SMiLE Sessions box set!

[pixletwin]

Interesting. I rather enjoyed hearing things like the reconstructed One After 909.

[Bicyclerider]

I disagree on "tedious", but I could listen to Smile sessions for hours on end and not get tired of it. I'm far from the norm, though, I've come to accept that...

I'm with you - ten hours of Smile sessions is far from tedious, it's a fascinating document of Brian's creativity and mental state circa 66-67.  I'd prefer a 20 disc set myself.

As for the two singles included with the box set -I'd like to see Heroes (Parts 1 and 2) with the original Capitol sleeve, and Vegetables/Wonderful.

[smile-holland]

Nice to know Mike's a fan of Wonderful too! Poor fella's going to have to choose his words wisely in praising the Smile material from now on.

I vagually remember that the booklet that accompanied the Pet Sounds box went through quite some editing. In fact so much that the release date was delayed with more than a year (I think). And that was Pet Sounds... I sure hope they started early with the writings about SMiLE... 

[The Heartical Don]

Nice to know Mike's a fan of Wonderful too! Poor fella's going to have to choose his words wisely in praising the Smile material from now on.

I vagually remember that the booklet that accompanied the Pet Sounds box went through quite some editing. In fact so much that the release date was delayed with more than a year (I think). And that was Pet Sounds... I sure hope they started early with the writings about SMiLE... 

Oh, don't worry. Brian is busy writing them as we speak. Together with Todd Gold.

[The Shift]

Nice to know Mike's a fan of Wonderful too! Poor fella's going to have to choose his words wisely in praising the Smile material from now on.

I vagually remember that the booklet that accompanied the Pet Sounds box went through quite some editing. In fact so much that the release date was delayed with more than a year (I think). And that was Pet Sounds... I sure hope they started early with the writings about SMiLE... 

Oh, don't worry. Brian is busy writing them as we speak. Together with Todd Gold.

... and edited by Mike.  Al offered to proof-read the edit, but no-one wants to wait that long!

[The Heartical Don]

Nice to know Mike's a fan of Wonderful too! Poor fella's going to have to choose his words wisely in praising the Smile material from now on.

I vagually remember that the booklet that accompanied the Pet Sounds box went through quite some editing. In fact so much that the release date was delayed with more than a year (I think). And that was Pet Sounds... I sure hope they started early with the writings about SMiLE... 

Oh, don't worry. Brian is busy writing them as we speak. Together with Todd Gold.

... and edited by Mike.  Al offered to proof-read the edit, but no-one wants to wait that long!

I hear he's still trying to mail a postcard from somewhere...

[JohnMill]

I disagree on "tedious", but I could listen to Smile sessions for hours on end and not get tired of it. I'm far from the norm, though, I've come to accept that...

The interesting point is how to shave off hours of material (at least a dozen discs' worth, perhaps)  to present a few discs' worth of listenable material - I think Pet Sounds Sessions had a nice balance, while the Beatles' Anthology, specifically how they combined takes, worked in some cases but didn't feel right overall. In these cases we knew a chunk of what they had to work with, so the end results were easy to compare to the raw stuff.

"Anthology 2" in particular with the reconstructions of "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Penny Lane" and "A Day In The Life" was a particular abortion.  I didn't dig the ANTHOLOGY project that much at all.  Perhaps the only thing worse is what Springsteen does to his archival sets and that is basically re-record his unreleased material.  I refuse to pick up his "Promise" cd.  I'd much rather listen to the "Darkness Sessions" on bootleg as they sounded in the seventies.  

I'm glad that The Beach Boys seem to be one of the few bands that get the archival release thing right by presenting the material as it exists on the original tapes.  When they are edits made they are tasteful (such as the work done on the PSS) and not heavy-handed (like the other archival releases I just detailed).

I agree, I think I'm more hopeful in this case because Pet Sounds Sessions struck a nice balance and handled the edits very well. I like having some of the super-rare Beatles material on the set, but for me the worst was "Anthology 1" when they crossfaded interviews and spoken word clips into the actual songs, which I thought was a horrible choice and one which they abandoned after volume 1, thankfully. Why they wouldn't just present the full tracks without a Paul McCartney interview snippet at the front, who the hell knows what they were thinking.

And re-recording or placing "new" overdubs on an archival track - blasphemy, plain and simple. It's blurring the line between a new release and a historical release, and there should be a definite line before fans cough up the big money to buy these historical sets.

I think the answer to why they went with that method of crossfading interviews into tracks on "Anthology 1" was due to the fact that the original concept of the "Anthology" albums were that they were to be almost soundtracks or companion pieces to the "Anthology" television special.  So that is probably the reason why the first volume was almost presented as a running documentary.  Thankfully as you said they abandoned that concept after the first volume.  I'm glad that the "Purple Chick" Beatles bootlegs that came out a few years ago all but rendered the Anthologies obsolete.  If it wasn't for the nice artwork and the fact that I'm a completest by nature, I'd probably have gotten rid of them by now.  I can never see myself listening to them again that's for sure.  Strangely, I don't so much mind the interviews and spoken word segments on "Hawthorne" and feel that they actually enhance that package quite a bit.  I guess it all boils down to how it is presented.

I agree with you on the re-recording stuff as well.  There are some tasteful ways of going about this stuff but most artists take things too far and try to re-create/re-record the outtakes to make them sound more commercial.  I don't mind adding a guitar solo (Traveling Wilburys - "Maxine") or drums (Lenny Kravitz - several tracks on Tom Petty's "Playback") to finish off an unfinished piece of music but to re-create the track...that lacks taste.

[JohnMill]

Interesting. I rather enjoyed hearing things like the reconstructed One After 909.

That one at least made sense as there wasn't a satisfactory complete outtake available of that song from the 3-5-63 session.   On that track he basically just completed The Beatles work for them using an edit piece they would've probably used themselves had they released the song back in 1963.  So in my opinion that was the one edit that Emerick made on the entire set that made actual sense.  There are scores of other edits he did for the "Anthology" (well actually he initially did them for the "Sessions" project) that don't make any sense at all.

Anyhow back to The Beach Boys.  I've had a few days to mull this all over in my head and I'm getting pretty excited about this.  One thing that I think is going to be cool about this is unlike when the GV box came out or the PSS box came out we've now had the SOT sets to mull over for over a decade.  In particular when it comes to "SMiLE" with the SOT sets and the "Secret Smiles" and everything else in between we basically have the raw materials already in our hands that this set is going to be culled from.  So that in enough of itself to me is a unique experience, just to hear what they feel is as Linett terms them "the best versions". 

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

Another thing I'm really looking forward to is the sound quality.  The SOT stuff sounds great but a lot of the "best versions" such as the harpsichord version of "Wonderful" are missing entirely from those packages and only exist on the VigOtone set or the GV box set both which sound murky by today's SQ standards.  I'd love to hear this stuff brought up to speed SQ wise where everything sounds up to par.

[Roger Ryan]

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

It's been generally accepted that all of the SOT issues date back to copies made in the 80s. The editing and manufacturing of the discs didn't happen until the late 90s. I'm sure this is what Mark is referring to.

[The Heartical Don]

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

It's been generally accepted that all of the SOT issues date back to copies made in the 80s. The editing and manufacturing of the discs didn't happen until the late 90s. I'm sure this is what Mark is referring to.

When was 'An American Band' filmed? Because according to what I know, that was the time after which the SOT material was 'borrowed', on video tape.

[buddhahat]

Also, regading the BW.COM press release, the following looks promising as far as using Frank Holmes' artwork is concerned:

Parks also introduced Beat-Pop artist Frank Holmes to create album sleeve art and a booklet interpreting the album’s James Joyce-mode lyrics.

Ummm... all that says is, VDP introduced Frank to Brian back in '66: anything else is wishful thinking. Granted, to release a Smile set without the iconic cover would bring down a richly deserved shitstorm on Capitol's head... but we're talking The Beach Boys here. Expect, well, not so much the unexpected as the flat out dumbass.

After I posted that I realised that both the thumbnail to the press release on BW.com and the 78 releases use the smile font, but non of the artwork. This could be a bad sign. However why make reference to Frank Holmes in the press release if they have no intention of using the original artwork? The only obstacle I could imagine in them using the original artwork would be Frank's fee, and he has a right to ask a reasonable amount for the use after you factor how much publicity this project is likely to generate and how crucial a part his artwork will play.

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

I'd be surprised if Alan and Mark weren't up to speed with the latest boots considering the amount they peruse this board. Hopefully anyway.

[Roger Ryan]

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

It's been generally accepted that all of the SOT issues date back to copies made in the 80s. The editing and manufacturing of the discs didn't happen until the late 90s. I'm sure this is what Mark is referring to.

When was 'An American Band' filmed? Because according to what I know, that was the time after which the SOT material was 'borrowed', on video tape.

AN AMERICAN BAND was first released in 1985, so it would have been in production for two or three years before this. I believe Alan Boyd has commented in the past regarding the idea that the SOT releases came from tapes copied for this documentary. Given that he has worked and is working directly with Mark Linett, I'm sure the latter is well aware of what material has appeared on the boots.

EDIT: Or given that Mark frequents this forum, I'm sure he'll take note of your concern 

Hi Mark - I wish you the best in your grand project!

[The Heartical Don]

I must admit I was dismayed a bit by Linett's comments about the "SMiLE" bootlegs being made in the eighties.  I'm assuming that was just a memory laspe or an offhanded remark on his part as I hope he's savvy enough to realize that the most significant "SMiLE" related bootlegs came out in the late ninties-middle of the last decade.  It would be upsetting if he is that far out of the bootleg loop that he isn't aware of the massive amounts of "SMiLE" session work that has been booted over the past fifteen years or so.

It's been generally accepted that all of the SOT issues date back to copies made in the 80s. The editing and manufacturing of the discs didn't happen until the late 90s. I'm sure this is what Mark is referring to.

When was 'An American Band' filmed? Because according to what I know, that was the time after which the SOT material was 'borrowed', on video tape.

AN AMERICAN BAND was first released in 1985, so it would have been in production for two or three years before this. I believe Alan Boyd has commented in the past regarding the idea that the SOT releases came from tapes copied for this documentary. Given that he has worked and is working directly with Mark Linett, I'm sure the latter is well aware of what material has appeared on the boots.

EDIT: Or given that Mark frequents this forum, I'm sure he'll take note of your concern  

Hi Mark - I wish you the best in your grand project!

Thanks -

so then Mark indeed was referring to the Unsurpassed Masters stuff.

[Chris Brown]

I've been sick and basically out of commission since Friday, but excitedly doing my best to keep up with the flurry of activity around here!  I guess I'm still stuck in skeptic mode to a degree - I'll only truly believe it when it's in my hands.  Still, it's hard to not be incredibly excited about the prospect of having this music released in the best fidelity on a properly authorized release.  Obviously a lot of questions remain - the biggest in my mind being how much has been collected for this project that we haven't already heard? 

As others have said, though, I have total faith in Alan and Mark, and I have no doubt that they will present this material in the best possible manner and treat it with the respect that it deserves.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Also, regading the BW.COM press release, the following looks promising as far as using Frank Holmes' artwork is concerned:

Parks also introduced Beat-Pop artist Frank Holmes to create album sleeve art and a booklet interpreting the album’s James Joyce-mode lyrics.

Ummm... all that says is, VDP introduced Frank to Brian back in '66: anything else is wishful thinking. Granted, to release a Smile set without the iconic cover would bring down a richly deserved shitstorm on Capitol's head... but we're talking The Beach Boys here. Expect, well, not so much the unexpected as the flat out dumbass.

After I posted that I realised that both the thumbnail to the press release on BW.com and the 78 releases use the smile font, but non of the artwork. This could be a bad sign. However why make reference to Frank Holmes in the press release if they have no intention of using the original artwork? The only obstacle I could imagine in them using the original artwork would be Frank's fee, and he has a right to ask a reasonable amount for the use after you factor how much publicity this project is likely to generate and how crucial a part his artwork will play.

Something else to factor in - Frank was never paid for his work back in 1966.

Also, here would be a fine place to mention that, being as I was one of the main proponents of the SOT material being 'borrowed' during the making of American Band by a specific person, I based what I was saying on what I'd been told by a (then)highly respected collector and historian regarding who, where and when. Turns out I was being mislead (to be charitable - lied to, if you're not) by this individual, who has since fallen from grace with a mighty thud.

[The Heartical Don]

I've been sick and basically out of commission since Friday, but excitedly doing my best to keep up with the flurry of activity around here!  I guess I'm still stuck in skeptic mode to a degree - I'll only truly believe it when it's in my hands.  Still, it's hard to not be incredibly excited about the prospect of having this music released in the best fidelity on a properly authorized release.  Obviously a lot of questions remain - the biggest in my mind being how much has been collected for this project that we haven't already heard?  

As others have said, though, I have total faith in Alan and Mark, and I have no doubt that they will present this material in the best possible manner and treat it with the respect that it deserves.

Sorry to hear that Chris. About the sets: more and more I think that they'll be great. And worth buying both for the collector. The double disk set won't be that pricey; and perhaps there's a bit of difference in sequencing, or something? Anyway... the 4 disk/2 LP/2 single/ hardcover book really looks to be the real thing that we were hoping for. How many copies will there be pressed of that one?


Moreover: if the basic tapes or hard disks are finalized, they should be driven to the pressing plant by Brink's, surrounded by 20 Hummers with expert SWAT teams, and a group of about 6 Strike Fighters hovering above the whole fleet. Nothing less will suffice.

[juggler]

After I posted that I realised that both the thumbnail to the press release on BW.com and the 78 releases use the smile font, but non of the artwork. This could be a bad sign. However why make reference to Frank Holmes in the press release if they have no intention of using the original artwork? The only obstacle I could imagine in them using the original artwork would be Frank's fee, and he has a right to ask a reasonable amount for the use after you factor how much publicity this project is likely to generate and how crucial a part his artwork will play.

I tend to agree...   Why even mention Frank Holmes if you're not intending to use his stuff?  It's not 100%, but it's a good sign.  After all, it's hardly as if the press release is intended as a complete history of Smile and a roster of all the participants.  There are plenty of bit players whose names don't appear in this press release.

Other thoughts on the Capitol press release...

* To me, this makes it more real.  Billboard (and other magazines) have been wrong before.  But official word from Capitol that Smile is coming out?  I don't think there's been anything like that since 1967.

* Unlike the Billboard articles, the press release makes it sound like the project is done.  "With the full participation of original Beach Boys Al Jardine, Mike Love, and Brian Wilson, Capitol/EMI has collected and compiled the definitive collection, 'The SMiLE Sessions,' for worldwide release this year in multiple physical and digital configurations."    Note the use of past tense: "... has collected and compiled..."   A couple possibilities...  (1) Capitol is exaggerating the completeness of the work that has been done.... OR (2) The Billboard interview with Mark Linett was done a while ago (perhaps after Al initially spilled the beans?)  and shelved for a few weeks until Capitol gave the green light?

* Great to see the inclusion of quotes from Dennis and Carl.

* "I recently played some of my personal acetates..."  Gotta love Al.  

* The press release mentions a "global release date" (singular) which implies that all configurations will be released the same day.  Who knows if that's what will happen, but it's an interesting approach.  One might expect the 2-cd set to be released first, with the deluxe package following weeks or months later.  Will there be a reason for us to buy the double-CD if it's merely a subset of the box set?

* Interesting how strongly the press release suggests that the creation of Brother Records and the BBs' litigiousness were to blame for the album's original non-release.  It's almost like, "Hey, don't blame us.  These guys love to sue people..."

[Les P]

It's almost like, "Hey, don't blame us.  These guys love to sue people..."

 

By the way, did anyone notice in the press release the consistent usage of the lower case "i" in SMiLE?  Even if for some reason they don't use Frank Holmes' artwork (I agree that would be dumbass), they certainly seem to have decided to use the same font/logotype.

[Chris Brown]

I've been sick and basically out of commission since Friday, but excitedly doing my best to keep up with the flurry of activity around here!  I guess I'm still stuck in skeptic mode to a degree - I'll only truly believe it when it's in my hands.  Still, it's hard to not be incredibly excited about the prospect of having this music released in the best fidelity on a properly authorized release.  Obviously a lot of questions remain - the biggest in my mind being how much has been collected for this project that we haven't already heard?  

As others have said, though, I have total faith in Alan and Mark, and I have no doubt that they will present this material in the best possible manner and treat it with the respect that it deserves.

Sorry to hear that Chris. About the sets: more and more I think that they'll be great. And worth buying both for the collector. The double disk set won't be that pricey; and perhaps there's a bit of difference in sequencing, or something? Anyway... the 4 disk/2 LP/2 single/ hardcover book really looks to be the real thing that we were hoping for. How many copies will there be pressed of that one?


Moreover: if the basic tapes or hard disks are finalized, they should be driven to the pressing plant by Brink's, surrounded by 20 Hummers with expert SWAT teams, and a group of about 6 Strike Fighters hovering above the whole fleet. Nothing less will suffice.

Yeah I'm quite curious about the differences in the available sets as well.  Like you said, from the sounds of things it looks like the 4 CD/2 LP/2 single/hardcover book "limited edition" is going to be the most comprehensive package available, so naturally that's the one I'm sure I'll be looking at when the time comes.  Even aside from containing the most music, the accompanying book could be really spectacular if done right.  I just hope we don't get into a situation where there is material that's exclusive to each package. 

[Les P]

I just hope we don't get into a situation where there is material that's exclusive to each package. 

I have mixed feelings about that...on one hand, it would mean more $$$.  On the other, it would mean more Smile material.  Mmmm...Smile...got to have...

[PhilCohen]

Interesting. I rather enjoyed hearing things like the reconstructed One After 909.

It should be noted that, while there were a number of what Beatles fans termed "Outfakes" in "The Beatles Anthology" series, that "One After 909" wasn't one of them. The take broke down at one point(as I recall, shortly after the guitar solo started), and the group then recorded an edit piece(performing the song starting shortly before the guitar solo) with the idea that the edit piece was intended to be spliced onto the take which had broken down, to create a complete performance. The song, as presented on "Anthology One" is as The Beatles intended.
                        The Beach Boys' version of "Fire"("Mrs. O'Leary's Cow") was also created in two segments, intended from the outset to be edited together.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Here's my guess at the release date: before the 2012 Grammy cutoff, which is I think early October.  Gotta be a shoe-in for the Historical award.

Unless, of course, there's a New Vaudeville Band 1966 sessions box due this summer.

[onkster]

I bet I can guess who the "fallen" expert is, AGD! Hmmm, fallen, or...domino'd?

[TdHabib]

This boxset could, in theory, help the BB critical appreciation and restore their standing as one of the best bands, at least that's what I'm hoping. I also hope there is as much integrity in both the selection, restoration and liner notes as there has been in this thread. Hope, hope, hope. This is also the most excited I've been since the double-punch of POB and TLOS, and before that...yikes...let's not go there...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I bet I can guess who the "fallen" expert is, AGD! Hmmm, fallen, or...domino'd?

If you're alluding to Mr. Priore - you're so wrong. Not to mention spectacularly unobservant.