I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

Magic Transistor Radio: You must be selectively ignoring the posts by Dennis Wilson's official biographer in this thread, who I think ranks as someone who would know what's going on behind the scenes. Or are you going to argue with him, and tell him that he's pushing false rumors?

Because that's basically what you're doing.

As has been stated by people who would know: just because there's examples of Mike greenlighting Dennis content in the past, that doesn't by definition mean that he isn't blocking it this time around.

I assume you are speaking of Jon Stebbins? I respect him. I haven't seen his posts on this topic. I will look for them.

[FREE FEEL FLOWS!]

Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

[FREE FEEL FLOWS!]

Just my own feeling but wouldn’t leaking the track set publicly be a breach of confidentiality and possibly endanger the set further and burn bridges in the process?

I have the same feeling.
I still think the best solution is to convince these guys (especially that person who wants to remove Dennis songs from the set) to clear their minds, and try to push hard for this material to be released, even talking about more sales/more money (and that’s somebody motivation for all he does) it would generate if these songs are gonna be included.
And if it’s not enough, so maybe it’s better to cancel the damm thing and release it digitally.
Maybe it’s better than release a set without Dennis tracks only to satisfy some jealousy attitudes/wishes/demanding of this person.

Respectfully disagree. The media will control this and drive the band's response once that original track list is out in public view. The only move that could save face would be to release it as originally conceived, otherwise the band sinks further into the morass of the "fractured" meme that is now around their neck. Without a release of this material, they would be subject to a public humiliation.

The "mob wife" approach is to just do nothing and wait for the day when we can "love" again, except that if you watch THE SOPRANOS you see that it's just a variant of the circular firing squad.

We don't need any more mob wives, we need a Daniel Ellsberg.

Now, of course, there's nothing to prevent the group from compromising and removing Dennis' material, but they will take a hit if they do so, particularly when it's public knowledge that they decided to remove it for no good reason except to placate a certain someone AGAIN.

If I were working with Brian and Al and Carl's estate I'd be on the phone RIGHT NOW saying that you need to figure out a way to release this to stop the bleeding that's coming your way through no real fault of your own, but because the Lovester is still out of control. Releasing FEEL FLOWS is now in a position to help stop the bleeding.

FREE FEEL FLOWS!

Maybe I've missed something, but how do you know it's Mike that is causing all of this? It could be Brian that don't want the material released. Or Al, or Carls estate. Or.. Bruce?
Point is, we don't actually know.

Or have I missed something?

I have tried to reason with them. They have made up their minds that anything bad that happens is Mike's fault. Ignoring the releases of the Smile Sessions, Made In California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Friends Sessions and 20/20 sessions. Some heavy with Dennis songs. Which all of a sudden, the Feel Flows box is on hold because of Mike's objections to Dennis songs? The same Mike that the song Forever is normal song in his setlist? But these fans have made up their minds and believe that many false rumors and claims are historical facts.

I have combined Surfer Girl with Little Deuce Coup and Shut Down vol 2 with All Summer Long. But haven't done this yet, so here goes:

1. Little Deuce Coupe               8. Fun, Fun, Fun
2. Shut Down                             9. Don't Worry Baby
3. Be True to Your School     10. The Warmth of the Sun
4. Cherry Cherry Coupe         11. Pom Pom Play Girl
5. Spirit of America                12. Keep an Eye On Summer
6. Our Car Club                       13. Shut Down part 2
7. Custom Machine               14. Why Do Fools Fall In Love

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-10-18/trump-fundraiser-california?fbclid=IwAR1EjEbVZYlnT3C10ZLUYk8ZjOabDlq1GiR10C5SG9p7Vp_KzPzdN-Rc8Hg

Screw Mike for dragging down the brand name once again.

There's no way that all the members of the band are in support of this. Mike just does this because he can, once again.

Huge, huge shocker with a massive narcissist loving another massive narcissist. What a surprise. Like flies on sh*t.

I am not a Trump supporter,  but what I do support is freedom of Speech. Celebrities use their platform all the time to make political statements. It is their right. Personally, if I love the art they produce, I could care less what politics or religion (TM) they push. Unless it's that Satanic death metal stuff. Too far for me. Lol!

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn’t want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought “I’ll start doing rare stuff, too.”

I do agree that Brian was doing more deep cuts first. That is true. The first time I saw Brian live was during the first Pet Sounds tour. A couple years earlier I saw Mike and Bruce for the first time and the least popular songs they did were Do It Again, Disney Girls and Darlin. But that was true when Carl was still around.

Ever experience deja vu???

I keep having issues with double post glitches on here

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I wish I could have been at a show with the Zombies! Unfortunately, I don't think they came to Dallas with them. I have seen Brian's groups about 5 times. Saw Mike's band once back in 99 or 2000.

The “other” board is denying Mike said “don’t f*** with the formula” for crying out loud....

I haven't been on another Beach Boys board. Lol! I was just giving an example of something that has become historical fact in many people's minds when it may not be. It may be Mike that is blocking the release of the Feel Flows box. I would state that Mike was more involved in Sunflower/Surfs Up than he was Friends. But we did get the Wake the World sessions. That made less financial sense than a Sunflower/Surfs Up sessions. Isn't Mike business minded and thus more likely to sign off on this than the 1968 sessions? Hopefully there is just a hold up/discussion on what material will be on it. I would like to see Sweet and Bitter and My Solution on there. If there is more unreleased Dennis material that is unreleased, I would love to have that too. But if they are trying to cut 10 or 15 tracks, I wouldn't mind cutting songs we already have such as Lady, Wouldn't it be Nice to Live Again, Sounds of Free, etc.

The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.

So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

I can't do anything to help you if you're going to be this ignorant of the band's history.

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.

I know all about the bands history! I would like to point out that there is a difference between what Mike has said, and what Mike's critics have exaggerated what he has said. I know that Mike denies ever saying 'Don't F with the formula'. So rather than tell me that we know Mike is behind Feel Flows box not coming out because we have preconceived bias that it has to be him. Please send me a link to prove that Mike has said any such thing, or evem those close to Mike. I will not buy into hypatheticals or rumors. I know that I haven't read everything on this topic, so maybe I missed it.

The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.

So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

I can't do anything to help you if you're going to be this ignorant of the band's history.

There are a THOUSAND political and personal issues within the band when it comes to this period of the band's history and their music. For that matter, those politics and the aforementioned "circular firing squad" are potentially *always* at play, even when it's about putting out a greatest hits compilation.

If you think the *only* issue or feeling Mike (or other members) would have about that era of material is simply that the band "was promoted poorly", then I would suggest more research and reading. No, of course it's not as simple as so-and-so just *hates* all of the material from a given era (well, that's true in some cases, but not in the case of 67-73 material). But there are a myriad of personal and business machinations involved, far beyond "well, I love the material, it's just a shame it wasn't promoted better!"

Anybody that has studied this and and its history knows the band's attitude towards archival projects, and should understand how lucky we are that there is an archival team pushing for this stuff behind the scenes, because these "copyright extension" sets being signed off on is in NO WAY evidence of an active championing of the material by some if not most members, and certainly is in no way evidence of what might happen with subsequent sets.

I know all about the bands history! I would like to point out that there is a difference between what Mike has said, and what Mike's critics have exaggerated what he has said. I know that Mike denies ever saying 'Don't F with the formula'. So rather than tell me that we know Mike is behind Feel Flows box not coming out because we have preconceived bias that it has to be him. Please send me a link to prove that Mike has said any such thing, or evem those close to Mike. I will not buy into hypatheticals or rumors. I know that I haven't read everything on this topic, so maybe I missed it.

The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

What's getting old is that *one* story of Mike participating in the "Made in California" set being used as evidence that he would never have an issue with Dennis or Dennis material, and as evidence that he always and would always be enthusiastic about archival releases, and I guess, that a MILLION other internal issues/politics wouldn't supersede any of that.

This ignores 60 years of band history and politics, including interviews *with* Mike where he discusses his affinity/enthusiasm, or lack thereof, concerning archival releases, album reissues, and really studio recording in general.

So you are just going to ignore all the things that have come out, like Sunshine Tomorrow and Wake the World? Also, Mike has stated many times that he likes the music from 67-73. His main beef was that they were poorly promoted. Especially by Capital in 68-69. He also helped promote the Smile Sessions 9 years ago.

The accusations that Mike is jealous of Dennis music doesn't make any sense to me. Just a few years ago, the Made in California box set came out which was heavy with unreleased Dennis Wilson songs! The anti Mike rhetoric is getting old. Reminds me of the rumors that Mike fired Brian during the 50th anniversary. Proven to be untrue. However, it is true that Mike was disappointed that he was not allowed to work one on one with Brian. And Brian has stated in an interview that he does not like Mike at all. Mike believes that the people around Brian is what kept him from working alone with Brian. But I believe that Brian requested that his people keep Mike from working with him. Sad situation. Personally, I think the worst part of TWGMTR was the producer, Joe Thomas.

Probably my favorite era of the Beach Boys are the years Mr. Desper was with them. It's such a fascinating period for them. I think he contributed a whole lot to their sound. I consider him kind of an extended member of the Beach Boys himself, honestly. In what I've seen from him in documentaries (BW Songwriter) and his posts on here over the years, he seems so incredibly nice and humble, considering his immense contributions to the band.

I was devastated to find that his site, his breakdown videos, his Recording the Beach Boys books, were all taken down. I'm not sure the specifics of what happened but I'm incredibly disappointed. I understand and respect Stephen's decision, but I'm sure hoping to see them again at some point down the road. They were awesome, as are the posts here where he very generously shares all these great pieces of info.

From what I remember, he was a huge part of what makes Sunflower sound so incredible, with Stephen and the Boys doing some quite innovative things with that. Sunflower is probably my favorite sounding BB record. Plus all my fav BB songs were recorded during this time. I think songs like Time to Get Alone and that whole later 60s to early 70s period should get more recognition from mainstream audiences rather than just God Only Knows, etc.

I remember in that one 1976 interview with Brian where he's going over SMiLE and some other neat topics, Stephen is brought up and Brian said that he considered him the co-producer of their records then. I thought that was nice, but I'm not too knowledgeable about what the difference exactly is. I guess in my head, the audio engineer vs producer in music seems similar to the cinematographer vs the director in film. Not sure if that's an accurate comparison.

My guess is that he had to take his site down for legal reasons. Which is sad given that he used them for education purposes, not to mention helped record them!

As for producer/engineer roles, I assume the definition is loose. Nick Venet was the 'producer' for Safari and USA, but probably just said, take 1.....one more time......and cut. Brian arranged and directed the musicians in the studio. Just like some studio musicians only play what is on paper. While the wrecking crew helped create the sound as well. Desper was an engineer that helped create sounds. Such as the hundred beats per second at the beginning of Do It Again. I don't think any other band created that kind of sound in 1968!

As far as I can tell, and I am no expert, Stephen Desper is an engineering genius! According to Wikipedia, he didn't do much in pop music outside the Beach Boys or inventing the Spacializer. Certainly he was offered jobs with other bands/record labels? If not, he was the Beach Boy' best kept secret!

I know Stephen comes on here from time to time. So he can answer, or anyone else that has some insight of what he did after Surfs Up, other than American Spring and a few more  Beach Boys albums he engineered?

As far as I can tell, and I am no expert, Stephen Desper is an engineering genius! According to Wikipedia, he didn't do much in pop music outside the Beach Boys or inventing the Spacializer. Certainly he was offered jobs with other bands/record labels? If not, he was the Beach Boy' best kept secret!

I know Stephen comes on here from time to time. So he can answer, or anyone else that has some insight of what he did after Surfs Up, other than American Spring and a few more  Beach Boys albums he engineered?

Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?

Stupid double post and can't figure out how to delete this second one!

I was just listening to this episode and thought it was interesting when Mark Dillon's track list has Good Vibrations at the end of side A, and Surfs Up at the end of side B. When I posted Beach Boys alternate albums on my YouTube channel called Magic Transistor Radio, I had done the same thing! So at least one other Beach Boys fan agrees!

I was just listening to this episode and thought it was interesting when Mark Dillon's track list has Good Vibrations at the end of side A, and Surfs Up at the end of side B. When I posted Beach Boys alternate albums on my YouTube channel called Magic Transistor Radio, I had done the same thing! So at least one other Beach Boys fan agrees!

Thumbs up! Makes me want to listen to the album now - skipped ahead and listened to Leaves of Grass - very beautiful, reminds me of Simon and Garfunkel. First time I've heard one of your reviews - love the My Solution calculation sounds

Thank you very much! Glad you liked my formula machine! Lol! You may want to find 2 playlists on my channel. One is Beach Boys album reviews. I have reviewed them all! The other is Beach Boys Related album reviews. Includes this one, plus Van Dykes Song Cycle, The Moon Without Earth and Sagittarius. Soon to come are reviews of the Flame, American Spring, Western Justice and BB solo projects. If you like modern indie bands or classic psychedelic/progressive,  check out another playlist called Favorite album reviews. 😁

Yep- Great album.  Only thing I would change is the cover.  I get the vibe they were going for, but I think they could have done better.

There is another photo that would have been similar but better. They are sitting in a straight row holding flowers. Mike is in the middle in his white robe.

I accidentally double posted and can't figure out how to delete the other one. I closed the other one so we can converse here.