SMiLE Sessions box set!

[puni puni]

the construction of out-fakes a la Anthology 2

the beatles? what was on anthology 2 that was an outfake?

[seanmurd]

What - TSS leak links?? Do we really need that??

Hasn't TSS ("The Smile Stuff") been leaking for years..??  

Yes it has ,that's why I'm not as excited about the release as some of the others on this forum.
 If you haven't heard any of the bootlegs before, I'd say it WOULD be worth the wait. However, unless there's some new stuff that's been locked in the vaults that no one has heard before, I wont be holding my breath.
I hope I'm wrong though.  

New songs - something we've never heard or even heard of before ?  About as likely as being hit by a UFO piloted by Elvis while waterskiing behind the Loch Ness Monster.

New session tapes - I'd be hugely surprised if there wasn't.

I said new STUFF Andrew-IE stuff that hasn't been released. In other words a version of a song or take which the general public hasn't heard.

There will be plenty of new "stuff" on the box. Only a portion of the 30+ hours of session tapes have been booted.

[seanmurd]

the construction of out-fakes a la Anthology 2

the beatles? what was on anthology 2 that was an outfake?

Tons of tracks on Anthology 2 and 3 were outfakes ... anything where they combined early takes with "master" elements ("A Day In The Life") or combined multiple takes to make a "composite" version ("Lucy In The Sky"), etc. Some of them worked, some did not.

[rab2591]

What - TSS leak links?? Do we really need that??

Hasn't TSS ("The Smile Stuff") been leaking for years..??  

Yes it has ,that's why I'm not as excited about the release as some of the others on this forum.
 If you haven't heard any of the bootlegs before, I'd say it WOULD be worth the wait. However, unless there's some new stuff that's been locked in the vaults that no one has heard before, I wont be holding my breath.
I hope I'm wrong though.  

New songs - something we've never heard or even heard of before ?  About as likely as being hit by a UFO piloted by Elvis while waterskiing behind the Loch Ness Monster.

New session tapes - I'd be hugely surprised if there wasn't.

I said new STUFF Andrew-IE stuff that hasn't been released. In other words a version of a song or take which the general public hasn't heard.

There will be plenty of new "stuff" on the box. Only a portion of the 30+ hours of session tapes have been booted.

I am incredibly excited. Mark Linett said that they have found new stuff that the bootleggers looked over....new songs? Maybe not. New mixes of songs? Some acetates? New session takes? All very possible.

Plus, it's not just about new stuff....it's about properly mixed versions of songs we have heard before. Take the MOJO 'Wonderful' single - Brian and that Harpsichord have never sounded clearer.

[seanmurd]

I am incredibly excited. Mark Linett said that they have found new stuff that the bootleggers looked over....new songs? Maybe not. New mixes of songs? Some acetates? New session takes? All very possible.

Plus, it's not just about new stuff....it's about properly mixed versions of songs we have heard before. Take the MOJO 'Wonderful' single - Brian and that Harpsichord have never sounded clearer.

Exactly. People hoping for the music to the second movement of "Surf's Up" or the 7+ minute "H&V" will probably be massively disappointed. But hearing everything (including sutff we've all heard before) in best-ever sound, and IN CONTEXT (rather than spread out over a dozen disparate CDs) will be the triumph of this set.

[Dunderhead]

Already making excuses for the box set I see. We really already have most of smile mixed properly, the ones we don't have are the more unimportant songs. I have to say I probably won't rush out to buy this box set for new mixes of You Are My Sunshine or Look. Those would be nice to have, but I'll be disappointed if that's the only thing. Mark came out and did in fact say that there was new material that would be included, so I don't think we should resign ourselves to "well at least we got everything we already have in good quality" just yet.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Already making excuses for the box set I see. We really already have most of smile mixed properly, the ones we don't have are the more unimportant songs. I have to say I probably won't rush out to buy this box set for new mixes of You Are My Sunshine or Look. Those would be nice to have, but I'll be disappointed if that's the only thing. Mark came out and did in fact say that there was new material that would be included, so I don't think we should resign ourselves to "well at least we got everything we already have in good quality" just yet.

No, we don't - the only Smile era recordings that we have 'mixed properly' (as opposed to Brian's rough mixes) are the SS version of "H&V", "You're Welcome" and if you stretch a point slightly, "Prayer" & "Cabin Essence". Rumour has it that there's a BW mono mix of "COFTTM" out there, but of course I wouldn't know anything about that as it would be on a bootleg, which is a bad thing.

More to the point, the best quality unofficial material is the SOT stuff, and that's at best 2nd generation. Mark & Alan are working from the original multitracks. The quality will be orders of magnitude beyond what we've heard before - the Mojo 45 alone proves that.

[Mahalo]

Even the "more unimportant" songs are vital, IMO.

[Dunderhead]

Already making excuses for the box set I see. We really already have most of smile mixed properly, the ones we don't have are the more unimportant songs. I have to say I probably won't rush out to buy this box set for new mixes of You Are My Sunshine or Look. Those would be nice to have, but I'll be disappointed if that's the only thing. Mark came out and did in fact say that there was new material that would be included, so I don't think we should resign ourselves to "well at least we got everything we already have in good quality" just yet.

No, we don't - the only Smile era recordings that we have 'mixed properly' (as opposed to Brian's rough mixes) are the SS version of "H&V", "You're Welcome" and if you stretch a point slightly, "Prayer" & "Cabin Essence". Rumour has it that there's a BW mono mix of "COFTTM" out there, but of course I wouldn't know anything about that as it would be on a bootleg, which is a bad thing.

More to the point, the best quality unofficial material is the SOT stuff, and that's at best 2nd generation. Mark & Alan are working from the original multitracks. The quality will be orders of magnitude beyond what we've heard before - the Mojo 45 alone proves that.

Well hello Mr. Rip Van Winkle! You'll be happy to now that in the last 40 years there have been some great new releases of smile material! Several versions of Heroes and Villains, including a 6 minute montage of sections. Vega-Tables, I Love To Say Da Da, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, and Do You Like Worms are all available for your enjoyment. I also don't get this obsession with Cabinessence and Surf's Up. I really only want to hear the songs sounding completed. Cabinessence on 20/20 sounds great and is as good as the song will likely ever sound. I don't know what's so offensive about the vocals on it. Surf's Up too sounds great, and the prospect of getting a new mix without Carl's vocal is kind of nice, but I can't say I really care, it sounds just fine whenever I want to listen to it. The remaining stuff consists of songs that likely would not have been included on the final album or things like Friday Night or You Are My Sunshine. They're nice little bits, but I'm not wetting myself at the prospect of getting new mixes for these.

So really we in fact do have mixes for most of the album, but I know, I know, you get your rocks off on being pedantic and quibbling over the smallest detail.
To me, just having some new mixes of a couple of the bootlegged songs doesn't get me too excited. I don't really even like things like Look and He Gives Speeches to begin with.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well aware of those tracks, but they're not what I'd call properly mixed. Mostly 1966 BW working/test mixes (which is why the cantina version of "H&V" sounds crappy in parts).

As for being pedantic, if this stuff isn't properly documented now by the likes of me and others far better placed and qualified, then I'm glad I won't be around in say 40 years time to see what's being presented as fact on whatever the 'net evolves into. I think BB research & scholarship may be peaking, likewise I don't see anyone in the future being dumb enough to want to go into such insane detail.

And if you think I'm bad, go hang out on a hard-core Beatles MB: those guys truly are nuts.

Parting thought: if you're so certain you're going to be entirely unimpressed with the set, why waste your time posting in a thread about it ?  Last guy who got a real grump on over it was some dude called... Will Coren, I think the name was. Don't see him round these parts any more.

[Mahalo]

hearing everything (including sutff we've all heard before) in best-ever sound, and IN CONTEXT (rather than spread out over a dozen disparate CDs) will be the triumph of this set.

To have this as part of a set in best ever sound and in context will be of great allure. There may be lots of snippets left off of the set that are sure to be accomodated for within people's collections but to not have rummage through countless CDr's and/or trying to organize the SMiLE music that is scattered all over the place will be amazing.

[BiG GRiN]

Well aware of those tracks, but they're not what I'd call properly mixed. Mostly 1966 BW working/test mixes (which is why the cantina version of "H&V" sounds crappy in parts).

As for being pedantic, if this stuff isn't properly documented now by the likes of me and others far better placed and qualified, then I'm glad I won't be around in say 40 years time to see what's being presented as fact on whatever the 'net evolves into. I think BB research & scholarship may be peaking, likewise I don't see anyone in the future being dumb enough to want to go into such insane detail.

And if you think I'm bad, go hang out on a hard-core Beatles MB: those guys truly are nuts.

Parting thought: if you're so certain you're going to be entirely unimpressed with the set, why waste your time posting in a thread about it ?  Last guy who got a real grump on over it was some dude called... Will Coren, I think the name was. Don't see him round these parts any more.

Sorry Andrew, what do you mean by "properly mixed"?
there are plenty of very good SMiLE mixes by 'fans', with songs wonderfully mixed. I'm not talking about bootlegs, but fans (some of them are artists, musicians...), who did very good mixes. We can be disagree with their choice of mix, but it sounds good.
What I mean, I don't think the songs in the box set won't be mixed as intented to be in 1966/67.  I'm not sure that Brian can recall how he wanted the final mix.
So the team (especially Mark Linett) will have to make a choice about which parts will be added and in wich order.
Ok, I'm not sure what I've said is very clear! 

[Mahalo]

There is a clarity that is missing on many fan mixes that is no fault of the fans doing the mixes/comps but rather the fact that the material that is out there to use is not of the best quality...hopefully this set will provide that quality and then we can hear other fan mixes like Alt. BWPS with better sounding tracks... thats a HOPEFULLY. I have a feeling that the biggest cause for debate will the mixes themselves...for example, I really hope that the deep bass line on CIFOTM is not lost a la BWPS.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well aware of those tracks, but they're not what I'd call properly mixed. Mostly 1966 BW working/test mixes (which is why the cantina version of "H&V" sounds crappy in parts).

As for being pedantic, if this stuff isn't properly documented now by the likes of me and others far better placed and qualified, then I'm glad I won't be around in say 40 years time to see what's being presented as fact on whatever the 'net evolves into. I think BB research & scholarship may be peaking, likewise I don't see anyone in the future being dumb enough to want to go into such insane detail.

And if you think I'm bad, go hang out on a hard-core Beatles MB: those guys truly are nuts.

Parting thought: if you're so certain you're going to be entirely unimpressed with the set, why waste your time posting in a thread about it ?  Last guy who got a real grump on over it was some dude called... Will Coren, I think the name was. Don't see him round these parts any more.

Sorry Andrew, what do you mean by "properly mixed"?
there are plenty of very good SMiLE mixes by 'fans', with songs wonderfully mixed. I'm not talking about bootlegs, but fans (some of them are artists, musicians...), who did very good mixes. We can be disagree with their choice of mix, but it sounds good.
What I mean, I don't think the songs in the box set won't be mixed as intented to be in 1966/67.  I'm not sure that Brian can recall how he wanted the final mix.
So the team (especially Mark Linett) will have to make a choice about which parts will be added and in wich order.
Ok, I'm not sure what I've said is very clear! 

Erm, the term "mix" implies audio mixing which no fan is capable of doing except to a very limited extent. This is something altogether different from tracklisting and where the parts go.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well aware of those tracks, but they're not what I'd call properly mixed. Mostly 1966 BW working/test mixes (which is why the cantina version of "H&V" sounds crappy in parts).

As for being pedantic, if this stuff isn't properly documented now by the likes of me and others far better placed and qualified, then I'm glad I won't be around in say 40 years time to see what's being presented as fact on whatever the 'net evolves into. I think BB research & scholarship may be peaking, likewise I don't see anyone in the future being dumb enough to want to go into such insane detail.

And if you think I'm bad, go hang out on a hard-core Beatles MB: those guys truly are nuts.

Parting thought: if you're so certain you're going to be entirely unimpressed with the set, why waste your time posting in a thread about it ?  Last guy who got a real grump on over it was some dude called... Will Coren, I think the name was. Don't see him round these parts any more.

Sorry Andrew, what do you mean by "properly mixed"?
there are plenty of very good SMiLE mixes by 'fans', with songs wonderfully mixed. I'm not talking about bootlegs, but fans (some of them are artists, musicians...), who did very good mixes. We can be disagree with their choice of mix, but it sounds good.
What I mean, I don't think the songs in the box set won't be mixed as intented to be in 1966/67.  I'm not sure that Brian can recall how he wanted the final mix.
So the team (especially Mark Linett) will have to make a choice about which parts will be added and in wich order.
Ok, I'm not sure what I've said is very clear! 

Those so-called fan mixes, however good (and there are some superb ones out there) aren't what I class as a mix - unless said fans have access to the original 4- and 8-track tapes and period equipment: they're combinations of existing tapes, that's all.

My original point was that precious few completed period mixes exist from the era. Possibly the box will present some newly unearthed ones. That would be great. As for whatever Mark & Alan do, it will of course be noted in the liners that these are 2011 mixes prepared from the original tapes with Brian's nod.

[BiG GRiN]

hearing everything (including sutff we've all heard before) in best-ever sound, and IN CONTEXT (rather than spread out over a dozen disparate CDs) will be the triumph of this set.

To have this as part of a set in best ever sound and in context will be of great allure. There may be lots of snippets left off of the set that are sure to be accomodated for within people's collections but to not have rummage through countless CDr's and/or trying to organize the SMiLE music that is scattered all over the place will be amazing.

I agree, and I really like answers about "He gives speeches", "With me tonight", "the spanish guitar segment (aka 'Indian wisdom'?), some comedy sketches ('dirty jokes', 'vegetables argument'...), some sound effects (part of "George fell", water sound, crickling noise...), the chanting words..... and more...
Was it intended to be part of the SMiLE project? I have already talked about that, and we know all these stuff exist, has been recorded, with Brian giving instructions to musicians and his gang, with Brian saying in 1967 about SMiLE that it was a project with 'spoken words, chants, sound effects, instrumental parts...' and we still have no answers. Maybe a lot of you are not interested by these "psychedelic sounds", but it was recorded during the SMiLE sessions.

[BiG GRiN]

Well aware of those tracks, but they're not what I'd call properly mixed. Mostly 1966 BW working/test mixes (which is why the cantina version of "H&V" sounds crappy in parts).

As for being pedantic, if this stuff isn't properly documented now by the likes of me and others far better placed and qualified, then I'm glad I won't be around in say 40 years time to see what's being presented as fact on whatever the 'net evolves into. I think BB research & scholarship may be peaking, likewise I don't see anyone in the future being dumb enough to want to go into such insane detail.

And if you think I'm bad, go hang out on a hard-core Beatles MB: those guys truly are nuts.

Parting thought: if you're so certain you're going to be entirely unimpressed with the set, why waste your time posting in a thread about it ?  Last guy who got a real grump on over it was some dude called... Will Coren, I think the name was. Don't see him round these parts any more.

Sorry Andrew, what do you mean by "properly mixed"?
there are plenty of very good SMiLE mixes by 'fans', with songs wonderfully mixed. I'm not talking about bootlegs, but fans (some of them are artists, musicians...), who did very good mixes. We can be disagree with their choice of mix, but it sounds good.
What I mean, I don't think the songs in the box set won't be mixed as intented to be in 1966/67.  I'm not sure that Brian can recall how he wanted the final mix.
So the team (especially Mark Linett) will have to make a choice about which parts will be added and in wich order.
Ok, I'm not sure what I've said is very clear! 

Those so-called fan mixes, however good (and there are some superb ones out there) aren't what I class as a mix - unless said fans have access to the original 4- and 8-track tapes and period equipment: they're combinations of existing tapes, that's all.

My original point was that precious few completed period mixes exist from the era. Possibly the box will present some newly unearthed ones. That would be great. As for whatever Mark & Alan do, it will of course be noted in the liners that these are 2011 mixes prepared from the original tapes with Brian's nod.

Thank you for the answer, it is perfectly clear. And of course I agree with you about the term 'mix'.
It is true that some 'fan mixes' made with combinations of existing tapes are very good and the definitve (?) version of SMiLE 2011 will sound better than ever!

[Andrew G. Doe]

I agree, and I really like answers about "He gives speeches", "With me tonight", "the spanish guitar segment (aka 'Indian wisdom'?), some comedy sketches ('dirty jokes', 'vegetables argument'...), some sound effects (part of "George fell", water sound, crickling noise...), the chanting words..... and more.

"Indian Wisdom", aka "Doves Of Peace" is in fact a Friends outtake, recorded 3/26/68 and logged helpfully as "New Song"... so it won't be part of The Smile Sessions.

Note to Fishmonk: please ignore this shameless pedantry and continue to regard the track as a true part of Smile.

[BiG GRiN]

I agree, and I really like answers about "He gives speeches", "With me tonight", "the spanish guitar segment (aka 'Indian wisdom'?), some comedy sketches ('dirty jokes', 'vegetables argument'...), some sound effects (part of "George fell", water sound, crickling noise...), the chanting words..... and more.

"Indian Wisdom", aka "Doves Of Peace" is in fact a Friends outtake, recorded 3/26/68 and logged helpfully as "New Song"... so it won't be part of The Smile Sessions.

Note to Fishmonk: please ignore this shameless pedantry and continue to regard the track as a true part of Smile.

Thank you Andrew! In fact I had a doubt. I was talking about the so called 'Untitled Instrumental' or 'Spanish Guitar Piece' featuring in the bootleg "Secret SMiLE" and I had read somewhere it was also called "Indian Wisdom". So it was wrong  .
Which means the 'Untitled Instrumental' (or 'Spanish Guitar Piece') is part of the SMiLE sessions, but does this ; piece was intended to be part of the album? we don't know? right? until SMiLE 2011 maybe.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I agree, and I really like answers about "He gives speeches", "With me tonight", "the spanish guitar segment (aka 'Indian wisdom'?), some comedy sketches ('dirty jokes', 'vegetables argument'...), some sound effects (part of "George fell", water sound, crickling noise...), the chanting words..... and more.

"Indian Wisdom", aka "Doves Of Peace" is in fact a Friends outtake, recorded 3/26/68 and logged helpfully as "New Song"... so it won't be part of The Smile Sessions.

Note to Fishmonk: please ignore this shameless pedantry and continue to regard the track as a true part of Smile.

Thank you Andrew! In fact I had a doubt. I was talking about the so called 'Untitled Instrumental' or 'Spanish Guitar Piece' featuring in the bootleg "Secret SMiLE" and I had read somewhere it was also called "Indian Wisdom". So it was wrong  .
Which means the 'Untitled Instrumental' (or 'Spanish Guitar Piece') is part of the SMiLE sessions, but does this ; piece was intended to be part of the album? we don't know? right? until SMiLE 2011 maybe.

No - the 'spanish guitar piece' is "New Song", from Friends: nothing to do with Smile.

[Mr. Cohen]

Surf's Up too sounds great, and the prospect of getting a new mix without Carl's vocal is kind of nice, but I can't say I really care, it sounds just fine whenever I want to listen to it.[/quote]

I'd be ecstatic with the '70s mix if they just took the organ out of the first half. Adding that to make it blend with the 2 organ heavy songs preceding it on the album ("Tree" and "Til I Die") was a mistake. It distracts from the original arrangement without adding anything essential.

[Mr. Cohen]

I'd also argue that the organ takes away from feeling you're supposed to get when the horns come in at the "columnated ruins" bit. On the original mix, the horns fill in a part of the sound spectrum that was original empty. On the '70s take, the organ is already filling up part of the "sound space" in the song that was supposed to be empty until the horns came in.

[Shady]

This might be a stupid question but will the " Hum be dum hum be dum" be added to this version of Good Vibrations

[BiG GRiN]

I agree, and I really like answers about "He gives speeches", "With me tonight", "the spanish guitar segment (aka 'Indian wisdom'?), some comedy sketches ('dirty jokes', 'vegetables argument'...), some sound effects (part of "George fell", water sound, crickling noise...), the chanting words..... and more.

"Indian Wisdom", aka "Doves Of Peace" is in fact a Friends outtake, recorded 3/26/68 and logged helpfully as "New Song"... so it won't be part of The Smile Sessions.

Note to Fishmonk: please ignore this shameless pedantry and continue to regard the track as a true part of Smile.

Thank you Andrew! In fact I had a doubt. I was talking about the so called 'Untitled Instrumental' or 'Spanish Guitar Piece' featuring in the bootleg "Secret SMiLE" and I had read somewhere it was also called "Indian Wisdom". So it was wrong  .
Which means the 'Untitled Instrumental' (or 'Spanish Guitar Piece') is part of the SMiLE sessions, but does this ; piece was intended to be part of the album? we don't know? right? until SMiLE 2011 maybe.

No - the 'spanish guitar piece' is "New Song", from Friends: nothing to do with Smile.

Thank you Andrew, sorry for the mistake!

[doinnothin]

Given that he was hired by The Beatles to assemble the Let It Be album, I wonder if Phil Spector was ever considered to make something of the SMiLE tapes. Probably not, but you could imagine it seeming like a good idea to somebody at some point.