SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Jason]

Jesus Christ, and I thought previous banned trolls like nobody were bad...

None of this thread is being moved anywhere; in fact it will remain right where it is as an expose of a topic that started off wonderfully and eventually degenerated into ridiculous bickering about the glorification of Brian's drug use and Fishmonk and Bill Tobelman's combined self-hagiography. If anything it should be left here so future generations of Smiley Smilers will sit back and say "wow...what a bunch of drugged out bottom-feeders", much like I'm saying and thinking now.

[Shady]

Why is it trolling if both fishmonk and Bill are expressing their opinions, just wondering?

[Jason]

I didn't say it was trolling, the first statement was a reminiscence of previous actual trolls who contributed nothing worthy to any discussion. Fishmonk and Bill Tobelman, while I very much disagree with their opinions, are actually contributing arguable points, hence the 50+ pages of this thread. If anything I was responding to the general requests for people to move parts of this thread to other areas of the board.

[drbeachboy]

Thanks for clarifying your original statement. I thought that you were comparing both to trolls, as well.

[Jason]

Strictly speaking, if the mods banned people for expressing opinions that few people agree with, I would have been banned more times than the combined total of people banned on this forum - you can take that as me stroking my ego, but I think the track record stands for itself.

[FUN³]

fishmonk and tobelman consistently hand you turds your arses.  for that, i thank you dudes. love you both. oh and that guy that listened to DYDW for 3 hours straight!!  i'd like to read a dictaphone transcription of that moment or mp3; PM dude.

theres alot of self important, closed-minded egos spouting off some serious nonsense that need to drop the bs. some of the things ive read here from some of you is more absurd than the quite sensible fishmonk and tobelman.  open your mind, you might learn a thing or two.

or maybe you would rather torture babies for art's sake?

oh and im loren daro...

[Jeff]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

Jesus, enough with the righteous indignation.  Be disgusted.  Gnash your teeth down to nubs.  Tell yourself you're a good person for being willing to sacrifice the music for the entirely hypothetical drug-free Brian.

But if you're so friggin pure, it seems to me that you should refuse to listen to any music that might have caused Brian any pain, and we all know that Smile did.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Fishmonk, I think we're on the threshold of a new understanding of SMiLE. But I don't think the proper level of understanding will be shared by the general public.

Dude, seriously. Get over yourself. That is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board.

Give it time...it will probably be outdone in a few posts -_-

[Dunderhead]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

There is 0 reason to believe that Brian would have been happier without drugs. That belief just isn't based on anything other than your own personal fantasy. Sure Brian might have been happier, maybe, but there's no way to know that, he could have ended up just as miserable. Often times drug abuse is linked to much deeper problems, Brian's drug use was symptomatic if anything. Remove his drug use and he would still suffer from his underlying problems, and he likely would have found other self destructive behaviors to indulge in.
I think the failure of Brian's career was a really bad thing for Brian and caused him considerable pain, would you spare Brian of that? Should we set up a fund so that when you go back in time you can buy enough copies of Smiley for it go gold so Brian doesn't have to have any pain?

I'm happy that history happened exactly as it did and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Myk Luhv]

Do you feel the same way about Dennis's drug problems?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

There is 0 reason to believe that Brian would have been happier without drugs. That belief just isn't based on anything other than your own personal fantasy. Sure Brian might have been happier, maybe, but there's no way to know that, he could have ended up just as miserable. Often times drug abuse is linked to much deeper problems, Brian's drug use was symptomatic if anything. Remove his drug use and he would still suffer from his underlying problems, and he likely would have found other self destructive behaviors to indulge in.
I think the failure of Brian's career was a really bad thing for Brian and caused him considerable pain, would you spare Brian of that? Should we set up a fund so that when you go back in time you can buy enough copies of Smiley for it go gold so Brian doesn't have to have any pain?

I'm happy that history happened exactly as it did and there's nothing wrong with that.

As my father used to say, you can't tell someone something they don't want to hear... and if you really think there's nothing wrong with being happy about someone enduring years of crushing emotional and mental instability, then you're an extremely unpleasant and twisted individual.

[Dunderhead]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

There is 0 reason to believe that Brian would have been happier without drugs. That belief just isn't based on anything other than your own personal fantasy. Sure Brian might have been happier, maybe, but there's no way to know that, he could have ended up just as miserable. Often times drug abuse is linked to much deeper problems, Brian's drug use was symptomatic if anything. Remove his drug use and he would still suffer from his underlying problems, and he likely would have found other self destructive behaviors to indulge in.
I think the failure of Brian's career was a really bad thing for Brian and caused him considerable pain, would you spare Brian of that? Should we set up a fund so that when you go back in time you can buy enough copies of Smiley for it go gold so Brian doesn't have to have any pain?

I'm happy that history happened exactly as it did and there's nothing wrong with that.

As my father used to say, you can't tell someone something they don't want to hear.

Absolutely meaningless. This isn't an argument, just "i'm right and you're too dumb to realize it". There's nothing to say to it because it's empty arrogance.
What exactly do I not want to hear?

[GoodToMyBaby]

5 bucks says AGD has a well thought out response coming.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The point is it's not up to some fans on a message board to decide how Brian should have lived his life. You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say.
I think if any of you actually COULD go back in time, and you tried to "help" Brian, he'd probably tell you to foder off. You don't think there were people in Brian's life who were worried about him, who voiced their concerns or tried to help him already? If anyone is egotistical it's the people who think they know how Brian should have lived his life.

Entirely so. But the point I was making was that a poster here professing to be a BW fan declared himself happy that Brian's life was, in part, a living hell, and further stated that he wouldn't change it. And I'm in the wrong to be disgusted with that ?

There is 0 reason to believe that Brian would have been happier without drugs. That belief just isn't based on anything other than your own personal fantasy. Sure Brian might have been happier, maybe, but there's no way to know that, he could have ended up just as miserable. Often times drug abuse is linked to much deeper problems, Brian's drug use was symptomatic if anything. Remove his drug use and he would still suffer from his underlying problems, and he likely would have found other self destructive behaviors to indulge in.
I think the failure of Brian's career was a really bad thing for Brian and caused him considerable pain, would you spare Brian of that? Should we set up a fund so that when you go back in time you can buy enough copies of Smiley for it go gold so Brian doesn't have to have any pain?

I'm happy that history happened exactly as it did and there's nothing wrong with that.

As my father used to say, you can't tell someone something they don't want to hear.

Absolutely meaningless. This isn't an argument, just "i'm right and you're too dumb to realize it". There's nothing to say to it because it's empty arrogance.
What exactly do I not want to hear?

Have you noticed how many other posters have come out in support of your view in this matter ? One, and that's seemingly because it, in some odd fashion, supports his own Smile theories. No-one else who's bothered to comment agrees with you.

Regarding my comment, there's no arrogance inherent (if there was, you'd know - I do arrogant pretty damn well): if anyone's being arrogant it's you by ploughing on regardless, secure in the knowledge that you're right and everyone else is wrong ("You don't know what's best for him, you don't know where to draw the line, where moderate use of drugs becomes unhealthy use of drugs, where a regular amount of pain becomes "too much".  It's just nonsense. None of you are qualified to say." - the absence of "we" and "us" is instructive).

Oh, and this - "There is 0 reason to believe that Brian would have been happier without drugs. That belief just isn't based on anything other than your own personal fantasy." - answer me this... did the Brian Wilson of 1971-76 and 1978-91 look happy to you ? I've yet to encounter a really happy junkie. Ah, sorry, I forgot - you're the kind of guy who's happy when someone's life goes to hell in a hand-basket via drugs, and evidently you rate your happiness above that of Brian Wilson. We're back to the old canard, "drugs weren't that bad for Brian". Problem is, Brian would disagree with you.

[Dunderhead]

5 bucks says AGD has a well thought out response coming.

"you see I'm in insider, i know what's reallyyyyyy going on."

I'm not denying that drug abuse is a bad thing. But when you have a drug addiction, that addiction may be part of larger, deeper emotional troubles. I think believing that simply taking the coke away from Brian would have just instantly healed him and turned him into a productive happy human is naive.

[Jason]

I don't think anyone here has implied that taking the drugs away from him would have instantly healed him and turned him into a productive, happy human. The second Landy period is proof of that.

[Andrew G. Doe]

5 bucks says AGD has a well thought out response coming.

"you see I'm in insider, i know what's reallyyyyyy going on."

Normally, I'd let this one pass as I've never claimed to be any kind of insider, but in this instance, I can truthfully say "yes, I do". I've had conversations with many people close to Brian from 1964-2011 (family members, close friends, work associates and the like), some in considerable depth, and every last one said the same thing: they wished to hell he'd either gone easy on the drugs or not used them at all. One of those people happened to be called Brian Wilson.

Granted I've not spoken with Loren Daro, but that's probably just as well for all concerned. 

[smile-holland]

two things:

1. As I think neither of you will give in, can we agree on disagreeing? This starts looking like the Belgium parliament negotiations...

2. Can we PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE get back on topic (as in: the SMiLE box set)?

[bgas]

two things:

1. As I think neither of you will give in, can we agree on disagreeing? This starts looking like the Belgium parliament negotiations...

2. Can we PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE get back on topic (as in: the SMiLE box set)?

Party Pooper! 

[Andrew G. Doe]

two things:

1. As I think neither of you will give in, can we agree on disagreeing? This starts looking like the Belgium parliament negotiations...

2. Can we PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE get back on topic (as in: the SMiLE box set)?

1 - Well he started it ! 

2 - I tried, but Flash Harry derailed it again. 

[smile-holland]

two things:

1. As I think neither of you will give in, can we agree on disagreeing? This starts looking like the Belgium parliament negotiations...

2. Can we PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE get back on topic (as in: the SMiLE box set)?

Party Pooper! 

yeah, I know, moderators can be annoying...

[Dunderhead]

I mean the whole debate got started trying to figure out how LSD fit into the scheme of SMiLE. That couldn't be anymore "on topic".
I really think Brian's interest in psychedelic culture and philosophy is the missing link of SMiLE.

We should just let conversation go where it will. People get upset when discussion doesn't live up to they're own personal standards of what an internet topic should be, but whatever. The real distraction in this thread are the people who come here to complain that they don't like this discussion every couple of posts. I mean, how many active threads do we have right now about SMiLE? Why not just go post in them?

[smile-holland]

I'm not against the drugs issue within this topic per se. But it starts getting boring when the same arguments are being repeated over and over again. And personally, the negative vibe/undertone is bugging me as well.

Not pointing any fingers, just observing it. I mean, the topic's title is about something we have been waiting for for decades.... and by now that's the last thing that is being discussed in this topic.

[Dunderhead]

the same arguments repeating over and over again with noone ever agreeing sounds like smile debate at its finest.

[smile-holland]

the same arguments repeating over and over again with noone ever agreeing sounds like smile debate at its finest.

Yep, but I can't see it making it a fun read.

And I could follow your advise and simply ignore this topic, but being a moderator, I have no choice but keep watching/reading in case we get virtual fistfights here...