SMiLE Sessions box set!

[37!ws]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

[18thofMay]

I wonder... will the box finally settle the old argument about exactly how (un)finished Smile was ?

Yes?

[Jeff]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

[puni puni]

I'm not gonna buy it cuz Smile is krap

[rab2591]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

Indeed. Nothing will ever be settled with this album.

Personally, I'm not looking for anything to be settled, I just can't wait for some properly mixed SMiLE songs!

[sockittome]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

[18thofMay]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

He also said that he burnt the tapes, junked them..Whatever
He has said many things that were not accurate or were convenient at the time

[Jeff]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

He also said that he burnt the tapes, junked them..Whatever
He has said many things that were not accurate or were convenient at the time

Yep.  Brian's also said several times that Smile is "inappropriate" music.  Since BWPS "Is" Smile, then clearly the militants must not ever listen to BWPS.  Right guys?  Or do you only follow what Brian says when it suits your argument?

[rab2591]

Jesus people, lighten up.

I think my point in the other thread was the 'idea' (bicycle trips, elements, spirituality) of SMiLE was carried out in Brian's version (which he calls the finished version of SMiLE). Call it whatever ya'll want. Listen to whatever ya'll want. Personally, I love AlternateBrianWilsonPresentsSMiLE the best. I love the vintage sound, and the Beach Boys are the best people to have carried out the job. However I also love the finished sound of Brian's version (and his vocals on Surf's Up are, imo, some of the best he's ever done period.

Whomever likes what, the music is what matters.

[Jeff]

If the Smile Sessions is released on Nov. 1, as apparently now scheduled, will the militants wait until early next year to buy it, since that's when Brian said it will be released?

[doinnothin]

The quote that's stuck with me through all the build up about this boxset is the "It doesn't have to be perfect, just honest" inscription that was in the groove of one of the recent singles (can't remember if it was Cabinessence or H&V).

It makes me think that we're going to get a warts-and-all version instead of a whitewash, which is obviously exciting. So the question is, what are the warts?

- Are we going to get humor sections?
- Are we going to hear arguments and drug use in the session excerpts?
- Will there be unbooted vocals where the boys were too high to really pull it off?
- Are there tracks/sections that we've been led to believe don't exist, but are just so embarassingly bad that Brian or whoever else hid them in shame?

It sounds like what we're going to get will be something that will make us rethink its greatness. Afterall, if being honest would have made it perfect, there wouldn't have been a need for the quote. It sounds like what we've heard so far has been a whitewash of what the album would really have been and we might need to prepare ourselves for some harsh truth ...

I'm still excited as all hell though.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I have to disagree, when a SOLO PIANO DEMO can blow us away, imagine what a full on set of semi-finished tracks can do!

[Ebb and Flow]

The quote that's stuck with me through all the build up about this boxset is the "It doesn't have to be perfect, just honest" inscription that was in the groove of one of the recent singles (can't remember if it was Cabinessence or H&V).

It makes me think that we're going to get a warts-and-all version instead of a whitewash, which is obviously exciting. So the question is, what are the warts?

- Are we going to hear arguments and drug use in the session excerpts?

Hard to say.  Everything they put on the box will have to be approved by the group.  I'm not sure if an official "warts and all" release is really possible under those circumstances.  Food for thought: to the best of my knowledge they've never officially released a session excerpt with profanity in it, let alone arguments.  Also...vocal overdub sessions aren't commonly granted an official release. "Our Favorite Recording Sessions" on All Summer Long and the "Wish That He Could Stay" excerpt on Hawthorne, CA are the only ones I can think of.

[Ron]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

Indeed. Nothing will ever be settled with this album.

Personally, I'm not looking for anything to be settled, I just can't wait for some properly mixed SMiLE songs!

The only thing this album will be is some unreleased sessions that were done in 1966/67.  I don't even see how people can argue that BWPS isn't the finished SMiLE; when Brian's still alive and produced the album himself.  With the original co-writer no doubt.  Only difference is the back up band.  I know people hate to hear that because it pisses on their parade, but it is what it is.

[18thofMay]

I have said it before and I will say it again!! BWPS is a version of SMiLE constructed for a live performance, it is not the SMiLE. Someone in the band said that to me once!!

[Pretty Funky]

  I don't even see how people can argue that BWPS isn't the finished SMiLE;

[/quote]



Said as much in 04 myself. Tidal way of opinion heading your way Ron!

[Ebb and Flow]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

Indeed. Nothing will ever be settled with this album.

Personally, I'm not looking for anything to be settled, I just can't wait for some properly mixed SMiLE songs!

The only thing this album will be is some unreleased sessions that were done in 1966/67.  I don't even see how people can argue that BWPS isn't the finished SMiLE; when Brian's still alive and produced the album himself.  With the original co-writer no doubt.  Only difference is the back up band.  I know people hate to hear that because it pisses on their parade, but it is what it is.

BWPS is an interpretation of material that was never completed as originally intended by its composers.  IMO there is no "finished SMiLE" and there never will be.  All BWPS and the upcoming box provide are glimpses of what could have been.

[theCOD]

Brian Wilson recorded and released SMiLE in 2004 and that's the end of the story. We're not going to get a SMiLE more authentic or complete than that. There is no THE SMiLE.

BWPS is an interpretation of material that was never completed as originally intended by its composers.  IMO there is no "finished SMiLE" and there never will be.  All BWPS and the upcoming box provide are glimpses of what could have been.

There were no original intentions other than to record some music that sounds good and release it. I think that was accomplished in 2004. By your logic, the '67 H&V single only provides glimpses of what could have been. Considering the way Brian was working then, anything could have been.

[dmcguire70]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

He also said that he burnt the tapes, junked them..Whatever
He has said many things that were not accurate or were convenient at the time

I don't think Brian ever said he burned the tapes, that's a bit of an urban legend.I remember watching the Endless Harmony documentary and Brian said this,
and i quote,
"I junked it, I thought it was inappropriate music to make"
Junked could have many meanings such as  "Put in the vault"

[Ebb and Flow]

There were no original intentions other than to record some music that sounds good and release it. I think that was accomplished in 2004.

The intention was to release a Beach Boys album between the fall of 1966 and Spring of 1967.  That never happened.  Once VDP left the project it was doomed to be unfinished as originally intended.

By your logic, the '67 H&V single only provides glimpses of what could have been.

And IMO that's a totally fair assessment.  The H&V single contains many elements that would not have been present on a version made a few months earlier.

Considering the way Brian was working then, anything could have been.

While Brian certainly recorded in fragments, the songs themselves had a structure and were often labeled as "bridge", "chorus 1" etc. on the track logs.  H&V was the only song that seemed to have no concrete structure...and Brian basically drove himself crazy during the early part of '67 trying to arrange it to his liking.  The other songs seemed to have been a few vocal overdubs away from completion.  I suspect how much of SMiLE Brian had in the can will be answered by the contents of the box.

[Paulos]

The quote that's stuck with me through all the build up about this boxset is the "It doesn't have to be perfect, just honest" inscription that was in the groove of one of the recent singles (can't remember if it was Cabinessence or H&V).

It makes me think that we're going to get a warts-and-all version instead of a whitewash, which is obviously exciting. So the question is, what are the warts?

- Are we going to get humor sections?
- Are we going to hear arguments and drug use in the session excerpts?
- Will there be unbooted vocals where the boys were too high to really pull it off?
- Are there tracks/sections that we've been led to believe don't exist, but are just so embarassingly bad that Brian or whoever else hid them in shame?

It sounds like what we're going to get will be something that will make us rethink its greatness. Afterall, if being honest would have made it perfect, there wouldn't have been a need for the quote. It sounds like what we've heard so far has been a whitewash of what the album would really have been and we might need to prepare ourselves for some harsh truth ...

I'm still excited as all hell though.

You could be right you know, there are 4 discs to be filled up after all.

[Steve Mayo]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

He also said that he burnt the tapes, junked them..Whatever
He has said many things that were not accurate or were convenient at the time

I don't think Brian ever said he burned the tapes, that's a bit of an urban legend.I remember watching the Endless Harmony documentary and Brian said this,
and i quote,
"I junked it, I thought it was inappropriate music to make"
Junked could have many meanings such as  "Put in the vault"

brian has said many times he "destroyed" the fire tapes and other tracks. "erased" vocals. "destroyed" and "erased" as in...they no longer exist.
see articles in the thread   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.100.html
especially post 102 of that thread..page 47 in said post.
"destroyed" and "erased" can not mean "put in the vault"

[Micha]

There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

If the Smile Sessions is released on Nov. 1, as apparently now scheduled, will the militants wait until early next year to buy it, since that's when Brian said it will be released?

I don't understand why you are so angry just because some posters here appreciate the artistic achievement that BWPS is. None of us say it is "the" SMiLE. We say it is the finished SMiLE. We don't claim the 1966/67 sessions are worth less or even worthless. IMHO the old sessions sound way better for the way they were produced and the vocal blend of a group I happen to love. And I will be buying the box the day ma record shop receives it and then enjoy listening to it (unless something like an accident occurs that leaves me deaf or whatever).

And calling someone who happens to be of a slightly other opinion than yours who isn't convinced by your arguments "militant" and then pout is pretty childish.

[dmcguire70]

No matter what, it'll never settle the argument, unless this box set is going to have every single scrap of Smile music rumored and known to exist.

Even then it wouldn't settle things.  There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

We haven't.  Brian told us.

He also said that he burnt the tapes, junked them..Whatever
He has said many things that were not accurate or were convenient at the time

I don't think Brian ever said he burned the tapes, that's a bit of an urban legend.I remember watching the Endless Harmony documentary and Brian said this,
and i quote,
"I junked it, I thought it was inappropriate music to make"
Junked could have many meanings such as  "Put in the vault"

brian has said many times he "destroyed" the fire tapes and other tracks. "erased" vocals. "destroyed" and "erased" as in...they no longer exist.
see articles in the thread   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.100.html
especially post 102 of that thread..page 47 in said post.
"destroyed" and "erased" can not mean "put in the vault"

For many years, it was rumored that Wilson had tried to burn the tapes of this session, but that was not the case, although he did abandon the "Fire" piece for good. No recording of anything but the introduction to the original "Fire" tapes has been released, nor is it likely to be, though most of the song was heard on the 1985 Beach Boys television special (and subsequent VHS and DVD release), The Beach Boys: An American Band. It has also been noted, in several accounts, that Parks deliberately stayed away from the session (during which Wilson encouraged the musicians to wear toy firemen hats), and that he later described Wilson's behavior as "regressive".        Wikipedia

[rab2591]

There doubtlessly will be a contingent of militants who won't buy the Smile Sessions at all, because only BWPS "Is" Smile, and the original sessions were just an "idea," and who are we to tell Brian what Smile is, etc., etc.

If the Smile Sessions is released on Nov. 1, as apparently now scheduled, will the militants wait until early next year to buy it, since that's when Brian said it will be released?

I don't understand why you are so angry just because some posters here appreciate the artistic achievement that BWPS is. None of us say it is "the" SMiLE. We say it is the finished SMiLE. We don't claim the 1966/67 sessions are worth less or even worthless. IMHO the old sessions sound way better for the way they were produced and the vocal blend of a group I happen to love. And I will be buying the box the day ma record shop receives it and then enjoy listening to it (unless something like an accident occurs that leaves me deaf or whatever).

And calling someone who happens to be of a slightly other opinion than yours who isn't convinced by your arguments "militant" and then pout is pretty childish.

Honestly. And I love how we're considered 'militants' - really reminds me of the petty BS that Phil put us through.

We just have different opinions about fantastic music - yet people are blowing this way out of proportion. Whatev.