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1976  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: October 11, 2007, 01:43:53 PM
AGD - Yeah, the bass is Mike, but every other bv sounds like a few Bruces to me.

This got me scurrying for the IPod...listening, you could be right.  If I was gonna bet on it, I'd say it's Mike on the bottom harmony (I know we're not talking about the "my daughter" counterpoint...I'm talking about the actual stack).  It's nasal and a little under the pitch.  The rest I can't tell...but it is awfully tight and well blended.  It could be someone multitracking themselves and if so, yeah, Bruce is the likely culprit.  It seems like an odd thing to happen on the LOVE YOU sessions, but who knows.  The thing is, it's so far back in the mix and on one side that it'd be hard to say with certainty without soloing the track.

I have to see Earle Mankey in a couple of weeks for a mastering session and if someone reminds me I'll ask him if he remembers Bruce coming in and doing something like that.

BTW, sounds like the master tape had a little trouble round the capstan when they mastered the CD...I hear a tiny "squiggle" in this part.
1977  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: October 11, 2007, 11:07:22 AM
Hmm. Now if he cloned himself....would that mean he would get more birthday cake per year?
Listening to Love You in detailed circumstances once again gives me an appreciation for it. I loved it before, but even playing the chords on piano proves it's more complex than it seems.
There are lots of those signature "slash chords" that BW favors. You know, Bm/E

The production is far better than 15 Big Ones' wooden blandery.
Though I wish "That Special Feeling" and "Marilyn Rovell" were on here. Love You seems almost too short...probably because in my playlist I always ditch Mona and Ding Dang.

Word on this...I remember working out "Solar System" for my band to do and it's quite complex, actually, without sounding it.  The roots are all over the place.  IIRC, it's F#/C# and then...damn, i forgot.  Anyway...

Darian Sahanaja's pre-Wondermints single that did two late period BW songs (one from LOVE YOU) in the '65 production style are revelatory.  You realize how good the underlying songs are.

Alan Boyd and others have indicated that 15BO and some of the other '70s BBs work got unsympathetic mixdown treatment.  Certainly a close listen to, say, the track of "Had To Phone Ya" offers support to this idea.  There's quite an arrangement going on there, but the final mix is reaallllly thin.
1978  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: October 10, 2007, 11:17:48 AM
What's the source for Bruce multitracking himself on the tag of  "I'll Bet He's Nice"?  I've always thought I've heard him in the blend, but I'd be surprised to hear it's all him.
1979  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys vocals on other artist's albums? on: October 04, 2007, 11:48:45 AM
A couple of noteworthy late '80s appearances:  Carl and Bruce sing on two tracks on Elton John's REG STRIKES BACK album, most noticeably on "Since God Invented Girls," one of EJ's best late period tracks and one of the very few where he uses his old falsetto.  The whole band (minus Brian, plus Billy Hinsche) also sang backup on Joan Jett's "Good Music" single.  Of all people to get the whole band together to sing, you'd never think it was Joan Jett.  Apparently it just snowballed from one person to the whole band ("he's doing it?  I want to do it too!") although I don't remember where I heard this.  Carl even plays the "Sloop John B" guitar riff on the track. 

As for Carl's appearance on "California Girls," I recall an interview somewhere with Carl where Roth's people had asked Carl if he'd be offended if they asked him to sing on it and he had said "hell no!"  Carl sings the part Bruce Johnston did on the original.  I  had heard somewhere that Bruce is on this track too, but I think that was probably not really the case.
1980  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl/Dennis mini-set part of \ on: October 04, 2007, 11:42:36 AM
Quite well!  Good crowd, and we managed not to mangle anything too bad.  Mike Kowalski was there for awhile, which was a surprise.  I had not met him before.

Here was the set list:

1. PORPOISE SONG (Monkees)
2. FATES CRY FOUL
3. TAKE ME TO THE PILOT (Elton John)
4. TEARS OF JOY
5. OTHER THAN ME
6. FREE MAN IN PARIS (Joni Mitchell)
7. BEAUTIFUL LIE (Evie)
8. STUCK IN THE MIDDLE (Stealer's Wheel)
9. FOLSOM PRISON BLUES (Johnny Cash)
10. EL PASO (Marty Robbins)
11. MY KICKASS LIFE
12. CAR WHEELS ON A GRAVEL ROAD (Lucinda Williams)
13. SOLAR SISTER (Posies)
14. DISAPPEAR
15. HALF LIFE
16. HAVE YOU SEEN HER (Chi-Lites)
17. KARMA FROG
18. DON'T WANNA KNOW IF YOU ARE LONELY (Husker Du)
19. A MILLION MILES AWAY (Plimsouls)
20. THEN I'll BE HAPPY

21. BURN DOWN THE WORLD
22. LOVE TRAIN (O'Jays)
23. STAYIN' ALIVE (Bee Gees)
24. THE BLUES ARE STILL BLUE (Belle & Sebastian)
25. HOT FUN IN THE SUMMERTIME (Sly & The Family Stone)
26. DOES EVERYONE STARE (The Police)
27. KNOCKS ME OFF MY FEET (Stevie Wonder)
28. THE FOGHORN
29. WALK DON'T RUN (Ventures)
30. JOE'S GARAGE (Frank Zappa)
31. SWEET RICKY (Evie)
32. I SAW HER STANDING THERE (Beatles)
33. BIG BIG YEAH
34. WHEN I LIED TO EVERYONE
35. MONKEY GONE TO HEAVEN (Pixies)
36. ROCKAWAY BEACH (Ramones)
37. TWIST BARBIE (Shonen Knife)
38. PRETTY VACANT (Sex Pistols)
39. MARRIED YET
40. I DON'T WANNA DANCE WITH YOU (new original)

41. A SOLDIER'S THINGS (Tom Waits)
42. CUT AND RUN
43. DON'T LOOK BACK DON'T LOOK DOWN (Evie)
44. IT NEVER RAINS IN SOCAL (Albert Hammond)
45. VICTORIA (Kinks)
46. THE BIG BEAR
47. OLD TRAILS
48. FOREVER (Beach Boys)
49. GOOD VIBRATIONS (Beach Boys)
50. RIVER SONG (Dennis Wilson)
51. MOONSHINE (Dennis Wilson)
52. WHAT'S WRONG (Dennis Wilson)
53. LONG PROMISED ROAD (Beach Boys)
54. ALL I WANT TO DO (Beach Boys)
55. CAN'T LET GO (Evie)
56. CALIFORNIA SUN (The Rivieras)
57. DIRTY WATER (The Standells)
58. STRANGER ON THE TOWN (The Damned)
59. HALO BOY
60. ROCK 'N' ROLL ALL NITE (Kiss)
1981  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1996 on: October 03, 2007, 11:43:55 AM
Mike Love is an interesting fella IMO, and would make a good subject of a psychoanalytic biography. When I've seen him interviewed or camping it up on stage, he always seems on the verge of self-parody, like a very brittle, effeminate version of Mick Jagger. He's probably personable to some degree, but you wouldn't leave your kids with him. Quite funny how Brian gathered the reputation for eccentricity with Mike around. I have a nagging suspicion, that whilst I don't advocate violence in any form, Mike would have benefited from a good slap around the head every now and then. Dennis Wilson obviously thought so.

A fairly down-to-earth person who once was around the Beach Boys quite a bit "back in the day" once said to me, "the problem with Mike is he always took himself so damn seriously."  Which to me was a pretty illuminating statement.
1982  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: October 02, 2007, 09:39:42 AM
I just got confirmation from Billy Hinsche that it was indeed him (Billy) singing the falsetto on SG live.



Neat!  Is that worth a mention, then?  It is a prominent part...
1983  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Won't You Tell Me, Where Is She? on: October 01, 2007, 02:19:12 PM
Which makes me wonder....is there another band in Rock and Roll that has 2 members (Brian and Al) who are not related and yet sound so much the same ,on lead vocals no less , to the point that experts who have listened countless times still have debates over it?

It's funny, I had an argument with a guy on wikipedia about this very thing.  He was saying that anybody that was familiar with the group could tell their voices apart, then proceeded to give me an example where he got them confused himself.
1984  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike, Al and Bruce on: October 01, 2007, 02:17:02 PM
I didn't find this out until recently (and was surprised), but I think "Lady Lynda" did make the top 40 in America on the A/C chart, even though it didn't chart on the pop chart.

Al's songwriting has tended to be derivative, but you can make a good case for his commercial sense relative to the other guys in the band.  Besides "Lynda," he was responsible as producer and main driving force for two of the band's biggest post '60s hits:  "Cottonfields" in 1970 and "Come Go With Me" in 1981, and even "California Saga" made the singles charts briefly in '73.
1985  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: October 01, 2007, 02:00:21 PM
This is probably making things needlessly complicated, but I remember resorting to the live version of "Surfer Girl" when we were learning tunes for the show with Jardine because the studio version was so close and low there were some parts I couldn't romance out with certainty, and I remember at the time (I'm using the IPod to get ready for a different show, so I can't confirm my recollection) noting with surprise that the falsetto "lead" vocal (not the bridge) was nobody whose voice I was familiar with.  I assumed it was Hinsche, but does anybody know?  I had expected the voice to be Al's, but it wasn't.
1986  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Definitive Musician Credits Thread... on: September 26, 2007, 11:21:03 AM
That seems like the attitude of a lot of the BBs toward studio work, too. It doesn't seem like they cared that much about taking credit for playing on their records -- even though they did. Brian, even, never talks about his keyboard or organ playing. Dennis even hired other drummers for his solo. Despite their talents, they never seemed to take the process of studio work as something to be celebrated. They talked about the final results.
Code:

I think a lot of that has to do with a (very admirable) attitude that the playing has to be in service of the song.  I was at Earle Mankey's mastering my greatest hits album last weekend and we actually discussed this briefly; that drum-wise, Earle said both Brian's and Dennis' attitude was "all you need is the snare and the floor tom, played at the same time."  Likewise, it was said by one of them (Bruce?) in the early '70s that the BBs were unique in not being a solo-oriented band.

I had my eyes opened about Al Jardine's playing twice.  Once when I actually did a gig with him and leaned in on his amp to hear what the heck he was playing.  Even though I was bandleader for that gig I wouldn't have picked it out of the mix but when I heard his part, it was "the Beach Boys" -- just a very subtle thing that blended in with the whole.  Likewise, on the 1980 Friday special where they had only three sideman and you could actually hear Bruce, Al and Brian in the mix, I was curious to see what Al was actually playing on "Keepin' The Summer Alive" -- and when Carl soloed, you could hear that it was a rhythm part so locked in with what the clavinet was doing that it was virtually indistinguishable.  Probably not a great guitar player, but a master blender.  And since blend was what the BBs were all about vocally, it makes sense that would color their attitudes towards their instrumental work as well.
1987  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl/Dennis mini-set part of "60 songs in 1 Night" Saturday on: September 25, 2007, 05:53:17 PM
I'm cravenly reposting to my own thread to get it up on the main page again the week of the show!  So sue me.  Smiley
1988  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 24, 2007, 06:51:36 PM
Wasn't the line from H&V "In the cantina margarits keep the spirits high. There I watched he she swung around and wound in the warmth her body fanned the flame of the dance" split between Brian and Mike? I know there 2 sentences, but the melodic lines goes strait through without a break.

Maybe therein lies the difference?  Huh

Well, yeah, but that's a lead vocal part, where you're selecting the guy to do one line because you like the timbre of his voice for it (the part Mike sings dips into a lower register where, in '67, he killed).  If you're doing a background vocal (e.g. not featured) part, switching a guy on the top note in the middle of a session is just a pain in the neck to achieve not that great a difference in the overall sound (in fact, you don't WANT a difference in the sound because it's basically the same part).  I can't imagine doing it unless (a) Brian took off or (b) they were different parts done at different times, but it sounds to me like it's all one two-vocal part on one track.
1989  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boy factions on: September 24, 2007, 04:43:41 PM
I've heard it expressed by some in the know that Dennis not being allowed to do the solo tour in '77 is what started his spiral (in addition to some of what Stebbins has posted).  It's probably more complicated than that, but it's significant that when Brian and Dennis advanced to a certain point, the band as corporate entity made life extremely hard for them to keep moving in that creative direction, basically shutting them down...and in both cases (and you could argue Carl as well to a lesser degree), that's when their lives took a hard left turn for the worse.
1990  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Definitive Musician Credits Thread... on: September 24, 2007, 04:38:08 PM
I think it's a great idea. Some of the info may be hard to find, but I think clarifying as much as we can (plus laying to rest that dull canard about the band "never" playing on their records) would be useful, and a great companion to the vocal credits thread.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. Of course if their is several opinions on who played a certain instrument on a certain track then we could either put "drums - Dennis Wilson or Hal Blaine" or just leave it blank. I know it would be a lot of work and unlike the vocal credits thread you can't just tell by listening as to who is playing an instrument

Unless, of course, you can tell by listening to the session tapes...which you sometimes can.  Unfortunately session tapes don't circulate for EVERY track...is case anyone is unaware, I've actually started with two of their best albums, which fortunately, plenty of session tapes & AFM sheets do circulate...
www.beachboysarchives.com



Never mind, C-man is already here (note to myself: read then post)!  I wholeheartedly concur that C-Man is "the man" on this topic.
1991  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Definitive Musician Credits Thread... on: September 24, 2007, 04:37:10 PM
Does anyone else think it would be a good idea (considering their is a "definitive vocal credits thread") that we start up a "The Definitive Musician Credits Thread..." because I get frustrated when I can't figure out who played what and I don't have access or can't find who exactly it was that played drums or bass or whatever on a particular track. So what does everybody think?

This is definitely moving into territory to where angels fear to tread...

Can anyone drag C-Man over here?  His research and listening on sessions is first-rate...he was the first one back in the AOL board days to reveal, for instance, Al J. was the bass player on a lot of BBs hits, which was controversial at the time (I remember Earle Mankey, when I told him this, could scarcely believe it).  A lot of the information he posted at that time I've never seen duplicated elsewhere, even on his webpage.  I know I have some of it saved somewhere, but he'd be a real asset to this thread.
1992  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 24, 2007, 04:34:23 PM
I am in the same boat as Adam. The first half of that line sounds like Brian, but the phrasing on "we'll get your steamboat rolling" sounds like Carl. It wouldn't be unusual for them to split a vocal line like that. Maybe it is both of them.

I think it would be unusual to split a line on what sounds like two parts throughout a continuous vocal track.  You could construct a scenario where Brian starts it and decides he wants to go home and Carl picks it up mid-session, I suppose.
1993  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 21, 2007, 06:04:03 PM
I have been knocked for saying this before but I honestly think Steamboat has Brian singing "We'll Get Your Stemboat Rollin" with Dennis. The high part sounds more like him then Carl, and even if he did little at the sessions he could have spent five minutes doing a quick overdub. Am I the only one that hears him?  As far Dennis the way the word Rollin is pronounced is his unique phrasing.

OK now I finally had to go listen to the darn song, damn it all...

I can't believe they were going to open the album with this.  Ballsy, I'll say that.

Alright:
Yeah, I agree.  Dennis on the "Fulton" line on the prominent bottom vocal.  I guess the reason I question this as a lead vocal (particularly since Carl got washed out for co-lead on "Celebrate") is Carl's lead continues through this section, so to me it's a background vocal part, not a lead.

As for Brian on this part...you mean the high part in the left channel over Dennis', right?  I get why you'd say that, it does have a kind of a Brian-like resonance.  But the "worry Mr. Fulton" sounds like Carl's inflection to me, and there's a few places towards the end that sound the same way.  Plus since the track sounds like two people overdubbing themselves to death, and that's a two part harmony, it makes more sense that it's Carl and Dennis and not Dennis and Brian with Carl sitting it out.

So, yeah, I agree it could be Brian, but it sounds more like Carl to me.
1994  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 20, 2007, 01:44:32 PM
Playing it back in my head, I'd buy Dennis as one of the "Fulton" voices (with Carl?), particularly if Stebbins says so.  I should go back and listen but my IPod shuffle is on a roll right now and honestly, I've never cared for "Steamboat" very much!  Boyd has told me that this and "Only With You" had a lot of cool stuff buried in the mixdown.  I'll take his word for it.

Y'know, it's interesting how much the BBs were starting down a country-rock road with Ricky and Blondie (and Al Jardine, secondarily) in '72-'73.  It's even more pronounced in some of the outtakes I've gotten to hear from around that time.  It was a nice fit, I think.
1995  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Intelligent songwriting on: September 20, 2007, 11:12:08 AM
There was a post about You need a mess of help to stand alone. That song is clearly underestimated. It's always been one of my favorite BB songs. Yes it's kinda strange but at the same time not. And I guess that's the strength of Brian and the BB. Just listen to the ending of the song - how many different melodies can you find? The same with This whole world? Could someone please tell me what key that song is in?
Cheers
Bengt Stenstrom

I don't have a piano in front of me but I remember jamming on it with Darian years ago and IIRC it's in G.  Anyone else?
1996  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: who played violin on \ on: September 20, 2007, 11:07:54 AM
Quote
The Beach Boys undervalued Fataar...

Huh  How so?  They made him a member of the band.  They put his songs on the albums and in the concert set list - prominently so.  He even produced - and they already had a name producer. 

If he was undervalued, I'd say it was the fans that undervalued Fataar.

Yeah. How many times I've read the fans bashing "Hold on Dear Brother", "Here She Comes", "Leaving This Town" and "We Got Love" aka "the Flame tracks". Often lamenting that those tracks took valuable album space that could be used for a track written by a Wilson

I think the put downs of those songs were off base (sorry Andrew). I love the Flame 1970 LP and these Beach Boys-Flame tracks are also well above average. I think most stemmed from people who missed Brian not being on a huge presence on those albums.

I think what's interesting is that every one of the Beach Boys albums from SUNFLOWER up to but not including KTSA (and probably 15 BIG ONES) was bashed or at the very least criticized by critics at the time as being uneven but have grown in stature as years have passed.  Certainly true of CATP, LIGHT ALBUM, SUR'FS UP and HOLLAND.  CATP most of all.  A lot has to do with the gap between peoples' expectations and what they get.
1997  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 20, 2007, 11:04:23 AM
I always thought Funky Pretty was just Carl and Blondie interchanging with a bit of Mike thrown in.

The tag of that song is so fodaing epic, it's ridiculous. It's possibly one of my top 5 favorite Beach Boys songs of all time.

I can't speak to the Ricky part -- honestly I've never been really able to distinguish his and Blondie's voices, though I haven't really paid close attention to be truthful -- but IIRC Al has a few lines in there, "cosmically conscious" being one.

I'm also being lazy about "Steamboat" in not going back and listening to it but I concur with AGD -- I think Dennis is the bass vocal but it's possible it's someone else doing a Dennis imitation.  My understanding is that Dennis bailed on the HOLLAND sessions early, leaving Carl and others to finish his tracks.  Hence the Carl lead on "Only With You" which, much as I love Carl's voice, is a bland track that would have benefited from Dennis' rougher edge.  Just my opinion.

[Posted before I saw all the other posts, so this is redundant.  -- Adam]
1998  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smiley Smile Reference Threads / Re: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread... on: September 19, 2007, 02:44:24 PM
Dennis sings lead on part of "Steamboat"?  Where? 

Jack Rieley should get a mention for the fairly tale narration.
1999  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boy factions on: September 18, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
Dennis wasn't in Holland very long...he took off and spent the duration on some island or other (Ibiza?  My European geography is non-existent).  That's why no vocal on "Only With You."
2000  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Brian Pics 72-74 on: September 18, 2007, 03:47:56 PM
Well, regardless of whether he's on those songs or not, it's pretty well established that (a) he had most of his normal voice through 1974 but that (b) it had started to deteriorate somewhat in the late '60s, although probably not to a huge degree.
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