SMiLE Sessions box set!

[cutterschoice]

My point is for the people who think Mike single handedly kept Smile from being released, need to look at the fact that he sang on an album that was far stranger than Smile was. If Mike was so set against Smile as some claim, why wasn't Smiley more pre-Smile-ish? Smiley is far closer to Smile than it is to Pet Sounds, Party or Summer Days. Mike's displeasure with some of the lyrics, and telling Brian so, was not the reason for it not being released. The related songs on Smiley have the same melody and lyrics as the Smile versions.

I'm sure everyone is well aware Mike isn't solely responsible. We can't ignore that his resistance, and anyone else's would have had an influence on Brian. I see no point in speculating to what degree that was, though.

Although I will speculate on the Smiley point you made. It could be that Smiley wasn't more pre-Smile-ish in style due to time, budget constraints, contractual obligations and the mental fatigue of their main songwriter/producer.

[LostArt]

First off, it is my opinion that it was Brian who made the decision to scrap Smile.  He was the only person who could make that decision.  He was the producer.  He was the songwriter.  He was in charge.  He was responsible for the livelihood of The Beach Boys, who were his family and friends.

In the late summer and autumn of 1966 Brian and Van Dyke were working on something special, and they both knew it.  By most accounts, folks who were around Brian and heard the music that he was recording, were in awe.  Brian was on the top of his game.

But then, something happened.  We’ll never know what.  There are reports of band members questioning lyrics.  There are reports of people off in corners having little ‘meetings’.  Van Dyke has said that he left the project in the interest of group harmony.  

So, even though everyone did what was asked of them (as far as we know), I think the group was pushing back to some (unknown) degree.   I know Cam likes to say that Brian had never been influenced by group pressure before, which is mostly true (he did change the lyrics to Hang On To Your Ego at Mike’s… suggestion).  I think that Marilyn was right when she said that they wore him down.  I’ll bring out one of Cam’s favorite quotes again.  Brian in 1968:        

“Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE. I was
working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on
the tunes, and in the process we came up with a song called 'Surf’s Up,' and
I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music.  
The song 'Surf’s Up' that I sang for that documentary never came out on an album,
and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of
other songs were junked ... because I didn't feel that they ... I
don't know why, I just didn't, for some reason, didn't want to put them on
the album ... and the group nearly broke up, actually split up for good over
that, that one ... the decision of mine not to put a lot of the things that
we'd cut for the album SMILEY SMILE on the album, and so for like almost a
year, we're just now kind of getting back together ... because I didn't
think that the songs really were right for the public at the time, and I
didn't have a feeling, a commercial feeling, about some of these songs that
we've never released, and ... maybe I ... some people like to hang onto
certain things and ... just as their own little songs that they've written
almost for themselves. And a lot of times, you know, a person will write
and will realize later that they're ... it's not commercial, you know, but
what they've written is nice for them, but a lot of people just don't like
it.”

Okay.  Cam says that Brian is saying that he made a decision to keep Surf’s Up and some other songs off the album, and the group split up (for good) because of this decision.  First of all, when did the group split up?  They worked hard on Smiley Smile, released a single credited to Brian and Mike, worked on Wild Honey until November, and started Friends in the winter of ’68.  I’m not sure what Brian means by this ‘broke up’ comment.

So here’s my interpretation of the quote.  It starts out with Brian talking openly, freely about Smile and Surf’s Up, as if he’s very proud that his song was featured on a television show.  And then he says the word ‘junked’, and the whole tone of the quote changes.  He can’t finish a sentence, he pauses many times.  Is he carefully choosing his words?  Is he embarrassed about not putting the songs on the album?  I don’t know.  For the rest of the quote he stumbles his way to the part where he starts talking about the commercial value of the songs.  For the rest of the quote I’ll inject my interpretation of his words.  Now, no one shoot me.  This is just a frikkin’ theory.  There just words…if you don’t like them, throw them away.  

…maybe I [maybe I’ll release my own album] …some people like to hang on to certain things [to do with what they’d like] and…just as their own little songs that they’ve written almost for themselves [for their own album].  And a lot of times, you know, a person will realize later that they’re…it’s not commercial [it’s not Beach Boys material], you know, but what they’ve written is nice for them [as the closing track to my first solo record], but a lot of people [certain group members] just don’t like it.

So, you watch the video of Brian singing Surf’s Up at the piano and tell me that he doesn’t think this is one of the best pieces of music he’s ever written.  People are telling him it’s fantastic, it’s featured on a nationally televised show on CBS with Leonard Bernstein praising it as the new direction of pop music, and then he junks it because a lot of people just don’t like it?  I don’t buy it.

Here’s another Brian quote:

“I just threw it away, I junked it. I thought it was inappropriate music for us [The Beach Boys] to make.”

So, he junked it [saved it].  He remakes some of the Smile stuff, puts out an inferior (in my opinion) version of Heroes and Villains, and keeps the best songs (again, IMHO) off the album, which is now Smiley Smile.  Everybody participates, has fun laughing, and with no ‘crow cries’ or ‘columnated ruins’ lyrics, group harmony is restored.  And the rest is, as they say, history.

[drbeachboy]

My point is for the people who think Mike single handedly kept Smile from being released, need to look at the fact that he sang on an album that was far stranger than Smile was. If Mike was so set against Smile as some claim, why wasn't Smiley more pre-Smile-ish? Smiley is far closer to Smile than it is to Pet Sounds, Party or Summer Days. Mike's displeasure with some of the lyrics, and telling Brian so, was not the reason for it not being released. The related songs on Smiley have the same melody and lyrics as the Smile versions.

I'm sure everyone is well aware Mike isn't solely responsible. We can't ignore that his resistance, and anyone else's would have had an influence on Brian. I see no point in speculating to what degree that was, though.

Although I will speculate on the Smiley point you made. It could be that Smiley wasn't more pre-Smile-ish in style due to time, budget constraints, contractual obligations and the mental fatigue of their main songwriter/producer.

I agree that most here understand that, but not all, and that is why I addressed it. I was responding to the few that haven't quite wrapped their arms around the idea. People seem to need a Hero (Brian) & Villain (Mike) with Smile. I suppose for some that it's tough to accept Brian as both. As for Smiley, sure there were time constraints for Smiley, but also for Smile too. If Mike was OK with the release of Smiley Smile, then he would have been just as OK with the release of Smile.

[LostArt]

My point is for the people who think Mike single handedly kept Smile from being released, need to look at the fact that he sang on an album that was far stranger than Smile was. If Mike was so set against Smile as some claim, why wasn't Smiley more pre-Smile-ish? Smiley is far closer to Smile than it is to Pet Sounds, Party or Summer Days. Mike's displeasure with some of the lyrics, and telling Brian so, was not the reason for it not being released. The related songs on Smiley have the same melody and lyrics as the Smile versions.

I'm sure everyone is well aware Mike isn't solely responsible. We can't ignore that his resistance, and anyone else's would have had an influence on Brian. I see no point in speculating to what degree that was, though.

Although I will speculate on the Smiley point you made. It could be that Smiley wasn't more pre-Smile-ish in style due to time, budget constraints, contractual obligations and the mental fatigue of their main songwriter/producer.

As well as the fact that psychedelic music was becoming much more mainstream by the summer of '67.  The group had all heard Strawberry Fields Forever (among others) on the radio.

[guitarfool2002]

So, you watch the video of Brian singing Surf’s Up at the piano and tell me that he doesn’t think this is one of the best pieces of music he’s ever written.  People are telling him it’s fantastic, it’s featured on a nationally televised show on CBS with Leonard Bernstein praising it as the new direction of pop music, and then he junks it because a lot of people just don’t like it?  I don’t buy it.

I'll say this: Inside Pop is one of my favorite pieces of 60's TV, and Brian's performance from the first time I saw it was stunning, beautiful, and as compelling a solo performance as might be possible in that context. Until I saw the full program, I was hoping there may have been more to Brian's appearance than what was edited into the show (teaser at the beginning, edited performance near the end)...but that performance is a milestone.

What blew my mind was finding out years after watching the performance - through recollections that may have included Vosse, Anderle, and others who were there - that Brian had to be coaxed and prodded into that performance.

DISCLAIMER: If anyone can fill in the gaps here with those actual quotes, it would be much appreciated!

So by those accounts, if accurate, Brian was not into doing that song on camera the night it was filmed, and I think those others in the room all but forced him to attempt that performance...perhaps suggesting they thought the song was more worthy of a wider audience than Brian himself, I don't know. Those accounts put a new perspective on that incredible performance, and removed what we actually saw of it on Inside Pop versus accounts of him doing a similar thing for the cameras at the studio as reported by Jules Seigel.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

No one probably. Someone did single-handedly keep SMiLE from being released...[cough] Brian.

I'm not sure why we can't let Brian just own it. The Boys did everything in their power to make SMiLE happen for Brian even with whatever "problems" they may have had with it or how mistreated they felt by Brian. They were very upset over SMiLE, very upset that Brian just unilaterally junked it; almost/did break up the band according to Brian. Even after that, they plowed right back in doing everything in their power to make Smiley happen for Brian. We need to get over it, imo.

The idea that one man basically chooses his own destiny is a very comforting and, currently, a very American idea, but it's also a myth. While Brian was the one who ultimately decided to not continue with the project (a point that no one disagrees with) there were nevertheless a significant amount of factors that contributed to this decision, many of which were out of Brian's own control. In fact, one could say that it was Brian's own inability to fully control the project that led him to junk it.

That's a possibility but I don't see it. Everything from the time tells me Brian was very much in control of the group and the label and the Posse and his creation and had SMiLE well under control. Brian did not seem to care what others may think, he was going to do his thing regardless of the label, the group, the Posse. Not in a jerk way, though it amounted to being a lovable jerk often, but in a I'm in my creative zone and you are in my zone and my rules apply in my zone. So, you could say or complain all you wanted but Brian's confidence and enthusiasm in the zone swept you along and you understood that was the way it was. And on top of that the Boys wanted Brian in his zone and they wanted to be in his zone with him, it was exciting.

Whatever his reasons, they were his reasons despite what anyone else thought or wanted. He was also the Producer. It seems to me the problem isn't what happened, it's us wrapping our head around the fact that Brian didn't dig SMiLE enough to release it?

Well, just as one striking example, Brian suffered from a very serious psychological disorder which his drug use only served to enhance. The fact that he didn't know either of these things suggests that there was quite a bit outside of control and quite a bit outside of his knowledge.

More over, he was a product of an upbringing that made him very sensitive to criticism and, I think, very fearful of failure. I think this basically explain his work all thoughout the 60s.

[Roger Ryan]

Okay.  Cam says that Brian is saying that he made a decision to keep Surf’s Up and some other songs off the album, and the group split up (for good) because of this decision.  First of all, when did the group split up?  They worked hard on Smiley Smile, released a single credited to Brian and Mike, worked on Wild Honey until November, and started Friends in the winter of ’68.  I’m not sure what Brian means by this ‘broke up’ comment.

Brian's quote is that the band almost broke up over the SMiLE debacle, not that they did. He's rephrasing the action as "actually split up" in the second half of the sentence, but the word "almost" still applies.

More importantly, he's stating the dissent among the band members was over Brian's decision not to finish the album. This is the most logical response I can imagine. More than whether certain members thought the material was inappropriate for the Beach Boys, the fact that the producer was junking six or seven months of session work could not have pleased anyone. They would certainly have questioned their breadwinner's sanity, probably enough so that when Brian rushed SMILEY SMILE into production the rest of band were relieved to simply be working on anything as long as Brian kept producing.

[Peter Reum]

Remember that some memos from Capitol post Smiley Smile refer to possible reworking or working on Smile material. I have a hunch that Brian`s reference is to post Smiley Smile work on Smile songs...not during Smile.

[David Kennedy]

I am sure I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere that during SMiLE Brian was the only one besides VDP really using drugs and some of the members were unhappy with his hashish use.  But during the Smiley Smile recordings I thought he got the whole band turned on to hash. My point being... if that's true then maybe if the entire band was in an altered state of mind then they might have been less resistive to Smiley because they were more open to experimental music than the last album. Its a stretch but just a thought.

[dmcguire70]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

[Chris Moise]

Wasn't it mentioned here sometime back about a group meeting circa December, 1966 where the band vetoed the album? Or am I misremembering something? Piping hot clam chowder enemas!

There isn't an iota of evidence that supports this. There is however an overwhelming amount of evidence that contradicts it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

Care to share your source for that date with us ? 'Cause this is the first I've heard of it. I suspect the set producers share my surprise.

[buddhahat]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

As far as we know there was no press release set for June 15th although you may know something I don't!

The special edition of Mojo, that we hoped might've had more (any) info on the contents of the box, was released on June 15th, if that's what you're getting mixed up with?

[dmcguire70]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

Care to share your source for that date with us ? 'Cause this is the first I've heard of it. I suspect the set producers share my surprise.

Can't remember where i read that ,but I'm pretty sure it said something about the 15 th of June being the date when Capitol were going to release some info about some of the track listings, unless i got my wires crossed. I'll get back  to you on that one.
By the way I was a fan of Sheens Korner myself!  

[LostArt]

I'll say this: Inside Pop is one of my favorite pieces of 60's TV, and Brian's performance from the first time I saw it was stunning, beautiful, and as compelling a solo performance as might be possible in that context. Until I saw the full program, I was hoping there may have been more to Brian's appearance than what was edited into the show (teaser at the beginning, edited performance near the end)...but that performance is a milestone.

What blew my mind was finding out years after watching the performance - through recollections that may have included Vosse, Anderle, and others who were there - that Brian had to be coaxed and prodded into that performance.

DISCLAIMER: If anyone can fill in the gaps here with those actual quotes, it would be much appreciated!

So by those accounts, if accurate, Brian was not into doing that song on camera the night it was filmed, and I think those others in the room all but forced him to attempt that performance...perhaps suggesting they thought the song was more worthy of a wider audience than Brian himself, I don't know. Those accounts put a new perspective on that incredible performance, and removed what we actually saw of it on Inside Pop versus accounts of him doing a similar thing for the cameras at the studio as reported by Jules Seigel.

Very interesting.  Yeah, if anybody has any quotes about this, please pass them on.  Thanks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

Care to share your source for that date with us ? 'Cause this is the first I've heard of it. I suspect the set producers share my surprise.

Can't remember where i read that ,but I'm pretty sure it said something about the 15 th of June being the date when Capitol were going to release some info about some of the track listings, unless i got my wires crossed. I'll get back  to you on that one.
By the way I was a fan of Sheens Korner myself!  

Well, been tracking all this since early February and this is the first I've heard about any 6/15 announcement (which, er, didn't happen, btw). I'd be astonished if it had happened.

[The Heartical Don]

Do we have any idea of the track listing for the box set?
 I thought that they were going to issue a press release on the 15th of June.

Care to share your source for that date with us ? 'Cause this is the first I've heard of it. I suspect the set producers share my surprise.

The BW.com website has the announcement (now for ages, it seems) that the actual release date will be 'unveiled soon'.

In the BBs universe, the space-time continuum works differently.

'Soon' reminds me of the sign in many taverns: 'Free Beer Tomorrow'.

[seanmurd]

Well, been tracking all this since early February and this is the first I've heard about any 6/15 announcement (which, er, didn't happen, btw). I'd be astonished if it had happened.

Perhaps he was thinking of the 6/15 street date for the MOJO special, and the subsequent speculation (including by myself) that this would coincide with further information from Capitol. Certainly Capitol has never promised info on any timeline other than "soon" ... but I don't see a long gap between March and now, rather several links in the PR chain:

MARCH: Announcement ... APRIL: RSD 78 double-single ... MAY: Various interviews that confirm/discuss SMiLE project ... JUNE: MOJO special and exclusive 45 ... JULY: Tracklist and release date ... AUGUST: Early reviews and streaming previews ... SEPTEMBER: The Smile Sessions is released!

[The Heartical Don]

Well, been tracking all this since early February and this is the first I've heard about any 6/15 announcement (which, er, didn't happen, btw). I'd be astonished if it had happened.

Perhaps he was thinking of the 6/15 street date for the MOJO special, and the subsequent speculation (including by myself) that this would coincide with further information from Capitol. Certainly Capitol has never promised info on any timeline other than "soon" ... but I don't see a long gap between March and now, rather several links in the PR chain:

MARCH: Announcement ... APRIL: RSD 78 double-single ... MAY: Various interviews that confirm/discuss SMiLE project ... JUNE: MOJO special and exclusive 45 ... JULY: Tracklist and release date ... AUGUST: Early reviews and streaming previews ... SEPTEMBER: Another Al Jardine interview with an ever-so-brief hint at the possibility of the '67 SMiLE material eventually being given a release if final hurdles will have been taken.

Man, you got prophetic gifts! My hopes are raised again (gasp)!

[Cam Mott]

Re. Brian's 1968 quote: that is a transcript of a radio show, the "...."s may or may not represent stumbling or pauses or might represent breaks for song clips and VO. Anyone have a sample of Brian's portion of that show?

[seanmurd]

Well, been tracking all this since early February and this is the first I've heard about any 6/15 announcement (which, er, didn't happen, btw). I'd be astonished if it had happened.

Perhaps he was thinking of the 6/15 street date for the MOJO special, and the subsequent speculation (including by myself) that this would coincide with further information from Capitol. Certainly Capitol has never promised info on any timeline other than "soon" ... but I don't see a long gap between March and now, rather several links in the PR chain:

MARCH: Announcement ... APRIL: RSD 78 double-single ... MAY: Various interviews that confirm/discuss SMiLE project ... JUNE: MOJO special and exclusive 45 ... JULY: Tracklist and release date ... AUGUST: Early reviews and streaming previews ... SEPTEMBER: The Smile Sessions is released!

Man, you got prophetic gifts! My hopes are raised again (gasp)!

Not a prophecy, not a prediction -- just a guess based on what's happened so far. Everyone seems to be looking at the March press release as "Point A" and release day as "Point B" -- with nothing in between and everything taking "forever". I just think that there's actually been some activity since March, and that certain things (the RSD single, the MOJO 45) are not coincidences but rather part of the larger rollout plan.

[bgas]

So, you watch the video of Brian singing Surf’s Up at the piano and tell me that he doesn’t think this is one of the best pieces of music he’s ever written.  People are telling him it’s fantastic, it’s featured on a nationally televised show on CBS with Leonard Bernstein praising it as the new direction of pop music, and then he junks it because a lot of people just don’t like it?  I don’t buy it.

I'll say this: Inside Pop is one of my favorite pieces of 60's TV, and Brian's performance from the first time I saw it was stunning, beautiful, and as compelling a solo performance as might be possible in that context. Until I saw the full program, I was hoping there may have been more to Brian's appearance than what was edited into the show (teaser at the beginning, edited performance near the end)...but that performance is a milestone.

What blew my mind was finding out years after watching the performance - through recollections that may have included Vosse, Anderle, and others who were there - that Brian had to be coaxed and prodded into that performance.

DISCLAIMER: If anyone can fill in the gaps here with those actual quotes, it would be much appreciated!

So by those accounts, if accurate, Brian was not into doing that song on camera the night it was filmed, and I think those others in the room all but forced him to attempt that performance...perhaps suggesting they thought the song was more worthy of a wider audience than Brian himself, I don't know. Those accounts put a new perspective on that incredible performance, and removed what we actually saw of it on Inside Pop versus accounts of him doing a similar thing for the cameras at the studio as reported by Jules Seigel.

I'd like to see those quotes also. Reading GSHG, I came away with the opposite feeling. Brian simply Psyched himself to do it. What gets me, is the statement that the cameras recorded Brian singing the entire piece a SECOND time. Where's that footage? 

     

[Dan Lega]

The Boys did everything in their power to make SMiLE happen for Brian even with whatever "problems" they may have had with it or how mistreated they felt by Brian.

Ah, Cam and his "the Beach Boys did everything to make SMiLE happen"-ness.  So Mike's confronting of Van Dyke about the lyrics and making him feel so uncomfortable that the he left the project is doing everything they can to make SMiLE happen?  What about Anderle and Marilyn saying that the Boys were being the very opposite of helpful?  And Brian and Van Dyke have said the same thing.  I guess none of that matters.

Love and merci,  Dan Lega

[drbeachboy]

The Boys did everything in their power to make SMiLE happen for Brian even with whatever "problems" they may have had with it or how mistreated they felt by Brian.

Ah, Cam and his "the Beach Boys did everything to make SMiLE happen"-ness.  So Mike's confronting of Van Dyke about the lyrics and making him feel so uncomfortable that the he left the project is doing everything they can to make SMiLE happen?  What about Anderle and Marilyn saying that the Boys were being the very opposite of helpful?  And Brian and Van Dyke have said the same thing.  I guess none of that matters.

Love and merci,  Dan Lega

One can say that the views taken by Marilyn, Anderle & Parks could be taken from Brian's perspective of things. This debate will go on forever. There is really no objective observer(s) to help give a true actual picture of what went down.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

One can say that the views taken by Marilyn, Anderle & Parks could be taken from Brian's perspective of things.

Maybe, but you'd really be bending reality in order to squirm out of the fact that they made those statements. I think that it is much more plausible that their views reflect their perspective rather than the perspective of someone else.

Besides, I thought you were all about debunking the binary opposition that is Mike vs. Brian. Seems paradoxical when you suggest that anyone who happens to disagree that the Beach Boys tried to help get Smile completed is simply operating as a mouthpiece for Brian.