It’s a strange world

To answer B.E. - what one considers to be inappropriate or excessive has no bearing, for me, on reasonable behaviour. At one point, it was widely considered inappropriate to engage in a homosexual act but, in my view, it was a reasonable act. So if people do think that, it certainly wouldn't convince me in any way that the action of "getting blitzed out beyond self-control" is unreasonable.

If your singular definition of reasonable behavior is any action that does not deprive (or potentially deprive) others of their freedom and self-ownership, then it's going to be met with some confusion. Beyond that, I agree with everyone who is expressing that the victim does not share any of the blame for Scott's criminal actions.

I don't think many people regard "getting blitzed out beyond self-control" as reasonable behavior. In this context, they'd understand it to be inappropriate, excessive behavior (even if they enjoyed it).

[20 Good Vibrations - The Greatest Hits]

Here's the path I took...

1. 20 Good Vibrations - The Greatest Hits - This was the lone Beach Boys CD in my house growing up. For years, until the age of about 14-15, if I wanted to listen to the Beach Boys I listened to this compilation. I'd mainly listen to it in the summer. There wasn't a song I disliked. [circa 1995]

2. Pet Sounds - I discovered Pet Sounds as a teenager. It quickly became my favorite album. Despite this, I still didn't feel compelled to explore further. Just not enough time in the day, I suspect. [circa 2003]

3. Little Deuce Coupe / All Summer Long - A few years later, my brother picked this up. It was nice to have more of their earlier material. I liked it, but I listened to it sparingly. I was focused on other bands at the time.

4. Friends / 20/20 - Another few years later, I picked this up out of the blue. I can't remember why. I don't think I knew anything about it. I distinctly remember listening to both albums and being impressed. Impressed enough to recommend these lesser known albums to people, but apparently not enough to ditch whoever I was listening to and obsess over the Beach Boys. I had Pet Sounds. I had the hits. I had a few early '60s albums, a few late '60s albums. How much more did I need?

5. Party! - This was given to me by a friend. She said she never felt cooler than when she was cruising, blasting this album. She said it was the only Beach Boys album she liked. I thought that was kinda cool. [2011]

These are my first five (or seven) Beach Boys albums, but it should be noted that I was aware of Brian's solo career enough that I picked up BWPS, TLOS, and the Disney album shortly upon release. I don't think I was aware of GIOMH or WIRWFC. I probably just wasn't interested in the Gershwin album at the time.

In 2012 I was aware of the reunion, but I was still something of a casual fan. Ultimately, I didn't see them on tour and I didn't pick up TWGMTR until a year later (when I was buying all of their albums). So, what was I interested in? Pacific Ocean Blue. I can't be sure what inspired me to pick up the 2-disc edition of POB, but I couldn't stop listening to it. Even though Friends and 20/20 had clued me in to the potential quality and diversity of the Beach Boys music beyond the hits, it wasn't that far removed from what I knew. With POB, here's the drummer (!!!), solo, in '77, giving me one of my favorite albums. It was time. I had to listen to it all. At this point I started reading up on the band and by mid-2013 I had bought just about every album. I also remember stumbling upon a blog of someone's Top 200 Beach Boys songs. That's where I heard some of Brian's mid-70s material for the first time, e.g., 'It's Over Now', 'Still I Dream Of It', and 'Sherry She Needs Me'. That blew my mind. As I picked up the rest of their albums, I started with Smiley Smile / Wild Honey.

Slightly off-topic, but the worst sound quality I've heard (by far!!!) was Surfin' Safari (Ariola Version). I guess this was a bonus track on the Japanese compilation Still I Dream Of You: Rare Works Of Brian Wilson. It was horrendous. It should not have been played on the radio! That was my impression, anyway. I only heard it once and I was just listening through my smartphone speakers.

Reunion interview schedule:

August 10 at 5 pm ET with replays August 10 at 8 pm ET; Saturday, August 11 at 12 pm ET; Sunday, August 12 at 3pm & 10 pm ET; Tuesday, August 14 at 2 pm ET; and Wednesday, August 15 at 11 pm ET.

Reunion interview schedule:

August 10 at 5 pm ET with replays August 10 at 8 pm ET; Saturday, August 11 at 12 pm ET; Sunday, August 12 at 3pm & 10 pm ET; Tuesday, August 14 at 2 pm ET; and Wednesday, August 15 at 11 pm ET.

They’ve played In The Key Of Disney.

Personally, I think the original POB is better. This feels unfinished. Mexico, Common, and Holy Man are all instrumentals. I also don't think Cocktails would have worked as well on POB as I think it would have on Bambu. I'm not sure POB could have been improved on at all. I don't think including Tug Of Love would have made it better. Love Remember Me, though, is incredible. I suppose that song could have enhanced the album.

[analogy]

What if Brian had showed up with five “Love & Mercy” shirts? Would Mike have worn that? And if he hadn’t, would it have been out of line to say group politics could have at least tangentially been involved? I don’t think so.

Sorry to single out this one point, but I've seen this analogy numerous times now and I think it's off-base. This was a Beach Boys reunion. What's the main characteristic of Mike's signature shirt? Yep, the blue and white stripes. Compare that to a "Love & Mercy" shirt or any other Brian solo shirt that has nothing to do with the Beach Boys. I agree that Dave's comments and Mary Ann Jardine's comments don't silence all such commentary (e.g. the mismatched appearance), but Mike's shirts aren't all that out of place at a Beach Boys reunion. Certainly not to the same extent a "Love & Mercy" shirt would be. It's not like Mike brought in "Unleash The Love" shirts for everyone to wear at a Beach Boys reunion. My thoughts on the entire shirt fiasco is, yes, it's the first thing I noticed when I looked at the group photo. It certainly deserved a mention and a discussion. Still, I consider it a footnote. That seems to be the perspective of those involved (that we've heard from).

It may not be a shirt with "Love and Mercy" written in giant letters, but it's still very much a "Mike Love" shirt being that his face (and only his face) is stitched into the shirt. In particular: being as it has certainly been a undeniably "touchy" aspect throughout recent years with regards to who is in the "BBs" band... these shirts are basically the statement MIKE LOVE IS THE BEACH BOYS in shirt form (what "band" t-shirts only have 1 member on them??)... and especially after Brian and Al felt pushed out of the band not so very long ago, it just feels tacky for the guy who pushed them out of the band (or if people want to get technical, the guy who made them feel like they were pushed out of the band) to bring those recently pushed-out guys shirts as gifts to wear at a reunion activity.

I'm glad David and Mary Ann are seeing things in a nice light, and I applaud them for just trying to make peace and at least publicly try to smooth things out. Truthfully, and I mean this very sincerely, I'm not trying to sh*t on their thoughts, nor the reunion, just by having my own opinion. I'm glad they don't see any deeper meaning. It doesn't mean that in the light of the history of the band, that the appearance (as HeyJude pointed out) isn't nevertheless just a bit off-putting for many fans (and publications) in light of the highly negative and egregiously inflammatory things that Mike has said about any number of Brian projects that "excluded" Mike.

Does a Beach Boys shirt with only Mike's face on it not somehow exclude Brian too? This may sound like a funny conversation, and it sort of is of course... but still, how is that comparison off-base? There's some truth in it.  If Mike didn't repeatedly say such negative stuff about "Brian content" countless times, this conversation would probably not exist. This is a shirt by the guy who made the biggest friggin' deal in the world in interviews, over and over and over and over again, about how it was SUCH a terrible and insulting thing for him (Mike) to not be completely included in aspects of the band in a manner that he (Mike) saw fit during the last reunion. So yeah, Mike wants everyone to cry a river that he did was not properly included as he should have been, and that TWGMTR was too Brian-centric (leaving out Mike), but then it's fine for Mike to expect Brian to wear a Mike shirt that takes the iconic brand fashion imagery and puts only Mike's face on it.

I think some people are simply bugged at Mike's inconsistency of what he has historically, repeatedly gotten publicly outraged at, when they see his actions. There's really nothing much more to it than that.

There's noooo doubt in my mind that if Brian had done the same thing (let's say Brian had a line of Brian Wilson striped shirts with only Brian's face taken from a 1960s Beach Boys photo, and asked Mike to wear it), that Mike would've have found a way (either right then and there, or years down the line) to make a big public hissy fit about being slighted, and to complain about Brian (or Melinda) having the chutzpah to expect Mike wear a Brian Wilson solo shirt to a Beach Boys reunion.

Honestly, anyone defending Mike in this discussion, please refute this. I'll expect crickets, just as JuiceBronston ducked out of my prior line of questioning.

Side note: if Reiner was “pro” matching shirts, that would surely mean Reiner wanted everyone to have matching shirts (or no one); I'm sure that if the "idea" of the band wearing matching shirts was mentioned to Reiner, that it would seem like a potentially nice idea on the surface, but no way in hell Reiner was somehow pushing for the idea of some members wearing matching shirts and some not.  Nobody in their right mind would think that was an ideal situation.

Also - none of this means that more great reunion activities are "tarnished", and I wish the band collective good vibrations from here on out.

With all this talk about trolling, it's hard for me to see posters who duck out of a back-and-forth conversation (the minute they can't refute an inconvenient truth) as anything but trolling, whether it's intended to be trolling or not. Even if trying very hard to not see this as trolling, it's just plain rude at best. I predicted crickets, and I was correct.

Trolling?

The main point of my post (Reply #383) is that the analogy is weak. I suppose I could have clarified that it's not entirely off-base, but it's weak enough (as I illustrated in my post) that it undermines otherwise balanced arguments. That still stands. That doesn't mean that I don't ultimately agree with the point HeyJude was making. Furthermore, I happen to agree with just about everything else HeyJude said in the post I responded to and his response to me. As I said, I have seen that analogy a few times now and I just wanted to comment on it. I don't find it persuasive. I acknowledge all the points you made, they've already been made. I wasn't commenting on them. What inconvenient truth can't I refute? I honestly wasn't even sure you were addressing me when you called out Mike defenders.

To start with classic, "Rain Man", "Top Gun", "Born At 4th Of July", "Interview With Vampire" (interesting role, still not much), pure trash "Cocktail", past mission impossibles, "Vanilla Sky" (boring cast, boring film), "Firm", "War Of Worlds", "Jack Reacher".

Ah, well you've seen your fair share of Tom Cruise movies. If none of those made you a fan, then it's probably not going to happen. Just an observation, but I'd say A Few Good Men, Collateral, and The Last Samurai, are his best that you haven't seen.

What if Brian had showed up with five “Love & Mercy” shirts? Would Mike have worn that? And if he hadn’t, would it have been out of line to say group politics could have at least tangentially been involved? I don’t think so.

Sorry to single out this one point, but I've seen this analogy numerous times now and I think it's off-base. This was a Beach Boys reunion. What's the main characteristic of Mike's signature shirt? Yep, the blue and white stripes. Compare that to a "Love & Mercy" shirt or any other Brian solo shirt that has nothing to do with the Beach Boys. I agree that Dave's comments and Mary Ann Jardine's comments don't silence all such commentary (e.g. the mismatched appearance), but Mike's shirts aren't all that out of place at a Beach Boys reunion. Certainly not to the same extent a "Love & Mercy" shirt would be. It's not like Mike brought in "Unleash The Love" shirts for everyone to wear at a Beach Boys reunion. My thoughts on the entire shirt fiasco is, yes, it's the first thing I noticed when I looked at the group photo. It certainly deserved a mention and a discussion. Still, I consider it a footnote. That seems to be the perspective of those involved (that we've heard from).

[Tom Cruiser]

I saw Mission Impossible: Fallout yesterday. I don't go to the theaters often (maybe 2 or 3 times per year). Anyway, I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I enjoyed it!

Films lotta people like which I hate big time - "Scrooged", "Caddyshack", "Animal House", "Godfather" (whole thing), "The Graduate", "Boogie Nights", anything with Adam Sandler, can't stand this goon, anything with Matthew Macckonahue or what's the last name, ditto Sandra Bullock, Nicole Kidman, Tom Cruiser & especially Julianna Moor & laughable James Bond Pierced Brosnan.

Say it ain't so! I'm curious to know which Tom Cruise movies you've seen?

[Deleted from iTunes library]

7. Wipe Out - Deleted from iTunes library, unbearable, worst Beach Boys song.

 

To me, it's a refreshing change of pace to see that the last few posts don't rank 'Somewhere Near Japan' so highly. It never did much for me. It doesn't sound like "The Beach Boys" IMO.

Here's my rankings...

1. Wouldn't It Be Nice
2. I Get Around
3. California Girls

4. Kokomo

5. Island Girl
6. In My Car
7. Still Cruisin'
8. Somewhere Near Japan

9. Make It Big
10. Wipe Out

[but]

Two Beatles-related songs come instantly to mind...

1) John & Yoko's Born In A Prison: I like the song well enough, it's got a nice feel, but it's Lennon's vocal harmony during the refrain that draws me to the song. I think it's a great performance and it's much welcomed as Lennon didn't sing much harmony during his solo career. One might even consider it a hidden treasure for Lennon fans as most people probably skip over Yoko's songs and aren't aware of it. It reminds me of his harmony in Hey Jude (which is also a highlight for me), though more intricate. There's also live footage of the song that can be found on youtube.

2) The Beatles' That Means A Lot: I've never been a fan of this song. I don't think it's up to their standard. With that said, I always liked that ascending line Paul sings (and the accompanying harmonies) at the end of the second line of each verse. Furthermore, upon revisiting the song, I really like that raucous "Can't You See?!" outro. That would have found a nice home on any Beatles album. I'm noticing now, how they tease that earlier in the song only to return to it at the end. Good stuff.  

Al posted on FB re Town Hall:

 "... thanks to everyone involved - hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things!"

Whoa, awesome! Thanks for posting.

[but]

Mike's 'never say never' comment in the Rolling Stone article gives me hope

Obviously, it's far easier to get back together for a one-off interview than it is to record or tour, but if things were so acrimonious, why bother? The Sirius channel is two-thirds complete - voice overs had been provided. The album is two months old - permission had been granted. This, understandably, led some fans to wonder what the bigger reason was for the reunion. My point is, oddly enough, that should give fans hope. They could have easily said 'No', but they didn't. In a way, it kind of feels like they just got back together for the heck of it. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised next time they surprise us?

[Mike, Jacquelyn, Brian & Ambha Love, who went out of their way to be kind and supportive during what could have been an awkward afternoon, to say the least.]

David's official statement:

https://www.davidleemarks.com/news/tmz-paparazzi-other-things

Thanks for the heads up! I can't say I'm surprised to hear that Mike was supportive of David during this reunion.

"I’d like to say big thank you’s to: everyone at Capitol who welcomed us home, Rob Reiner for a thoughtful and entertaining discussion, Lou Simon and everyone at SiriusXM for all of their efforts to support the music, Jerry Schilling at Brother Records for bringing us all together, Eric Breslow, for not only making sure we arrived in style (in his Bentley) but for always having our backs, and last but not least, Mike, Jacquelyn, Brian & Ambha Love, who went out of their way to be kind and supportive during what could have been an awkward afternoon, to say the least. Thank you all for the friendship and love! You find your true friends in the darkness!"

[people grumble about Kokomo because it's just not the type of material a middle aged band should have been doing]

No offense HeyJude, but I think you're over analyzing things. Simply put, people grumble about Kokomo because it's just not the type of material a middle aged band should have been doing. I think people also hate the song because of what it represents, the cheese factor.

I'm not sure what you mean. It always seemed very middle-aged to me. A rather natural progression from singing about teenagers spending their summer days and nights at the beach to adults wanting to "get away from it all" on a romantic, tropical vacation. It's not like it's a rewrite of 'Be True To Your School'.

This is semantics, but I always considered the song more pastiche than parody. For me the difference is that pastiche imitates while parody makes fun of. And furthermore, it's a pastiche of not just a style but, in my view, two different songs: Chuck Berry's Back in the USA and The Beach Boys' California Girls.

Agreed.

I suppose I could believe that it's gotten worse as a result of technological advances. Not that peer pressure ever really slept, but I didn't even have a cell phone until college (and even then it wasn't a smartphone!). I feel lucky that my childhood wasn't dominated by the internet. I was one of the last ones (born in the late '80s). The pressure must feel ever present in a way that simply wasn't the case in the past. 

It's been alluded to twice now, so I have to ask... is peer pressure really any worse in the US than in Russia or anywhere else? Drinking is a great example. RangeRoverA1 was hated and cast as an outsider for not drinking from 5th grade onwards. That's far harsher than my own experience, but there's a very similar pressure in the US, and many other countries.

Nice!

On "Be Here In The Mornin'" - Dennis DOES sing the wordless "uh-uhhh-uh-uh"s at the start and later in the song. And yes, that's definitely Brian on the falsetto chorus responses. But I would credit the "lead" simply to Al and Carl, and consider the other two parts as backgrounds. Same with Murry's low "whole"s in the choruses.

Pretty sure the wordless "uhhhh" part at the start of the song is Brian, it's only Dennis when it returns later.

Woah, I'm pretty sure you're right. Dennis' "uh-uhhh-uh-uh"s later in the song have always been a highlight of the album for me, so I may have just assumed the intro was him by association.

I'm currently getting in shape for the beach and would like to change up my playlist a little bit.

I'm looking for suggestions of songs that have a motivational/exercise-type message. As well as any generally high energy songs to get the blood flowing.

Did you get in shape? I've been trying to get back in shape lately and I found myself listening to music that made me feel very nostalgic for a time when I was younger and in great shape. For me, it was Third Eye Blind's self-titled debut album. I don't think I'd listened to it in about 16 years, but it was one of my favorite albums as I was entering high school. It really motivated me to go jogging a few times.

Too Much Sugar

Yup! I've successfully recommended 'Too Much Sugar' be added to a workout playlist or two. It's just good fun.