Carl Wilson after the BB85 album

[BillA]

A simple question.... Why are we singling out Carl as the Beach Boy who gave up or gave in?

I think the original question that was posed was more why Carl's songwriting dried up rather than why he stopped caring about the group. Let's face it Mike wrote more in the mid '80s to early 90's than ever and Al and Bruce still came up with material  for each new release bur Carl seemed to be more a gun (or should that read voice) for hire. Can't escape the fact that whoever's supplying the bulk of the material is leading the band. The late 60's early 70's may have been an exception but that is because Carl had so many half finished Brian songs to draw from that he worked into shape.*

The period we are discussing is around the time Carl hit 40. Rock is essentially a young man game. I'm not saying 40 is ready for the glue factory but the desire to take on the world with your music is probably fading by that point. He must have realised there are people with worse jobs in life than playing timeless music to screaming fans the world over for megabucks and probably just decided to roll with it.

* You could argue he deserved co writing credits on "Sail on Sailer" and "Marcella".

Well, he was still writing after BB85 (how many years was "Like a Brother in Development") so my guess is that he gave up on the band has a creative outlet.

I remember reading an early 80's (perhaps 82) interview where he seemed to acknowledge the quandary the band was in and stated that he would like to give an album one more shot.  Perhaps BB85 was that shot.  His material is certainly head and shoulders above anything else on the record.

[Alex]

Carl didn't give up on the Beach Boys, he just somewhat gave into the Mike Love nostalgia machine.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Carl didn't give up on the Beach Boys, he just somewhat gave into the Mike Love nostalgia machine.

That's what I mean. He fought against the nostalgia machine for a long time.

[Foster's Freeze]

Carl didn't give up on the Beach Boys, he just somewhat gave into the Mike Love nostalgia machine.

That's what I mean. He fought against the nostalgia machine for a long time.

That was my point too.  You can only fight for so long and give Mike credit I guess, he rushed to the front with more of the material.

[oldsurferdude]

Carl didn't give up on the Beach Boys, he just somewhat gave into the Mike Love nostalgia machine.

more like tThe Mike Love Cheese machine.

[Mike's Beard]

A good point to remember is what Carl was quoted on saying not that long before his passing that "Music is spiritual". That to me says he DID keep the faith and that it all still mattered to him. He had no doubt realised that whilst any new music from the group would never be taken that seriously again the upside was that in 100 years time the classic Beach Boys recordings would still be as beloved as they are today. Not many of todays groups can say that.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

A good point to remember is what Carl was quoted on saying not that long before his passing that "Music is spiritual". That to me says he DID keep the faith and that it all still mattered to him. He had no doubt realised that whilst any new music from the group would never be taken that seriously again the upside was that in 100 years time the classic Beach Boys recordings would still be as beloved as they are today. Not many of todays groups can say that.

I am not so sure that it is much different today. Back in the 60s, the WW2 generation thought that rock n roll was garbage. In 30 years, gen xers will talk about how great the music was in the 80s and 90s and how its just not the same in 2025. Personally, I think there has always been a small percentage of gems amongst all of the comercial trash.

Sorry. Getting off on a different subject here.

[Mike's Beard]

Don't be sorry as it's a good point. No matter how bad modern music may now sound to us 30+, to some 16 year old girl crap like Usher is brilliant. One day she'll be bemoaning the state of modern music to her kids. When Carl said "music is spiritual" I believe he meant that any song out there is going to connect with someone in some way and hold a meaning to them.

[Autotune]

Carl didn't give up on the Beach Boys, he just somewhat gave into the Mike Love nostalgia machine.

Gave up? He led it that machine musically. He built it. It was Carl who reformed the BBs in the early 80s as a well-tuned machine that could perform on an equal level 200 nights a year. It was him who recruited Foskett and had the rest of the guys go back to their original part. As energetic  and current as they could be, the BBs had been a musical mess for years (and an embarrassment for a year or two). And he had a heck of a good time performing. Do not patronize Carl for thinking as a beach boy and not as a beach boys fan.

[tpesky]

I'm pretty sure Foskett joined the Beach Boys when Carl was on hiatus in late 1981. 

[Jason]

Foskett was brought on near the end of 1981 by Michael. Michael had hired Foskett as bandleader for a limited solo tour he did in 1981 to promote Looking Back With Love, and decided he'd fit with the Beach Boys. Carl kept him when he returned in 1982, but he fired Michael's other addition to the band, bassist Ernie Knapp, literally, upon rejoining the group.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Jeff's first BB tour was the 1981 Christmas/New Year visit to Sun City in South Africa.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It was Carl who reformed the BBs in the early 80s as a well-tuned machine that could perform on an equal level 200 nights a year.

Flag on the play ! This 200-shows-a-year thing is beginning to bug me. Don't care who says it, just isn't true - the most shows they played a year was about 150, and that included overseas touring. Looky here:


1980     65
1981   105
1982   115
1983   116
1984     84
1985     78
1986   105
1987   142
1988   142
1989   106

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Another myth....BUSTED~!

One day I will start a Beach Boys Mythbusters thread.

[gsmile]

In a related thought, does anybody else really dig the album that Carl produced for Ricci Martin "Beached"?  It certainly sounds like the missing link in Carl's production history, connecting the gritty classic rock with the more smoothed over adult contemporary sound he'd adopt on his solo albums and the BB85 LP.  There's some truly marvelous stuff here, for instance, the opener "Stop Look Around" is just sublime.  Quirky but appropriate lyrics, great Carl backing vocals (love the "Oh-O-oh!" in the second verse) and even an delicious appearance of the ARP Strings Synth, which Dennis also favored immensely in the late 70s.  Also featured on this album is "Everybody Knows My Name", a mid tempo rocker which has Ricci straight-up cloning Carl's vocal style, right down to the syllables.  If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this song offered up to the Beach Boys during the 15 Big Ones sessions?  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's "Stop Look Around":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfnErCT-LI

I believe someone in another thread mentioned that Dennis plays drums on this track as well.  Any other fans?

[MBE]

In a related thought, does anybody else really dig the album that Carl produced for Ricci Martin "Beached"?  It certainly sounds like the missing link in Carl's production history, connecting the gritty classic rock with the more smoothed over adult contemporary sound he'd adopt on his solo albums and the BB85 LP.  There's some truly marvelous stuff here, for instance, the opener "Stop Look Around" is just sublime.  Quirky but appropriate lyrics, great Carl backing vocals (love the "Oh-O-oh!" in the second verse) and even an delicious appearance of the ARP Strings Synth, which Dennis also favored immensely in the late 70s.  Also featured on this album is "Everybody Knows My Name", a mid tempo rocker which has Ricci straight-up cloning Carl's vocal style, right down to the syllables.  If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this song offered up to the Beach Boys during the 15 Big Ones sessions?  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's "Stop Look Around":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfnErCT-LI

I believe someone in another thread mentioned that Dennis plays drums on this track as well.  Any other fans?

I don't like Beached as much as I do The Flame LP but it is a good album. The two songs you mentioned are real standouts. It's a whole lot better then what Carl did solo.