Mike Love was the 5th Beatle!

[Jason]

People paid good money for GIOMH which was far worse.

[Destroyer]

You might want to read Aegir's post again, especially the "because labels consider him to be 'THE Brian Wilson'" part. Labels are more willing to release a Brian Wilson album than a Mike Love album, no matter how good/bad Mike's unreleased album is. 

Thanks, but it was short enough to understand first time around.  So he's "THE Brian Wilson" then?  I guess Mike's not "THE Mike Love" - you know, the one who has overseen the commercial come-uppance the Beach Boys for the past 20 years and takes the credit for it.  Lord knows that Love has no money, access to studio time, or connections to help him out - the playing field isn't even!  Brian has all these songs that people put out for him because he's THE BRIAN WILSON!  And because Mike's not Brian, he's not released anything -- let alone anything OF NOTE -- and has only been able to surreptitiously get his tracks out below the radar.  Who's got the "Mike Love Presents FRoWN" SOT boots?  They must be SOMEWHERE.

Or, let's use yours and Mike's words.  The guiding word and direction of Mike Love has been "commercial".  And if, as you say, labels are more willing to release a Brian album than a Mike album - doesn't that mean that, from a commercial standpoint, the Brian albums are a more viable product, regardless of how good or bad they are?  Even easier: Brian's name sells albums, Mike's doesn't - so Mike's his equal, then?  Especially by the standards that Love uses to govern the modern day BBs?

Or is it that Mike deserves more respect for touring the same songs for the past 20+ years, whereas Brian doesn't come close with writing new ones? 

Regarding "Santa's Goin' To Kokomo", Mike wanted to do a fun holiday song, not a groundbreaking masterpiece. And he released it for free, whereas with Brian's management you have to buy the same album three times to get all the different bonus tracks. 

With all due respect maybe you don't see the point you just illustrated so well: selling the same albums three times over, from a commercial standpoint, is successful.  Repackaging 30 minute albums into multi-disc box sets because people want to hear how you were running THE BACKING VOCAL SESSIONS is successful.  Giving away a song no one will pay $1 for by itself is not.  By Mike's logic, Brian wins big time.  Of course, if your saying that Mike's an artist and that was an integrity thing on his part, well...

Also Brian's been successful writing both fun songs and groundbreaking masterpieces.  I'm not able to say the same for Mike.

People paid good money for GIOMH which was far worse.

You will hear no arguments from me there.  Such a prescient title.

[Wilsonista]

I think it's telling that Mike Love Not War has never been released (and it's considered to be Mike's best effort by those who have heard it) and GIOMH (what many cal Brian's worst) was.*


*Non-Brianistas, don't start typing. I do know the only reason it was released was because it was packaged with SMiLE to Warner Brothers.

[Wirestone]

GIOMH would have been released anyway. Not on a major label, maybe. But someone would have done it. Maybe they would have insisted that some vocals be recut -- and things would have been better all around.

Folks who seriously argue for the musical quality of Mike's releases have lost all perspective. I've listened to Unleash the Love (the album) and it is -- eh. It's not bad, but it's a Mike Love solo album. No one would put out the darn thing unless Mike began to heal the sick. *

* Disclaimer for non-Brianistas: I agree that Mike was an essential part of the BB vocal blend, that his lyrics were important to the group's early hits, and that he's kept the group steaming along on the road. No question there. But that's a different thing from arguing that any of his solo music has had any artistic relevance ever.

[mikeyj]

People paid good money for GIOMH which was far worse.

Really? I don't like GIOMH but I'd rather hear something like Soul Searchin' (even though it's not as good as the original) over Santa's Goin' To Kokomo.

[Jason]

I think something needs to be set straight regarding the artistic quality of Michael's solo music. Yes, it's total kitsch. Yes, it's unreleased for a reason. But it's enjoyable in a "turn off your brain" sense. It's inoffensive pop music, certainly not high art. Michael sang much better on his solo albums than on 90% of the stuff he did with the Beach Boys at the time. Either way we wouldn't listen unless we were fans. I would argue that Michael's solo music is LESS offensive than all of the sh*t the Beach Boys insulted us with after Love You, with LA and parts of '85 excepted.

[Wirestone]

There's a point to that.

[Jason]

The main reason to listen to Michael's solo music, for me anyway, is his vocals. While his tone was incredibly nasal and grating from 1977 until about 2000 or so, somehow he put more effort into his solo stuff. Looking Back With Love has some excellent lead vocals for his age at the time.

The lyrics on the solo records are indeed pretty bad, and in many cases Michael didn't contribute to any of them. Looking Back With Love has one Michael co-write. Country Love is mostly Michael, words AND music. First Love, same deal. Mike Love Not War, however, was a pleasant surprise. By far his most enjoyable album. Again, high art it ain't, but it's a respectable effort. No reason it couldn't at least get an internet release, but again, he's not an easy sell.

He'll never get out of the desert, so to speak. The Beach Boys as individuals are mostly unappealing commercially, even Brian and Dennis to a much lesser extent.

[Destroyer]

Nice point of view.  An interesting compliment to that train of thought is how when Brian DOES write a simple, switch off your mind  tune like the aforementioned "What Love Can Do" you will usually hear something to the tune of "Eh, it's harmless enough but it's no SMiLE.  This is hardly adventurous, this is paint-by-numbers Brian.  I mean, it's okay...".

Tying back to the original thought train: that is one tune from a Target comp, a tune with a heavyweight co-write (not just song, album-wise as well), amongst some very credible releases.  That is something Michael simply is not doing.  Also, to get into semantics a bit: Mike did not write "Santa", he rewrote lyrics for "Kokomo".  Nor does Mike write songs.  He writes lyrics and relies on musicians to end up with real songs.  I think in the past he was a fantastic lyricist and his singing parts are now legendary.  But Mike Love writes lyrics, not songs.  Dennis wrote songs.  Carl wrote songs.  Thank (insert deity or lack thereof here) that Brian still is.

[Jason]

For what it's worth, Michael does know how to play guitar, he was just never required to within the band's ranks. Obviously, his arranging skills are a bit limited. The best idea I can think of for his songwriting, if we're going to call it that since it's frowned upon by some, is that he noodled around on the guitar with some chords and then when he had a melody he liked, he went to the Wilsons or Al to help flesh out the idea.

[Destroyer]

And that's why he's not a songwriter, my friend.  Merely a decent lyricist who relies on others for a complete song.  Not a hatchet job - as I said I admire so much he's done, well more than I'll ever accomplish - but it is what it is.  And this is not a glorification of Brian either.  It's just facts. 

[Jason]

Michael's achievements are modest in the grand scheme of things indeed. Of course I'm more cynical and argue that even Dennis' contributions outweigh everyone else's (bar Brian from 1961-67) combined.

[Destroyer]

Dennis was the Marvin Gaye to everyone else's Jordinaires.

[Jason]

Bad analogy. A better one would be that Dennis was the Diana Ross to everyone else's rest of the Motown roster, from a Berry Gordy point of view.

[Dancing Bear]

Nor does Mike write songs.  He writes lyrics and relies on musicians to end up with real songs. (...) But Mike Love writes lyrics, not songs.  Dennis wrote songs.  Carl wrote songs.  Thank (insert deity or lack thereof here) that Brian still is.

Oh my. and then...

And that's why he's not a songwriter, my friend.  Merely a decent lyricist who relies on others for a complete song.  Not a hatchet job - as I said I admire so much he's done, well more than I'll ever accomplish - but it is what it is.  And this is not a glorification of Brian either.  It's just facts.

 
Ok, how much are you willing to adjust your 'facts' about Mike's songwriting? Just drop it.

But then, the very pinnacle of Saturday... 

Michael's achievements are modest in the grand scheme of things indeed. Of course I'm more cynical and argue that even Dennis' contributions outweigh everyone else's (bar Brian from 1961-67) combined.

Oh my. You sir know NOTHING about music whatsoever and this forum would be better off without your "contributions". Jeez...

[Wilsonista]

Destroyer is a breath of fresh air.

And you just dissed a mod at the same time (especially when he just said something that can't really be disagreed with).  Maybe the board would better off without circus animals?

[oldsurferdude]

Destroyer is a breath of fresh air.

And you just dissed a mod at the same time (especially when he just said something that can't really be disagreed with).  Maybe the board would better off without circus animals?

Right on RobMac!

[Dancing Bear]

And you just dissed a mod at the same time (especially when he just said something that can't really be disagreed with).  Maybe the board would better off without circus animals?

Really? 

Hey, you can always complain to this same mod about my behaviour. Good luck with that!