SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Bicyclerider]

So...I've listened to about half the 5-CD set so far...words just don't do the feelings of the experience itself justice, as most of you know already, but here are a few observations:

 - Many people pointed out that despite Mike's protests, he DID sing the lyrics he didn't understand/like/whatever. But the more I listen, the more I realize his presence is very obviously missing. In fact, back in '66/'67, the only songs that had complete (or at least nearly complete) vocals -- that we know of -- are "Good Vibrations," "Our Prayer," "Wind Chimes," "Heroes And Villains," TOMP/YAMS, "Wonderful," and "Vegetables." Of course, "Good Vibrations" was already in the can and cowritten by Mike and Brian. "Our Prayer" is wordless. "Wind Chimes" is sung by Carl. "Heroes And Villains" is Brian's vocal (and yeah, I know there's a version the set in which Mike sings the lower vocals in the verses, and he sings "and sonny, down snuff, I'm all right by the heroes and"). The different versions we have of "Wonderful" have either Brian or Carl singing. Al sings lead on the formal studio version of "Vegetables." Seems to me that the only VDP lyrics Mike actually sang were on the "Grand Coulee" part of "Cabin Essence" and a few lines of "Heroes And Villains." Is it possible he was slated to sing the lyrics for "Do You Like Worms," maybe part of the "Cabin Essence" verse (I doubt he could have reached the high notes; well, then again, he sang unusually high on "Aren't You Glad") ,"Surf's Up" (except, of course, "columnated ruins domino"), etc., but actually DID refuse? and that's why those vocals were unrecorded? Then again, it seems unusual that when lyrics existed for a lot of these songs that were recorded fairly early during the sessions that Brian never went back and had vocals overdubbed...

Mike was not so foolish as to further jeopardize his position in the group by refusing to sing a lead vocal - he was being replaced as a lyrical collaborator, but he obvioulsy wanted to keep his position as "lead singer" - despite the fact that Brian and Carl seemed to be doing most of the leads now.  The only reported lyric he questioned and apparently refused to sing was "sunny down snuff" in Dec 66 - only to relent six months later and sing it.

[Mahalo]

About a month ago, we talked (again!) about the Truck Drivin' Man section on another thread and I asked when it was originally recorded - either 1966 or if it was later added to Cabinessence in 1968. Nobody could answer at the time. Now we know for sure! I assume you just found out from Linett or Boyd, Andrew. And since it was recorded in 1968, it makes a little sense that it wasn't included in the Smile box. But I still think it shoulda been included anyway! 

Absolutely...there are a bunch of items that are not frm the "Original" sessions that are present. Are Carl's vox on CE even legit then? Besides, Truck Drivin' Man lasts all of about, what, 20 seconds?

[Mikie]

  The only reported lyric he questioned and apparently refused to sing was "sunny down snuff" in Dec 66 - only to relent six months later and sing it.

I thought Mike also questioned Van Dyke about the "Over and over the crow flies" lyrics.

[Mikie]

Absolutely...there are a bunch of items that are not frm the "Original" sessions that are present. Are Carl's vox on CE even legit then? Besides, Truck Drivin' Man lasts all of about, what, 20 seconds?

Exactly. Unless it was going to be on there and Brian nixed it. I doubt it though - I think it might have been an oversight.

Bt the way, it would be interesting to find out what Brian told Linett/Boyd to leave off or change, if anything.

[SMiLE Brian]

I wonder what Brian thought when he heard all the old comedy skits and other weird stuff he recorded.

[Shady]

Those skits are really funny..

Brian's life story could only be better if he suddenly pursued a career as a stand up comic after SMiLE collapsed

[PhilCohen]

I guess that some of you(even the forum bullies) have been waiting for me to weigh in with my impressions of Capitol's official "Smile" product(which I ordered back in August from Amazon.com, during the first hour that they accepted preorders). Usually, Amazon goes to "Shipping Soon" status 1 to 2 day before the release date. This time, Amazon didn't go to "Shipping Soon" status until release date, and some (incorrect) reports on the internet of Amazon not having ordered sufficient quantities, had me worried that I'd be in a lengthy limbo. So, I did an unofficial lossless FLAC download of the 5 CD's, so I could hear the music while waiting for Capitol's product to arrive. Halfway through that 8 hour download(which I completed), the e-mail came through that the products had shipped. While not scheduled to arrive until Nov. 7th, the shipment arrived Nov.4th. The big box set had all CD's, vinyl records and other items in perfect condition. I also received a 2-CD set, which I didn't unseal(more about that shortly), and a separate 2-L.P. set(to get the unique inner sleeves). As for that copy of the 2-L.P. set, there was a huge narrow scuff(that appears like a scratch, but isn't deep) that ran across the entire "side four", but, miraculously, the side actually plays perfectly, so I kept it. As for the 2-CD edition, I didn't unseal it, because by then I knew that a friend in California was going to the autograph event at Fingerprints Records in Long Beach,California, and he bought a 2-CD edition for me with the idea of having it autographed by Brian(that autographed set has. by now, arrived). You can see the autograph event on a video on The Beach Boys' "YouTube" channel. My friend who obtained the autograph is seen in the video waiting in line, wearing a black "Fender" T-shirt, and holding up the 2-CD "Smile Sessions" box which would soon be autographed by Brian.
              I made a CD-R for myself with the two songs exclusive to the 2-CD edition, the "Side Four" from the vinyl & the material from the two 7" singles, producing a 40 minute/ 11-song bonus disc.
              What are my impressions of the official releases? On the positive side, the edits/versions of "Vegetables" & "Wind Chimes" are much better than what we've heard before. "Wind Chimes" has that added instrumental segment that most of us had assumed(when we heard it in BWPS in 2004) to have been a Darian Sahanaja creation. I wonder why Mark Linett had overlooked that segment when assembling the mix heard on "30 Years of Good Vibrations"(perhaps the lack of Brian's involvement back then). The new version of "Vegetables" is much more flowing. The previous version had awkward transitions at the edit points. Perhaps the better editing today was made possible by modern technology(and you'll notice that many edits in the newly released Capitol product are, in fact, very rapid segues, not the abrupt edits that we would have gotten in the old analogue tape splicing days.
             However, It is apparent that some of the material being released vinyl-only(the "Side four" of the 2-L.P. set) is probably being released only on vinyl because the sound quality of that material was not deemed to be good enough for CD release. Some vinyl enthusiasts have noted(on other internet forums), that the "Cabinessence" material being presented on "Side Four" of the vinyl, is audibly distorted....and this is correct. The stereo "You're Welcome" on "Side Four" has audible noises that obviously are not coming from the vinyl itself(note how the hiss and other noises abruptly shut off when the song ends!)
             Criticisms of the CD material? Well, "George Fell into His French Horn"(A.K.A. "Talking Horns") has been edited down to half its original length, though probably to make room on the CD for material deemed more important. Many(including me) are frustrated by not getting(on the sessions discs) mixes of "Cabinessence" are "Barnyard" exactly as Brian left them when "Smile" was abandoned in the 1960's(I.E. with partly completed vocals). Instead, only the backing tracks are presented.
             To be specific, the items that I would have wanted were "Barnyard"(instruments with background vocals) and "Cabinessence" with only the vocal parts recorded in 1966/67(Brian sings "Doing Doing Doing" in the sections that later received the Carl Wilson overdubs, and the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" & "Grand Coulee Dam" sections with only the 1966/67 vocals...before the 1968 overdubs). Granted, bootleggers have these items, but with nothing near full fidelity.
             As for the "Child Child" vocal snippets flown in onto "Look", they don't , in my opinion,really add much.

I know that my next comment will cause the forum bullies to jump on me, but so be it. I'd say that the ideal time for The Beach Boys to have capitulated and released the material officially, would have been back in the 1990's, when it first became apparent that bootlegger "Sea of Tunes" had obtained full fidelity dubs of 90% of The Beach Boys' 1960's session tapes. (I'm not saying this because I spent loads of money on "Sea of Tunes"/"Dumb Angel" label CD's, so don't level that accusation!). Yes, some of you will point out that back then, "Brian Wilson Presents Smile" did not yet exist for use as a template for Smile's running order. True, but the quality of the music remains intact, even in a different running order. Domenic Priore's running order was still deemed credible in the 1990's, and would have likely been used in a 1990's official release. And the computer technology used in the 2011 "The Smile Sessions" didn't exist(or was in an embryonic state) in the 1990's. Then, a 1990's official "Smile" would have had to use the technology available then.

Most of the "Smile Sessions" 5-CD + vinyl megabox(and its smaller 2-CD cousin) is excellent. We now get the answer as to whether "Smile" came any closer to completion than previous bootleg or official releases of the material had suggested. Excepting the new,more fully realised edits of "Vegetables" & "Wind Chimes", the answer basically is "No". We do, however get numerous previously unheard segments in the sessions.

Initial (March 2011) announcements of an official "Smile" release implied that we would get an entire book written by Domenic Priore. Well, we didn't, but of course Priore can update one of his two previous "Smile" books in the future, if he wishes.

Will any of the missing reels someday be found? The answer to that question resides with the bootleggers, though it should be pointed out that Capitol's payment of $50,000 to obtain half of the "Shut Down Vol. 2" multitracks indicates that Capitol was and is willing to pay for missing tapes.

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

[Dunderhead]

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

Overall I was disappointed by the book. As far as liner notes go, it's adequate. But I feel like it was a missed opportunity. Design wise it's quite nice, and I can't help but smile when I flip through it. But the producers notes, for example, were not very informative. Exactly how was the two part version assembled? Mark and Alan have been working for over a decade on compiling this material, and I can't imagine that during that adventure more information wasn't uncovered. Fans have been buzzing about things like the so-called "Durie Parks acetates" for years, it still gets brought up here, without a definite answer ever being proffered. Surely Mark and Alan reached out to everyone with ties to BW during the smile-era, and I wish we would have been given a more detailed look at the process of cataloging everything. I've definitely seen some very good posts here from Alan Boyd that were more tantalizing than anything in the book.
The "recollections" are certainly nice, but are overly generalized. This guys had a chance to be at sessions which the rest of us will never hear, to listen to acetates that are lost forever, but the recollections were a little on the insubstantial side. I feel like the book had too much of that type of thing, too much "he was a genius, but then the album never came out, what a shame", not enough synthesis. Some of the primary source material is much better, the fusion interview, "Goodbye Surfing...". That material would have been very nice to have, and would have given the book an extra edge.
The pictures are all very nice, there were a few conspicuous absences, like Brian's portrait. But again, overall, design wise, the whole thing is very nice, if ultimately unsatisfying.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Durrie's acetates were auditioned: that nothing on the box was sourced from them should say something about what was found to be on them.

[Jason]

I know that my next comment will cause the forum bullies to jump on me, but so be it. I'd say that the ideal time for The Beach Boys to have capitulated and released the material officially, would have been back in the 1990's, when it first became apparent that bootlegger "Sea of Tunes" had obtained full fidelity dubs of 90% of The Beach Boys' 1960's session tapes. (I'm not saying this because I spent loads of money on "Sea of Tunes"/"Dumb Angel" label CD's, so don't level that accusation!).

I'd say that 90% is kind of pushing it to quite an extreme. I would argue it's somewhere around 40%.

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

I didn't know that was even up for debate; it's long been known that it's just his own edit.

[PhilCohen]

I know that my next comment will cause the forum bullies to jump on me, but so be it. I'd say that the ideal time for The Beach Boys to have capitulated and released the material officially, would have been back in the 1990's, when it first became apparent that bootlegger "Sea of Tunes" had obtained full fidelity dubs of 90% of The Beach Boys' 1960's session tapes. (I'm not saying this because I spent loads of money on "Sea of Tunes"/"Dumb Angel" label CD's, so don't level that accusation!).

I'd say that 90% is kind of pushing it to quite an extreme. I would argue it's somewhere around 40%.

Well, the only obvious things that "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to:

The "Stage 2" multitrack for "Do You Wanna Dance" with the overdub which doubled Dennis' vocal(alas, it doesn't have the released guitar solo which was played live during mono mixdown)

The "Stage 2" multitracks(after 3-track to 8-track transfers) for "Summer Days...and Summer Nights"(Capitol DOES have them)

The multitracks for the 8 new songs on the "Little Deuce Coupe" album.

The "Shut Down Vol.2" multitracks(which were still in a private collection)

Half the the Capitol Studios sessions for the "Surfin' Safari" album(The World Pacific session for "Surfin" was direct to mono, & the Western Studios sessions for "Surfin' Safari" & "409" now only exist via the finished mono mixes)

Some of the things that "Sea of Tunes" didn't get access to may not exist anymore.

[Dr. Tim]

Been going deeper into the set over the past few days, really digesting it.   Even though it captivates there's sometihng really creepy about Teeter Totter that makes me reach for my Thorazine.

I am told there's an active TSS discussion page on Facebook, which those of you who do FB can confirm.

[PhilCohen]

I know that my next comment will cause the forum bullies to jump on me, but so be it. I'd say that the ideal time for The Beach Boys to have capitulated and released the material officially, would have been back in the 1990's, when it first became apparent that bootlegger "Sea of Tunes" had obtained full fidelity dubs of 90% of The Beach Boys' 1960's session tapes. (I'm not saying this because I spent loads of money on "Sea of Tunes"/"Dumb Angel" label CD's, so don't level that accusation!).

I'd say that 90% is kind of pushing it to quite an extreme. I would argue it's somewhere around 40%.

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

I didn't know that was even up for debate; it's long been known that it's just his own edit.

Well, if that be the case, I prefer my own "Heroes & Villains Part 2" edit(which follows Domenic Priore's instructions from the 2nd edition of "Look Listen Vibrate Smile") This edit concludes with "My Children Were Raised"

[desmondo]

I know that my next comment will cause the forum bullies to jump on me, but so be it. I'd say that the ideal time for The Beach Boys to have capitulated and released the material officially, would have been back in the 1990's, when it first became apparent that bootlegger "Sea of Tunes" had obtained full fidelity dubs of 90% of The Beach Boys' 1960's session tapes. (I'm not saying this because I spent loads of money on "Sea of Tunes"/"Dumb Angel" label CD's, so don't level that accusation!).

I'd say that 90% is kind of pushing it to quite an extreme. I would argue it's somewhere around 40%.

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

I didn't know that was even up for debate; it's long been known that it's just his own edit.

No the case - in his i/v he said it came from written instructions and tape comment

[The Demon]

"Wind Chimes" has that added instrumental segment that most of us had assumed(when we heard it in BWPS in 2004) to have been a Darian Sahanaja creation. I wonder why Mark Linett had overlooked that segment when assembling the mix heard on "30 Years of Good Vibrations"(perhaps the lack of Brian's involvement back then).

Wasn't that section on the SOT box?  Also, I thought that "Wind Chimes" on 30 Years was supposed to be Brian's mix.  Maybe you can correct me on that.  Personally, I think he'd probably cut sections like that if the LP had been finished in 67, just like the Smiley versions of songs lost sections.

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

Someone around these parts, or the Hoffman board, who interviewed D. Priore recently said that Priore said those were based on Brian's "notes" for a double-sided "Heroes" 45.

[trismegistus]

Well, if that be the case, I prefer my own "Heroes & Villains Part 2" edit(which follows Domenic Priore's instructions from the 2nd edition of "Look Listen Vibrate Smile") This edit concludes with "My Children Were Raised"

Yeah, I had said it before but the only part of the box that I'm really disappointed with is Heroes pt. 2. It's not that the music is bad, but it's just a bunch of unconnected Heroes sections that don't flow together at all. I've been pretty sour on the idea of a part 2 for a while now mainly because I had never heard one that sounded like an actual song, until JMZ's mix I heard last month which was so good as to be reinvigorating.

I'll come up with my own mix for the song one of these days...

[atroxi]

Just sat down with a glass of wine and put on the vinyl...had planned to do this earlier in the week, but once the universe found out TSS had been released, it threw an 18 hour workday at me on Tuesday.

That said...whoa.  Just, whoa.  That sounded amazing.

[Chris Brown]

Absolutely...there are a bunch of items that are not frm the "Original" sessions that are present. Are Carl's vox on CE even legit then? Besides, Truck Drivin' Man lasts all of about, what, 20 seconds?

Exactly. Unless it was going to be on there and Brian nixed it. I doubt it though - I think it might have been an oversight.

Bt the way, it would be interesting to find out what Brian told Linett/Boyd to leave off or change, if anything.

As per AGD, the '68 vocal tapes are missing, and thus there would have been no way to present isolated "Truck Drivin' Man" vocals, which is too bad, because that would have been amazing to hear.

Along those same lines, and thinking about the comments below regarding production notes, I'd love to know what prompted the '68 addition of that particular session.  Did Brian help out more than we've been told, and tell Dennis what to sing in that part?  Was there a demo vocal from '66 that Dennis replicated?  How did that section come to be added?

[PhilCohen]

Whether the decision of what constitutes "Heroes & Villains Part Two" was made in 1967 or 2011, it was approved by Brian Wilson, so now it IS "Heroes & Villains Part Two". If it is a Mark Linett 2011 creation, Brian approved it. If Brian didn't like it, it wouldn't be in the 2-CD set or on the 7" vinyl single in the big box set.

[JohnMill]

Whether the decision of what constitutes "Heroes & Villains Part Two" was made in 1967 or 2011, it was approved by Brian Wilson, so now it IS "Heroes & Villains Part Two". If it is a Mark Linett 2011 creation, Brian approved it. If Brian didn't like it, it wouldn't be in the 2-CD set or on the 7" vinyl single in the big box set.

For all intents and purposes it's actually a 1988 Mark Linett creation.  The only difference is that on this new boxset he lopped off the ending of the 45 and replaced it with FB.  

Which begs the question was it Brian Wilson whom insisted on that edit?    

[PhilCohen]

Whether the decision of what constitutes "Heroes & Villains Part Two" was made in 1967 or 2011, it was approved by Brian Wilson, so now it IS "Heroes & Villains Part Two". If it is a Mark Linett 2011 creation, Brian approved it. If Brian didn't like it, it wouldn't be in the 2-CD set or on the 7" vinyl single in the big box set.

For all intents and purposes it's actually a 1988 Mark Linett creation.  The only difference is that on this new boxset he lopped off the ending of the 45 and replaced it with FB.  

Which begs the question was it Brian Wilson whom insisted on that edit?    

What's FB?

[runnersdialzero]

What's FB?

Facebook.

[Mikie]

Along those same lines, and thinking about the comments below regarding production notes, I'd love to know what prompted the '68 addition of that particular session.  Did Brian help out more than we've been told, and tell Dennis what to sing in that part?  Was there a demo vocal from '66 that Dennis replicated?  How did that section come to be added?

I've always wanted to know all that stuff. For some reason, it really intriques me. I asked those questions and more on another thread about a month ago, and nobody seemed to have answers. At least we know now that the Truck section was added in 1968. I had a feeling that it was added after the Smile sessions but wasn't sure.

[Chris Brown]

Along those same lines, and thinking about the comments below regarding production notes, I'd love to know what prompted the '68 addition of that particular session.  Did Brian help out more than we've been told, and tell Dennis what to sing in that part?  Was there a demo vocal from '66 that Dennis replicated?  How did that section come to be added?

I've always wanted to know all that stuff. For some reason, it really intriques me. I asked those questions and more on another thread about a month ago, and nobody seemed to have answers. At least we know now that the Truck section was added in 1968. I had a feeling that it was added after the Smile sessions but wasn't sure.

I always assumed it was '66 but was told prior to TSS release that it was '68 - unfortunately that fact leads to all these questions that nobody seems to have the answers to.  But they're definitely worthwhile questions, and I'd say the best guy to ask would be Steve Desper, if/when he reappears on his "Honored Guests" thread.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Still unanswered is this question: does Mark Linett's reassembling of "Heroes & Villains Part 2"(heard in the 2-CD set and on a 7" vinyl single) have a factual basis, or is it a product of Mr.Linett's creativity?

Someone around these parts, or the Hoffman board, who interviewed D. Priore recently said that Priore said those were based on Brian's "notes" for a double-sided "Heroes" 45.

The 'notes' are written on the tape box, and are not in any way as detailed as has been assumed or stated.