How legit are the lawsuit songwriting credits?

[the captain]

I don't think you can make it an issue where you're judging the value of those lives taken (or damaged, etc.), or for that matter the seriousness of the offense of the person about whom we're debating credit. Manson was a murderer. If he had been, say, an abusive husband but not a killer, would he deserve credit? What if he were a murderer, but a Robin Hood style killer, only killing the bad to benefit the good? That kind of reasoning, I think, is inherently faulty: these are separate issues. One is credit for a factual accomplishment. The other is how the person is judged for his or her actions. They don't cross.

[joe_blow]

By which reasoning, Phil Spector's entire output should now be buried in a deep pit and never mentioned again.
[/quote]

I agreee with AGD. To discresit someone who did the work because of the type of person they turned out to be is wrongly re-writing history.  If you look at the Brioan interview on Larry King ("...was it (name of the band) Glen Campbell and The Beach Boys?")a while back he tries to confirm that Landy did in fact write the lyrics to some of those songs but Melinda tries to hush him up.

[MBE]

My two cents, if I only gave credit to rock stars who I agree with morally Al Jardine would be awful lonely. For better or worse Manson was a song writer who was decent and sang decent. His version of Cease To Exist is actually good and actually a little more elemental and less spooky then the Beach Boys recording. Of course I think Dennis made it a better song, but the guy had a modicum of talent. Obviously he was becoming more and more psychotic by the week and did some horrible things. Yet so did Phil Spector and I am not going to deny his talent either.  Should he get label credit? Yes I suppose though he and Dennis worked it out so he wouldn't. I don't think he should get paid royalities on it. I don't think it's cool that the Beach Boys knew him, but it's a part of the story that is interesting as it is tragic.

[Aegir]

All of the profit earned from the sale of Manson's "Lie" CD goes to a the family of one of his victims.

[shelter]

The fact that someone being a murderer/rapist is a terrible, unforgivable thing doesn't make not crediting someone for their work a good thing.

Right. You can't just decide to not credit someone because he wasn't a very nice person... Nobody ever considered to stop giving Joe Meek or Phil Spector credit for any of their productions... Or to not mention Ché Guevara as the author of The Motorcycle Diaries... And so on.

[mikeyj]

So it would be OK for me to cover, say, "I'm Beggin' You Please", change the lyric a little and not give Brian any credit ?  Manson wrote "Cease To Exist", and Dennis adapted it into "NLNTL". He may not be a model citizen, but Manson deserves to be credited.

Obviously Manson does have credit now. Clearly everyone has their views but let me put it this way, Manson was reponsible for the murder of several people (I'm guessing about 6 or something but even one is tragic) so to be honest I couldn't care less if Manson wrote every Beatles song and wasn't credited. When it comes down to it, a persons life is more important than a stupid songwriting credit. Yes Manson wrote it but I don't care that he wasn't credited considering what he did to those people. Murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc.. are the lowest scum of this earth and I'm sorry but I just don't care that Manson wasn't credited. I feel sorry for a guy like Stephen Kalinich who wrote All I Want To Do but wasn't given credit at the time.

By which reasoning, Phil Spector's entire output should now be buried in a deep pit and never mentioned again.

Has Phil Spector even been convicted? I haven't checked lately so I wouldnt know. Maybe I wasn't clear but alls I was trying to say is that I don't care that he wasn't credited. He should be credited, but I don't care that he's not (or wasn't).

[Amanda Hart]

Last I knew about Spector there was another hung jury and they are currently awaiting retrial.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If I may remind you of your exact words:

In my opinion a lot of those Landy co-writes were written by Landy (the lyrics of course) but after what he did to Brian, I don't think he deserves credit for anything on that album. The same goes for Never Learn Not To Love. Stuff Manson, he doesn't deserve credit for that one either.

Q, E and almost certainly, D. 

And no, Spector hasn't been found guilty, but the fact is two people went into his place alive and only one came out in that same condition... and he has a history of gratuitously discharging firearms. Plus, his chauffeur is on record as stating that Spector said "I think I killed someone." If he wasn't who is is (or rather, was), and/or have the funding, he'd be inside by now.