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644759 Posts in 25781 Topics by 3672 Members - Latest Member: MikeLover41 March 24, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 14, 2019, 11:52:54 AM
I'll buy the book but only if i get to punch Rocky

If Rocky tries to give drugs to Brian, I will punch him myself.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: No Endless Summer on: March 14, 2019, 09:50:40 AM
I haven't had a chance to read all these yet, but looking forward to it. I think the band would have broken up in the mid 70s. Though, if more music was made, it would have continued to be progressive.  I think Dennis would have gone solo fully, and probably become a huge pop star to the level of Joe Cocker. Unfortunately,  it may not have changed his downfall. Hopefully,  Brian still gets help despite the 'golden goose' not being a motive. They probably would never have hired Landy since they wouldn't have that kind of money. The Stan and Rocky saga would probably have still occurred.  Maybe without the pressures of touring, he would not have fallen back into drugs again in the late 70s? Carl probably would have pursued a solo career sooner. Mike has mentioned he wanted to become a full time TM teacher as early as 1970, so he probably would have done that. Al would likely be relaxing at his ranch. Brian may have eventually gone solo with Andy Paley, but healthier and without Landy. I think at some point though, there would have been a reunion a kin to the 2012 reunion with Brian as the main songwriter. If it were soon enough to include Carl, that would be awesome. The reputation would be much more respectable since they would have ended with Holland or In Concert, rather than many sub par albums and songs to follow.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My thoughts on Rock Pamplins Endless Wave on: March 13, 2019, 07:32:43 AM
According to the book the two of them had an affair.*  Rocky also made some disgusting comments about her in it. Of course there are several things in the book that are questionable , so who knows?

*Confirmed elsewhere, though

I will say that in Endless Wave, Rocky portrays a flirtatious relationship between he and Marilyn. I am only in chapter 8, so I don't know if he mentions the affair in this book or not.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My thoughts on Rock Pamplins Endless Wave on: March 12, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Asked Marilyn about it?  Wouldn't that be more than a little bit awkward.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing? I haven't finished the book yet. So far, Marilyn comes across as supportive of Rocky in the book. Maybe things change later.

From what I remember from the Heroes and Villains book, Marilyn did not describe Rocky in a positive light at all and said that the stories he shared in the book were all BS..

Heroes and Villains was written long before this book.  But I guess there are stories about him in Heroes and Villains?
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My thoughts on Rock Pamplins Endless Wave on: March 12, 2019, 03:27:51 PM
Asked Marilyn about it?  Wouldn't that be more than a little bit awkward.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing? I haven't finished the book yet. So far, Marilyn comes across as supportive of Rocky in the book. Maybe things change later.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My thoughts on Rock Pamplins Endless Wave on: March 12, 2019, 10:11:40 AM
This was a question, I was hoping would be answered. Many have accused Rocky to make up stuff and that his book is not trustworthy. Do we know for certain this is the case? I don't think I would include getting years or certain timelines wrong. Every Beach Boys has misremembered certain details of things. I'm guessing his quotes of conversations were more a paraphrase unless he has a photographic memory or kept a journal at the time. But I am more concerned with the general events. Personally,  I don't see any contradictions with The Real Beach Boy by Jon Stebbins or any other writings from that era.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 08, 2019, 02:59:46 PM
While never condoning violence, you have to put the Ďpunchí into context. Here you had a bunch of males a long way from home for an extended period. Friendships are made and there are falling outs. They are traveling, working hard and playing hard with little sleep. Some large egos, drugs and alcohol. Itís a recipe for trouble and Iím surprised it never happened more than we know.

Exactly! These Dennis and Carl aren't women! They are men. I bet if Dennis punched Mike or Rocky, these same people would be applauding! Not that I would support that either.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 08, 2019, 02:56:53 PM
We should keep in mind , the years that Rocky is covering were the lowest point for Carl. So the fact that he didn't give high praise to Carl, may have been his personal experience.  Dennis was doing well, according to Jon Stebbins from 74-76 before he began to decline again. 76 was when Rocky was hired. So between 77-79, I would have to call Mike the stabilizing force at the time. Which is why Al sided with him. No doubt Carl was talented and 99% of the time a sweet guy. Not that I condone punching people,  but sometimes the best of us deserve to be punched. Phil Spector,  John Phillips,  Michael Jackson,  Kanye West, all very talented. But at times deserved to be punched.  Again,  not supporting the punching, just saying....

Bruce was brought back in for the LA LP because everyone else was incapable of getting the production together. EVERYONE, including Mike, who was off doing his solo stuff. The band had to raid material from Dennis' BAMBU project to get enough songs for the LP. Nobody was a stabilizing force at that time. After all this went down, Carl cleaned up and left the band for more than a year in the early 80s.

The book is a lame attempt to cash in on a very painful time for just about everyone in the BBs. You're better off sticking with Stephen Gaines, who is at least even-handed in his depiction of the drift and misdirection that plagued the band in their "CBS years."

Your list of "acceptable punchees" is grotesquely hilarious in that you've lumped Carl Wilson in with a murderer, two child molesters and a psychopath. Maybe Jonah and Justyn should sue YOU.

That's why in my initial post, I was curious if others like Marilyn,  Stephen, Stan, etc remember things the same. I don't claim to know the truth. I do feel like he is being fair in the context of the time he was working in. He hasn't said all good about Mike or all bad about Carl and Dennis.  In fact, other than drugs, his opinions on the guys are about the same. When I said Mike held the band together,  perhaps I meant that he, along with Al, were the most dependable during the period Rocky worked with them. Only if you are anti Mike would you think he is one sided. This has nothing to do with talent. It was a guys experience working with Brian and his relationship with the other guys. He hasn't really given much opinion on the guys individual talents except for Brian as a genius.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 08, 2019, 06:30:47 AM
Well I'm a Drummer in a BBs Tribute Band, maybe I should be worried that I am on the Rocky list for punching Ummmmm don't think so  LOL

I'm sure you would be fine as long as you aren't trying to give Brian drugs. 😁
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 07, 2019, 09:43:32 PM
We should keep in mind , the years that Rocky is covering were the lowest point for Carl. So the fact that he didn't give high praise to Carl, may have been his personal experience.  Dennis was doing well, according to Jon Stebbins from 74-76 before he began to decline again. 76 was when Rocky was hired. So between 77-79, I would have to call Mike the stabilizing force at the time. Which is why Al sided with him. No doubt Carl was talented and 99% of the time a sweet guy. Not that I condone punching people,  but sometimes the best of us deserve to be punched. Phil Spector,  John Phillips,  Michael Jackson,  Kanye West, all very talented. But at times deserved to be punched.  Again,  not supporting the punching, just saying....
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 07, 2019, 08:59:29 PM
I have a question.  Has anyone that is making accusations against this book actually read it? It doesn't seem that way? The negative things about Mike haven't vanished as some suggest. Mike was in unison with Carl and and Dennis to fire Stephen Love as the manager. Rocky talks about how Stephen wasn't a pushover manager and sent a telegram to Mike that offended Mike. Nothing that bad in the telegram, but rock stars have big egos. So yes, Rocky did say something negative about Mike. Perhaps some of the outtakes were edited due to living people not wanting certain things said about them
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / My thoughts on Rock Pamplins Endless Wave on: March 07, 2019, 08:37:50 PM
First of all, I am not here to cast judgements.  I have noticed many Beach Boys fans are convinced this book is as bad as Wouldn't It Be Nice, written with Eugene Landy. But I am always interested in hearing different perspectives. I don't see anything that is unbelievable in this book so far. Though he seems to give great details in stories that happened 40 years ago! Word for word conversations and specific gestures seems suspicious.  Either Rocky has an amazing memory,  he is paraphrasing what generally happened, or he is making stuff up. What I am curious about is if anyone has asked Marilyn about this book. If she says it's true. Brian may not be the best one to ask.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Definitive Smiley Smile Message Board's Song & Album Rankings - Results on: February 12, 2019, 07:11:19 AM
The surprise for me is All I Wanna Do making the top ten - a deep cut well known to Beach Boy fanatics but not usuallly ranked up with the likes of God Only Knows and Good Vibrations.  This Whole World is not unexpected.

Iím surprised there hasnít been more responses to the poll.  How many members does the board have?  This should be something everyone, even just lurkers and readers who usually donít post, could participate in.

It would be better if it was restricted to album tracks. As much as I'd hate to deny members their more esotoric choices, I think a narrower focus would lead to clearer results. Not that the top ten here looks bad, I realise I'm in the small minority of people that don't enjoy Surf's Up much until the coda.

I'm confused. What songs listed are not album tracks? Every song listed was on an album! Do you mean singles? That would be boring. Might as well go to a casual fans board.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 10, 2019, 08:16:46 AM
That's a cool video. I kind of wonder if this continued when the Beach Boys went back to roots with Wild Honey in late 67. The Beatles followed with the white album.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Unsolved Mysteries: Dennis Wilson on: February 05, 2019, 05:49:33 AM
It's always interesting to discover something new. After all these years of watching documentaries and reading all the books, even the ones on Dennis,  I was never aware of Dennis having nervous breakdowns. Maybe I had read it and forgot about it. 
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Unsolved Mysteries: Dennis Wilson on: February 04, 2019, 11:36:10 AM
I recently saw this on YouTube. It was interesting, but certain things I never new about before. I know they got some facts wrong. They claimed Dennis came up with the name Beach Boys. Not true. But it also said Dennis had a nervous breakdown in his early 60s. Is this true? We all know Brian has had them, but never knew Dennis did. A lot of the 'mystery' surrounding his death was old news. The YouTube channel that shows this is called Mr Galikonacous. Not sure I spelled the last name right.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My '74 outtakes album on: January 07, 2019, 08:40:36 AM
https://youtu.be/dNmx3TaHfCY

Here is mine! Smiley
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Did I read that Brian sold his vote to Mike in 78 or 79? on: December 17, 2018, 07:51:45 AM
Seems I read this somewhere.  I think it was Stebbins book 'The Real Beach Boy'. I should dust off the book and see if I can find it. But if he did, we know he eventually got his vote back. Or perhaps it was as simple as differing to Mike on all votes at the time.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Any chance of a Stack o Tracks remix to come out?   LOL
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Al in Oakland on: October 10, 2018, 06:40:48 PM
Can someone pick me up? I live in Dallas!   LOL
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis singing on: October 10, 2018, 06:37:17 PM
Yes! Listen to songs like Slip On Through and California Slide when he still had his original voice.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Definitive Smiley Smile Message Board's Song & Album Rankings - Results on: October 10, 2018, 06:35:22 PM
My biggest surprise is that Holland did not make top 10 albums. And no Dennis songs could crack the top 10? I guess Brian is just that much better than anyone else.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 28, 2018, 05:50:45 AM
I pride myself in being a truth seeker. Something that I realize is that the truth is not always what I want it to be. If you can't tell by my profile name, I love the Jack Rieley era! I think that that along with 65-67, were the artistic heights of the bands career, and 68-70 as well as Love You were not far behind. However, I recall a quote by Carl criticizing Jack Rieley or someone for not listening to all sides. While Carl leaned toward the artistic side, he also respected all voices in the group when he was a leader. He may have faught for Mike and Al's songs to be included on Surfs Up-Holland. Perhaps that had something to do with his fight with Dennis. 

As for the audience shouting for the hits during the newer songs, I will say that I wasn't born until 1977. I have just read things. But my guess is that increased in 1974 after Jack Rieley left and Endless Summer came out. When it went platinum,  it is obvious to me that the majority of fans wanted the hits. Personally,  I believe it was the worst thing to happen to them artistically. They were building something great. Holland showed hints of where they might go next. I feel that Pacific Ocean Blue was the next step.

Also, as a truth seeker,  I try to understand all people's perspective. Personally,  I hate the 80s and 90s Beach Boys for the most part. But let's try and look at this objectively here. In the late 70s, all 3 Wilson brothers were in a bad place. None of them were capable of leading the band at that point. I'm sure Mike worried about the future of the band. I didn't see him fighting for power in 1973 for example. He actually says good things about that era to this very day! He says he liked Blondie, Ricky and Jack Rieley.  He always has good things to say about Carl. He seemed to support Brian's leadership for a time in the mid 70s, but probably realized that Brian was slipping away again. Al voted with Mike because he saw the same thing
 Brian became less interested and sold his vote to Mike. Perhaps I wish he sold it to Carl, but he was also in a bad place at the time. Carl cleaned up and decided to do his own thing. When he returned, he was more interested in being a moderator than a leader. Think about it this way, there were wives and children depending on them. Carl was probably more concerned with the business side than artistic side at this point.

To me, it seems the Beach Boys have been cursed to being a fun in the sun oldies act. I hate this fact, but think about it. Brian was working on Smile and had a nervous breakdown. The following albums were great, but not commercially accessible. In 74 after Holland, Endless Summer came out and went Platinum. They were fighting their own fans at that point! As Carl said in the 1980 tv interview, they fought their old image for years, but realized that's what the fans wanted.

I don't agree with Mike on several things,  but I also don't think he is pure evil, or as egotistical as some might state. He has a sense of humor that some take too seriously I think. I get the sense that his 'scars' was a metaphor. I am sure that he believed that if he didn't take over the Beach Boys in 78-79, they would have collapsed.  And he is probably right! While people blame Mike for the cheesiness of that period,  I must point out that many 60s bands were cheesy in the 80s. As were many 80s bands! Lol! I think Al was embarrassed about the direction they were going and hoped Carl would come back and save it. But I think Carl was more interested in holding things together at that point. He may have
 backed up Mike as the leader, but also faught to keep Al around. Bruce probably just made a business decision to be Mike's biggest supporter in 1998 to keep his job.



What stands out is how both Endless Summer and Kokomo, the two items which brought the band their most commercial success in the 70's and the 80's respectively, were more or less flukes that connected at that specific time to wider audiences due as much to what was surrounding their releases in pop culture and good old fashioned timing. ES was Capitol deciding to mine the back catalog for "Greatest Hits vol. 3" and releasing it when the country was hungry for nostalgia, and Kokomo was placed on a soundtrack of a blockbuster Tom Cruise fluff film. Neither could have been planned out any more than the Beatles hitting American audiences not much more than a month after the JFK assassination and subsequent national shock and mourning period which left a void in the teen generation which the Beatles happened to be there to fill.

Again, consider what Dennis said in '76 about the band's touring and live shows being as much of a catalyst for their revival as the Endless Summer fluke.

What also stands out is the band's history in the 70's and beyond. I know some will refute anything that Jack Rieley said, but consider if his account of Mike declaring "I am the Beach Boys!" during an angry exchange was exactly what happened. There is the dynamic of a band member who wanted desperately to be thought of as the leader of this band entering the mix. What you'll see is several people brought in to manage or work behind the scenes in management or financial roles eventually being accused of some manner of wrongdoing or malfeasance, and being unceremoniously dumped or simply choosing to leave. When this included Mike's own brother, you see how bizarre it all must have been.

Then fast forward to when Al Jardine got fired from the band - led by Mike - it's even more surreal yet it falls into line with what appeared to be a decades-old power grab. I think Carl simply checked out after a certain point. Dennis definitely did. Brian did years earlier. The notions of a normal working band just came and went in cycles, as did the notion of keeping a manager of any kind without eventually accusing them of wrongdoing.

Look for the common threads in all of the history and they will become visible.

Mike has been accused of saying things he has denied saying,  such as "don't f$%k with the formula'. So I am not convinced that he said that he is the Beach Boys. Maybe he did. I know he said in the Endless Harmony documentary that his positivity is why the band meant so much to so many people vs Brian's melancholy.  So it isn't far fetched. I agree that the Beach Boys had been building something great from 69-73 that was over shadowed by their past. I am curious if there was no Endless Summer if they would have continued to progress or if things were falling apart politically in the band as Rieley hints at. Ricky and Blondie have stated that they didn't see any of that while they were there. As for Mike taking control,  I really don't think that happened until Brian sold his vote to Mike in 78 or 79?? That was a period when all 3 Wilson brothers were in a bad place. And by 1981 or 82, there were many concerts without any of the Wilsons. When Carl came back from his solo career. Dennis was at the end, Brian was under Landy and Carl seemed uninterested in fighting and just went along with it. I really think that Mike felt it was necessary at that point. I agree he was the least talented,  but had the strongest head on his shoulders at the time. I wish Carl had more pride, but he had given up control in 74. When Brian was ready to return in the 90s, even Carl voted against Brian's songs. Perhaps they were worried that he couldn't handle it. I am curious as to what Carl would think today about Brian's solo career and if he would have wanted the reunion to be permanent.  Wouldn't that be cool if That Lucky Old Sun was the same, but with Beach Boys singing on it? Or Reimagines Gershwin? Who knows? Or would they have never happened? Or if Dennis survived in the 80s and recovered, how would that effect things? It is difficult to know, and a sad story. But I thing the albums in the 70s and 80s would have been much better,  if it weren't for the Wilson's drug addictions.  I will agree with Mike on that. I bet that he would rather have all 3 guys healthy and not have the power. I have seen him cry in interviews because of how it has effected Brian and that Dennis is no longer with us.

I'd just like to point out that some who may be described by certain others as an "impeccable source" have said matter-of-factly that Mike thinks he is the Beach Boys. The notion did not come out of thin air, and it has been talked about previously. With that in mind, such a scene as Rieley described Mike himself saying essentially the same thing back in '72 or so becomes more plausible, and the possibility that what Jack reported is essentially what happened becomes more believable when put into context.

I'm curious to ask, and granted I may just be overlooking something I've read as well, what is the source of info that said Brian "sold" his vote to Mike? To the best of my memory, the only BRI member whose vote was sold was Dennis, done after the fact to pay off debts (IIRC). If Brian did in fact sell his BRI member vote to Mike at some point, he obviously bought it back because the current BRI votes are Brian, Al, Mike, and Carl's sons...and that has been the setup for several decades.

I can't recall exactly where I read that Brian sold or gave his vote to Mike. I think it was in John Stebbins book, The Real Beach Boy.  But I will have to find it. My memory was that it was around 78.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 26, 2018, 06:41:11 AM


Don't let those fake Mike Love tears pull you in. He's laughing all the way to the bank thanks to his talented cousins.



 I suppose anyone that thinks Mike is pure evil won't believe there is a genuine bone in his body. How can either of us know what's in his heart? You might say his actions,  but I understand why he did it. If he didn't,  I bet the Beach Boys would have broken up in 78. Which might not have been a bad thing.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 25, 2018, 07:31:12 PM
I pride myself in being a truth seeker. Something that I realize is that the truth is not always what I want it to be. If you can't tell by my profile name, I love the Jack Rieley era! I think that that along with 65-67, were the artistic heights of the bands career, and 68-70 as well as Love You were not far behind. However, I recall a quote by Carl criticizing Jack Rieley or someone for not listening to all sides. While Carl leaned toward the artistic side, he also respected all voices in the group when he was a leader. He may have faught for Mike and Al's songs to be included on Surfs Up-Holland. Perhaps that had something to do with his fight with Dennis. 

As for the audience shouting for the hits during the newer songs, I will say that I wasn't born until 1977. I have just read things. But my guess is that increased in 1974 after Jack Rieley left and Endless Summer came out. When it went platinum,  it is obvious to me that the majority of fans wanted the hits. Personally,  I believe it was the worst thing to happen to them artistically. They were building something great. Holland showed hints of where they might go next. I feel that Pacific Ocean Blue was the next step.

Also, as a truth seeker,  I try to understand all people's perspective. Personally,  I hate the 80s and 90s Beach Boys for the most part. But let's try and look at this objectively here. In the late 70s, all 3 Wilson brothers were in a bad place. None of them were capable of leading the band at that point. I'm sure Mike worried about the future of the band. I didn't see him fighting for power in 1973 for example. He actually says good things about that era to this very day! He says he liked Blondie, Ricky and Jack Rieley.  He always has good things to say about Carl. He seemed to support Brian's leadership for a time in the mid 70s, but probably realized that Brian was slipping away again. Al voted with Mike because he saw the same thing
 Brian became less interested and sold his vote to Mike. Perhaps I wish he sold it to Carl, but he was also in a bad place at the time. Carl cleaned up and decided to do his own thing. When he returned, he was more interested in being a moderator than a leader. Think about it this way, there were wives and children depending on them. Carl was probably more concerned with the business side than artistic side at this point.

To me, it seems the Beach Boys have been cursed to being a fun in the sun oldies act. I hate this fact, but think about it. Brian was working on Smile and had a nervous breakdown. The following albums were great, but not commercially accessible. In 74 after Holland, Endless Summer came out and went Platinum. They were fighting their own fans at that point! As Carl said in the 1980 tv interview, they fought their old image for years, but realized that's what the fans wanted.

I don't agree with Mike on several things,  but I also don't think he is pure evil, or as egotistical as some might state. He has a sense of humor that some take too seriously I think. I get the sense that his 'scars' was a metaphor. I am sure that he believed that if he didn't take over the Beach Boys in 78-79, they would have collapsed.  And he is probably right! While people blame Mike for the cheesiness of that period,  I must point out that many 60s bands were cheesy in the 80s. As were many 80s bands! Lol! I think Al was embarrassed about the direction they were going and hoped Carl would come back and save it. But I think Carl was more interested in holding things together at that point. He may have
 backed up Mike as the leader, but also faught to keep Al around. Bruce probably just made a business decision to be Mike's biggest supporter in 1998 to keep his job.



What stands out is how both Endless Summer and Kokomo, the two items which brought the band their most commercial success in the 70's and the 80's respectively, were more or less flukes that connected at that specific time to wider audiences due as much to what was surrounding their releases in pop culture and good old fashioned timing. ES was Capitol deciding to mine the back catalog for "Greatest Hits vol. 3" and releasing it when the country was hungry for nostalgia, and Kokomo was placed on a soundtrack of a blockbuster Tom Cruise fluff film. Neither could have been planned out any more than the Beatles hitting American audiences not much more than a month after the JFK assassination and subsequent national shock and mourning period which left a void in the teen generation which the Beatles happened to be there to fill.

Again, consider what Dennis said in '76 about the band's touring and live shows being as much of a catalyst for their revival as the Endless Summer fluke.

What also stands out is the band's history in the 70's and beyond. I know some will refute anything that Jack Rieley said, but consider if his account of Mike declaring "I am the Beach Boys!" during an angry exchange was exactly what happened. There is the dynamic of a band member who wanted desperately to be thought of as the leader of this band entering the mix. What you'll see is several people brought in to manage or work behind the scenes in management or financial roles eventually being accused of some manner of wrongdoing or malfeasance, and being unceremoniously dumped or simply choosing to leave. When this included Mike's own brother, you see how bizarre it all must have been.

Then fast forward to when Al Jardine got fired from the band - led by Mike - it's even more surreal yet it falls into line with what appeared to be a decades-old power grab. I think Carl simply checked out after a certain point. Dennis definitely did. Brian did years earlier. The notions of a normal working band just came and went in cycles, as did the notion of keeping a manager of any kind without eventually accusing them of wrongdoing.

Look for the common threads in all of the history and they will become visible.

Mike has been accused of saying things he has denied saying,  such as "don't f$%k with the formula'. So I am not convinced that he said that he is the Beach Boys. Maybe he did. I know he said in the Endless Harmony documentary that his positivity is why the band meant so much to so many people vs Brian's melancholy.  So it isn't far fetched. I agree that the Beach Boys had been building something great from 69-73 that was over shadowed by their past. I am curious if there was no Endless Summer if they would have continued to progress or if things were falling apart politically in the band as Rieley hints at. Ricky and Blondie have stated that they didn't see any of that while they were there. As for Mike taking control,  I really don't think that happened until Brian sold his vote to Mike in 78 or 79?? That was a period when all 3 Wilson brothers were in a bad place. And by 1981 or 82, there were many concerts without any of the Wilsons. When Carl came back from his solo career. Dennis was at the end, Brian was under Landy and Carl seemed uninterested in fighting and just went along with it. I really think that Mike felt it was necessary at that point. I agree he was the least talented,  but had the strongest head on his shoulders at the time. I wish Carl had more pride, but he had given up control in 74. When Brian was ready to return in the 90s, even Carl voted against Brian's songs. Perhaps they were worried that he couldn't handle it. I am curious as to what Carl would think today about Brian's solo career and if he would have wanted the reunion to be permanent.  Wouldn't that be cool if That Lucky Old Sun was the same, but with Beach Boys singing on it? Or Reimagines Gershwin? Who knows? Or would they have never happened? Or if Dennis survived in the 80s and recovered, how would that effect things? It is difficult to know, and a sad story. But I thing the albums in the 70s and 80s would have been much better,  if it weren't for the Wilson's drug addictions.  I will agree with Mike on that. I bet that he would rather have all 3 guys healthy and not have the power. I have seen him cry in interviews because of how it has effected Brian and that Dennis is no longer with us.
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