Killing Hitler

[Mike's Beard]

Here's a very controversial subject that was put to me the other day. If you could travel back in time, with the knowledge of what he would later become and what he would do, could you bring yourself to kill Adolf Hitler as a child? Could killing a then innocent young child be justified if it meant saving millions of lives years later? A heavy subject, but I know there are some deep thinkers on this board and would be interested in their opinions and insights.

[SloopJohnB]

http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:155267

Eric Cartman: "If you had a chance right now to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it? I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he was awesome, but you would, right?"

 

[grillo]

This assumes Hitler was the sole, or even main, reason for the holocaust, and WWII in general. Like most 'leaders', those pulling the strings behind the scenes likely guided this bad guy.
To answer your question, no, I would not kill a child. Perhaps I would try to build his self-esteem, or show him the possibilities of love and families, but I would not kill him. There is never any moral justification for killing an innocent. Besides, what if you went back in time, tried to kill Hitler, failed, and thus created the monster you want to kill? According to my understanding of speculative physics, even if one could go back in time he/she could never change the past. There is an interesting book about this called Time Machines: Time Travel in Physics, Metaphysics, and Science Fiction that follows the above logic.
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Machines-Physics-Metaphysics-Science/dp/0387985719/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286801714&sr=1-5

[rab2591]

If I had the chance I would not kill hitler as a child. I would quietly 'disappear' a few students from the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna leaving some wiggle room for young Adolf to be accepted into the art community thus, in a world ruled by chaos, changing the course of human events in a profound way as Hitler would no longer wish to destroy humanity.

[rab2591]

This assumes Hitler was the sole, or even main, reason for the holocaust, and WWII in general. Like most 'leaders', those pulling the strings behind the scenes likely guided this bad guy.
To answer your question, no, I would not kill a child. Perhaps I would try to build his self-esteem, or show him the possibilities of love and families, but I would not kill him. There is never any moral justification for killing an innocent. Besides, what if you went back in time, tried to kill Hitler, failed, and thus created the monster you want to kill? According to my understanding of speculative physics, even if one could go back in time he/she could never change the past. There is an interesting book about this called Time Machines: Time Travel in Physics, Metaphysics, and Science Fiction that follows the above logic.
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Machines-Physics-Metaphysics-Science/dp/0387985719/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286801714&sr=1-5

Have you all ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Bonhoeffer tried to assassinate Hitler by planting a bomb under Hitler's desk. Hitler narrowly escaped and was convinced more than ever that God was protecting him. He stepped up his hatred towards the world and continued his wrath with confidence that God was on his side.

[Menace Wilson]

Have you all ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Bonhoeffer tried to assassinate Hitler by planting a bomb under Hitler's desk. Hitler narrowly escaped and was convinced more than ever that God was protecting him. He stepped up his hatred towards the world and continued his wrath with confidence that God was on his side.

There's an under-appreciated movie about this called Valkyrie.  I think it's very good (once you get past the fact that they cast Tom Cruise as the lead).

As for the question, I wouldn't do it either.  Not only would you have to kill Hitler, but to be on the safe side you'd have to go back and whack the folks who had influenced him too: Wagner, Nietzsche, Darwin, etc. 

[Mike's Beard]

I like the whole notion of trying to guide the infant Hitler towards a more positive future so he would not be compelled to commit his atrocities. Of course I would have to learn to speak German to do this and may have a hard time explaining WHY a 32 year old man is paying so much interest in a child!  

I firmly believe that very few monsters come out of the womb born evil. Most are created a victim of circumstance within society.

[rab2591]

Have you all ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Bonhoeffer tried to assassinate Hitler by planting a bomb under Hitler's desk. Hitler narrowly escaped and was convinced more than ever that God was protecting him. He stepped up his hatred towards the world and continued his wrath with confidence that God was on his side.

There's an under-appreciated movie about this called Valkyrie.  I think it's very good (once you get past the fact that they cast Tom Cruise as the lead).

As for the question, I wouldn't do it either.  Not only would you have to kill Hitler, but to be on the safe side you'd have to go back and whack the folks who had influenced him too: Wagner, Nietzsche, Darwin, etc. 

I didn't know Valkyrie was about Bonhoeffer; makes sense though.

Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Lions For Lambs, and Valkyrie are probably the only Tom Cruise movies I enjoy.

[rab2591]

Of course I would have to learn to speak German to do this and may have a hard time explaining WHY a 32 year old man is paying so much interest in a child!  

 

[lupinofan]

The book "Making History" by Stephen Fry also covers this subject. (Warning: Spoiler alert.)

The protagonists succeed in ensuring that Hitler was never born, only to discover that the world as a result is a FAR worse place. Even without Hitler, Franz Ferdinand was still assassinated, the First World War still happened, and Germany still went bankrupt. In the absence of Hitler, a far more persuasive, elegant, and outwardly level-headed man became the leader of the Nazi Party (which was formed to try to fill the vacuum in Germany after the First World War), and remained in power until his death from natural causes in the mid-1960s.

The protagonists then have to try to reverse their earlier experiment, to ensure that Hitler was born after all, in order to make the world a better place. The moral, of course, is "be careful what you wish for."

[Jay]

Actually, lupinofan(by way of Stephen Fry  ) makes a very good point.The REAL true evil behind Hitler was Himmler, and Goebbels(probably spelled his name wrong). Had Hitler never existed, there would still be Himmler and the rest of theThird Reich. The world may very well be much more worse off than it is now.

[The Heartical Don]

Have you all ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Bonhoeffer tried to assassinate Hitler by planting a bomb under Hitler's desk. Hitler narrowly escaped and was convinced more than ever that God was protecting him. He stepped up his hatred towards the world and continued his wrath with confidence that God was on his side.

There's an under-appreciated movie about this called Valkyrie.  I think it's very good (once you get past the fact that they cast Tom Cruise as the lead).

As for the question, I wouldn't do it either.  Not only would you have to kill Hitler, but to be on the safe side you'd have to go back and whack the folks who had influenced him too: Wagner, Nietzsche, Darwin, etc. 

I didn't know Valkyrie was about Bonhoeffer; makes sense though.

Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Lions For Lambs, and Valkyrie are probably the only Tom Cruise movies I enjoy.

Wasn't that von Stauffenberg? IIRC Bonhoeffer was a priest, or reverend/vicar. Stauffenbert was a guy from a noble background.

[rab2591]

Have you all ever heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Bonhoeffer tried to assassinate Hitler by planting a bomb under Hitler's desk. Hitler narrowly escaped and was convinced more than ever that God was protecting him. He stepped up his hatred towards the world and continued his wrath with confidence that God was on his side.

There's an under-appreciated movie about this called Valkyrie.  I think it's very good (once you get past the fact that they cast Tom Cruise as the lead).

As for the question, I wouldn't do it either.  Not only would you have to kill Hitler, but to be on the safe side you'd have to go back and whack the folks who had influenced him too: Wagner, Nietzsche, Darwin, etc. 

I didn't know Valkyrie was about Bonhoeffer; makes sense though.

Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Lions For Lambs, and Valkyrie are probably the only Tom Cruise movies I enjoy.

Wasn't that von Stauffenberg? IIRC Bonhoeffer was a priest, or reverend/vicar. Stauffenbert was a guy from a noble background.

Ha! My source for the Bonhoeffer story was a book on christianity and it failed too mention he was a pastor! I knew he was from previous studies but still rather funny the book failed to mention that!

And Hollywood seems to love to twist history around so much that I didn't doubt they took the Christian Bonhoeffer and turned him into a German General 

[Alex]

Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Lions For Lambs, and Valkyrie are probably the only Tom Cruise movies I enjoy.

Can't forget about Tropic Thunder!

[Mike's Beard]

I would throw Vanilla Sky, Collateral, The Color of Money and Eyes Wide Shut on to that list. Btw, I think I must be the only person in the Western World who has never seen Top Gun.

[rab2591]

I would throw Vanilla Sky, Collateral, The Color of Money and Eyes Wide Shut on to that list. Btw, I think I must be the only person in the Western World who has never seen Top Gun.

Go out and rent it soon! Wonderful friday night movie.