Alrightey, this is going to be one hell of a topic of discussion, as it is going to be solely dependant on inferences based on the lost musical material Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, the Vosse Posse and just who ever else recorded throughout the burgeoning years of 1966-1967, for a tentative "Teenage Symphony to God" named "Smile." I'm here to ask all of you a question... Ready? Good. How many of you actually KNOW Smile? Not by how the songs go, but are there people out there who have firm knowledge of how Smile was meant to be showcased in 1967? Nope. Heck, if Brian wanted to, he could have just released the Psychedelic Sounds tapes as the Smile album, and we wouldn't be here discussing the topic 50 years from now! Of course that didn't happen, because Wilson obviously had more musical integrity than to commit such blasphemy in the name of music! (I love the Psychedelic Sounds boot, but it is not worthy of a stand-alone release. It could be synced up with some instrumental bits from the Smile project, and I would actually be alright with that, but not if it were a stand-alone release).
The point is, Brian and Van had ideas for Smile, ideas that in theory surpassed the psychedelic-hogwash that was released later that year, known as Sgt. Pepper's (I love that album on it's own, don't get me wrong, however, compared to what Smile was conceived to be, Pepper's was quite weak). Smile was a sort of musical tapestry of sorts, a peak of a man's imagination. A manifestation of history and culture from the past, present, and future, all brought back with an episodic-musical-acid-test, stream-of-consciousness sort of way. This is why we are still so engaged with the legend, the myth, and want to tap into the unknown. What is alleged is that Wilson, at one point during all of this madness, actually had a game-plan of how he was going to pull this all off. Here are suspicions based off of factual information, on how complete Smile actually was-

1. Missing I'm In Great Shape vocals(?)
- It is alleged by those who had once heard the tapes to this missing vocal session that all 6 of The Beach Boys recorded vocals on top of an alternative backing track that wasn't listed in the session books (supposedly). This is backed up by the fact that a very different instrumental version of Great Shape showed up in the Durrie Parks acetates, one that hasn't been heard before. It is described as much more heavier and pulsating. In Jules Siegel's piece written on the Smile sessions, in October(?) 1966, Wilson had a bunch of guests clang their kitchen utensils in a rhythmic way, to create percussive sounds to be used on the album. It is also rumoured that the missing Great Shape piece consisted of these noises, which would make sense since Workshop was written as Great Shape on a tape box, which leads me to believe that the Workshop construction noises were to be preceded by the kitchen utensil version of Great Shape.

- If Great Shape vocals were recorded that October, then why weren't Barnyard vocals recorded? Did Wilson decide to scrap Barnyard all together? Was he going to replace Barnyard with an alleged reworking of the song named Barnyard Billy? (I remember another forum member had questioned its existence).

2. Missing Surf's Up vocals
- Although, this doesn't pose the type of revelations the missing Great Shape piece could pose for the development of Heroes and Villains that October, it is nevertheless important, as it could give us a sense of how complete Smile was that December. We have evidence that it took place because we have another recording of Wonderful, that is circulating, that took place on the same day as the Surf's Up vocal sessions, so it is more than likely that this song was worked on too. If the Beach Boys did go through the song entirely, including Pt. 2, did the fade have Child is The Father of The Man vocals?

3. Missing Look vocals
- This is the most mysterious missing vocal bit from Smile. We have an idea of how Great Shape was supposed to work, based off of Brian's radio demo that November, and we have a released version of Surf's Up, so we also have an idea of how Surf's Up should have went like back then, but we have absolutely no idea what the lyrics were for this song, or what the melody was, etc. And why was this once called I Ran? Was this all connected to Cabin Essence or something? There isn't any information about this missing vocal session besides the fact that it supposedly happened.

4. Surf's Up Pt. 2 Instrumentation
- Wilson claimed in 2004 that the second part to Surf's Up's instrumentation consisted of an unheard string arrangement. Interestingly enough, Jules Siegel described a tracking session for a song consisting of strings circa December/January 1967, which got interrupted, due to Brian getting all worked up and paranoid about Siegel's girlfriend, accusing her of ESP and witchcraft... Those sessions could have been meant for anything, however...

5. With Me Tonight (w/ Bag Of Tricks percussion!!!)
- A member of this forum has claimed he has heard tapes of this song with Bag of Tricks-type percussive arrangements. This version was taped in late 1967.

6. Lost Tones/Tune X vocals
- This was brought forth by another member from this forum... He alleges there were vocal sessions for this song... I would like more insight on this topic, if possible. Could anyone confirm this claim?

7. The Air section from The Elements
- Brian claimed there was a piano piece that was meant to be the Air piece in his Elements suite that he envisioned for Smile. Of course, with all things Smile, it gets a little vague after that. Is there evidence such a piece was even recorded for Smile?

Of course, I can't gone on forever with this. I'd like you all to weigh in, and solve what had been deemed unsolvable. It's been 50 years for God's sake!

nice! good work

The bit from 5:30 - where is that from? never heard the vocal bit before i think, sounds great!

It's quite a common section that was used as an intro for Heroes in BWPS and TSS. Would Brian have used this section as an intro for Heroes and Villains in 1967? Depends, but the sessionography suggests otherwise

Happy birthday Al! Much happiness to you, your friends and family.

It is based on some edits Brian had made, or was trying to make (Disc 4 Edit, and Heroes and Villains Pt. 2 Edit from Smile Sessions)

Hey guys, have you heard rumours about the  6 edit minute of Heroes and Villains, compiled somewhere around March 1967? Well, it looks like we might never find it again, but I have made a reconstruction of that mythical lost mix of Heroes and Villains, and here it is-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ9oYCqCq6s

This Was My First Post

Welcome to the forum!

So, does anybody believe my theory has any credibility? To be honest, I don't know a speck of valid information compared to the Smile-enthusiasts on this board, so I'd love to hear their thoughts on this proposed theory, and whether it is likely Brian envision HV to be a part of some sort of 'Barnyard Suite.'

Interesting.

So in this scenario, is H&V proper only about 1 minute long? 

Well, Heroes could be the first part of the suite, a suite made out of four MODULAR songs, so I highly doubt Heroes would just be the first verse.

I am proposing a theory: Pre-December Heroes and Villains was actually part of an album suite, tentatively titled 'The Barnyard Suite.' To me, this suite was composed of four modular songs that somehow linked together, that all shared an underlying theme of Americana.
I'm in Great Shape, and Barnyard are commonly associated as being a part of this suite. The Old Master Painter was linked to Barnyard in the Smile Sessions set. The Old Master Painter also has a fade that was later reused as a fade for Heroes and Villains. ALL of these 'Barnyard Suite' songs are drawn from rough ideas for Heroes and Villains.
We all know GS and Barnyard where sections of Heroes and Villains.
DYLW's Bicycle Rider bit was an alleged chorus for Heroes and Villains post-December.
Heroes and Villains' Bridge to The Indians connects to Worms.
Workshop was also even a part of GS according to a tape box labelling. (Which leads me to believe the construction noises of Workshop symbolized building a Barnyard of some sort).

So, going by the December track list, these tracks would logically have to be in this order-

1. Heroes and Villains
2. Do You Like Worms?
3. I'm In Great Shape (including Workshop in between)
4. The Old Master Painter (w/ Sunshine Fade)

Either that, or Brian scrapped the suite in favour of an album single (*cough *cough* Cantina mix of HV*)

Thank you! Really, you think so? What is so genius in my list compared to the others' in your opinion?

BTW, my H&V mix ends with OMP/MOS/fade with MOS lyrics. The only famous SMiLE part I left out is IWBA/Workshop. Didn't fit anywhere, and suprisingly I don't miss it.

I'm very glad to see someone else putting together Worms and Cabin Essence. To me, I can't imagine that it was ever possible that they were meant to be apart.

Me too, I just heretically put CE before DYLW, as CE ends on a Cmin7 chord, and DYLW begins with its resolution F. Actually edited it right into the fade.


BTW, if you're interested, this is the version of Vega-Tables I cooked up as part of The Elements.

The fact you used You're Welcome as an opener to HV, and used to Prayer to connect SU and GV is quite commendable.

but the June 'my children' section doesn't have the 'often wise' melody

and if I remember rightly:

'great shape' is a heavier arrangement we haven't heard yet

'my children' has the 'often wise' melody

i wonder if 'great shape' has a similar feel to the very early takes of 'false barnyard' before the ychanged the rhythm..?

Mike, I think you might be right about that.  Sorry guys, but I believe that this is some kind of mix that includes early "false barnyard" with june '67 "my children.."

To support my claim if I'm not mistaken the guy who heard the acetate said there was bicycle rider part with kick drum that he never heard before and we all know about that part (SOT...), and DYDW with different voals whick have also been discussed on board here (Vigotone bootleg)....

But who knows, I would love to be proven wrong!

[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

[opener]

Mine is:

"You are Welcome" as opener (I see a lot of you guys use it at the end, it's shocking to me because after all, it's a welcome song Plus it begins with a great fade-in).

Plus it is in the same key as H&V, while Prayer is not.

My personal opinion is that while Prayer is a perfect opener for an album named "Dumb Angel", it sucks as an opener for an album named "SMiLE" with that cover. It is way too majestic and minor-key.

Is there any real evidence that Surf's Up was intended to be the closing track?

I don't think so but due to its sound and its content, I'm not sure what could possibly follow it while having it sound right.

Likewise, Surf's Up is not a good closer for an album named SMiLE. Here's my 12 track listing:

A.
1. You're Welcome
2. H&V
3. Cabin Essence
4. DYLW
5. On A Holiday
6. Wonderful
7. Song For Children

B.
1. CIFOTM
2. The Elements (V-T - LTSDD - Wind Chimes - MOLC)
3. Surf's Up
4. Prayer
5. Good Vibrations

By sheer coincidence, these two sides with my own edits clock in nearly the same length, just over 22:40 min each, thuns the whole album just over 45 minutes, still shorter than "Aftermath". Another neat thing is that side A ends with the melody that is reprised in GV which ends side B.

Im toying with the idea to change side B to:

1. CIFOTM
2. Surf's Up
3. The Elements (MOLC - Wind Chimes - LTSDD - V-T)
4. Prayer
5. Good Vibrations

That would leave the 2nd movement of BWPS intact - you would just have to flip the disc in the middle of the movement.

Micha, you're a genius!

and if I remember rightly:

'great shape' is a heavier arrangement we haven't heard yet

'my children' has the 'often wise' melody

i wonder if 'great shape' has a similar feel to the very early takes of 'false barnyard' before the ychanged the rhythm..?

According to my source, there's 8 bars of the great shape music, "then, harpsichord playing the my children were raised part, then back into the familiar H & V backing track."  I've asked him about the my children were raised part if there's silence before it (for the a Capella beginning of the section) or if there's harpsichord throughout.

We REALLY NEED to hear that acetate! In my books, it's as much of a big deal as the Cantina acetate is! How I would love to hear a December '66 mixdown of Heroes!

I'm making a new stereo mix... Side One is completed, and Side Two is still in the works, so allow me a few more weeks/months, Dig! (I have put up the tracklisting for Side Two [which is the same from my previous mix, so don't come down on me for 'rebranding', please!])

Side One- American Gothic Trip (19:48 minutes)

1. Prayer/Good Vibrations (Our Prayer, followed by Brian Fell Into A Mircophone circling around the stereo speakers, then an EQ-d 2012 Stereo Remix of GV, just to make the vocals a tad more 'authentic', y'know?)

2. Heroes and Villains (90% of the structure of this mix is based off the February 1967 edit Brian made. The verses [Ive Been In This Town] circle around your speakers in frenzy, since a proper stereo for these bits are lacking. Then it goes into Cantina, and My Children Were Raised. The final bit [Three Score and Five] pans around, then aburptly cuts to the 'Bridge to Indians', so it could connect to 'Worms.'

3. Do You Like Worms? (This is the SonicLoveNoize mixdown. Some differences include echoes after the Bicycle Rider bit, just because I felt psychedelic!)

4. I'm In Great Shape/Out In The Barnyard (GS is the Sonic mix. Barnyard is my own mix (inspired by the Sonic mix, but with one notable difference, that difference being that it doesn't fade out, and it crossfades into OMP made by combining two different backing tracks, so its not completely 'Duo-phonic', since the animals sounds makes rounds from speaker to speaker)

5. The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine (Faded from Barnyard. The Old Master part is from the instrumental master takes, and from the You Are My Sunshine part to the end is Sonic's mix)

6. Cabin Essence (Who Ran The Iron Horse?) (Sonic's mix)

7. Wonderful (This is interesting. I used the mono mix found on Disc 1 from Smile Sessions, but it starts from one speaker, and slowly moves to the other as the song progresses. Could you imagine the entire band going around your room? Now you can!)

Side B- (God, Laughter and The Elements)

8. A Song For Children (Instrumental)

9. On a Holiday (Instrumental)

10. Wind Chimes

11. The Elements: Mrs. O' Leary's Cow (Fire) [Instrumental]

12. The Elements: Air Pollution Rant (Air)

13. The Elements: My Vega-Tables (Earth)

14. The Elements: Cool Cool Water (Water)

15. Child Is The Father of The Man

16. Surf's Up

Brian, you are THE man. Happy birthday, to you and anyone who is driven by your musical prowess to accomplish things that benefit our world. Thank you for trusting yourself, and coming so far, inspiring others to do the same.

I picked up the PS 50 multi disc set, and there it was: the end of Good Vibrations has the solo cello and theramin, but the timing sounds sloppy. Is this an alternate take replacing a lost snippet? I could find no mention of it anywhere. If you listen to the 45 version, it is on time and punchy, the re-issue stereo mixes etc are not?

My gut-feeling is that it's some sort of alternative take. Could anyone confirm this? If not, than it's definitely a sloppy edit.

Also, Heck, I can't believe this thread's alive again!

I have a theory that the Cantina section wasn't just a replacement for I'm in Great Shape but was actually a rewriting of it, similar to how Cool, Cool Water was a rewriting of Love To Say Da Da. I layered the Great Shape vocals over the Cantina backing track and it's almost a perfect fit.

COMMENT:  Since after 174 posts on Heroes and Villains, no one has mentioned my Study-Video on this subject, I will.

For what it's worth, the engineer's two-cents is available for free by visiting my website and pushing to the H & V button.

http://swdstudyvideos.com

~swd

Mr. Desper, awesome video! 

Here's my go at it

http://puu.sh/ppL0j/c254bbbeeb.mp3

terrei, did you use all of those partial vocals to make this mix?

btw, you mind pm'in or emailing me your mix? i think it sounds spectacular.

Here's my go at it

http://puu.sh/ppL0j/c254bbbeeb.mp3

terrei, did you use all of those partial vocals to make this mix?

Sir Brian (I'm calling him that, because he deserves the title) should read this thread. Really.

It reminds me of a bright/neon ferris-wheel spinning late at night, or a happy couple having cotton candy somewhere near a beach and a blue riverside. It's the feeling you get when you are spending your last few days of childhood, and look towards a world ahead of you. It's that same exact feeling, only conveyed through music. Sounds and lyricism. It touches upon topics that we could all relate to. Love, death, loss of adolescence, society. Things that effect us on a day-to-day basis. Pet Sounds is a soundtrack to many people's lives, maybe because it helps us get through times were we feel uncertain of our own capacity. It helps us rediscover ourselves again, and essentially makes living life a tad more easier. It makes us more human.

See, this is the stuff I wanna see more of in this forum!

Beatiful depiction of the Americana homage that Van Dyke and Brian imagined in the fall of 1966! I love how every part is used to tell a story, in a cohesive order! Keep up the standard of you work!

Coming this fall as a 2 CD set.

"In 2011 we released a mostly definitive 5 CD box set chronicling the sessions of the unreleased Beach Boysalbum, SMiLE. As comprehensive as we were there were still things that were excluded for one reason or another. Here we hope to gather the Best of what's left. Here we find some more sessions from when Brian was at his best in the studio. Also included are some A Capella tracks that still exist on the original master tapes. We also included more of the sketches Brian and company recorded durring the album giving a better glimpse into the humor element of the album. Paul McCartneys legendary visit to the studio is included as well with a jam session of  'On Top Of Ol' Smokey' the result. Also included for the first time are the recently unearthed Inside Pop vocal session that were captured by a film crew in 1966. New stereo mixes of select tracks were assembled using these tapes. The footage is currently being remastered for an upcoming Beach Boys retrospective. The set rounds off with various smile related recordings from 1967-1979. We hope this set will bring a sense of finality with the SMiLE sessions who's legacy has grown for half a century."


Disc 1:

SMiLE Sessions
1. Look (Session Highlights)
2. Look (Acetate Assembly)
3. Look (Stereo Backing Track)
4. Heroes and Villains (Session Highlights Part 1)
5. Heroes and Villains (Acetate Assembly)
6. Heroes and Villains Alternate Sections (Stack-O-Vocals)
7. Heroes and Villains (Session Highlights Part 2)
8. Heroes and Villains (Stack-O-Vocals)
9. Heroes and Villains (Stereo Backing Track)
10. Do You Like Worms (Session Highlights)
11. Do You Like Worms (Acetate Assembly)
12. Do You Like Worms (Stack of Vocals)
13. Do You Like Worms (Stereo Backing Track)
14. Do You Like Worms (1978 Overdub on 1966 Backing Track)
15. Cabinessence (Session Highlights)
16. Cabinessence (Stereo Backing Track
17. Truck Driving Man (A Capella)
18. Michael Falls In
19. Ice Cream Man's Good Vibrations
20. That's Right, Vegetables
21. Prune Time
22. Let's Talk About Swimming
23. Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney
24. On Top of Ol' Smokey

Disc 2:

SMiLE Sessions Cont.

25. Barnyard (Stereo Backing Track with Background Vocals)
26. Love To Say Da Da (Stereo Backing Track)
27. Holidays (Stereo Backing Track)
28. Vega-Tables (Acetate Assembly)
29. Vega-Tables (Stack-O-Vocals)
29. Vega-Tables (Stereo Backing Track)
30. Teeter Totter Love (Alternate Version)

Inside Pop Vocal Sessions*

31. Surf's Up (Vocal Overdubs Attempts
32. Surf's Up (2016 Stereo Mix)
33. I'm In Great Shape (Vocal Overdub Attempts)
34. I'm In Great Shape (2016 Stereo Mix)
35. Child Is The Father Of The Man (Vocal Overdub Attempts)
36. Child Is The Father Of The Man (2016 Stereo Mix)
37. Surfs Up (Alternate Piano Demo)

Smiley Smile and Beyond

38. Wind Chimes (Alternate Mix)
39. Hawaiian Song
40. She's Goin Bald (Alternate Mix)
41. Wonderful (Alternate Mix
42. Cool Cool Water
43. Getting Hungry (Session Highlights)
42. Good Time Mama
43. Good News
44. Good Vibration (Lei'd in Hawaii Session)
45. Heroes and Villains (Lei's in Hawaii Session)
47. Can't Wait Too Long (Session Highlights)
48. Can't Wait Too Long (1979 Version)
 
*The following tracks are sourced from a handheld recorder while Inside Pop was filming a days worth of vocal sessions. Though the studio reels have long since been junked they are presented here in limited quality for their historical significance.


http://www.thebeachboys.com/#go_page_2600

Is is sad that part of me wants this to be real?