Carl's "favorite chords" pictures...again

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I'm almost sure I asked for this a few times before, but does anybody have a scan of the article where Carl plays some of his favorite chords on his Rickenbacker and they have the pictures of all of them?  Circa 65 or so?

Thanks.

[audiodrome]

Josh

Is this the book you're looking for?



If so, I can post the pictures some time tomorrow.

Paul

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

That might be what I'm thinking of is from...are there a bunch of pictures of Carl's hands as he shapes chords?

Very cool, either way I'd love to see more!  Thanks!

[PongHit]

Here's one...

[PMcC]

I have never NEVER seen a G chorded like that!! Using a finger to capture the D note on the A string, when everybody I've ever known plays the B on the A string. And look at the way he's making his A7....I'm going to have to try this, that's for sure. The most unusual chordings I've seen in a while. Incredible.

[pixletwin]

I have never NEVER seen a G chorded like that!! Using a finger to capture the D note on the A string, when everybody I've ever known plays the B on the A string. And look at the way he's making his A7....I'm going to have to try this, that's for sure. The most unusual chordings I've seen in a while. Incredible.

Its just a bar chord using a thumb. Incredible?   

[PMcC]

Yes, it has the qualities of a barre chord, but it's more open. When was the last time you saw someone hitting the low G with their thumb, and using a third finger to hit a D on an A string, without it being barred? And how quickly could you switch to that one?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yes, it has the qualities of a barre chord, but it's more open. When was the last time you saw someone hitting the low G with their thumb, and using a third finger to hit a D on an A string, without it being barred? And how quickly could you switch to that one?

I don't think that's a particularly unusual voicing or fingering.  I think now-a-days it might be rarer since people seem to do things one way in terms of guitar teaching, but I have several chord books from the 50s and 60s with that fingering in there.  They're mostly jazz chord books, and I think in jazz you'll see a lot of thumb-on-the-bass string to extend voicings you couldn't get otherwise.

I think rock and roll in the 60s had a much closer relationship to jazz, at least, I have a feeling a lot of the people playing guitar learned through former jazz guys, or blues guys, whereas now we're a generation removed from that.

[pixletwin]

Yes, it has the qualities of a barre chord, but it's more open. When was the last time you saw someone hitting the low G with their thumb, and using a third finger to hit a D on an A string, without it being barred? And how quickly could you switch to that one?

OK. But its the same exact voicings you would get on a bar chord. I still don't see what the big deal is. As far as switching from chord to chord, like any chord it just takes a bit of routine and the switches are seamless.

[the captain]

Yes, it has the qualities of a barre chord, but it's more open. When was the last time you saw someone hitting the low G with their thumb, and using a third finger to hit a D on an A string, without it being barred? And how quickly could you switch to that one?

I do that voicing quite a lot. In fact--and I am not lying, and just am looking at this thread for the first time--I used it this evening while recording. You'll see Hendrix use it sometimes in performances of Purple Haze. SRV used to play chords that way all the time. I use a thumb on the E string for a lot of major 7s, minor 7s and dominant 7s, too. For me, fingering chords up the neck that way is usually the easiest way.

EDIT: I looked closer, and I lied. Generally the way I finger when using the thumb on a root is to skip the A string and double the root on the D, then playing 3rd, 5th and maybe root. That is also the way Hendrix and SRV did it. So the preceding paragraph is false. In my face... END EDIT.

One interesting thing, though, aeijtzsche, when I studied jazz guitar in college, my teacher actually really discouraged using the thumb like that. He tried his best to get me to use  (usually) the index finger on the E string, generally skipping the A string to keep too many lower pitches from muddying things up, and then the other fingers to handle (usually) 7th, 3rd and whatever else (be it 5th, 9th, etc.). Sometimes he'd favor the middle finger on the E, though, especially to grab 6ths with the index.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

EDIT: I looked closer, and I lied. Generally the way I finger when using the thumb on a root is to skip the A string and double the root on the D, then playing 3rd, 5th and maybe root. That is also the way Hendrix and SRV did it. So the preceding paragraph is false. In my face... END EDIT.

The angles the photos were taken from make it really hard to see Carl's hands precisely.

One interesting thing, though, aeijtzsche, when I studied jazz guitar in college, my teacher actually really discouraged using the thumb like that. He tried his best to get me to use  (usually) the index finger on the E string, generally skipping the A string to keep too many lower pitches from muddying things up, and then the other fingers to handle (usually) 7th, 3rd and whatever else (be it 5th, 9th, etc.). Sometimes he'd favor the middle finger on the E, though, especially to grab 6ths with the index.

Mine was pretty anti-thumb as well, but I think that's also indicative of a new school thing, and it's probably good to encourage that from a pedagogy standpoint, since hanging your thumb over the fingerboard can lead to a lot of problems if you're not careful.  Still, I've seen all kinds of stuff by Tal Farlow, or John McLaughlin, where the only possible way to finger a chord is to do it their way, with the thumb involved.  When it's useful, well, why not use it?

I'll add too, that I learned the basic shape for that chord from John Lennon on early TV Beatles appearances on the Anthology videos.

Plus, if you haven't played for awhile and your stamina is down, that "grip" can save some soreness in your wrist.

[the captain]

  When it's useful, well, why not use it?

Amen to that. As time has gone on, I've become a proponent of learning things as they are taught me, but not necessarily going forward with that learned material as gospel.

[shelter]

I have never NEVER seen a G chorded like that!! Using a finger to capture the D note on the A string, when everybody I've ever known plays the B on the A string.

Exactly what I thought. I only use my thumb to mute the lower strings, but never to grab chords. It seems a bit uncomfortable to me.

[audiodrome]

I haven't forgotten - I will dig out that book today and see if there's more than what was already posted here.

[PMcC]

Exactly what I thought. I only use my thumb to mute the lower strings, but never to grab chords. It seems a bit uncomfortable to me.........................


....I'm with you. I've been playing for a lot of years, and the only thing my thumb can do is act as support for the fretboard as I use these other fingers to find the chords. The fact that Carl is using a thumb to finger the low G, not to mention that jazzy fingering of the A7, is incredible to me. But everybody learns their own ways, I guess, and what is comfortable to them thru the years becomes their style. We are taking a peek into Carl's guitar styling, with a G that pretends to be a barre chord, but has a more open D, for a nice ringing, almost drone-like feel to it.

[markcharles75]

Well I just wanted to add my two cents.  Those shapes Carl is using do not seem that unusual to  me. I would rather (instead of open G) and if I wanted to get a barre chord sound, thumb it like Carl does. I have been doing that for years and do not find it unusual or hard.

In addition, if I am playing something like Walk Away Renee by the Left Banke on acoustic, I employ my thumb to the utmost. If not, the whole character of the song is lost.  For example, the chord progression (for the verse "and when I see the sign that...") starts with A, then goes to E BUT with the third (G#) as the bass note, then to Emin with G (minor third as bass note) etc...You get the picture.  If you just "strummed " A to E to E minor it sounds totally wrong.   Now, I do this when I accompany myself.  However, if I was with a band, I probably would not need to play those bass notes because I would have a bass player covering that turf.  I suspect Carl did this when playing God only Knows live, only playing the chord stabs (the highlight of the chord) and letting the bass player define the character of those chords.  I do not think he actually played, say, A/E.  He probably just played a chord stab of A.  Same with E/G#.  I suspect he just played the E and let the bass play the G#.  Now where he played, say, the E?  a full barre?  a half of a barre of E (i.e. a chord stab)? ANY song I start to learn I instantly say "OK, what are the chords, what is the bass notes and its relation to the chords."  That to me is THE key to any song.  The rest is icing. That is why I love the Beach Boys so much: cool bass notes in relation to chords.

My suggestion to any novice guitar players is to learn your shapes all over the neck. Take one chord, for example, A Major, and learn it up and down the neck.  Take out notes and you have little chord stabs.  There is no great mystery to the guitar.  It all depends on how much work you want to put into it, mixed of course with some natural talent and disposition towards music.

[Emdeeh]

Al and Carl both use/d the thumb-style of playing in concert, as well as using regular barre chords. I've noticed other guitarists over the years using thumbed chords as well.

The questions about thumbing chords ought to be put to David Marks via Carrie. Perhaps it's a style he and Carl were taught.

[pixletwin]

Al and Carl both use/d the thumb-style of playing in concert, as well as using regular barre chords. I've noticed other guitarists over the years using thumbed chords as well.

The questions about thumbing chords ought to be put to David Marks via Carrie. Perhaps it's a style he and Carl were taught.

Could be. I know if you watch alot of early beatle concerts, John uses the same chord stylings.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I'd love to know what Dave says, particularly my observation vis-a-vis how he was taught being a generation closer to some source.

[Carrie Marks]

Coincidently, David was on the phone with John Walker when I read this post.  He said that is the way John taught them and he also started off using his thumb like that...but 'eventually learned the right way.'  John still uses his thumb the same way Carl is in the photos.