I've often defended Mike's usage of The BBs name due to him being the only member of the group who hasn't quit touring with the group, at any point for any reason. Say what you will about the other guys, but you can't say that. I can understand why he feels an emotional ownership of the touring group- just as I understand how Brian or Carl would feel that way about the studio.

I don't think it was Mike's plan in the 60's and 70's to replace his cousins and friend. Then again, he wasn't in the place of power to say so. Like most things in life, it was probably a gradual realization and decision- not one that happened over night, to delude the core members onstage to Bruce and himself. The first time we see a Mike led BBs was when Carl left in the early 80's to pursue his solo career... Note Adrian's tenure during this time, and replacement soon upon Carl's return. Mike and Adrian were collaborating at the time, so Adrian being in Mike's version of the band makes sense. The set lists were also clearly Mike driven, with cuts like Surfin and Long Tall Texan showing up frequently... Can't imagine Brian begging to play those.

Was it during this time that Mike possibly first thought that it didn't/doesn't matter to mass audiences how many principle members were onstage? With Carl gone, Brian & Dennis' lack of consistency, I can imagine Mike starting to think "Maybe I could do this on my own"


Or perhaps it was moderate success with California Beach Band/Endless Summer Band/Mike & Dean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDg8-W6ywU

In this video, the audience is pretty nice. Obviously not equal to the BBs touring stadiums- but a crowd size/venue I can't see many artists, let alone Mike caring about. I watch this video (which is a quite great performance by the way) and I can almost imagine Mike's gears spinning...

And by the 90's, his relationship with Al was strained (which is something I'm still longing to understand better) and by the time he secured the license, he could, for the first time since 1982  choose who was on stage, and more glaringly, who wasn't.

I don't write this to make Mike out as the bad guy. I actually write it as an observer of his show for many years. Giggens made a good point on a recent Youtube video about liking the variety the current BBs fan is presented with. I couldn't agree more. You can go for a pop symphony or a great rock, guitar driven band. Al, David Marks, and Dean Torrence all offer their own flavor of show too (sometimes all three of them together!) All give me that great BBs feeling. These guys know what they're doing. Much credit owed to Paul Von Mertens and Scott Totten (Musical Directors), and other MVPs like Darian, Matt Jardine, Tim Bonhomme and Cowsill for playing their respective roles in keeping the legacy alive....

When do you think Mike realized he could "seize" the band so to speak? And perhaps Al was catching onto this and it is the reason for their strained relationship?



Also, side question: is it true that Dean filled in for Bruce sometime in the early 2000's? If so, are there any pictures, and did he take Bruce's leads? I remember reading something to that extent on here years ago.

Very interesting. Surfin Safari sounds very nice, they certainly pulled off the illusion- despite some pretty noticeable phase issues...

Agreed that Da Doo Ron Ron sounds very, very strange. Aside from the obvious phase issues, there must be something else going on, but I still can't put my finger on it.

Very nice, but mood wise, I would put I Went To Sleep and Time To Get Alone mixed in with the Friends songs.

Wonderful analysis! Was a joy to watch

Favorite: Sunflower  (Close second Love You)

Least Favorite: Stars And Stripes

Overrated: BB85

Underrated: SIP (That's not to say it's gold, but I don't think it deserves the hate it gets- there are some nice gems hidden in there)

During the performance of Forever, looks like Randell Kirsche playing the acoustic bass!

FINALLY, some news!

Get excited everyone!

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/2020-tribeca-film-festival-brian-wilson-ronnie-wood-961222/

I so badly want to try the UAD Capitol Chambers plugin...

I've been using East West "Spaces" plugin almost exclusively for reverb recently- it's a delight to use. It emulates the reverb sound Brian got at Western quite well.

Wonderful, wonderful interview.

And not to rehash the BBs / J&D argument, but here Brian, when talking about Surfin', says it was influenced by J&D.

Also love hearing about the early Candix tunes.

I could listen to this interview over and over. Brian sounds quite lucid and engaged here.

Surfin USA, Rock And Roll Music, Here Today, Be Here In The Morning, Spirit of America, Do It Again, Cool Cool Water, and yes, I cant lie, Barbara Ann. 

I absolutely love Dean's "Legendary Masked Surfers" versions of Sidewalk Surfin and Summer Means Fun that he did with Bruce and Terry. Great energy and great harmonies.

As for Jan and Brian, they are incredibly hard to compare, but intertwined story wise, so it'd be ludicrous not to acknowledge Brian in Jan's story, and Jan in Brian's. They each influenced each other, and were creating very similar sounds simultaneously.

I think you can certainly hear the beginning of the California Sound in pre-BBs J&D music. I recall Dean talking about the process behind recording Barbara Ann for their Greatest Hits Vol 1 album (in the liner notes of the 71 Anthology album).  He said the label didn't allot them much of a budget for the LP, so they had to do most (if not all) the voices themselves, by syncing two tape machines, giving them more tracks to record harmonies on. Their version of Barbara Ann is quintessential California Sound to me. Soaring falsetto, locked harmonies, tight backing track. Jennie Lee, Baby Talk, Sunday Kind of Love, and particularly Linda also contain those elements. When Surfin' was initially released in late '61, I don't think it's any stretch to imagine that people would think it sounded like J&D. They had been having hit after hit with their "bomps" since 1958.

However, by the time the Boys have written and recorded Surfin Safari and the material surrounding it, it is clear they have their own style. Both the BBs and J&D were Rock and Roll, but the  BBs had a more present jazz influence, whereas J&D had an R&B influence. Where J&D would be having a total ball, even if that meant singing a little out of tune- The BBs were master vocalists and harmonizers and Jan took notice.

You can see with Jan's versions of "Surfin" and "Surfin Safari" that he was studying, or at the very least, appreciative of Brian's songs and arrangements. But he saw the potential, and that they could be *more*. With J&D's two BBs covers on the "Take Linda Surfin" LP, you have fatter, richer backing tracks than on The BBs versions. While this can partially be attributed to the fact that The BBs played those backing tracks, and had gotten more practice since the initial recordings, there is no doubt in my mind that this "fatter" sound can be largely attributed to Jan's skills as a producer.

Brian watched Jan in the studio. He saw Jan work with the Wrecking Crew (probably years before he got to observe Spector work with the WC), and how Jan's primary instrument was the studio. In the case of Surf City, Jan prepared charts for every musician. Every note was transcribed- for the layers of drums, guitars, and keys. Jan had a vision for how the song should sound, and his behavior and the way he conducted himself in the studio reflected that. He was a man on a mission.

Surf City was a huge leap forward for the California Sound. Where Surfin Safari and even Surfin USA, sound like a contained group, Surf City sounds like a Surfin' Symphony! Double drum set, layered guitars, doubled lead vocals (Jan more present, Brian shadowing him). It's a HUGE sound. No wonder the entire world took notice.

After Surf City, with both Jan and Brian both having a number one hit under their belt, they understandably probably BOTH felt very confident, and like they didn't *need* eachother. This was true. In the coming years, both Jan and Brian would produce hits independent of each other, and in a roundabout way, create two camps for fans to reside in- The BBs camp or the J&D camp.

But the funny thing is, Jan and Brian were close friends with a lot of respect for each other. They were collaborators. Brian and Jan wrote Drag City, Ride The Wild Surf, and many other classics together. They sang on each other's records. (I recall hearing for many years that J&D were possibly on Help Me Rhonda) when Jan was in recovery from his accident, Jan and Brian worked together on Don't You Just Know It, and I believe Brian may have been present at some COS sessions.  I don't think either has *ever* said anything negative about the other.
 
So while the BBs fans will always think Brian was superior, and the J&D fans will always think Jan was superior, it'd be silly to pin these two friends and collaborators against each other.

Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll,


I have that LP. It's a bootleg from the 70's. Great, great music.

Brian: Don't Worry Baby, Midnight's Another Day, I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, I'm So Young, Oh Lord (sooooo damn emotional!!!!)

Dennis: Do You Wanna Dance, Pacific Ocean Blues, Forever, Baby Blue

Carl: Good Timin, God Only Knows, Good Vibrations, California Feelin, The Night Was So Young, Kokomo

Alan: Help Me Rhonda, Strange Things Happen, Cottonfields (single), Don't Worry Baby (73 Concert LP)

Bruce: Deirdre, Endless Harmony, God Only Knows, California Girls

Mike: Cabinessence (tag), All I Wanna Do, Rock And Roll Music, Fun Fun Fun, Here Today, Crescent Moon, Surfin USA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbLvZhP0BOQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrHHL52utC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CiBJlBCCoE



All things considered, Brian sang very well at his first show of 2020. His introduction of River Deep was more than I got at his November Milwaukee show (not a word).

Nice setlist. Brian's voice sounded mellow. The band sounded stellar as always. Alan kicking ass needless to say.

Some of the Copyright box sets are gone (glad I downloaded them)

But MIC is still on my Apple Music

Man, that sounded brutal for the interviewer. He was really, really trying...

However, I obviously feel for Bri. Sounds like he was suffering one of his "off" days.

Nonetheless, some funny BW moments. Why he likes California Girls? "Because it's about girls"

I hear Adrian Baker all over the tracks. Every song I can hear his voice I think. Surfin USA and the intro to California Girls are similar if not identical to the versions on Mike's Catch A Wave CD, produced by Baker himself. I obviously hear Mike and Glen's leads. They sound pretty good. I 100% hear Dean Torrence's signature falsetto on Surf City. On the highest harmony of the "surffff cittyyyy" backing vocals. I really liked hearing Glen sing Jan's part on Surf City. He did great Jan impressions on Carnival of Sound and he still could do it well in the 90's.

Despite the sketchy circumstances, and for not being the full band, I'd say this is an all-star lineup of let's say, BBs associates. Mike, Bruce, David, and Glen equal four members of the BBs throughout their history, Stamos can hold his own on drums and had been playing with them for years, not to mention Dean who had been playing with the band since the early 60's. In fact, I'd have been thrilled for any of those guys to stay on full time.... Not Stamos tho

I agree that Bruce was a much better bassist, than even he gives himself credit for. California Girls, I Get Around and Help Me Rhonda aren't exactly easy basslines to master! Wish he'd still pick up the bass in the encore, like he did throughout the 80's. Even if it was just Barbara Ann or Help Me Rhonda, like he used to.

While Bruce contributes very little in the Lead Vocal and Keyboard department, I'd say he's one of the heavy lifters in the band regarding the backing harmonies. His voice in the blend makes Mike's band sound infinitely more like The Beach Boys. Don't believe me? Compare nearly any  video of Mike's band to this (a show without Bruce) and you'll hear what i mean...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tkXjjx2LZE

Without Bruce, the harmonies don't sound as full, and as "Beach Boy-Ish" - when Bruce is there and I'm seeing the group live, at points I'll close my eyes and feel like I'm listening to the records.

Singing Beach Boys harmony is HARD, and if Bruce took no leads, and didn't even have a keyboard, I'd still commend him for being able to sing those intricate harmonies night after night.

However, I do wish he'd take more leads. His voice is certainly strong enough. In fact, I wish he and Christian would trade verses on GOK, for example. There's something more touching about hearing an actual BB, let alone one who's on the original mix, sing that song. I WISH Bruce would play the bass again on some oldie encore songs- like he did on Help Me, Rhonda and/or Barbara Ann for years. Just for the fans. I think that'd be so badass.

Fantastic interview.

So cool to hear such an in depth, comfortable, and well researched interview with Al.

Interesting to note that Blondie sang the high parts on Cal Saga.


Nice to hear Al talk about the Long Promised Road biopic, looks like progress is still being made.

And did Al accidentally (as always) hint at Love & Mercy broadway show at the end?

Interesting to see that with M&B's Malt Shop Memories Cruise, Dean Torrence and the Surf City Allstars are also playing, as "Jan and Dean's Beach Party Starring Dean Torrence". We know that while Dean plays 5-8 of J&D's most recognizable hits, his setlists are pretty BBs heavy. And at this point, it's not just like he throws in Surfin Safari or Little Deuce Coupe (which J&D recorded in their heyday) , but now his band also plays stuff like God Only Knows, Wouldn't It Be Nice, and Sail On Sailor. It seems that whoever goes first would steal the other band's thunder. I'm not sure how many people want TWO BBs shows (although I wouldn't be complaining!!!!! )

Maybe it'll push Dean to dive into the J&D catalog a little more and bring back stuff he's rarely played since Jan passed... Baby Talk, Linda, Jennie Lee ... and maybe even bring some J&D classics to the stage that haven't been played in decades- I can see the Doo Wop stuff like Heart & Soul, Popsicle, Who Put The Bomp, going over well in this "oldies" setting, even though Dean isn't a huge fan of that era. It's hard to imagine Three Window Coupe or I Found A Girl wouldn't bring a few smiles.

Either way, having both acts is a treat for a "California Sound" fan, but an odd choice marketing wise. Marketing one would potentially step on the other's toes, since there's so much thematic and content overlap. But I also have no doubt that The BBs will be presented as a much more major act than Dean. Perhaps Dean will be BB's opening act. Just the J&D songs to set the crowd up and set the scene... And if that doesn't happen, I have a feeling he might join Mike's band for the encore, which he's done for years.

As for that classic '63-65 Fender Bass sound, like Warmth Of The Sun, Catch A Wave, Hushabye, Wendy... Those, to my knowledge, are solely Al on Fender Bass. He likely would've used a pick. On Fun, Fun, Fun and I Get Around, for example, Al (on the Fender) was doubled by Ray (and I believe Glen Campbell) on Dano. But a lot of those '64 tracks were just Al. I think that sharp sound can largely be attributed to using a pick- that's why it's not as prominent when Brian plays Fender Bass, since he uses his thumb. Think about the difference in Fender Bass sound between Surfin USA, Little Deuce Coupe, and 409 - round and warm - versus stuff like Catch A Wave, All Summer Long, Merry Christmas Baby - sharp "string noise". That's the difference between Brian playing with his thumb and Al playing with a pick.

Of course by Today, Summer Days, and Pet Sounds, the bass lines were becoming much more layered. It wouldn't be uncommon for a song to feature String Bass, Fender Bass, and Dano Bass, and that's where things can get a little tricky. Also interesting to note that, Brian seems to have played the Fender and Dano Bass on That's Not Me, which has some parts in unison and some complementing each other- typical of most of BW's arrangements at the time.

guitarfool2002,

you say "That's just my own view, I still wish Mike being the lyricist that he's touted as being would have (or would period) expanded out from these weird 60's beach and dragstrip fantasies and put pen to paper on some different themes, perhaps more relevant to his own age and experience."

I think Crescent Moon, Cool Head Warm Heart, All I Wanna Do, Big Sur, Only With You, Ram Raj, Meant For You, etc (I could go on and on) certainly qualify, as being lyrically expansive from the beach and dragstrip fantasies. All I Wanna Do,  Big Sur and Only With You are  masterpieces, in my opinion, both lyrically and musically.

Saying Mike just writes Surfing lyrics, is like saying The Beach Boys only made Surfing music. Sure, at a glance it could look that way, but the truth is quite the opposite. Do It Again aside, it's not like Mike was writing about hot rods and hamburgers as his contributions in the Brother/Reprise era. He was contributing great stuff like the songs I already mentioned, as well as All This Is That, Don't Go Near The Water, and more. To say Mike just wrote surfing lyrics, is to neglect a large portion of his career. Sure, he was ready and eager to return to surf music with MIU, but that was post Endless Summer, when everything was different. Note, Al wasn't eager to pump out stuff like Lookin At Tomorrow post-Endless Summer, Mike wasn't the only one who was subject to this.

I love that idea so much and would certainly  tune in.

I couldn't name too many specific shows, but there are several era I wish I could witness, especially since I've only been able to see them since 2014, so I've only seen Brian's band, Mike's band, and Dean Torrence's band. Unfortunately I'm too young to have witnessed the full group, when Carl was alive, so I have a long list.......

1. 1962 Garage Band era - I would love to see the Boys still so young, playing early hits like Surfin, Safari, 409, and all the other classic (sometimes goofy) rockers they made their own.

2. 64-65 touring "heyday" - Would be amazing to see the original core members doing what they do best. Mike entertaining the crowd, and even playing some sax. Brian playing the Fender Bass, quite proficiently I might add. Carl and Al creating a wall of guitars in a way only they could. And of course, Denny drumming away, fast as lighting. Not to mention the beautiful harmonies, which the boys could somehow produce in a venue of hysteric screaming girls; the energy  would be incredible

3. '68 era - I love this era, when Carl beefed the band on top, with everyone playing top notch. Bruce killed it on Fender Bass and keys. Carl was finally coming into his own as band leader. I love hearing how excited the group was playing All I Want To Do and Johnny B Goode. Carl was truly beginning to craft an incredible, sophisticated touring unit.

4. Blondie & Ricky era- How could you not want to witness this era? Seeing them when Bruce was still there would be even cooler. Anyway, this was Carl's band direction at its best. The group was so locked in. They rocked on the ballads, and played with the sophistication of the Wrecking Crew on the ballads. Again, everyone in top notch. Blondie and Ricky added a lot musically. And seeing Dennis up in front would be a sight to see!

5. Finally a specific show- Fourth of July 1980. I feel like I don't even need to elaborate, but if you had a good spot, imagine that show. All those people. Wow. Dennis' drumming was awesome at that show.

6. '93 Box Set tour. Enough said.

7. Now you've gotta hear me out on this one - '98-99 post-Carl 'Adrian' /Family&Friends era -   Yes, I know the BBs group wasn't playing at the musical caliber Carl had set, but I love Phil B's singing and guitar playing, and Meros was always excellent. Al's Family & Friend's band was stellar too. Would've loved to see them. Too bad their reunion didn't happen. I'm just so fascinated with this era of the band, it's really interesting to me. Breakaway and Lookin At Tomorrow would've been great to hear from Al's group. And I have to admit, I have a soft spot (based on boots) of Mike's band playing Duke of Earl.

8. BW Presents SMiLE tour - How mind blowing would that have been? To hear SMiLE (as close as possible to being) complete?? And BW was on fire during that tour.

9. C50. So sad I missed it. I wish I could've seen The core BBs reunited. Those shows were magical.

10. Recent M&B BBs shows at Royal Albert Hall - they play crazy setlists with all sorts of goodies like Surf's Up, Til I Die, All This Is That, Please Let Me Wonder, etc... Not to mention literally all the hits, and more. It's a super long show, and I'd love to see it. (Just like how I loved seeing BW's recent 2019 tour, filled with rarities)


With all that being said, I'm so thankful to have gotten to see the shows I have seen. Living legends up there right in front of me. It's a magical experience I'll be forever grateful for.