SMiLE Sessions box set!

[tansen]

I am all for differing opinions but I do think the raking of Fishmonk and Phil over the coals has gone a little bit over the edge. So their opinions are not in agreement with everyone's proven "facts". This is something called LIFE. If you're coming on here and can't take a dissenting opinion, no matter how unbelievably asinine it may be, might I suggest leaving the computer behind for a while? This is a BEACH BOYS message board. We wouldn't be able to agree on what day it is let alone the specifics of anything Smile-related no matter how hard we tried.

You said it. Leave the nay-sayers alone, let them have their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to agree, or even reply. I'll tell you it is MUCH more frustrating reading all the bickering over Phil and Fishmonks pessimism, than actually reading their posts.

And come on Andrew, seriously, you come off as being some kind of Gestapo at times here, correcting and criticizing other people's posts if they are not coherent with how you see things (whether it's language or pessimism). I know you're a great guy, but you don't exactly always show it here IMO.

[smokeythebear]

I am all for differing opinions but I do think the raking of Fishmonk and Phil over the coals has gone a little bit over the edge. So their opinions are not in agreement with everyone's proven "facts". This is something called LIFE. If you're coming on here and can't take a dissenting opinion, no matter how unbelievably asinine it may be, might I suggest leaving the computer behind for a while? This is a BEACH BOYS message board. We wouldn't be able to agree on what day it is let alone the specifics of anything Smile-related no matter how hard we tried.

You said it. Leave the nay-sayers alone, let them have their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to agree, or even reply. I'll tell you it is MUCH more frustrating reading all the bickering over Phil and Fishmonks pessimism, than actually reading their posts.

And come on Andrew, seriously, you come off as being some kind of Gestapo at times here, correcting and criticizing other people's posts if they are not coherent with how you see things (whether it's language or pessimism). I know you're a great guy, but you don't exactly always show it here IMO.

I see your point but i rather step up for AGD here, as a general rule in life you get all the info and facts and take them into consideration before stating something as fact otherwise you will get a remark or debate or stand corrected, if you dont know or just assuming post a question instead and you will get help. If that hurts...well gee it´s life...

When i was in the hardcore scene of The Doors a couple of years we had managment coming out stating that that they had the original tapes for a show called the Matrix, it took alot of AGD´s and digging to prove them otherwise. Gestapos are needed, and to be honest i find AGD´s posts more informative than  offensive.

[Andrew G. Doe]

There are ways to voice your disapproval of Phil and The Artist Formerly Known As Fishmonk's opinions without resulting to base insults. C'mon, guys. It seems once a week everyone around here becomes jerks. It makes this board frustrating to read.

I object to that sweeping generalization - it's a semi-permanent condition with me. 

[tansen]

I am all for differing opinions but I do think the raking of Fishmonk and Phil over the coals has gone a little bit over the edge. So their opinions are not in agreement with everyone's proven "facts". This is something called LIFE. If you're coming on here and can't take a dissenting opinion, no matter how unbelievably asinine it may be, might I suggest leaving the computer behind for a while? This is a BEACH BOYS message board. We wouldn't be able to agree on what day it is let alone the specifics of anything Smile-related no matter how hard we tried.

You said it. Leave the nay-sayers alone, let them have their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to agree, or even reply. I'll tell you it is MUCH more frustrating reading all the bickering over Phil and Fishmonks pessimism, than actually reading their posts.

And come on Andrew, seriously, you come off as being some kind of Gestapo at times here, correcting and criticizing other people's posts if they are not coherent with how you see things (whether it's language or pessimism). I know you're a great guy, but you don't exactly always show it here IMO.

I see your point but i rather step up for AGD here, as a general rule in life you get all the info and facts and take them into consideration before stating something as fact otherwise you will get a remark or debate or stand corrected, if you dont know or just assuming post a question instead and you will get help. If that hurts...well gee it´s life...

When i was in the hardcore scene of The Doors a couple of years we had managment coming out stating that that they had the original tapes for a show called the Matrix, it took alot of AGD´s and digging to prove them otherwise. Gestapos are needed, and to be honest i find AGD´s posts more informative than  offensive.

Like I said, Andrew is great, and I've known him for years, but I just think as a general rule there are better ways of expressing one's opinion, you know, different ways of writing something, to sound 'nicer'.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sure, I'll admit to being a bit more biased in favor of Fishmonk and Phil because somehow or another their viewpoints have been considered "less worthy". I've been in that boat before (with much worse consequences) if you've ever read my criticism of Brian. You can disagree all you want. We're not here for phony complacency. But carrying out the equivalent of a cyber lynch mob on two folks because you disagree? That's a bit too far.

Problem I have with Phil is because what he's saying is wrong and because he's a downer into the bargain. That's all. If he'll stop pissing on everyone's fire on a regular schedule, we'll stop telling him to STFU. Rocket science it ain't. Like I said, he & Flash Harry know nothing. Some folk here and elsewhere do know what is going on: I defer to them.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The reason that I think of many of you guys as "dreamers" is this: let's say, that the "Smile" box doesn't get released this year(or in 2012), yet Capitol doesn't officially cancel the release. Then you guys(forever the optimists) will still be here in 2013, insisting that the release is imminent, and anyone who doesn't agree with you is pessimistic, impatient or a spoiled brat demanding instant gratification. I also think that the discussions of increasingly unrealistic fantasies about Smile's history, is a desperate attempt to fan the embers of a discussion that would otherwise die out.

'Scuse me, but I've never, and as I recall no-one else here has ever, suggested that the release is 'imminent': unless the quasi-semi-official goalpost of October 4th is moved again, I might start hinting that come mid-September. I'm perfectly content to let the discussion die, but y'know, someone always comes along rending their sackcloth, shedding ashes and wailing "it's not going to happen, no-one's telling me anything", and that shatters my little bubble of peace.

So, Phil & Flash, genuine offer on my part (I won't presume to speak for anyone else): you cut the weeping and wailing and I'll cease with the "STFU" responses. If nothing's happened by 11.59.59pm Pacific on 12/31/11, or Capitol have issued the "sorry guys" release, then I'll hold my hands up and say "was wrong". Until then, blessed silence on this specific topic. Deal ? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Like I said, Andrew is great, and I've known him for years, but I just think as a general rule there are better ways of expressing one's opinion, you know, different ways of writing something, to sound 'nicer'.

True, but sometimes 'nicer' doesn't work. Trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear would make the Pope swear sometimes. Also, and maybe I'm wrong here, this is a hard-core BB/BW MB, and the best one still standing, thus I assume a certain level of knowledge. Maybe that's just me being overoptimistic. Opinions ?

[Loaf]

Opinions ?

Yes, like arseholes, aren't they?

I'm happy to wait for the boxset. I've waited all this time, what's a few more months.

[PhilCohen]

I am all for differing opinions but I do think the raking of Fishmonk and Phil over the coals has gone a little bit over the edge. So their opinions are not in agreement with everyone's proven "facts". This is something called LIFE. If you're coming on here and can't take a dissenting opinion, no matter how unbelievably asinine it may be, might I suggest leaving the computer behind for a while? This is a BEACH BOYS message board. We wouldn't be able to agree on what day it is let alone the specifics of anything Smile-related no matter how hard we tried.

You said it. Leave the nay-sayers alone, let them have their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to agree, or even reply. I'll tell you it is MUCH more frustrating reading all the bickering over Phil and Fishmonks pessimism, than actually reading their posts.

And come on Andrew, seriously, you come off as being some kind of Gestapo at times here, correcting and criticizing other people's posts if they are not coherent with how you see things (whether it's language or pessimism). I know you're a great guy, but you don't exactly always show it here IMO.

I see your point but i rather step up for AGD here, as a general rule in life you get all the info and facts and take them into consideration before stating something as fact otherwise you will get a remark or debate or stand corrected, if you dont know or just assuming post a question instead and you will get help. If that hurts...well gee it´s life...

When i was in the hardcore scene of The Doors a couple of years we had managment coming out stating that that they had the original tapes for a show called the Matrix, it took alot of AGD´s and digging to prove them otherwise. Gestapos are needed, and to be honest i find AGD´s posts more informative than  offensive.

By the way, The Doors management later purchased the actual master tapes for the Matrix shows(from which a 4-CD set could be created).....but they won't release them, because it would mean conceding that the previous release was from copy tapes.

[Dunderhead]

Who's Flash Harry?

I also like how AGD's "compromise" is just "shut up", truly the King Solomon of the Smiley Smile board.

[smokeythebear]

Like I said, Andrew is great, and I've known him for years, but I just think as a general rule there are better ways of expressing one's opinion, you know, different ways of writing something, to sound 'nicer'.

True, but sometimes 'nicer' doesn't work. Trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear would make the Pope swear sometimes. Also, and maybe I'm wrong here, this is a hard-core BB/BW MB, and the best one still standing, thus I assume a certain level of knowledge. Maybe that's just me being overoptimistic. Opinions ?

I agree with AGD, and i feel the problem with the world today is everyone trying to be so goshdarn nice. But i suppose it´s how you take in stuff, a correction can seem harsh but you can deal with it and be offended or you can be grateful for the information. I lean toward the second one because people generally mean well. I'm by no means a Beach Boys expert, i did that fanatical journey with The Doors (ask me what pants and vest Jim wore at the Hollywood bowl 68 and were he got them or what happens to them and in a couple of forums i guess i came off as harsh but there was never any bad intentions behind it.

It´s kind of funny how similar the debates are over different groups, same discussions over compilations that only includes one rare track, arguments and lawsuits within the group, preserving the legacy etc...

Looking back at it a couple of years later with some distance i came to loose the thing that blew me away when i first heard the doors, the magic in the music, the soul of the music. Instead it kind of became this thing of looking at photos trying to determine who was at a session, or inspecting tape boxes for unreleased tracks or hassling their manager demanding them to release certain concerts. Like instead of eating a McDonald's burger and saying, well that was nice, you nestle into their company and try to find the recipes and changes in them, keeping track of burger changes, buying McDonald items with print errors on the their boxes. But you cant enjoy the damn burger while eating it

Anyways, point being i like people being straight forward, i like sarcasm its wonderful to read especially if people know what they are talking about.

[smokeythebear]

I am all for differing opinions but I do think the raking of Fishmonk and Phil over the coals has gone a little bit over the edge. So their opinions are not in agreement with everyone's proven "facts". This is something called LIFE. If you're coming on here and can't take a dissenting opinion, no matter how unbelievably asinine it may be, might I suggest leaving the computer behind for a while? This is a BEACH BOYS message board. We wouldn't be able to agree on what day it is let alone the specifics of anything Smile-related no matter how hard we tried.

You said it. Leave the nay-sayers alone, let them have their opinions. Nobody is forcing you to agree, or even reply. I'll tell you it is MUCH more frustrating reading all the bickering over Phil and Fishmonks pessimism, than actually reading their posts.

And come on Andrew, seriously, you come off as being some kind of Gestapo at times here, correcting and criticizing other people's posts if they are not coherent with how you see things (whether it's language or pessimism). I know you're a great guy, but you don't exactly always show it here IMO.

I see your point but i rather step up for AGD here, as a general rule in life you get all the info and facts and take them into consideration before stating something as fact otherwise you will get a remark or debate or stand corrected, if you dont know or just assuming post a question instead and you will get help. If that hurts...well gee it´s life...

When i was in the hardcore scene of The Doors a couple of years we had management coming out stating that that they had the original tapes for a show called the Matrix, it took alot of AGD´s and digging to prove them otherwise. Gestapos are needed, and to be honest i find AGD´s posts more informative than  offensive.

By the way, The Doors management later purchased the actual master tapes for the Matrix shows(from which a 4-CD set could be created).....but they won't release them, because it would mean conceding that the previous release was from copy tapes.

Yeah i know about the Matrix debacle, they were warned, they were given sound samples by a friend of the tape owners BEFORE the first Matrix release. It was badly handled in all senses, the same can be said of Paris blues and their infamous boxset that has a thousand flaws with overdubs and cutting. We have the outtakes disc that has been promised for years but has yet to see the light of day.

[vintagemusic]

I have no particular expertise or inside info, but I presume the SMILE box
will be coming in the next few months just like Capitol said it would be.

I don't even understand why Phil Cohen or others think it's all a hoax
or conspiracy. That doesn't even make sense, just seems paranoid
or terribly misguided.

Andrew Doe seems to be a real expert, and seems to be in contact with
some inside people. Mr Doe has said over and over, it's real, it's not a hoax
The Surviving Beach Boys themselves  have all confirmed the release is coming.

I Look forward to the release, and between Mr Doe's confirmations, the official
Capitol press release, and the remarks by Love, Wilson., Jardine and Johnston
and Linnet I don't see how anyone could doubt it.


It is joyful for me that when some of the hardened cabal of Hoffman forum
tools and knobs, start posting about what's reasonable, what isin't, whats blue
what's green here on Smiley, they don't really get any traction here, and are
unable to rain that misery here with any large degree of success.

This forum has been a joy for me to keep up with SMILE Info, and Phil Cohen's
conspiracy theories though odd, are minor compared to the hellish mind games
from the cabal of Snobby knobs at Hoffman who take over every interesting thread
and box out everybody else except for the reamers dozen.

Glad to see only a few of the virus's here.

The SMILE Box is coming soon, I cannot wait to hear the faux "close as we can get"
disc one!

I really appreciate Andrew Doe and some of you very knowledgable BEach BOy people

[Andrew G. Doe]

Funniest post I've seen in decades was on the Hoff, when it was claimed - no, sorry, stated as fact - in all seriousness that because fans were calling Capitol in the wake of Jardine's little slip and asking for further info such as release dates, the company were seriously contemplating pulling the plug on the whole project, and actually asked a respected industry figure to lie on their behalf and say, on the Hoff MB, that the project wasn't coming out this year. Seriously, you couldn't make up nonsense like that. 

[smokeythebear]

Funniest post I've seen in decades was on the Hoff, when it was claimed - no, sorry, stated as fact - in all seriousness that because fans were calling Capitol in the wake of Jardine's little slip and asking for further info such as release dates, the company were seriously contemplating pulling the plug on the whole project, and actually asked a respected industry figure to lie on their behalf and say, on the Hoff MB, that the project wasn't coming out this year. Seriously, you couldn't make up nonsense like that. 

Yeah that´s pretty bad for business, costumers actually calling and want to buy your products.

[lance]

Like I said, Andrew is great, and I've known him for years, but I just think as a general rule there are better ways of expressing one's opinion, you know, different ways of writing something, to sound 'nicer'.

True, but sometimes 'nicer' doesn't work. Trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear would make the Pope swear sometimes. Also, and maybe I'm wrong here, this is a hard-core BB/BW MB, and the best one still standing, thus I assume a certain level of knowledge. Maybe that's just me being overoptimistic. Opinions ?

I agree with AGD, and i feel the problem with the world today is everyone trying to be so goshdarn nice. .

What we need are more wars.

[37!ws]

In all the craziness I've lost track of what's been mentioned here, but one thing we need to realize....as far as I remember, any time it was officially declared by Capitol and the Beach Boys that an archival release that us fans would drool over was going to be released, it turned out to be true. Delays? Yes. All the time. And it's not just the Beach Boys, either -- various little glitches pop up now and then that cause things to be delayed with practically ANY artist under the sun.

But remember how we were skeptical about, say, the 2000 twofers? Or The Pet Sounds Sessions? I personally spoke to a rep from Capitol about that set amid all the delays and cited prior instances where it seems that fans were let down and said, "What are the odds the same thing will happen with The Pet Sounds Sessions?" And he said it absolutely would be released, it had already gotten well past the point of whether or not it would be released. This was in 1996, and in November 1997, sure enough, it was in our hot hands.

Everybody, just relax. Those other cats are gonna straighten you out, let you know where this whole scene is, where it's at, so everybody will stop coming on...and then we'll get, 'cha know, world peace.

[smokeythebear]

Like I said, Andrew is great, and I've known him for years, but I just think as a general rule there are better ways of expressing one's opinion, you know, different ways of writing something, to sound 'nicer'.

True, but sometimes 'nicer' doesn't work. Trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear would make the Pope swear sometimes. Also, and maybe I'm wrong here, this is a hard-core BB/BW MB, and the best one still standing, thus I assume a certain level of knowledge. Maybe that's just me being overoptimistic. Opinions ?

I agree with AGD, and i feel the problem with the world today is everyone trying to be so goshdarn nice. .

What we need are more wars.

I live in the country next to Norway so do not tell me about it, my point being more in the lines of this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnjJvzprjN0

[Micha]

Andrew,

              Now, even Brian Wilson is expressing uncertainty over whether the box set will be released. I consider Brian to be credible. Is the "Smile" box set going to be released? Brian says "Maybe". This is from a recent interview with a newspaper in Kentucky.

Yes, and it was after he had answered consecutive previous questions with "Yes" and "No" -- in other words, he'd run out of one-word answers, and "Maybe" was the only one left. Or maybe he thought that answering three straight questions with "Yes," "No," and "Maybe" would be just hilarious.

This is actually the best point made IMHO about the infamous "maybe" interview. Will you go steady with me? Yes - no - maybe ... 

I can't see AGD as Gestapo. His posts make a lot of sense while Phil is just - is that called "bitching"? My advice to anyone who is offended by Phil's posts (or plain bored like me) is just to not read them and not react to them.

And now I have a question that I'm sure someone can answer.  The recording on the GV box set disc 2 track 20 section 5 starting at 1:39 - what is the recording date of that piece? And I always assumed that this recording was used as the base for the H&V chorus in the 1967 released version, is that right? Oh, that's two questions.

[smokeythebear]

Andrew,

              Now, even Brian Wilson is expressing uncertainty over whether the box set will be released. I consider Brian to be credible. Is the "Smile" box set going to be released? Brian says "Maybe". This is from a recent interview with a newspaper in Kentucky.

Yes, and it was after he had answered consecutive previous questions with "Yes" and "No" -- in other words, he'd run out of one-word answers, and "Maybe" was the only one left. Or maybe he thought that answering three straight questions with "Yes," "No," and "Maybe" would be just hilarious.

This is actually the best point made IMHO about the infamous "maybe" interview. Will you go steady with me? Yes - no - maybe ... 

I can't see AGD as Gestapo. His posts make a lot of sense while Phil is just - is that called "bitching"? My advice to anyone who is offended by Phil's posts (or plain bored like me) is just to not read them and not react to them.

And now I have a question that I'm sure someone can answer.  The recording on the GV box set disc 2 track 20 section 5 starting at 1:39 - what is the recording date of that piece? And I always assumed that this recording was used as the base for the H&V chorus in the 1967 released version, is that right? Oh, that's two questions.

Agreed, as Brian's maybe read the whole interview and you can see he was in one of his many moods. Smile is coming out this year, it´s been signed off by everyone, promoted in Mojo, in the news of the official site, Mark made an extensive interview, some one found a blogger that did the cover art.

I think the big question is will we be satisfied with what is coming out? I'm all for using post smile material as long as they include the original sessions unaltered. Will the mixes sound alright? i know Mark is pretty good at mixing but i was fairly unimpressed with the mixing of instrumental track for good vibrations, piano and guitars are very very low. The choice of not using a real harpsichord on BWPS and go with the kurtzweil was also quite underwhelming. Time to get alone has to much reverb, and generally when Mark gets something new in the can he seems to blow it up in the mix, a good example is Don't Worry Baby, that has the vocals ten times higher than the instrumental track.  On the other hand Mark has done remarkable work on many other tracks, so who knows what smile will sound like?

[drbeachboy]

I have no problem with what AGD has stated to both Phil & Fishmonk. If they post, then we are all entitled to respond the way we see fit. Responses don't always have to be nicey nice, but they should be civil and to the point. There is always a blur with this subject as to whether they are stating opinions or facts. Misstating facts should always be corrected and so should misguided opinions. Both guys know that there are very few of us here that agree with their position, yet they insist on continually posting their opposing view. Common Sense alone should tell you that TSS is in production. Common Sense should also tell you that a company as big as Capitol is not going to release a statement prematurely. They are going to wait until they have a solid GO date in place. One other thing, I'll take what AGD has to say over anyone else's opinion. At least I know that he checks his sources and facts before he speaks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

'Xactly - if, after you've repeatedly been telling an unruly child to behave, the brat continues to be a pain, I think you're entitled to take them around the corner and administer a large can of whupass. 'Cause that's all that will register.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not trying to call anyone out for spite or anything, but if it appears that way I'm saying beforehand it's all business, not personal...So a poster made a statement that Smile really isn't that popular. Then the same poster later suggested something along the lines that popularity cannot be measured objectively and such discussions are foolhardy.

I'm back again after reading through 3 pages or so with no reply since those posts to ask directly: What criteria are you applying to your original statement that Smile isn't popular? I'm honest in saying I am genuinely interested in finding out your reasons for coming to that conclusion. One criteria you state is the lack of interest on an unnamed message board - from the content of your posts I'm guessing there would be more substantial evidence or facts than something random like that in your mind before making such a statement.

So what is it? And can you back up such a statement, or was it made to stir the pot?

[Bruce Louden]

October 4, the faithful will be rewarded!

[guitarfool2002]

Looking back at it a couple of years later with some distance i came to loose the thing that blew me away when i first heard the doors, the magic in the music, the soul of the music. Instead it kind of became this thing of looking at photos trying to determine who was at a session, or inspecting tape boxes for unreleased tracks or hassling their manager demanding them to release certain concerts. Like instead of eating a McDonald's burger and saying, well that was nice, you nestle into their company and try to find the recipes and changes in them, keeping track of burger changes, buying McDonald items with print errors on the their boxes. But you cant enjoy the damn burger while eating it

There is something profound about this paragraph. I like to think there is room enough for both pursuits, the sheer enjoyment and love for a certain artist and the music and a pursuit of the details and background of that music. At some point, fans simply run out of music to buy from a given artist. Then the pursuit of "the rest of the story" can kick in. In my case there are a few bands where I went around collecting every official release I wanted and needed, and after that is done, where do you go for more especially if the band or artist is no longer active?

With researching the nuts-and-bolts of the songs, including, yes, identifying people in studio shots and clues scribbled on track sheets and tape boxes, it ignites that passion for the music which may have dimmed a bit with the lack of "new" things to explore.

It can be a delicate balance between turning something you love to do into a feasible job versus having something you love to do feel like a job with emphasis on the nuts-and-bolts instead of the things you love about it. You don't want to lose that love for whatever it is you're doing as you're caught up in the details. Sometimes it's unavoidable.

I'd like to think there is hope out there in people working in the higher levels of a place like McDonalds who can still enjoy one of their hamburgers apart from their daily job. One of the reasons I like watching the Food Network (something I never would have guessed about myself 20 years ago... ) is the way professional chefs who run restaurants and think about recipes and ingredients all day long can still sit down and enjoy a good meal like the rest of us. They may be thinking of how the chef prepared it, what spices they're tasting, what they could do to make something similar, etc. But the act of sitting down and eating a good meal still puts a smile on their faces after studying and being around the most minute details of food for years.