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648638 Posts in 25946 Topics by 3701 Members - Latest Member: Little E. Honda July 19, 2019, 04:23:57 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 29, 2019, 04:35:42 PM
Mike just gave an interview to the Daily Mail this past week...and yes, he once again goes there and brings up the drugs and how his choices were better.

It's sad but at the same time it's almost like a parody of itself at this point. Un-freakin-real.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7154031/Beach-Boy-grew-meditation-helped-pop-star-Mike-Love-78-cope-fame.html

A few choice excerpts:

>>>Mike credits meditation with saving his life when addictions were destroying those around him.

'It absolutely saved me,' he says. 'There are many ways to relax. Alcohol, marijuana, other drugs, but they all have side effects.

'I knew quite a few people who went in that direction. But if you learn transcendental meditation you're already relaxed. It leads you to make better choices.

'It was heartbreaking to see my own family members destroying themselves through drink and drugs.

'Not only Brian – his brother Dennis drowned in 1983 with an excess of drugs in his system.'<<<<

And...

>>>A day after Brian Wilson, who has been beset by health problems after a lifetime of drug and alcohol addiction, cancelled a tour because he was feeling 'mentally insecure', Mike Love called me from the health farm where he'd been on a starvation diet of juices ahead of his own tour, which will see him performing at the Royal Albert Hall and the Cornbury Festival. <<<<



So yeah, this article is crap in those regards, as in they had to knock down Brian and bring up addictions he's had beaten and had conquered for decades at this point, and contrast that with Mike calling from a "health farm" in the middle of a starvation juice fast and diet...oh, please. Does anyone care where Mike is calling from, whether it's a health farm's juice bar or at his dry cleaner picking up his Robert Graham shirts and ball caps sorted by the days of the week?

And it's sad because there are positives in the article, some nice sentiments, but the same old Drugs-Wilsons-Bad stuff keeps coming back, and it's Mike saying it ad nauseum.

It's this kind of stuff that is exactly what does Mike no favors.

It's exhausting. Old people don't adapt well, especially when they cover their own insecurities by maligning others. We have one in a far more prominent position than ML (of course, ML is a supporter of his), and that's the real danger.  I believe Mike isn't going to hurt Brian with this crap. Brian appears to have not cared for years. It's ML hurting ML. While Brian is dealing with issues, ML really needs to let this go. He probably won't.

Speaking of old people, mea culpa. My kids are working me through cell phone issues this weekend.  Cool Guy
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 27, 2019, 04:02:57 PM
Brian really had no interest in touring as a BeachBoy at that time. He was told he needed the money, primarily by all the people on his payroll.

That's one of the reasons I used to get into trouble here. Apparently, it's not okay to say that people on Brian's payroll wanted to keep their jobs (the majority of them did, with the exception of a few good guys). Or that people who write a book about Brian/BBa want to sell a book, or whatever. (Fine with me, but tell the truth about it, please. I'm not accusing anyone of not caring, just admit there's an additional motive).

Also, at that point in time there had to be a Wilson performing for it to be a legitimate Beach Boys show. Brian wasn't happy and it showed.



Thanks Debbie. Let me chime in and say that the line "tell the truth about it, please" is and should be one of the guiding principles of any valid look at the history of this band. Sadly that principle too often falls by the wayside, and people who do know and tell the truth get labeled as the troublemakers when in fact those doing the labeling can be the real offenders. Anyway, it's good to get the truth out there in all cases, isn't it?  Smiley

I think it was the late, great Hal Blaine who said in an interview "Brian was the goose that laid the golden eggs..." for a lot of people, and if anyone interested in getting deeper into this band's history would look at that one notion and apply it to the earliest days as a band in Hawthorne through all the turmoil, they will see a common thread. Anyone who has seen "Love & Mercy", specifically the Kubrick tribute scene near the end when Brian's life flashes by and he's visited by various figures from his past, has seen several specific examples.

The names and faces changed, the expectations and behaviors did not for decades. Imagine the pressure of being held responsible for carrying, supporting, and forwarding an enterprise and numbers of people waiting for the golden eggs, and either not wanting to do it, saying "I don't want to do it", or simply not being physically or mentally up for doing it...and then feeling browbeaten into doing it anyway. Who would be happy in those cases?

No wonder the guy looked unhappy at various points.

Thanks, GF - you summed it up well.

(So sorry it took so long to reply. My husband is in home hospice, so mostly my life is wrapped around that.)

I think that period was so tough for all of them that most of what we see isn't pretty.  Brian was the guy who was never allowed a solo career for so long while others got to do theirs, he was the guy who brought Redwood/Three Dog Night to Brother Records, but was shut down (think about how that could have saved the day during that period). Carl brought Flame, so his taste was exquisite, too. Mike brought the Pickle Brothers. Let that sink in and consider that Brian might have been frustrated.

What I would say about one thing, and I may be absolutely wrong, is that one thing Carl wouldn't have wanted was to be remembered as a saint, as some people want to paint him. I honestly didn't know him terribly well, but better than many who speculate about him. He had a sense of humor that was occasionally wicked, oddly subtle, yet hilarious in a charming sort of way and always something that you wouldn't notice was funny, but he did. I wonder if their common sense of humor brought Brian and Carl back together as much as the music and family love (also, I talked to Melinda about this and she was a huge advocate of bringing them close again).

I understand why people are fascinated by that time period. I left in the middle of it because I wasn't tough enough, nor was I in the position to be Brian's advocate, so I left it to others. I think everyone did the best they knew to do, but somehow "Landy II" was considered to be the best answer by those in power. David Leaf had already found Brian's team at UCLA that brought him back to health a decade later, but I was the one who recommended them on David's behalf. No one was interested, so that's on me. They "knew better." I guess my meek presentation contributed to how things went pear-shaped. Life is full of these sad stories when people are all compromised by their own issues (in my case, lack of confidence).

The fact that Brian and the music lived on is nothing less than a miracle of love. I'd rather focus on that than the flip-side. Both are human and maybe useful stories in their own ways. People as brilliant as Brian and brothers could soar to the heights and hit rock-bottom. If the stories help others, great.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's most active late-70's period on tour on: June 13, 2019, 02:04:02 PM
Brian really had no interest in touring as a BeachBoy at that time. He was told he needed the money, primarily by all the people on his payroll.

That's one of the reasons I used to get into trouble here. Apparently, it's not okay to say that people on Brian's payroll wanted to keep their jobs (the majority of them did, with the exception of a few good guys). Or that people who write a book about Brian/BBa want to sell a book, or whatever. (Fine with me, but tell the truth about it, please. I'm not accusing anyone of not caring, just admit there's an additional motive).

Also, at that point in time there had to be a Wilson performing for it to be a legitimate Beach Boys show. Brian wasn't happy and it showed.

4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brians caring personality on: May 30, 2019, 03:57:11 PM
Brian, Carl and Dennis have always given me the impression that they were all deeply caring people who also struggled with great personal difficulties, much of it rooted to how they were mistreated by their father.
Since you mentioned Dennis, I read years back that he gave money to some lady (secretary? the other worker?); she got into financial trouble, maybe debt she must pay but couldn't & he, I think, seen her in the street in despair by the car & generously freely gave her money without need to pay it back. Or did he buy her new car? Either event or 2 events towards 2 different ladies. If smb. can tell the truth about it, what really took place, who Dennis helped related above - thank you in advance.

I don't think this is the reference, but when I was a 17 year-old fan/go-pher running errands for the BBs. I actually damaged Fred Vail's car (a Thunderbird, I think). I was trying to pull together the money to pay him for the damage. Dennis heard of this, called me into the "vault" - Nick Grillo's office with a sliding door operated by his secretary - There sat Fred and Dennis. Dennis asked me what happened, and I told him that I had damaged Fred's car and was trying to find other work to pay him back. Dennis immediately threw a wad of cash on the desk and dramatically said, "Is this enough, Fred?" I turned to Dennis and said, "how can I pay you back?" He replied, "the way your face lights up whenever you can do something for us is enough payment." I then left the office tearfully as the little fan. It was very sweet.

I learned decades later from Fred that Dennis immediately took the money back after I left. I thought it was hilarious at that point. I mean, the BBs were paying him, so I'm sure he was financially secure.

So, so Dennis. So, so funny. If that would have actually financially hurt Fred, I'm sure Dennis would have taken care of it...

That's a sweet story. Denny was a good guy to make sure you weren't worried about fixing it.
I wonder if Fred drove his T-bird with Fun, Fun, Fun on the brain.

Dennis was a good guy, with a wicked, irresistible sense of humor. Fred's T-bird was during the time that they were pretty big sedans (obviously bigger than I thought when I rounded that corner  Evil), and it was mint green. Fred had a live-in girlfriend at the time, so I suspect the "fun, fun, fun" was limited.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brians caring personality on: May 29, 2019, 09:00:06 AM
Brian, Carl and Dennis have always given me the impression that they were all deeply caring people who also struggled with great personal difficulties, much of it rooted to how they were mistreated by their father.
Since you mentioned Dennis, I read years back that he gave money to some lady (secretary? the other worker?); she got into financial trouble, maybe debt she must pay but couldn't & he, I think, seen her in the street in despair by the car & generously freely gave her money without need to pay it back. Or did he buy her new car? Either event or 2 events towards 2 different ladies. If smb. can tell the truth about it, what really took place, who Dennis helped related above - thank you in advance.

I don't think this is the reference, but when I was a 17 year-old fan/go-pher running errands for the BBs. I actually damaged Fred Vail's car (a Thunderbird, I think). I was trying to pull together the money to pay him for the damage. Dennis heard of this, called me into the "vault" - Nick Grillo's office with a sliding door operated by his secretary - There sat Fred and Dennis. Dennis asked me what happened, and I told him that I had damaged Fred's car and was trying to find other work to pay him back. Dennis immediately threw a wad of cash on the desk and dramatically said, "Is this enough, Fred?" I turned to Dennis and said, "how can I pay you back?" He replied, "the way your face lights up whenever you can do something for us is enough payment." I then left the office tearfully as the little fan. It was very sweet.

I learned decades later from Fred that Dennis immediately took the money back after I left. I thought it was hilarious at that point. I mean, the BBs were paying him, so I'm sure he was financially secure.

So, so Dennis. So, so funny. If that would have actually financially hurt Fred, I'm sure Dennis would have taken care of it...
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brians caring personality on: May 24, 2019, 03:07:35 PM
Charity phone-in after Hurricane Katrina immediately springs to mind.

Plus

https://www.changedirection.org/brian-wilson/

And an offer to refund tickets.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2008/jul/24/brianwilsonfansnotwearing

Adopting kids and dogs? I’ll not pass judgment.


Nice list. Brian also did Musicares and, as I understand it, they raised more money than the honored artists in the past. Brian and Melinda worked as a team on that. She's good at getting contributions for a good cause.

Obviously, I've seen a lot of personal examples of Brian's kindness. Brian never wanted anyone to be hurt. He's so focused that he doesn't always do the standard, polite things. But I know that when he looks back on such situations, he does his best to fix any unintended hurt.

Responding to another post - I didn't take this thread as an anti-Mike thing. At  the worst, it seemed to imply to me, "Brian's not so great, either." Hopefully, that wasn't the intention. Neither of them is perfect and both have made charitable contributions. If anyone thinks Brian hasn't given a lot of love through his music, I'm curious as to why you're here.

We're just all doing our best as flawed mortal beings. So are they. The more we give each other a break, I think the better life is.

Ah, another one just came to mind. Before he was a star, Brian loved teaching kids to play baseball. He was pretty proud of donating his time for that. I understand he did the same with Dylan.

7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 21, 2019, 04:57:03 PM
Despite all of it's flaws, I have a soft spot for Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains, if only for all the recounting of Dennis' last days and the little details about all the business deals . And don't forget The Lost Beach Boy, that Jon Stebbins wrote with Dave Marks a few years back, lots of history of the BBs early days.

The Stebbins books are all indispensible for numerous reasons (still hoping the "Real Beach Boy" update happens soon!).

The Steven Gaines "Heroes and Villains" is, for better and worse, still an important book that delves into some aspects that no other biographies have touched on much. Indeed, subsequent books (including supposedly/allegedly the 1991 Brian "autobiography") relied sometimes *heavily* on details first related in the Gaines book.

Reading the Gaines book, it's clear he got elements of the story and access to people that no other books have been able to (or have tried to). The Gaines book is *not* a great book to delve into the actual enjoyment of the music. His familiarity with the actual music released over the years seems secondary. But in terms of the *whole* story, warts and all, including all the interpersonal stuff (which *did* impact the actual band's career as well at times), the Gaines book is still important, and a key book to cover the era up to, well, whatever year that book stops (essentially around the early-mid 80s).

I think the salacious stuff (stuff like Dennis's alleged prison fantasies, etc.) kind of scared people off of the book being the first book to retell key events like the Australia '78 debacle.

Gaines actually briefly posted here, and seemed to indicate he still had *tons* of audio covering a lot of what he covered in his book. For better and worse, that stuff should not only be preserved, but made available to scholars.



Ed Roach mentioned in a post to me on another board (and I believe on this one as well) that he was surprised at how factual Gaines' report of Dennis' last months was. IIRC he said that there was stuff in there, Ed thought only he would know.

Stephen became close with a number of key people, so I'm not surprised that this was accurate. He's a very likeable man personally - very witty and warm. I did NOT want to be in his book and hired an attorney in hopes of staying out of it, but it really wasn't feasible. Stephen knew that tabloid stuff sells (being successful with that previously), but he was actually a decent person. I think his friendships with Karen Lamm, Cynthia Lennon and others were very real. I got the impression he really cared about the BB's and friends, unlike a hateful fantasist UK author whom some people still believe. I refuse to name him. He was a drug addict at the time who simply made things up about people. Stephen Gaines would never do that.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 17, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
The Leaf book informed my early fandom on its reissue in 1985.  Agree with Debbie that it remains the major influencer of all of the major books that followed.

Unfortunately it costs a pretty penny these days, especially for someone just starting down the BB road.

Wasn't there talk of a revised edition at some point?

I sometimes run across a book by David Leaf just called The Beach Boys (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Beach-Boys-by-David-Leaf-1985-HC-DJ-Pages-208-Great-Condition/143246494207?epid=4474660&hash=item215a2809ff:g:MV8AAOSwO2pcjrjP). I'm assuming this is not the one in question. Just curious what it was.

That is the second edition of same book, with a further short addendum to the story included. The revised edition if you will...

Thanks for the clarification. You see the first edition go for big bucks, but this edition seems more moderately priced.


Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the David Leaf book I linked above. Looking forward to giving it a read. I'm adding Timothy White's book to my list.

You won't be disappointed.  Both men are/were great writers who loved Brian and his music.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: May 16, 2019, 05:32:17 PM
Here’s a mindblower... Brian’s been a touring solo artist almost as long as he was a Beach Boy and if we’re being technical about it, longer

Oh, Billy, thanks for noticing this. It gives some perspective.

Brian will probably continue to do oldies that the "non-niche fans" (? is that a thing?) lap up and dance to. They were still good songs. I'm afraid, as a long-time niche fan, I have fun watching the crowd enjoying those songs and relish the rarities. We'll probably get a mix as long as he chooses to tour.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 15, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
I'll add my two cents and my recommendation for the Timothy White book, The Nearest Faraway Place. Definitely seek this one out.

What White did was place the history of the band *in context* with the other histories which intertwined in and out of the band's own journey through generations, times, and places. It was far more than a family tree...In fact as mentioned, this was one of the first if not the first books to go into the family trees of the Wilsons, the Loves, etc. But White took it beyond that.

In discussing, let's say the song "409", White had already branched off and traced the history of Chevrolet and Ford, and how Ford's V-8 engine and Model A car became key elements of the hot-rod scene to follow in the 50's and 60's. White got into the Chevy Corvette, and the move toward high-power race inspired engines. And he got into how the hot rodders came about, devoting time to key players like Ed "Big Daddy" Roth, etc. Then it wrapped up with how Gary Usher came to own and drive a Chevy which he was hot-rodding piece-by-piece as many in the scene had to do as they earned more spare change to buy new parts...and Usher's hot rod Chevy was the car they revved up and recorded on the street with Brian's tape deck, which became the intro to "409", and how the ideas for that song started to flow as Brian and Gary were driving around car parts stores looking for things Gary wanted to add to his Chevy. "Giddy up...".

So that's just one example of how Timothy White wove so many elements and backstories and related histories into telling the story of the Beach Boys.

Too much of history - especially as taught in the schools but I won't jump on that soapbox - is now relegated to a system of rote memorization and programmed regurgitation of dates and names. Where is the context? What came before and after? *Why* did this event happen and what led directly to it happening? The dates and names have been recorded already...at some point the importance of memorizing and repeating those wears out its value...and you need to explore *why* beyond those names and numbers.

White did a masterful job at doing just that, and as this element of connecting the histories instead of spitting out data that had appeared elsewhere, it's a terrific read. I actually wish he had expanded more on the intertwining details and cut some of the band's data which had been reported and published elsewhere, or expanded the book in general, but what we got is top-notch writing and historical research.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and this book demonstrates that notion very well.




Craig, as usual I count on you to elucidate the thoughts I throw out there. You did it again.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 15, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
I found the family lineage very informative. Reading about Murry's dad, Buddy. Also one of Buddy's brothers (I think, it's been a while since reading the book) reminded me a lot of Brian - a lot of promise, but something emotionally /mentally happened. And reading that the closest relationship Brian had to relatives was to his maternal Grandfather. He could confide in him. Unfortunately he died while still in his fifties or early sixties.
As a lover of history I was fascinated and shocked by the conditions the Wilson family had to live in at Carmel by the Sea. What was Buddy thinking?!

Tim White went to great lengths to find a new, broader context. The way that the BBs are woven into to the American experience is fascinating.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 15, 2019, 07:32:59 AM
The Leaf book informed my early fandom on its reissue in 1985.  Agree with Debbie that it remains the major influencer of all of the major books that followed.

Unfortunately it costs a pretty penny these days, especially for someone just starting down the BB road.

Wasn't there talk of a revised edition at some point?

I sometimes run across a book by David Leaf just called The Beach Boys (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Beach-Boys-by-David-Leaf-1985-HC-DJ-Pages-208-Great-Condition/143246494207?epid=4474660&hash=item215a2809ff:g:MV8AAOSwO2pcjrjP). I'm assuming this is not the one in question. Just curious what it was.

I wish I knew more about this. I wasn't aware of it. Need to do a little research.  Maybe it's just someone selling a used copy of the 2nd edition? It's close to the same cover of have of that edition.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 14, 2019, 08:04:34 AM
The Leaf book informed my early fandom on its reissue in 1985.  Agree with Debbie that it remains the major influencer of all of the major books that followed.

Unfortunately it costs a pretty penny these days, especially for someone just starting down the BB road.

Wasn't there talk of a revised edition at some point?

David is busy being a UCLA professor these days, but he could also be writing. I guess we'll know if he announces some future projects. Another amazing (and famous) writer who was a friend of David's was Timothy White. "The Nearest Faraway Place" took a fascinating approach as well.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 77, 78... when do you think they should retire? on: May 10, 2019, 06:11:54 PM
1. When they want to
2. When they want to



Yep. These guys are so strong at their core, they'll retire exactly when they care to do it. I know many of us don't like what's been done to the BB's touring brand over the years, but that's been established for decades. In the end, it's all fine. The recordings will carry on as long as people can listen. That works for me.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Most Loved BB Book? on: May 09, 2019, 01:03:18 PM
I posted my thoughts about what I consider to be the best books about the band in a thread from a few years ago:

As noted by others above, Catch a Wave: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of The Beach Boys' Brian Wilson by Peter Ames Carlin is fantastic. To me it's the best starting point for anyone who is interested in reading a chronological overview of Brian's life.

Becoming The Beach Boys 1961-1963 by James B. Murphy is one of the most incredible books on the band I have ever had the pleasure of reading. The amount of details crammed into it, especially given its relatively limited temporal focus, is absolutely insane.

Speaking of incredible books, The Beach Boys In Concert: The Ultimate History Of America's Band On Tour And Onstage, by Ian Rusten and Jon Stebbins is another amazing resource for anyone interested in the touring history of the band. It's more of a reference book/textbook than a book book, but it's really something else.

Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile! is another amazing work. Similar to the In Concert book, it's more of a scrapbook than a book book, but it's extremely enlightening if you're interested in learning more about how the band was viewed/what was being written about the band in the press leading up to, during, and after The Smile Sessions.

The Lost Beach Boy: The True Story of David Marks by Jon Stebbins is another one worth reading. It contains a lot of stories you won't find anywhere else, and the amount of details David provides about the period of time that he was in the band, and what he was up to before the band was formed and after he left it, makes it an extremely worthy entry into the Beach Boys literary canon.

Wouldn't It Be Nice: Brian Wilson and the Making of Pet Sounds by Charles Granta is a solid book/resource. My only issue with it is that I never felt like the book really explored what Brian was aiming to accomplish by making Pet Sounds, (aside from what is already well known) nor did it add to my appreciation of the album itself, but it does have a lot of really good insider information about how the album was composed and produced. Tony Asher provided his own recollections of what the composing process with Brian was like.

I haven't yet had the pleasure of reading Philip Lambert's Inside the Music of Brian Wilson, but I own the book and actually plan to start reading the book later tonight. From everything I've ever heard about it though, it's highly recommended.

I own The Beach Boys and the California Myth, but never got around to reading it beyond the first couple of chapters. One of these days I will finish it.

There are plenty of other great books worth reading too – The Beach Boys FAQ: All That's Left To Know About America's Band by Jon Stebbins, Brian's recent autobiography/memoir, and from what I hear, The Real Beach Boy: Dennis Wilson by Jon Stebbins is great as well, although I haven't yet had the pleasure of reading it. But I feel like the books above are the cream of the crop when it comes to books written about the band.

Man... first post on this board in years, but I guess I'm back. I blame Sunshine Tomorrow. Grin

I would say my only update to this is that I have now read “Inside The Music of Brian Wilson”. It’s good, but dry. A lot of reviews point this out, and while reviews can sometimes be off-base with their critiques, it is an accurate criticism in this case.

For my money, the best book on the band is Jim Murphy’s “Becoming The Beach Boys”.

I would only add that "The Beach Boys and the California Myth" was a major reference used for many, if not most of these books.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New album by Blondie Chaplin this year on: May 05, 2019, 05:17:47 PM
I just poste dthis very nice article in the picture section:

https://easyreadernews.com/putting-the-boys-back-in-beach/?fbclid=IwAR1z0snZnczTXwLTYr2nJDEPi63N4HWsf9CbdPYXsLqaMVjekk0NYB0XYyE


But just after having posted it, I saw this:

After The Beach Boys, Chaplin went on to release solo albums (with another due out later this year)


Looking forward! A couple of months ago I found his first solo album on vinyl (I already had it as a needle drop from someone). It's really good, though a little too polished but not as disturbingly as with other albums. I always wanted to listen to more of his solo recordings. The "Hurricane" album was the latest one I believe.

Thanks so much!
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 03, 2019, 03:50:06 PM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?

This is why I'm leaving any negative comments that Brian might want "out there" to him. You'll probably hear few, if any from him.  Rocky was a complicated part of Brian's life, to say the least. I haven't read the book and can't anytime soon (emotionally) since I'm dealing with a complicated situation with my husband's health. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but I'm guessing Stan and Rocky were doing what they thought was their jobs. Also on a few things Rocky posted here in response to me comments - let's just say my memory was quite different. I didn't correct them. The truth is, it doesn't matter anymore. My sense is that Brian wants to be at peace with it all, and that certainly works for me. Brian (and I) truly don't like being at odds with others, and he deals with these things in his own way. I know I got really angry with people here since I'm so protective of Brian, family and friends. I said things I shouldn't have. I was just exhausted with all the destructive misinformation people were sharing and made a bad choice.  Brian is NOT forced to tour. It's his choice. So if anyone trashes his tour plans implying that it's against his will, I see red. They're diminishing the supportive people around Brian and his own personal choices, and I love and care about these people - the ones who REALLY knows what's going on with Brian without a personal agenda are the ones who are there for him personally.



First, I want to send my prayers to you and your husband! I have been through that with loved ones as well!

Any rumors I heard concerning Brian's current state was laid to rest when Al Jardine began touring with Brian. Al is a life long friend and I know that if anything was going on, he would have been against it. I think that Mike Love deeply cares for Brian as well and I can understand his suspicions based on those who have used Brian in the past. I have seen Mike tear up when talking about Brian.

Thanks so much for your support. And I prefer to remember Mike's lyrics to "Warmth of the Sun," his love of star-gazing, and his true generosity as a host than lawsuits from the past. Life works better that way.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Corvette For Sale on: May 03, 2019, 03:32:44 PM
Brian owned other Corvettes after 1992. If I am mistaken, please correct, but I think the one Debbie is referring to was white in color. Smiley

That's exactly correct, Craig.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Corvette For Sale on: May 03, 2019, 03:30:22 PM
It appears that the date on the title coincides with the general time frame when Landy had his last contact with Brian after the restraining order was filed. Possibly the car was titled  over to Brian as he was finally regaining his personal property.

Gnarly.

Might this mean that Landy or his goons were driving around in a Brian-owned Vette for a few years to pick up ladies, and then they grudgingly had to give it back via court order? Gross.

If so, I'll bet this Vette has traces of Landy or Surf Nazi DNA in it. If this car could tell stories...

From what I was told, Landy negotiated that he and Brian would both get a corvette for whatever endorsement (I can't remember).  It was a later model than the one pictured, so I think they are different corvettes. I saw Brian's later one, as a friend bought it. What happened to Landy's? - I have no idea.

That's oddly fascinating that Landy was so conniving in the Corvette department. I guess whatever he could squeeze out of people, he'd do.

But unless Brian owned a 1997 or newer Corvette, I don't think the Corvette you are recalling could have been a later body style than the 1990 Brian Corvete for sale at the link above.

Here's Brian's 1990 Vette:



That same Corvette body style lasted until 1996, which was long after Landy was 86ed; here's a pic of a 1996 Vette, which is nearly identical to Brian's 1990 one:



It wasn't until 1997 that the Vette looked visually different:



I love the idea of Brian owning/driving a Corvette, which might have been Brian's own way of paying tribute to Denny, whose '63 Corvette graced the cover of Shut Down Vol. II.

Sorry, I was thrown off by the photo posted in this thread with an earlier car and an earlier Brian. I should probably just shut up since I don't have the time to read completely through threads.  I'm a bit overwhelmed these days from home demands, so thanks for correcting me.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 01, 2019, 05:26:40 PM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?

This is why I'm leaving any negative comments that Brian might want "out there" to him. You'll probably hear few, if any from him.  Rocky was a complicated part of Brian's life, to say the least. I haven't read the book and can't anytime soon (emotionally) since I'm dealing with a complicated situation with my husband's health. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but I'm guessing Stan and Rocky were doing what they thought was their jobs. Also on a few things Rocky posted here in response to me comments - let's just say my memory was quite different. I didn't correct them. The truth is, it doesn't matter anymore. My sense is that Brian wants to be at peace with it all, and that certainly works for me. Brian (and I) truly don't like being at odds with others, and he deals with these things in his own way. I know I got really angry with people here since I'm so protective of Brian, family and friends. I said things I shouldn't have. I was just exhausted with all the destructive misinformation people were sharing and made a bad choice.  Brian is NOT forced to tour. It's his choice. So if anyone trashes his tour plans implying that it's against his will, I see red. They're diminishing the supportive people around Brian and his own personal choices, and I love and care about these people - the ones who REALLY knows what's going on with Brian without a personal agenda are the ones who are there for him personally.

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Corvette For Sale on: May 01, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
It appears that the date on the title coincides with the general time frame when Landy had his last contact with Brian after the restraining order was filed. Possibly the car was titled  over to Brian as he was finally regaining his personal property.

Gnarly.

Might this mean that Landy or his goons were driving around in a Brian-owned Vette for a few years to pick up ladies, and then they grudgingly had to give it back via court order? Gross.

If so, I'll bet this Vette has traces of Landy or Surf Nazi DNA in it. If this car could tell stories...

From what I was told, Landy negotiated that he and Brian would both get a corvette for whatever endorsement (I can't remember).  It was a later model than the one pictured, so I think they are different corvettes. I saw Brian's later one, as a friend bought it. What happened to Landy's? - I have no idea.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 24, 2019, 06:15:03 PM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


I think I made it fairly clear(?) that my "take" is just that, just as is anyone else's. Everything I write is what I mean, as well. That was at the beginning of my willingness to address this thread. I also have the right to share what I choose to share and leave the rest to Brian, since we're speaking of his life. Beyond that, I'm not a doctor either, so offering some sort of diagnosis would be ridiculous for anyone involved in this relentless drama. I've chosen not to show people at their worst - some held in high esteem here, others who aren't. I'd prefer not to be remembered for my weakest moments, either.

I'm not really certain what you're challenging about my comments, but I hope this answers a few questions. If you're claiming a right to know whatever happened with Brian, you should take it up with him.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: April 24, 2019, 06:00:23 PM
Thanks!
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I have laughed at this since I found it.. on: April 23, 2019, 08:11:19 AM
Ever since I found this clip on Al's youtube page I've laughed at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npsGA329kc

We're starting at 1:50, Al turns towards Brian and want a keyboard solo, Brian starts playing, turn around with a big "f*cker" expression on his face back towards Al.
So funny I had to share

Thx - loved that! I'm afraid those are the moments in concerts when I'm laughing so hard that I cry and I notice that the people around me think I'm nuts. Oh well, I have this vague memory of being shot that look myself. I don't remember the specifics, but in my case, I got the idea that I was saying something dumb and needed to shut up. Let's just say that there was a LOT I didn't know. Clearly, the whole band gets it and thinks it's funny. It's a "knock it off" thing.  LOL
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 23, 2019, 07:54:32 AM
Debbie, I will presumptuously speak for one and all: we are all sending you and your husband our love and prayers for him to come through his health issues. As I've always said, you and Ray and Ed are the reasons why SS is the place to be for talking BBs--you guys are the "soul" of this place and we are always in your debt!


Kudos to Don. And Deb, just know that there are many, just many of us out here that are wishing you and your husband the best we can. I know it's just cyberspace, but the well wishes are in real time. You are our treasure.

You guys are great, and kind. I'm feelin' the love for my husband.
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