Summer In Paradise - airbrushed from history?

[southbay]

I liked Carl's vocal on that "Lahaina" song. God, I hate admitting it.

You don't have to hate admitting it. All of Carl's vocals on SIP are excellent. Actually, I think it's one of his best Beach Boys' albums vocally.

It's a shame Brian and Carl didn't contribute any songs to the project. That's my biggest disappointment, that two Beach Boys didn't write any songs for a new Beach Boys' album. And that Brian chose to not even show up.

It is actually 3, right? Carl, Brian AND Al (who also barely showed up, unfortunately) failed to write for SIP, unless you count Surfin'.  I have always held that SIP was saved by Carl and Al's vocals.  To add to SJS, may be the best vocal work for EITHER of them. 

[wiggbuggie]

as a fan of 80s music and bands like survivor and journey I think the BB stuff in the 80s and early 90s is good. I really like the 85 album but most people don't like that era

[brianc]

I like that era, and I love synthesizers and drum machines. Just not much for stadium rock.

[Sheriff John Stone]

And to the topic of "Summer in Paradise"... well, there's a million things wrong with it...

There's a "Shut Down" sax solo vibe that Mike never lost. I give him credit for keeping it simple. Just wish he might have gotten out of the way a bit more when it came to Brian making music that wasn't as simple.

brianc, there was a thread a little while back - started by me - about "salvaging" SIP. So, if you've read this before, just click on the next topic.... Addressing your first point, I feel 4-5 songs from Brian and a couple from Carl would've gone a long way in making SIP a good album. Mike is consistently criticized for SIP, which is ironic, because it might be among his best albums. He did his job, co-writing (with Terry Melcher) "Island Fever", "Still Surfin", "Strange Things Happen", "Lahaina Aloha", and "Summer In Paradise". Those are good songs, not great, but good.

What Mike needed was some help from the two Wilsons to compliment his songs. People have posted that Mike didn't want help, or rejected songs, but I've never read/heard anything from Brian or Carl to substantiate that. If Brian would've offered something like "You're Still A Mystery", or if Carl would've submitted something like "Like A Brother", do you really think Mike would've said, "Nah, I'll pass...". I don't think so.

And, brianc, in addressing your second point.... With the possible exception of a three month period in late 1966 (which is debatable because Mike did contribute excellent work), can you give me an example of when Mike Love got in the way of Brian making music that wasn't simple?

[MBE]

The only other time Mike didn't seem to like something was the Big Band session.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

If anyone wanted to be really honest, Imaginations is not any better then SIP. I think that its simply the fact that Brian wrote Imaginations and Mike wrote SIP, people autimatically asume its better.

Although lyrically, they may have a point. But musically, its just as good.

Of course since Mike mainly wrote the awful lyrics and Brian mainly wrote the music, doesn't help Mikes cause. But Terry Melcher's music in the 90s seems as good as much of Brian's in the 90s.

[phirnis]

Imagination does obviously not contain a single song as atrociously bad as Summer of Love. That said, Sunshine probably comes pretty close...

In my book, both Still Surfin' and Lahaina Aloha (which I prefer over Kokomo) are very decent songs and there's quite a few more that are nowhere near as bad as the record's reputation (Strange Things Happen, for instance). Still, the whole thing reeks of mid-nineties Baywatch bullmerda and some of the songs sound downright soulless and contrived.

I'd give Imagination a 7/10 and SIP a 4/10.

[PongHit]

I heard a rumor that Brian burned the SIP tapes...

[elnombre]

Imagination does obviously not contain a single song as atrociously bad as Summer of Love. That said, Sunshine probably comes pretty close...

In my book, both Still Surfin' and Lahaina Aloha (which I prefer over Kokomo) are very decent songs and there's quite a few more that are nowhere near as bad as the record's reputation (Strange Things Happen, for instance). Still, the whole thing reeks of mid-nineties Baywatch bullmerda and some of the songs sound downright soulless and contrived.

I'd give Imagination a 7/10 and SIP a 4/10.

Agreed, Imagination is far better than SIP. Just 'Lay Down Burden' on a loop for half an hour would kick the sh*t out of SIP.

Imagination is clunky, but well-intended. Summer In Paradise is just an embarrassment.
Back to my original question - does anyone have any quotes from Mike or Brian on the album? 

[brianc]

**And, brianc, in addressing your second point.... With the possible exception of a three month period in late 1966 (which is debatable because Mike did contribute excellent work), can you give me an example of when Mike Love got in the way of Brian making music that wasn't simple?**

I have no recorded evidence, of the type like the 1965 Murry/Brian studio fight... no. Only Mike's comments over the years about not liking Van Dyke's lyrics on "Smile," thinking that "Pet Sounds" the album would alienate their fanbase, and of course, the TV movie Mike made back in 2001. His feelings about 1966-67 has been crystal clear. He gave Brian his chances, in the end, but not without putting up resistence. We don't know the extant of it, but Mike has admitted it, so has Marilyn, Brian, Carl and everyone else involved with "Pet Sounds" and "Smile," including their lyricists. Go back through your Beach Boys documentaries from the '80s and '90s and check out the sections relating to those two albums. The interviewees do not mince words.

[Dancing Bear]

**And, brianc, in addressing your second point.... With the possible exception of a three month period in late 1966 (which is debatable because Mike did contribute excellent work), can you give me an example of when Mike Love got in the way of Brian making music that wasn't simple?**

I have no recorded evidence, of the type like the 1965 Murry/Brian studio fight... no. Only Mike's comments over the years about not liking Van Dyke's lyrics on "Smile," thinking that "Pet Sounds" the album would alienate their fanbase, and of course, the TV movie Mike made back in 2001. His feelings about 1966-67 has been crystal clear. He gave Brian his chances, in the end, but not without putting up resistence. We don't know the extant of it, but Mike has admitted it, so has Marilyn, Brian, Carl and everyone else involved with "Pet Sounds" and "Smile," including their lyricists. Go back through your Beach Boys documentaries from the '80s and '90s and check out the sections relating to those two albums. The interviewees do not mince words.

Hey, you forgot the H&V's rant. 

"The TV movie Mike made".... While it's clear where you see Mike's ego entering the script - him saving the day etc - it's absolutely not a Mikefest. What about the wife beating? And he'd NEVER write into the script that he refused to sing the "Geronimo lyrics". The guy had a work ethic, if he disagreed with something in a band he was part of, he voiced his opinion, but in the end of the day he got the work done. After all, it's him singing in Cabinessence.

"The extant of it" will always be debatable, because for a start the world going around Brian wasn't the healthiest environment. And yes, Mike had his share in the craziness. Something about the hability to make rational decisions that plagued every Beach Boy. Anyway, I don't think Brian gave a crap about what Mike thought or felt, or he'd have cleaned up the songwriting credits mess himself. He fired Murry when it suited him.

[Mr. Wilson]

Imagination lp is in same league as SIP... Please you must be kidding.. If your serious please listen again..!!

[Dancing Bear]

The difference between SIP and Imagination is that one I downloaded, listened to twice and deleted, the other I bought, listened to twice and gave away.

[donald]

I like the song Hot Fun but I find the BB version hard to take.   That stupid digital/dance rhythm, the thin production, the lack of decent BB harmony, ...................great song....good cover choice........terible recording.

All  in all, the album reminds me of a cross between a ML album mated with MIU and a Bruce tune or two.

Damn shame when you stilll had all the ingredients for a good album;  Carl Wilson, Brian Wilson, harmony, good songs in the can, great covers to choose from, and to toss off that thing instead??

[the captain]

If anyone wanted to be really honest, Imaginations is not any better then SIP. I think that its simply the fact that Brian wrote Imaginations and Mike wrote SIP, people autimatically asume its better.

Although lyrically, they may have a point. But musically, its just as good.

Of course since Mike mainly wrote the awful lyrics and Brian mainly wrote the music, doesn't help Mikes cause. But Terry Melcher's music in the 90s seems as good as much of Brian's in the 90s.

Choose the response you prefer.

1. I'm glad you pointed out my dishonesty, because I wasn't aware of it. I'm forever in your debt.

2. Imagination is pretty bad, largely because of the production; SIP is flat-out atrocious for every reason except maybe some vocal performances. "Your Imagination" alone--for all its cheese--makes Imagination an album that deserves to exist. SIP has no corresponding song. Add that Imagination has solid songs like Cry, Lay Down Burden and She Says That..., and it's not even remotely close. Again, I don't even really like Imagination much, but it's still not close. SIP is laughably bad. Really, very funny. It sounds like it was a joke. It's fucking garbage. Imagination, that's just unfortunate.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

If anyone wanted to be really honest, Imaginations is not any better then SIP. I think that its simply the fact that Brian wrote Imaginations and Mike wrote SIP, people autimatically asume its better.

Although lyrically, they may have a point. But musically, its just as good.

Of course since Mike mainly wrote the awful lyrics and Brian mainly wrote the music, doesn't help Mikes cause. But Terry Melcher's music in the 90s seems as good as much of Brian's in the 90s.

Choose the response you prefer.

1. I'm glad you pointed out my dishonesty, because I wasn't aware of it. I'm forever in your debt.

2. Imagination is pretty bad, largely because of the production; SIP is flat-out atrocious for every reason except maybe some vocal performances. "Your Imagination" alone--for all its cheese--makes Imagination an album that deserves to exist. SIP has no corresponding song. Add that Imagination has solid songs like Cry, Lay Down Burden and She Says That..., and it's not even remotely close. Again, I don't even really like Imagination much, but it's still not close. SIP is laughably bad. Really, very funny. It sounds like it was a joke. It's fodaing garbage. Imagination, that's just unfortunate.

 I keep hearing this 'poor production' thing about "Imagination".  I'm no audio expert but it sounds really, really good on my iPod!

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I am not a Mike Love fan in any way!  But I think Mike did the very best he could writing and putting an album together.  I think of SIP as a Mike Love solo album with Bruce, Carl and Al helping out.

[the captain]

I keep hearing this 'poor production' thing about "Imagination".  I'm no audio expert but it sounds really, really good on my iPod!

The issue is more taste than technical quality. The album has a very late 80s adult contemporary sound to it (funny, considering it came out in the late 90s). There are those atmospheric keyboard sounds rather than traditional instruments--or even interesting, jagged burbling synths, a la Love You. There are suddenly nylon-string guitars, and little electric guitar noodlings. There is cheesy reverb-to-eternity on the drums. None of it sounds like the sort of thing one would expect from Brian Wilson, first of all, and regardless of who did it, it's just so tasteless. It's sugary. Syrupy. Over-the-top. Obvious. It brings to mind lite-metal power ballads or Celine Dion more than the man who some people think is the greatest producer ever.

So it's not to my taste. If it's to yours, lucky you.

[Sheriff John Stone]

**And, brianc, in addressing your second point.... With the possible exception of a three month period in late 1966 (which is debatable because Mike did contribute excellent work), can you give me an example of when Mike Love got in the way of Brian making music that wasn't simple?**

I have no recorded evidence, of the type like the 1965 Murry/Brian studio fight... no. Only Mike's comments over the years about not liking Van Dyke's lyrics on "Smile," thinking that "Pet Sounds" the album would alienate their fanbase, and of course, the TV movie Mike made back in 2001. His feelings about 1966-67 has been crystal clear. He gave Brian his chances, in the end, but not without putting up resistence. We don't know the extant of it, but Mike has admitted it, so has Marilyn, Brian, Carl and everyone else involved with "Pet Sounds" and "Smile," including their lyricists. Go back through your Beach Boys documentaries from the '80s and '90s and check out the sections relating to those two albums. The interviewees do not mince words.

I already admitted Mike's displeasure with SMiLE (that's MY quote you're addressing BTW), so the only other example you gave of Mike's "getting in the way" of Brian's making music that wasn't simple would be Pet Sounds - and I don't agree with you. Mike would've had to do it through the mail or over the telephone because The Beach Boys were on tour for much of the recording of Pet Sounds. Also, having listened to the Pet Sounds boxed set several times, I don't believe I ever heard Brian mention Mike Love's name while recording the tracks. Was Mike there, getting in the way?

Mike did object to the lyrics of one song, "Hang On To Your Ego", and I believe they were changed for the better. Mike also wrote the ending lyrics to "Wouldn't It Be Nice", which I think are a nice addition to the song. Is that what you mean by "getting in the way"? If Mike didn't get in Brian's way during the making of Pet Sounds, how much differently do YOU think it would've sounded?

[Sheriff John Stone]

The issue is more taste than technical quality. The album has a very late 80s adult contemporary sound to it (funny, considering it came out in the late 90s).

1992

[the captain]

The issue is more taste than technical quality. The album has a very late 80s adult contemporary sound to it (funny, considering it came out in the late 90s).

1992

What is 1992? Imagination came out in '98.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The issue is more taste than technical quality. The album has a very late 80s adult contemporary sound to it (funny, considering it came out in the late 90s).

1992

What is 1992? Imagination came out in '98.

Sorry, Luther. That's what I get for reading posts in reverse order. I thought you were referring to the release date of SIP. Lost my head again....

[brianc]

In a perfect world, Brian Wilson would have released the Wilson/Paley sessions with or without the Beach Boys in 1996, and followed it up with his own production of "Imagination." Unfortunately, the former sits dormant, while the latter sounds like an adult contemporary mess.

The Wilson/Paley sessions have the right balance of Brian Wilson introspection and quirkly slice-of-life songs, while "Imagination," lyrically, is very optimistic. I like some of those songs very much, but not even one of the productions sounds good.

[Pretty Funky]

Any Aussies able to answer my SIP question?
I happened to be at the BB concert in Brisbane in the early 90s and prior to the show various BB tracks (several eras) were being played over the address system. Then 'Island Fever' was played and the audience started applauding and cheering! I thought WTF?

Did that track get some airplay locally, or even in Australia?