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663434 Posts in 26586 Topics by 3816 Members - Latest Member: ILikeTheBeachBoys October 25, 2020, 06:28:26 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 21, 2020, 08:10:11 PM
Can we also talk about Bruce for a second?  He gets away practically scot-free with all this crap.  I know Mike calls the shots, but what, is Bruce suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?  No, he's a wealthy, grown man with free will, he doesn't have to keep touring and doing these highly questionable shows.  He gets  a tiny fraction of the criticism that Mike gets, despite going along with EVERY one of Mike's terrible, polarizing and hurtful actions.  I understand that his own political views are clearly similar to Mike's, but surely he can see the problems that these actions cause for Brian, Al, etc...We talk about Mike being a narcissist (which he is) but Bruce isn't much better. 
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 21, 2020, 08:01:51 PM
The irony in all this talking about dogs and what constitutes animal abuse - which I'm sure people reading the thread are thinking is off topic with regards to The BBs, and I'm practically waiting for someone to angrily post about how dare we discuss this on a Beach Boys forum - is that it doesn't take much to get the convo back on topic of The Beach Boys intertwined with Trump adjacent stuff, one only needs to think back to February of this year and the actions of good ol' ethical, good, decent person Mike E. Love.

Just take advice from Mike, and the decent people he associates with and shills for, and the shows he plays under the Beach Boys name, and go shoot some animals for kicks, shits, and giggles... and then maybe the right course of action on how to treat misbehaving animals (you know, when animals do naughty things like actually living and breathing) will become apparent.

 

I will never forgive Mike for that.  I'm not even talking about the ethics of hunting wildlife, but rather the off-the-charts hypocrisy of Mike peace-love-and-protect-the-environment Love playing for a trophy hunting organization.  I vowed then I'd never go see him again and it pains me that any BB purchases I make benefit him.  At this point, I feel nothing but anxiety at the prospect of a 60 anniversary tour because my feelings towards Mike are so negative.   
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 21, 2020, 07:44:02 PM
marcella27: A baby?  Really?  Babies don't engage in behavior that attempts to harm others.  Of course not.
About the rest of your post- sure, you're right, when you tangentically take this into caring for animals over the course of their lives - of course you need to identify problem behaviors and solve them without aggression. 
Your dog thinks like it is in a pack that you lead.  In the moment, when it is harming another living being, you attempt to overrule it with your voice, it can be aggressive and intimidating, and it is not psychological terror. 
This is getting pretty far off topic. 

Like I said, if my dog was harming another living being, I would do what I needed to do in that moment to do to stop it, and that would most likely involve shouting.  But that's an extreme example.  My point was that shouting as a form of "training" is counterproductive and can be very damaging.  And yes we are wildly off-topic, but you'd be surprised at what some people think is acceptable treatment of pets, and I feel pretty strongly about it based on what I've seen and experienced.  

4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 21, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

Quote
no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.  

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

Oh?  You can't reason, appeal or bargain with animals.  What do you do if you have a cat that enjoys periodically crapping in the corner of your bedroom?  Let it happen?  What do you do if your dog periodically has a bad habit of attacking smaller dogs when you take it to the park?  You shout at it as aggressively as you can, because that is the COOL way to handle it.  NOT COOL would be to physically harm it with force or psychologically harm it with shock collars or invisible fences.  

Likewise, people like this poster in question who hold dangerous viewpoints and clearly can not be bargained with about a topic anymore, will not consider reasonable arguments to the contrary anymore, and have never been open to appeals must be shouted down, over and over again, by as many members of society as possible.  To do anything further would be NOT COOL.

You can't reason with a baby either, but would you "shout as aggressively as you can" at one?  You can definitely bargain with animals (it's called positive reinforcement; you're getting them to behave how you want in exchange for food, praise and playing).  And while you can't reason with them, you have to use reason yourself to solve problem behaviors.  You asked what I would do if my cat crapped in my bedroom?  I would a) check it's litter box was clean 2) check that the cat wasn't sick 3) consider if the cat was in some other kind of distress.  If my dog kept attacking smaller dogs at the park?  While I would shout in order to stop an actual attack in the moment, just as important would be to figure out WHY the dog was doing that, so I would be working with a dog trainer (spoiler:  it's usually fear or illness).  

Shouting at a dog "as aggressively as you can" is extremely damaging to the dog and will not result in good behavior, unless you consider that being scared shitless qualifies as good behavior.  These are called aversive training methods and you will not find any reputable trainer who uses them.  Yelling and other aversive methods are documented to traumatize dogs:  https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/823427v1

I volunteer at a shelter that takes in a significant number of dogs that have been abused.  Some is physical but just as much is psychological.  Physical abuse is terrible but so is terrorizing your pet in other ways.  A previous dog of mine would go to the basement and hide if my husband and I raised our voices at each other.  I could go on but I won't.  Please, please, please don't scream at your pets.      

Edited to add that I completely agree with you about physical abuse and things like shock collars; my point is that yelling is another form of psychological harm. 

5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 20, 2020, 10:25:02 PM
Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

Quote
no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 20, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

I thought the shows with Reagan were billed as "patriotic" shows involving the sitting president.  If I'm correct, that's very different from playing a campaign fundraiser two weeks before an election.  Mike is not playing for Trump in his capacity as the president, but rather as a candidate.
 
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 20, 2020, 08:32:52 AM
Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

Quote
no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 19, 2020, 09:41:56 PM
Can I implore people to be civil, even when faced with opinions that you may find extremely upsetting? We have to learn (or re-learn) to have some tolerance for views that dont match our own.  There are some opinions that have been stated here that I disagree with 100%, but that's okay.  The hate and division have to stop somewhere.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 18, 2020, 10:06:55 PM
Mike can do whatever he wants under his own name.  What he should in no circumstances do, however, is play a fundraiser two weeks ahead of the most politically charged election ever, and do it under the name of the Beach Boys, a name that is indelibly linked with other people that may not share the same views.  

Is he actually trying to go down as the most hated man in the history of rock and roll?  I'm being serious.  Do you think it's some kind of pathological need to keep the attention on himself?  To be the best at something, anything, even if it's being the best at being the worst?  

I felt like this after the trophy hunting show..I just absolutely DESPISE him for continually embarrassing his former bandmates and for letting his fans down over and over and over.  I live in a city that votes 85% Democrat.  In all seriousness, I wouldn't feel comfortable going out in a BB tshirt right now.  I can separate the band from that idiot, but most people can't.  

I don't know much about the licensing agreement, but knowing what he's like, I don't know why Brian and Al ever agreed to the arrangement that allowed him to have the name.  I'm not saying that they should have been able to look into the future and anticipate that Mike would use the name to try to re-elect a misogynist, morally bankrupt president, but they should have known that no good would come of letting him be "the Beach Boys".  They must really be questioning the decision now.  
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl's personal music tastes on: October 05, 2020, 11:08:49 PM
Interesting tidbit, thanks! I love almost all those songs. I read somewhere, or maybe it was a TV interview, that Carl decided to work with Randy Bachman (ahead of KTSA) because "Randy likes to rock and I like to rock", or something along those lines.  I do feel like Carl had a tendency to want to do some harder songs.  As others here have said, his solo stuff was much better live than on the albums, and you get a sense of that "wanting to rock" on the live recordings. I think it's kind of too bad the BBs didn't delve into some slightly harder rock at some point.  You hear it on "In Concert", where they manage to totally rock out on songs like Help Me Rhonda.  I would love to hear more like that. 
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail Plane Song (2012 version) appreciation thread on: September 26, 2020, 02:03:36 PM
I absolutely love he 2012 version of Sail Plane Song, and it's one of the tracks I play most off MIC.  I am also not a fan of drawing on the Mona Lisa, but I think what we ended up with with Sail Plane Song was arguably better than the demo/original version.  Love it.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did The Beach Boys Play To Segregated Audiences on: September 17, 2020, 09:26:18 AM
Well, even though I love the BBs, I think that far worse was the decision to play in apartheid South Africa in dec 1981 and January 1982 and in an interview at the time Mike thumbed his nose at the complainers. But times change-he May feel much different in hindsight

His insistence on playing the trophy hunting show last year seems to indicate he still enjoys thumbing his nose at those who criticize.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Happy Birthday! on: September 03, 2020, 09:19:01 AM
A very happy birthday to the great Al Jardine.  Looking forward to seeing the eternally youthful Al jog around a stage sometime in the future!

For his birthday, he set up a fundraiser for the Monterey SPCA and its efforts to help animals affected by the fires.  Details on his facebook page if anyone is interested in donating. 
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Celebrating 50 years of \ on: July 09, 2020, 10:37:32 AM
I've never thought the PS album cover was bad.  But then again, I think goats are really cool. 
I think the cover of Keepin the Summer Alive is brilliant.  Had the album itself been better, I think we'd be looking at that cover differently.
Surf's Up and Summer Days, Summer Nights!! are some of my favorite covers.   
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Archie salutes Beach Boys on: June 22, 2020, 07:38:08 PM
That is super cool!
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Happy birthday Brian! on: June 20, 2020, 10:30:01 AM
A very happy birthday to Brian!  Sending wishes for health and happiness. 
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Kokomo In Netflix Series on: May 09, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Mike Love single on: May 02, 2020, 04:24:41 PM
My husband pointed out that the "fun fun fun" part kind of sounds like the Sunrays' I Live for the Sun. 
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Mike Love single on: May 01, 2020, 11:23:00 PM
The lyrics are incredibly cheesy but the song itself isn't horrible, just generic poppy stuff.  I've heard much worse.  Not worth making a fuss about, in my opinion,  and I guess he was trying to do a nice thing.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys “Reunion” on Saturday? on: April 26, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Elora on youtube has us covered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ianPM0emP3o
Thanks for posting this.

I'm still processing this exchange in the comments section--


Just for my own sanity I’m going to choose to believe that was tongue-in-cheek. 

Check out his follow-up comments. He wasn't kidding!  Grin

(There must be a fairly small subset of people who know the BBs well enough to namecheck Bruce Johnston, yet consider John Stamos an original member.)


This guy was 100% tongue-in-cheek. Source: Am that guy.

Well-played...
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys “Reunion” on Saturday? on: April 25, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
Elora on youtube has us covered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ianPM0emP3o
Thanks for posting this.

I'm still processing this exchange in the comments section--



Just for my own sanity I’m going to choose to believe that was tongue-in-cheek.  

You know, I can tolerate Stamos in almost any other setting. I  actually really liked him on the vastly underrated Scream Queens.  But as soon as I see him in a BB context I just want to punch him in the face.  He just looks like he thinks he’s the bomb and it drives me absolutely crazy.  It’s like, you are NOT a beach boy and you’re actually associated with the very crappiest parts of BB-dom. 

And with that out of my system, I think they sounded pretty good.  Christian Love looks so much like Mike here it’s incredible.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys “Reunion” on Saturday? on: April 24, 2020, 11:40:49 AM
I feel like if something like that was happening, they'd be dropping some pretty big hints to get viewership up.  No one else is listed in the full list of performers. 
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Marcella on: April 07, 2020, 07:38:31 PM
You guys are all much better than I at identifying voices, but the “Marcella hey” part on the album doesn’t sound like Carl to me.  However, I can’t figure out who it does sound like.  Are we sure it can’t be Ricky?  Listening to some of the live versions, I’m sure I can hear Ricky - not on that particular part, but rather on the harmony of the main “one arm over my shoulder” part.  And on the live versions, it DOES sound like Carl on the “Marcella hey” part. 
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Marcella on: April 05, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
I think the original album track is perfect, though I do love the live versions as well.  With all due respect, I think your sped-up version is a bit too poppy and takes a bit of the moody edge away from the song. 

This is THE song that led me down the path of becoming a deep, deep fan.  I still remember hearing it for the first time...and replaying it as soon as it was over.  And replaying it again!  The vocals in the end tag are among my very favorite BB musical moments ever. 
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / A little levity on: March 22, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uDTs-9fq00

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