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579579 Posts in 19161 Topics by 3356 Members - Latest Member: SoulJones June 29, 2016, 12:23:27 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Are We Skewing The Meaning of (Beach Boys) Songs? on: June 27, 2016, 10:42:30 AM
I don't know what the sexual mores were like in Hawthorne in the earky 1960s, but Marilyn's parents seemed okay with it and I wonder of that five year age difference was that uncommon at the time. Obviously, things have moved on in most respects. I, too, regard Brian and whoever as writing in character when it comes to those mid-70s songs (and maybe for cathartic, therapeutical reasons) - not unlike Springsteen's endless litany of girls whose names end in y - okay, their ages aren't given, but you kinda figure out he's singing about a more youthful version of himself.  When asked about some inflammatory statement in a song by Eminem, Randy Newman pointed out that he was writing in role just like he often does - and noted, after all, that he didn't really hate short people.


Admittedly, I don't think it pays to look too closely to the way the stars and music of the period treated girls, whether that's 33 year-old Ringo singing, "You're Sixteen," 29 year-old Jackson Browne lamenting the loss of a sixteen year-old to the drummer in "Rosie" or  the reality of Jimmy Page with his 14 year-old groupie (or David Bowie who - according to internet scuttlebutt, 'knew' her a year earlier. I remember reading years ago an interview with Noddy Holder of Slade in which he - allegedly -  talked about groupies and noted that they asked their age, but once they said they were 16 or older, the band didn't ask any more questions.
2  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 20, 2016, 01:16:58 AM
But don't you see, you're the one who keeps bringing this up? The only one, in fact. Nobody else seems worried. For whose benefit is all this?
3  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 19, 2016, 11:25:04 PM
As for the fees. what answer would you like to hear?
4  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 19, 2016, 12:31:38 PM
Cough it up, Doc - Who is paying the bills?
Did you not read what I wrote above? Swedishfrog and myself are footing the bill. How much do you think it costs? Oh, I'm betting that you think someone famous is footing the bill, huh? Maybe I should ask, no? Maybe having a patron would be a cool thing. You know, like Michel Angelo or Leonardo da Vinci. Wink

Did I just read that?
5  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Oops on: June 13, 2016, 01:09:34 PM
I dunno. I've gone back through the last four pages - which is all I can tolerate - and I don't see new posters or those posting under an alias that's the problem
6  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Oops on: June 13, 2016, 11:18:50 AM
 Roll Eyes
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 13, 2016, 11:06:24 AM
Having successfully guided the band into a place in the early 70's "progressive rock" scene, or whatever you want to call it, could Rieley -- if he had remained -- likewise transition the Beach Boys into the late 70's, early 80's New Wave era?

I think it highly unlikely. Which "dinosaur" acts did make that transition? Paul Simon? Fleetwood Mac, to a minor extent?

Hod on. Disco's first and that didn't work out for the boys.
8  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Oops on: June 11, 2016, 01:11:26 AM
This was John k's Welcome thread.
john is easygoing; he wouldn't mind it being moved. & what you meant by that dot post?

Deleted.  Cool
9  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Thread for arguments with or about moderation on: June 10, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby sulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.

Y'know, I don't recall anyone over there trashing your good name.

C'mon. By deleting that content, they are deliberately sabotaging this board.

So the only people who are the little baby sulkers and the malignant and the maligned are the people removing stuff they posted. So that's how many? Steve Mayo? I mean, it is his stuff, isn't it?
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Q & A with Marilyn Wilson and Ginger Blake of the Honeys by Ken Sharp on: June 10, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Deleted.  Shocked
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 10, 2016, 11:12:42 AM
"So you are of the opinion that the only possible songs that Jack could have contributed to the band, or that Jack could help influence the direction of the band in, had he stayed in the band past Holland, would be dirge-like war protest songs? "

I'd rather have that than much of the stuff that followed. As fan I can make excuses and see the good in fairly average songs - even going as far as justifying some of those fun in the sun numbers like It's Okay and Woncha Come Out Tonight - but no album - apart from the quirkiness of Love You - can come close to Holland. Look at the potential of LA from the tracks lying around or at least begun around that time, but no, let's pollute the good stuff with considerably lesser stuff (though at least we didn't get Calendar Girl). Love You aside, in terms of albums with genuinely decent new music since Holland, we've had half of LA and half of TWGMTR (plus all of POB and BW88) - that's obviously not to dismiss the genuine worth some great 'new' tracks on weaker albums like Had to Phone Ya and My Diane. I don't think Carl ever wrote as good a song as those he wrote with Jack. That, in itself, is telling.

However, I do think the loss of Murry is surely a huge factor in the kind of implosion that went on.
12  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Thread for arguments with or about moderation on: June 10, 2016, 07:23:15 AM
The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby skulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.

Y'know, I don't recall anyone over there trashing your good name.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / 21st Century Beach Boys Albums / Re: That's Why God Made The Radio on: June 09, 2016, 02:43:20 AM
 It's not exactly a great album.
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Oops on: June 08, 2016, 11:39:02 PM
Deleted.  Grin
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 08, 2016, 11:30:09 AM
I think what we *did* get out of the Rieley era, coupled with the *43 YEARS* or so since it all happened, in addition to Rieley's death, means some folks find it easier to find the good in what came out of the Rieley era and not dwell too much on what *could* have happened.

43 years... And studio-wise most of it in a downhill direction
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 07, 2016, 11:42:49 AM
True. Remember Bobby Brown Goes Down? Hardly the product of a fiercely Conservative (with a capital C) creative mind.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 07, 2016, 09:23:03 AM
I seem to remember a quote or interview from Bruce were he said he had issues with Jack's truthiness, let's say.  I seem to remember him giving Jack's resume as an example and saying something like the he checked and the Peabody Award people (or whoever) never heard of the guy or something.  Anybody else remember something like that?

Yep, the Politzer Prize incident and other past (alleged) employment experiences  - Also I believe (don't know where I read it, sorry if i'm off the mark) Bruce questioned Jack's sexuality

I have not heard that one Rob, do you (or anyone) remember the source by any chance.  Not that the opinion would be shocking for back in that day.

True, though Bruce worked with Curt Becher too.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 07, 2016, 05:20:55 AM

Mike opined to Val Mabbs of Record Mirror that Bruce “left because he wasn’t too happy about things.  It was decided that because of a couple of feelings harbored by different members of the group and the way things went with Bruce developing a solo career it made it more or less an uncompromising situation.”

It's interesting how Bruce "going solo" might have been a contributing factor to him leaving and/or feuding with Jack. Not that the going solo thing being a cause of tension would be a unique case to this band, but there may be possible parallels to the strife Denny encountered from within the band (not sure if it was coming from more than just Mike) when Denny himself wanted to do a solo tour.

I wonder if it was discussed if Bruce would potentially have a solo career in tandem to being in the band at the same time. I can also see how the political mindset of a guy writing Disney Girls (which I love, by the way) could be at complete odds with someone pushing the band in a vastly more left-leaning political direction.

Do you think Bruce has always been a country-club "Obama is an asshole" bring back the 50's kind of guy? Seems so strange that he could be enveloped by the culture going on around him and not alter those opinions at all  Shocked

There's a quote from Bruce - in the Granata book, I think - in which he pines for the days of turning up to the recording studio in a nice sweater...

19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike's contribution to Kokomo on: June 06, 2016, 09:55:49 AM
I always hated that song because it wasn't what I wanted the aging Beach Boys to be doing - you know, this kind of lounge rock. But... it's a catchy tune, it got them exposure and Carl's vocals are particularly good - and it led to a semi-rewrite with Still Cruisin' (though that may not be a good thing). hate the sax bit almost as much as I hate the sax bit in California Dreamin'. Certainly not the worst thing they ever did. It's a pity that whatever creative touch Melcher and Usher had in the 60s had deserted them by the time they crossed paths with Mike and Brian respectively in this later period.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 06, 2016, 09:49:26 AM
Nether Dennis nor Mike seemed keen to rush to his defence when he left, but the only studio album he isn't on after he joined is MIU; he's on all the Rieley albums but the live one, he's the only other BB credited on POB and he was back with the band in 79 and he's Mike's road buddy. You'll notice he doesn't feature in the groups photo on Ten Years of Harmony, allegedly at Carl's request because he hadn't been a member of the band for much of the decade, yet he's on three albums as a BB at the start of the decade and two at the end, as well as the others he appeared on. Seems a tad harsh, but now I think of it, I seem to remember Carl's name being attached to the attempt to replace him with Billy, but who knows. Strange, dysfunctional group of people...

Strange for Carl of all people to be so petty

The story of how Carl decided on the "Ten Years..." artwork actually makes it sound like he put a lot of thought into it. It's worth remembering that in 1981, Bruce's position within the band probably wasn't crystal clear. He was "in" the band certainly, but I don't know if any of them knew or anticipated how long he'd be back in the band. At that point, the band had been going for 20 years and Bruce had been a member for about half that time.

It's also worth noting that that particular story may not be wholly accurate, or may lack some detail. Are there any first-hand reports or quotes, or is it just another one of those "rumored/alleged" stories?

Well, I read it on here! Remember that the album only contained stuff from 1970 - 1980 (or the albums released in that period, because some of the songs were recorded earlier). I still think it's odd, but then they're an odd bunch.

I wonder about the politics, as far as Jack and Bruce are concerned. I can't imagine they saw eye to eye.

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 06, 2016, 08:32:41 AM
Nether Dennis nor Mike seemed keen to rush to his defence when he left, but the only studio album he isn't on after he joined is MIU; he's on all the Rieley albums but the live one, he's the only other BB credited on POB and he was back with the band in 79 and he's Mike's road buddy. You'll notice he doesn't feature in the groups photo on Ten Years of Harmony, allegedly at Carl's request because he hadn't been a member of the band for much of the decade, yet he's on three albums as a BB at the start of the decade and two at the end, as well as the others he appeared on. Seems a tad harsh, but now I think of it, I seem to remember Carl's name being attached to the attempt to replace him with Billy, but who knows. Strange, dysfunctional group of people...

Strange for Carl of all people to be so petty

He may not have been being petty. Who knows what went on. Billy was his brother in law at them time too.Who knows? Maybe they just had a falling out that week.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 06, 2016, 07:00:25 AM
Once of Bruce's claims was that Jack was making it look like Brian was more involved than he was
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Observer: It’s Time to Destroy ‘the Legend of Brian Wilson’ on: June 06, 2016, 05:42:00 AM
"There’s every bit of evidence that a Brian-less Beach Boys could have been a joyous and logical continuation of the band’s ideals and aural achievements.

Personally, I would argue that post-SMiLE, Brian Wilson wasn’t just a shadow of himself, but less than a shadow; the most Brian-driven of the post-SMiLE albums, The Beach Boys Love You, is bizarre and psychologically fascinating, but the people who insist that it’s a great album are like those who scan those tepid and twisted Alex Chilton solo albums for Big Star-esque greatness. It ain’t there, bubbelah; go back and listen without trying really, really hard to like it."

1, Brian was more involved in those post Smile albums than people once thought - at least up to a point.
2. One aspect of the legend that could be done away with is the one about Brian being in bed for X years.There may have been spells, but it's not quite like the song.
3. When the sh*t does hit the fan for the BB (Murry's death, anyone), it affects all of them. The output of the allegedly Brian-less band after the live album cannot compare with the riches of 67-73 and that includes music by Mike, who may well be the greatest human being the author has ever met - though I suspect he needs to get out more). In fact, Love You aside (yeah, I'm one of the fans), Brian's contributions often aren't up to much either.
4. I don't think the author has much of an understanding of the BB's post-Brian output. I've seen Mike and Bruce and really enjoyed their show and I would advise anyone who hasn't, to go see them, but he's kidding himself if he thinks that post 73 output is that good. Looking back, the huge mistake was not to take more of a leaf out of Dennis' book - he should have been elevated to main songwriter.

You can always come over to the other borad, Iain.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Bruce and Jack disagree over? on: June 06, 2016, 05:33:24 AM
Nether Dennis nor Mike seemed keen to rush to his defence when he left, but the only studio album he isn't on after he joined is MIU; he's on all the Rieley albums but the live one, he's the only other BB credited on POB and he was back with the band in 79 and he's Mike's road buddy. You'll notice he doesn't feature in the groups photo on Ten Years of Harmony, allegedly at Carl's request because he hadn't been a member of the band for much of the decade, yet he's on three albums as a BB at the start of the decade and two at the end, as well as the others he appeared on. Seems a tad harsh, but now I think of it, I seem to remember Carl's name being attached to the attempt to replace him with Billy, but who knows. Strange, dysfunctional group of people...
25  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Sounds Forum on: June 05, 2016, 11:51:01 AM
And may I ask what said precise qualities are?
As I said above, even if a quarrel is not actually about Mike Love, there seems to be a fault line where one side of the quarrel will be people who frequently take a stance of defending ML and the other is people who frequently take a stance of criticizing him.
I think the bulk of the 'defending' people have moved there and the bulk of the 'critcizing' people have stayed here. Other people, of which there are many, have sorted themselves according to their comfort level with the individuals of those groups.
There are some people who could legitimately go back and forth without making waves in either place.

I'm no defender of the Lovester - apart from that which he should be defended for (i.e. most of his lyrics up to about 73 (and few after) and most of his vocals for the same period) - and I've registered there. The board's about The Beach Boys. Why would Iain be banned? Iain, if you're out there, give it a whirl...
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