So this has veered in every direction seemingly possible.  I wasn't looking to derail the thread by any means when I asked why the people consistently doing critical posts of Brian weren't "Brian haters," yet those who are critical of Mike are "Mike haters."  I was looking for some definition and trying to go back to the actual question.  But of course got the responses I should have expected knowing how it goes here, and was accused of trying to be provocative.  I'm not certain what hate or love really are, and I'm old - so no wonder no one else seems to grasp it either.  The people who don't agree with us are "haters" and "idolize" Brian or Mike - and sometimes their posts become attacks and go way beyond personal.  As a female, it seems that there are often the accusations that my little feelings are hurt if someone doesn't agree with me.  Actually, that's the assertion that manages to piss me off.  I certainly don't care if someone has different musical taste.  Of course I think you're tone deaf if you don't agree, but who cares?

Equally dependable is the feeling that those who agree with us are brilliant.

It does get rather boring in that respect here, doesn't it?  But it's fun to come here and find agreement.  And the arguments seem to go on page after page after page...

It's pretty amazing that this somehow is a complete work, like the film, yet in a somewhat modular form.  Atticus Ross does an amazing job with isolating the individual sounds from completed works in such a haunting way, interspersed with Brian's actual completed works.  I guess we could always say this or that could be in or out of the mix (like the RS top 100), but it's something I'm going to enjoy for years.  We have Ross's take.  I'm certain some of you will do interesting versions too.  Looking forward to them.  In the mean time, this is a treasure.

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Agreed, and yet we all keep clicking on them, so they persist.  There's something irresistible about seeing who's on them and who isn't.

I'm definitely listening to the real deal. We also had the MIC early as well a few years back. The thinking was that a small market such as this is a 'test' for itunes before it goes 'live'.

edit: Now on NZ itunes.

Wow - That's great news!

Brian Wilson should be within the top 10.
Ray Davies and Pete Townsend should be higher up.
Happy to see Holland - Dozier - Holland.
How can R. Kelly be on the list, but not Warren Zevon?

Yep - No matter what, it will be wrong.  Rankings suck, but we have all now clicked on it, so it works out for RS.

Uh-oh - is this that one that has nothing to do with the official soundtrack popping up again, or is it the real thing?

Yep - lists = clicks.  Even my editor wanted lists for awhile...it still comes up every once in awhile.

Brian's #12 position was certainly a fine one, although rankings on something so subjective are always "wrong" because everyone has different taste.  Most of us would rank him higher.  Time will tell.  Brian strikes me as more timeless than Dylan, but what the hell do I know about 200 years from now?

Forgot to do this earlier, but here's the (audio only) Busy Doin' Nothing from 23 June 2015 in Austin, Texas.

https://youtu.be/nBHT0Uf4FNY

He hits a few duff notes at times early , but he hits some really great notes the rest of the way. To be honest, I think my flash DID blind him for a minute, which is why it goes dark. Oops. And I just realized you CAN hear me singing during part of it. Oops part 2

Some really nice spots though...wish I could've gotten the video so you could see how happy Brian looked. Or how happy my wife and daughter were.

Oops - just caught this Billy - nice duet with Brian...seriously...

I guess those guys won't be answering my question then...

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I have never read where you negatively criticized Brian since you joined here, yet you defend people who trash Mike. Nice move. When you first joined here, you thought I was criticizing Brian and you flew off the handle. It's the same reason why I don't like any of the bandmembers getting ripped in here. I just think that it is possible to criticize without the name calling.

I have no idea what you mean by my "flying off the handle" - please explain how I did this.  So if I have failed to "negatively criticize" Brian I think he's a saint?  Again, I don't understand.  There seems to be another standard for me somehow.  As far as name-calling, when did I ever do that?

I didn't say that you name called, what I said is that you defended the Mike haters who named-called. Secondly, when you first posted on this board you misread something I posted. It was an example, a for instance, type of thing and you got all out of sorts over it. You ran right to the Mods over it. As for criticizing Brian, I have no example, as you have never done so, which was my initial point. And loving Brian like that is fine. I have no issues with that. Every person in the Beach Boys had their share of issues, which is fine to discuss here. I am only asking that we discuss it rationally and peacefully. A lot of this stuff happened decades ago, and there really is no need to get in each other's faces defending or disagreeing with it today. Nothing that is said in here can change what has already happened.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to my defending Mike-haters and running to the mods over something you said.

Mike's beard, didn't take long for you to attack Debbie again........

Hmmmmm, I do believe she attacked me first. Just responding in kind.

I didn't realize it was an attack - just a response.  Hopefully, I didn't make you cry.

Show me one person on here who 'hates' Brian.

I knew I could count on you...the guy who said that Brian's fans only dislike SIP because Brian isn't on it.  

Nobody has made nastier comments about Brian than you, on a regular basis - please note the previous posts here pointing out what you've said.  Yet, apparently there's no one here who hates Brian, according to you.  So what makes you think that people who don't like something Mike said or recorded are Mike haters?  Please explain the difference?  That WAS my original question after all.

Yes I HATE the man who created some of my favourite music of all time. Because? Oh no! I thought Brian's latest album was rubbish! Boo hoo! Save some of those tears for when you watch Love & Mercy for the 80th time.
Let's compare;
Brian's latest album is a pile of sh*t.
Mike Love is a sleazy creep, a bald clown who is a laughing stock of the industry, a talentless piece of sh*t who's insanely jealous of his cousin and is making a mockery of The Beach Boys with his crappy 'bar band'.

Paraphrasing aside, you can't see the difference in those two statements?

Here we go again...I am an emotional female who gets my feelings hurt because you didn't like NPP, according to you.  Where do you come up with this stuff?  You are the guy who thinks that I don't like SIP because Brian isn't on it.  With that in mind, I think it's safe to say that your opinion on any piece of music isn't going to align with mine.  You pointed out that Brian probably doesn't care what you think of NPP.  I probably care even less.  The last time I cried over one of you posts was from laughter over that SIP comment.

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I have never read where you negatively criticized Brian since you joined here, yet you defend people who trash Mike. Nice move. When you first joined here, you thought I was criticizing Brian and you flew off the handle. It's the same reason why I don't like any of the bandmembers getting ripped in here. I just think that it is possible to criticize without the name calling.

I have no idea what you mean by my "flying off the handle" - please explain how I did this.  So if I have failed to "negatively criticize" Brian I think he's a saint?  Again, I don't understand.  There seems to be another standard for me somehow.  As far as name-calling, when did I ever do that?

Show me one person on here who 'hates' Brian.

I knew I could count on you...the guy who said that Brian's fans only dislike SIP because Brian isn't on it.  

Nobody has made nastier comments about Brian than you, on a regular basis - please note the previous posts here pointing out what you've said.  Yet, apparently there's no one here who hates Brian, according to you.  So what makes you think that people who don't like something Mike said or recorded are Mike haters?  Please explain the difference?  That WAS my original question after all.

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

Please be so kind as to point me in the direction of anyone who hates Brian? I have been here for years and nobody treats Brian in the manner that Mike is treated. Not even close. Some of us do not think Brian saintly, as you do, but on the whole, we understand Brian's importance and understand the struggles he has endured. Personally, I don't know any of the guys enough to hate any of them. I don't think any of the bandmembers hate each other, either.

Ah, and I wasn't disappointed by the replies to this question.  Somehow my comment indicates that I think Brian is "saintly."  Yep, that's what I said, um, where exactly?

I meant to post this before. American Cinematographer (July 2015) "Harmony & Discord".

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-_uEeuPcTRdTHRJWEUzaEVadjQ/view?pli=1

Great stuff, JCM.

You know, I'm going back to the original subject right now because I have a question.  I'm rather fascinated by the fact that anyone who objects to anything Mike does, or doesn't like some of his music is treated like a "Mike hater."  But those who attack Brian relentlessly, most often as some sort of misguided defense of Mike as it seems to appear, are never called "Brian haters." What's with that?

Granted, if you go to a concert with Mike's band, you're predominantly hearing Brian's music, so you must not hate his talents.  But some of you never give the man a break, even with that particular fact being part of the whole equation.

[But in an earlier post you used "Dennis on the Edge" as an example of reading too much into the film, so I'm not following your argument here.]

So according to this logic, Dennis missing from the railing during the bed montage scene was probably just Kenny Wormald missing from the set, getting a coke or something, and Bill Pohlad saying "f*** it....action!"

I was talking about the scene where Dano is in the pool. Obviously the railing disappearance was intentional. There are no doubt moments in the film with genuine undertones or foreshadowing, but they aren't so ridiculously abstruse as 'Brian sitting down => Brian laying in bed'. The color blue as a visual motif, Murry telling Brian 'Nobody is going to remember the Beach Boys in five years', and such are all obvious and unmistakable.

But in an earlier post you used "Dennis on the Edge" as an example of reading too much into the film, so I'm not following your argument here.
 

Er, no. I only make weird, terrible movies for 12 dollars or so but sorting out the BLOCKING definitely takes more than 5 seconds of thought. The DP furrows his brow and mutters about light. Bits of tape are placed on the ground. Actors then do actory things and so much for your intricate tape markers!

Sure, blocking takes thought, but not 'ought these guys be in the pool with Brian?'.

Seriously?  I'm hoping there will be a director's narrative with the DVD/Blue-Ray.  While he's the only one who can clear this up, it struck me that the "deep end" references were pretty noticeable.

Carl's line "We just gotta to stick together brothers. We just stick together, it'll all be okay", I think, is meant to illustrate that he is the brother trying to hold all of it together and will be that anchor for the brothers and the band in the years to come after Brian relinquishes control. And yes, it's deep.

Deep? I disagree, unless we're looking from the angle of 'Brian sticking to his family led to his downfall'. It's just proof that Moverman did his research. Everyone already knows Carl as the member who "held the band together". Would you say the same about Carl's WIBN speech in An American Family?

Well, I've never been able to endure more than a few minutes at a time of "An American Family" so I can't comment.  I can think of no reason whatsoever to compare that atrocity to "Love and Mercy." It supposedly had a few of the same characters, but beyond that there's no relationship on any level.

Geez you guys are a tough crowd. Someone asked the question..and others tried to guide them on the choice. Not everyone is up technology.

That said, I think a slide show would be good. I'll volunteer to provide still photos and narrate. 

A SS posters' slide show with commentary?  Sorta makes the hairs rise up on the back of my neck just thinking about it.   

Thanks for sharing the Japanese material, JCM.

I had the same reaction to the more subtle scenes, but it took 3-5 viewings to soak a lot of it in.  Given that Pohlad produced "Tree of Life," I also assumed he appreciated imagery and would use it in a film where he had to pack so much life and so many people into a single film.  I think the man did a brilliant job and I'm looking forward to the dvd so I can really soak it in and am really hoping for extensive actor/director/writer/cinematographer commentary.  Mid-Sept, right?