, or Al’s kids singing on it.  Also, I would rather not have a modern Brian lead vocal.  Only Al’s voice is still in top shape.  That being said, though, I would rather hear “reconnected telephone line” sung by ANYBODY than not to hear it at all.  (Though if it’s just sung by anybody, then it should be relegated to disc 2, or 3 or 4.)  Similarly, I would love to hear a modern Al Jardine lead vocal on “Do You Like Worms” if a vintage vocal can’t be found.  Heck, I wouldn’t mind hearing that on Disc 1 if it was done with enough integrity to the original recordings.  And if more lyrics from that period appear (either from Frank Holmes lyric sheets or elsewhere) I would love to hear them newly recorded, too.  I mean, if they’re not recorded for this project, when will they be?

The one thing I would not advocate for are newly recorded vocals of Van Dyke’s 2004 lyrics.  They are excellent for that project, but I don’t see any need for them on this set.  (Though, once again, if they were done tastefully, with an Al lead etc., etc., I don’t think you’d hear me complain too much -- though I would hope that the tracks would appear as extras, rather than on Disc 1.)

Again, I realize some of you will be dying to roast me over the pits of hell because of these sentiments, but I love what Brian and Van Dyke accomplished with their ’66-’67 SMiLE project, and I want to hear as much of it as I can.  If that means doing some modern recording for things that have been lost, or are in really bad sound condition, then so be it.  Give it all to me!  Don’t leave me wondering!

(And please be assured that I realize there is very little chance of the surviving Beach Boys doing any new recordings for this project.  So those of you wholly against my opinion most likely have nothing to worry about!  Please set your torches accordingly.  I, also, realize that any attempt at new recordings risks pushing the release date further and further away – so far away that it may never come out, especially with Al’s slow pace of recording!  That alone is reason enough for me to be on your side!)  

Love and merci,    Dan Lega

PS – I haven’t read the whole thread, only through page 4.  I hope I’m not repeating something that’s been argued ad infinitum already!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:31:06 PM by Dan Lega » Logged
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« Reply #251 on: March 16, 2011, 04:42:51 PM »

That's interesting... "Cabinessence" as a mixed up pun on "cannabis".  I don't think I've ever heard that before.  And I don't know what to think about it, either.  It seems a bit of a stretch but, still, I'd have to say it's plausible.

Love and merci,   Dan Lega
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:49:59 PM by Dan Lega » Logged
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« Reply #252 on: March 16, 2011, 04:54:39 PM »

That's interesting... "Cabinessence" as a mixed up pun on "cannabis".  I don't think I've ever heard that before.  And I don't know what to think about it, either.  It seems a bit of a stretch but, still, I'd have to say it's plausible.

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

That info actually comes from Frank Holmes...
so It's not too much of a stretch  Smokin

We've actually been talking about Vega-Tables being about drugs. Take a listen to the "Cornucopia Version" that has the lyric "Tripped on a cornucopia/stripped the stalk green, and/I hope ya/like me the most of all/my favorite vega-table"
To me that's classic Van Dyke "tripped on a cornucopia"="I did a lot of drugs", the word "tripped" being a very loaded drug reference that Van Dyke and Brian were both well aware of. The "stripped the stalk green" also conjures the picture of plucking nuggets of weed of the stem.
Not to mention that Brian was engaged in recording a number of sound effects NOT related to vegetables. Sure there were the chomping noises, but he also recorded fits of laughter as well as coughing for use in the song. Activities probably more related to smoking pot than eating vegetables....
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« Reply #253 on: March 16, 2011, 05:01:11 PM »

Did Brian really want letters from people about their favorite vegetables?

Ha ha, this is funny because I actually did write a letter back in 80 or 81.   I was 13, 14 years old and had just heard Vegetables for the first time and thought it was hysterically funny.  I didn't know where to write so I sent it to Brian Wilson c/o Caribou records.    I never heard anything back of course, and have no idea if it ever was recieved (doubt it actually, but who knows.)  
FYI: The vega-table I listed as my favorite in the letter was Broccoli.  
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Dan Lega
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« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2011, 05:17:53 PM »

Ah, just got through the whole thread.  Info on "Cabinessence" = cannabis is from Frank Holmes?  That's great!  Doesn't really fit with the rest of the song lyrics, but that's okay.

I agree with the idea of "Vega-tables" being drugs.  I hadn't thought of the "tripped" and "stripped the stalk green" lines being puns, but I'll agree with the interpretation.  Especially since the "and I ate the wrapper" line has always struck me as something someone would only do when on drugs -- and as something that you would only find funny when on drugs!  (Because if you eat the wrapper when straight, then something is definitely wrong with you -- which is sad, not comical.)

Here's my vote to use the "Cornucopia" version on side 1 of the Beach Boys SMiLE.  (Though I guess the other version is mostly a Smiley Smile version, and so I shouldn't even have to put in a vote for it.)  However, I just remembered how disappointed I was when they didn't use the Cornucopia version in Brian's 2004 version!  (I hope that doesn't happen again.)

Love and merci,   Dan Lega


PS to Mark Linnett -- try pitch correcting "He Gives Speeches" to the same key as "Wonderful" and using it as a insert -- it should work like a charm and sound great compositionally!   Wink
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:35:09 PM by Dan Lega » Logged
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« Reply #255 on: March 16, 2011, 05:29:30 PM »

As for the person who wanted to hear an all instrumental version of "The Elements", try this...

Earth -- "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter"
Air -- "Our Prayer"
Fire -- "Mrs. O'Learys Cow"  (use that composition only -- no "Bag of Tricks", "I'll be around", etc.)
Water -- Water Chant   (again, no "Cool, Cool Water"," Da-Da", etc.)

Each piece is about a minute long -- and while it's not all instrumental (i.e., "Our Prayer", Water Chant"), there are no real lyrics, per se, and in my opinion it's a killer of a suite!.  Okay, yes, it spoils the idea of using "Our Prayer" as the opener of SMiLE, but I think it's worth it!  

(Maybe you can try using "You're Welcome" as the opener instead?)

Love and merci,   Dan Lega
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:37:49 PM by Dan Lega » Logged
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« Reply #256 on: March 16, 2011, 07:55:03 PM »

From the press release....  "Parks also introduced Beat-Pop artist Frank Holmes to create album sleeve art and a booklet interpreting the album’s James Joyce-mode lyrics."   Ah!  This seems very telling to me!  I don't think they would have mentioned Frank Holmes in the press release if they weren't planning on using his pictures for the album and box set.  Hooray, hooray, hooray!!!


Now, on to other things...   I'll know I’ll most likely be pilloried here, but I just want to put it out there that I, like a few others apparently, think they should use the post '67 Cabinessence and Surf's Up vocals for the Side One "near-to-finished” version of the album.  I want all the first time listeners to hear the magnificence of the finished tracks.  I don't want them to sit there and go, "Hmmm, I wonder what that would have sounded like with lyrics?"  Then the '66-'67 unfinished vocal version or instrumental track can be used on one of the other discs.  As for those who say, "But hey, it's called SMiLE Sessions, therefore you can't use anything past those dates," all I can say is, that is what *asterisks* are for!  Just place a little asterisk next to the song title to indicate that parts of the recording are post SMiLE Sessions era.  

My take is that anything which was WRITTEN or PLANNED, not just anything that was recorded, is historically accurate and indispensible.  Me?  I personally would love to have “reconnected telephone line” recorded anew – if it’s not found on a tape or acetate.  And even if this vocal is found – but only in bad sound quality – then I’d still love to hear it newly recorded on the existing backing track.  Seriously, I would.  Now I don’t expect to change any of your well positioned thoughts on the subject, but I have to be honest and say what I would want.  Now granted, if they record any new vocals my hope is that they let Al Jardine sing the lead, and that Mike, Bruce, and Brian are relegated to backing vocals, and that they do their absolute best to make it fit sonically with the rest of the vintage recordings.  Any new recordings should feature only the original members, meaning I would rather not have Darian, Jeff, Christian, or Al’s kids singing on it.  Also, I would rather not have a modern Brian lead vocal.  Only Al’s voice is still in top shape.  That being said, though, I would rather hear “reconnected telephone line” sung by ANYBODY than not to hear it at all.  (Though if it’s just sung by anybody, then it should be relegated to disc 2, or 3 or 4.)  Similarly, I would love to hear a modern Al Jardine lead vocal on “Do You Like Worms” if a vintage vocal can’t be found.  Heck, I wouldn’t mind hearing that on Disc 1 if it was done with enough integrity to the original recordings.  And if more lyrics from that period appear (either from Frank Holmes lyric sheets or elsewhere) I would love to hear them newly recorded, too.  I mean, if they’re not recorded for this project, when will they be?

The one thing I would not advocate for are newly recorded vocals of Van Dyke’s 2004 lyrics.  They are excellent for that project, but I don’t see any need for them on this set.  (Though, once again, if they were done tastefully, with an Al lead etc., etc., I don’t think you’d hear me complain too much -- though I would hope that the tracks would appear as extras, rather than on Disc 1.)

Again, I realize some of you will be dying to roast me over the pits of hell because of these sentiments, but I love what Brian and Van Dyke accomplished with their ’66-’67 SMiLE project, and I want to hear as much of it as I can.  If that means doing some modern recording for things that have been lost, or are in really bad sound condition, then so be it.  Give it all to me!  Don’t leave me wondering!

(And please be assured that I realize there is very little chance of the surviving Beach Boys doing any new recordings for this project.  So those of you wholly against my opinion most likely have nothing to worry about!  Please set your torches accordingly.  I, also, realize that any attempt at new recordings risks pushing the release date further and further away – so far away that it may never come out, especially with Al’s slow pace of recording!  That alone is reason enough for me to be on your side!)  

Love and merci,    Dan Lega

PS – I haven’t read the whole thread, only through page 4.  I hope I’m not repeating something that’s been argued ad infinitum already!

Dan, I agree with you about new vocals and how they should be treated if done...but apparently it would mean the end of civilization as we know it.
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« Reply #257 on: March 17, 2011, 08:14:57 AM »

Civilization could possibly continue if Al sang a lead vocal for Worms.   Barring the discovery of a demo Worms lead, I'd love to see them try it out.  If it stinks, burn the tapes (or digital media).  Lyrically, it's the most important song from SMiLE in terms of laying out the pictorial history of the Americana Suite, however the suite pans out.  There'll still be a remastered backing track for purists.

I'd leave Prayer out of the elements.  It has always been Brian's opener.
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« Reply #258 on: March 17, 2011, 08:31:43 AM »

As for the person who wanted to hear an all instrumental version of "The Elements", try this...

Earth -- "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter"
Air -- "Our Prayer"
Fire -- "Mrs. O'Learys Cow"  (use that composition only -- no "Bag of Tricks", "I'll be around", etc.)
Water -- Water Chant   (again, no "Cool, Cool Water"," Da-Da", etc.)

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

Dammit, you were that close !  Grin
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« Reply #259 on: March 17, 2011, 08:36:42 AM »

Civilization could possibly continue if Al sang a lead vocal for Worms.   Barring the discovery of a demo Worms lead, I'd love to see them try it out.  If it stinks, burn the tapes (or digital media).  Lyrically, it's the most important song from SMiLE in terms of laying out the pictorial history of the Americana Suite, however the suite pans out.  There'll still be a remastered backing track for purists.

I'd leave Prayer out of the elements.  It has always been Brian's opener.

Al stated prior to the 93 box that "that's not Worms". Be interesting to know his reaction to a request to sing a new vocal for it...
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« Reply #260 on: March 17, 2011, 08:40:56 AM »

Info on "Cabinessence" = cannabis is from Frank Holmes?  That's great!  Doesn't really fit with the rest of the song lyrics, but that's okay.

 Smiley It's OK? It doesn't fit with the rest of the song lyrics, nor does it fit into the historical time period where at least a large piece of the song is set, with the "working on the railroad" or the whole "home on the range" section which suggests frontier America. Bring in the modern section, with Dennis playing the "truck drivin' man", and consider this: Most truck drivin' men who would choose a drug would be taking some kind of uppers or speed to stay awake rather than smoking weed which would do the opposite. So even taking the literal meaning of a "truck drivin' man", how does cannabis fit into that interpretation?

I'm just pointing some of this out because some of the interpretations being suggested need to be hammered, chiseled, and sculpted a certain way in order to fit a theory, where a song like Cabinessence has a number of interviews suggesting exactly what the song was about, and we're going to brush those aside?

If Frank Holmes says the song is a code for cannabis, how many times did Frank actually meet with Brian Wilson in 1966? It's my understanding Van Dyke was the go-between who took lyrics to Frank and may have played him acetates of the songs so he could illustrate the lyrics...I'm saying this because it's happened where Michael Vosse or David Anderle who were much closer firsthand witnesses to the Smile project in contact with Brian than Frank Holmes, have made statements on the record in the past, naming specific details, and yet their words or memories can't be trusted or are simply wrong according to some. Yet Frank Holmes supposedly says Cabinessence is about pot and that's the way it is? I'm skeptical.
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« Reply #261 on: March 17, 2011, 09:23:27 AM »

The song may not be about pot, but the title may still jokingly reference pot.   Yes, the song is about the frontier, the railroads and Chinese laborers - but there's (potentially) more to it than that if the listener cares to explore it.  IMO there's "in-jokes" all over Smile.  Other groups were doing the same type of thing.  The Beatles had "turns me on" in She's a Woman, and "tit tit tit" in Girl (just a couple of examples.  Those were little in-jokes that not every listener would pick up on, but they knew some would, and it also amused them to slip such things past the censors.
I also don't think the old west setting was necessarily supposed to be so rigidly literal, though it's fine to see it that way, but there's certainly enough room for lots of wiggle as far as interpretations.
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« Reply #262 on: March 17, 2011, 09:31:11 AM »

yeah i think if anything, it's just a pun in the title.  Van Dyke referred to it as an "american gothic trip".  trip could be drug, but then again that was his lingo. 
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« Reply #263 on: March 17, 2011, 09:58:34 AM »

Saying it's a "trip" was definitely a drug reference but by now the edges have been smoothed out and it's just part of the general language. I use the phrase all the time just to mean if you're on my trip you're seeing things the same way. Or on a trip like an exploration of knowledge or something. No doubt if you know the history where it came from but it's not what I'm referring to when I use that phrase.

It's amazing how drug lingo gets incorporated into everyday language over time.

Off-topic, I wish "corporate speak" of the variety mocked in the Dilbert comic strip and movies like "Office Space" would disappear entirely...if that stuff ever leaks into everyday conversations we're doomed.
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« Reply #264 on: March 17, 2011, 10:49:49 AM »


Off-topic, I wish "corporate speak" of the variety mocked in the Dilbert comic strip and movies like "Office Space" would disappear entirely...if that stuff ever leaks into everyday conversations we're doomed.

Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays!  On Thursday, even!  Go out and drink some green beer to celebrate the day.  If you don', then a Shamrock Shake from McDonalds will substitute nicely.    Cool Guy
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« Reply #265 on: March 17, 2011, 10:55:13 AM »

Just going stream of consciousness here, boy I'll bet Capitol is *pissed* that they still have to pay Frank Holmes for that cover.  If they would have somehow got their paws on it, they could have used it for free.  They're probably very used to either making their own covers or buying the photos, and here this guy figured out how to own the thing all these years and make that money over and over, lol.  Good for him. 
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« Reply #266 on: March 17, 2011, 11:27:28 AM »

but he also recorded fits of laughter as well as coughing for use in the song. Activities probably more related to smoking pot than eating vegetables....


I always thought it was meant like this: vegetables make you healthy - when you're healthy, you fell good - when you fell good, you laugh

Just thrown in and I think those thoughts about "Veggies" as a drug reference in one way or another may be right. In "Beautiful dreamer", talking about the tent, Brian used "Sandwiches" as an alternative to "smoking hash". Maybe it comes from that same idea (anyway it's funny and one of my favorite parts in the documentary). But since this is Brian Wilson, I wouldn't take everything too serious. This is the same guy that later wrote "Solar system". It's just his kind of humour






Quote
FYI: The vega-table I listed as my favorite in the letter was Broccoli.


I just watched some parts of the Smile-DVD yesterday and in one of the bonus-interviews (I believe the one where Van Dyke interviews Brian), Brian mentioned Broccoli as his favorite, too....
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« Reply #267 on: March 17, 2011, 11:32:58 AM »

I honestly believe he was trying to make a song that would convince children to eat their vegetables. 
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« Reply #268 on: March 17, 2011, 11:44:19 AM »


Off-topic, I wish "corporate speak" of the variety mocked in the Dilbert comic strip and movies like "Office Space" would disappear entirely...if that stuff ever leaks into everyday conversations we're doomed.

Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays!  On Thursday, even!  Go out and drink some green beer to celebrate the day.  If you don', then a Shamrock Shake from McDonalds will substitute nicely.    Cool Guy

My sarcasm is sometimes mistaken for genuine anger - I actually haven't worked in an office environment for 10 years!

I like the suggestion: Since everyone is Irish today, I'll substitute a pint of Guinness for the green beer, and try to leave no lines on the glass as I drink it... Smiley While listening to Vega-tables, of course. Cheers!
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« Reply #269 on: March 17, 2011, 11:49:14 AM »

I honestly believe he was trying to make a song that would convince children to eat their vegetables. 

Not only children but adults too! Borrowing from Bill Tobelman, who I hope chimes in, Brian was seeking enlightenment from many sources at that time, and one of those outlets was apparently healthy eating. Along with astrology, psychedelic drugs, exercise, meditation, Subud, Zen philosophy, etc.

If folks want to believe Vega-tables is more about drugs than about eating healthy vegetables, that's all good but that's also just an opinion until proven otherwise. I still enjoy reading the theories and taking them as opinions, it's interesting stuff.
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« Reply #270 on: March 17, 2011, 11:55:23 AM »

I always thought it was meant like this: vegetables make you healthy - when you're healthy, you fell good - when you fell good, you laugh

And they make you cough too? hm...that doesn't sound right.
Now what makes a room full of people cough? hm.....
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« Reply #271 on: March 17, 2011, 12:02:31 PM »

I always thought it was meant like this: vegetables make you healthy - when you're healthy, you fell good - when you fell good, you laugh

And they make you cough too? hm...that doesn't sound right.
Now what makes a room full of people cough? hm.....

Smog! It made an entire city cough, and it made Brian Wilson mad enough to call the cops...  Grin
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« Reply #272 on: March 17, 2011, 12:28:22 PM »

I always thought it was meant like this: vegetables make you healthy - when you're healthy, you fell good - when you fell good, you laugh

And they make you cough too? hm...that doesn't sound right.
Now what makes a room full of people cough? hm.....



I was only talking about the laughter.
Of course you can also choke on vegetables which will make you cough. But as pointed out, I was only talking 'bout that laughter




BTW a little something else:
Some youtube-user posted his Smile-mix (probably based on BWPS, haven't heard the whole thing on youtube yet) which could be a way that will be done for the official project. Here's Surf's Up with Brian's vocal flown in but still using the backgroundvoices from the '71 version : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVycA74kT7I
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« Reply #273 on: March 17, 2011, 12:35:20 PM »

i prefer the end coda to kick off with the "a children's song" line. 
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« Reply #274 on: March 17, 2011, 06:07:34 PM »

Now what makes a room full of people cough? hm.....

They're sick because they didn't eat their vegetables.
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