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646448 Posts in 25863 Topics by 3685 Members - Latest Member: Green Street Green May 20, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 77, 78... when do you think they should retire? on: May 09, 2019, 06:48:32 AM
Methuselah didn't retire until he was 897, so.....
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB albums sabotaged by one song on: May 06, 2019, 06:49:47 AM
I would like to point out first, that it is actually Al Jardine singing lead on Santa Ann Winds.

Mike sings...
"And see the San Gabriel Mountain scene"
"Becoming one with the boundless sea"
"Whispering the wisdom and its purity"



Oh yes. They are both jarring on this one. I like the earlier version better.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Career mishaps?? on: May 02, 2019, 06:33:26 AM
Cancellation of the world tour in 1977??? Of course if they didn't,  the whole world would see what Australia would see.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 01, 2019, 06:40:48 PM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?

This is why I'm leaving any negative comments that Brian might want "out there" to him. You'll probably hear few, if any from him.  Rocky was a complicated part of Brian's life, to say the least. I haven't read the book and can't anytime soon (emotionally) since I'm dealing with a complicated situation with my husband's health. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but I'm guessing Stan and Rocky were doing what they thought was their jobs. Also on a few things Rocky posted here in response to me comments - let's just say my memory was quite different. I didn't correct them. The truth is, it doesn't matter anymore. My sense is that Brian wants to be at peace with it all, and that certainly works for me. Brian (and I) truly don't like being at odds with others, and he deals with these things in his own way. I know I got really angry with people here since I'm so protective of Brian, family and friends. I said things I shouldn't have. I was just exhausted with all the destructive misinformation people were sharing and made a bad choice.  Brian is NOT forced to tour. It's his choice. So if anyone trashes his tour plans implying that it's against his will, I see red. They're diminishing the supportive people around Brian and his own personal choices, and I love and care about these people - the ones who REALLY knows what's going on with Brian without a personal agenda are the ones who are there for him personally.



First, I want to send my prayers to you and your husband! I have been through that with loved ones as well!

Any rumors I heard concerning Brian's current state was laid to rest when Al Jardine began touring with Brian. Al is a life long friend and I know that if anything was going on, he would have been against it. I think that Mike Love deeply cares for Brian as well and I can understand his suspicions based on those who have used Brian in the past. I have seen Mike tear up when talking about Brian.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 01, 2019, 06:59:01 AM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Corvette For Sale on: May 01, 2019, 06:49:08 AM
I will put in a bid for $5. That's all I can afford. Razz
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 19, 2019, 12:23:21 PM
This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

Yes - There is a very significant upside, happy endings in Hollywood movies look like one thing, but in real life, they can look like what you see today. (this in my opinion is one reason the 2015 movie didn't really catch on with a larger audience - among other things, it wasn't Hollywood enough) There is also tremendous loss and regret in this story. It's basically life as it is for most people. 

Re: above - sorry that you feel sick - I hope the implication is not that the posters in this thread (including myself) are responsible for that feeling, because we're not.  The story is what it is, and some of these comments are merely reflecting on reality - what is.  I do agree that perhaps this subject is not suitable for a good-natured fan message board which is better suited to battle-of-the-bands and rank-the-best type stuff, which is fine, and fun.

One more comment. The main reason why the story is even discernable to random members of the public is because Brian Wilson lived. If he had died, say in 1969, or 1974, or 1989, his story would have died with him.  If a person doesn't like the ugly stuff, fine, but know that the case can be made that the person most responsible for this information being known is Brian Wilson himself - by surviving, and by passive-aggressively permitting his story to be told by others.  There is of course push-back against this, as only most recently expressed in the material that is the subject of this thread.  Everyone is free to look at the story and come to his own conclusion.  Maybe it's an anti-drug story, maybe it's something else, maybe it's both.

(and as Debbie KL is saying, the idea that Brian is "fragile" is preposterous. You want to see fragility, turn on your t.v.)


Since everyone here (apart from the discussion about the book itself, which has content that has obviously been compromised due to the spector of legal threats) seems to be discussing these tricky topics with respect, I think it's basically a good thing for this stuff to be examined.

I say it's a good thing when a d-bag like Landy (and his methods) has his actions examined and discussed, so that people know just what type of damage people like that can inflict on others, in the hopes that this story is well-known and won't be repeated with a different vulnerable person and a different quack.

The more the public knows about the methods of cretins like these, perhaps someone in Gloria's position might be more attuned to notice abuse in another situation. That said, it can be difficult to read writings about this topic as it relates to Brian, just as some of the scenes in Love & Mercy are cringeworthy in their brutal honesty about an awful time for a good man being abused by a genuinely bad guy.

I agree with you. I am curious as to the legal issues the book is having. I have heard that many have accused Rocky of being a liar, but I haven't seen any contradictions to what was written about him in Stebbins book The Real Beach Boy. But I am also curious if others that were around like Marilyn,  Stan, Stephen or Mike have read the book and agree or disagree with it's context. While I don't support everything Rocky and Stan did, the story sounds believable.  Flaws and all. I think we can all look in the mirror and see that at times we have done the wrong thing with right motive. I don't know what Rocky's motives were/are.  They could be bad. But most of us don't know. I will also point out that Mike also cares for Brian. He has shown a distrust for people caring for Brian. Even today! He believes Melinda has alternative motives. I do believe there were plenty of signs that Eugene had alternative motives.  Though his son days the movie was unfair to Eugene. I would be interested in hearing Eugene's son side of the story too. While this stuff may be too depressing for some, and they like to focus on the positive,  I can understand that as well. Perhaps, I am a nerd and like to know everything and all sides. If Murray had written a book, I would read it! Doesn't matter if I like the person or doubt their motives. Every one thinks they have a good reason in their own mind for what they do. Right or wrong. So I choose to have an attitude of mercy. Even with someone as evil as Charles Manson, I see his up bring or lack there of. By no means a justification, but an understanding of his background lead him down a destructive path. I am sure he also had mental illness or demons that were never properly treated.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 17, 2019, 10:42:54 AM
I listened to the interview of Rocky and Ron. It seems that Rocky was the only one with a decent knowledge of the group.  I am probably more sympathetic to Rocky than most here. Though I disagree with he and Stan using aggression against 2 other guys with the same addictions,  and I agree that Brian needed real medical and psychological help. Perhaps Marilyn was blinded by her love for Brian that she didn't want him to have to go to a mental hospital. As it states in the book. Perhaps he is more positive about Mike and negative about Dennis and Carl than most of us are. But we have to understand the context of the time he was working for Brian. All 3 Wilson's were a mess! Mike and Al were the more responsible ones at that time. I must also state that Rocky did also say that Mike could be an egotistical rock star, as was his experience with many rock stars he met. He also talked about how sad he was when he discovered Dennis died. He mentioned that Stephen Love had told him to remember what good things they did for the band. I do honestly believe that Stan and Rocky,  though flawed actually loved Brian and did it for the right reasons. Unlike Eugene Landy, who seemed to have other motives. There is absolutely no excuse for Rocky knocking out Carl, or Stan and Rocky beating up Dennis! Unfortunately,  Rocky is still proud of those things, saying that it was tough love and they helped save Brian. I would say, Stan and Rocky were athletes and thus had that Bob Knight, head coach tough love attitude.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 11, 2019, 05:34:31 AM
While I agree this is Al, to say this is obvious is redicoulus! Now that I have listened to the Beach Boys thousands of times and have become more familiar with their voices,  I can tell. And once, someone told me it was Al on All This Is That, I listened again more closely and noticed that it was indeed Al. But not sure if I would have considered that on my own. I think it is also obvious to us hard core Beach Boys fans that Help Me Rhonda and You're So Good To Me are 2 different lead singers. But I guarantee most casual listeners probably think they are both Brian.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 08, 2019, 06:43:20 PM
Here's another one. Though in Wikipedia,  it only notes Brian and Mike on lead vocals, the song No Go Showboat appears to be Al singin "White wall slicks with racing mags
She's just for looks, man, not for drags". And all the parts with that melody. Anyone else notice that?
11  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Scott Bennett Update: He's Due to Be Released on: April 07, 2019, 01:06:28 PM
As far as we know,  this was Scott's first offense. Which means there is hope that he has learned from his mistake. Perhaps it will keep him away from alcohol,  knowing what he is capable of. I think there is a big difference between a serial rapist, and someone who got drunk and couldn't control themselves. I agree, the harm on the victim is the same. But the question is if Scott should be considered dangerous after serving a year in prison? I know most of us, if we did something stupid that we had never done before, and spent a year in prison, it would scare us straight! Weather that means stop drinking, or get counsiling for sex addiction or whatever. A serial rapist on the other hand, is someone who has done it many times over and were perfectly sober for doing so. Some may say that Scott may have done it other times. But our justice system protects innocence until proven guilty.  Thus, as far as the law is concerned,  he did this once, whole intoxicated. Each and every one of us have evil base desires that we have self control over. Which is why getting drunk or abusing drugs can be dangerous to ourselves and others. Therefore, if something has not been determined as a person's regular behavior,  I believe they deserve a second chance.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 06, 2019, 07:17:02 AM
Let's not forget how alike Brian and Al sounds on ADITLOAT! The discussion I saw here on which one of 'em that really sung the last "Oh lord I lay me down"-part really blew my mind. I remember how the way Al sung "Brances" made it more clear it was him. Without that one, it would be next to impossible!

The way Brian sings in I Wasn't Made for These Times, 'sometimes I feel very sad...' sounds like Al as well. But it's Brian. Hut agree that 'Oh Lord I lay me down' is Al.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 04, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
do we know here where al really was, when they shot the summer days/nights cover-

I heard Al was sick on the day this photo was taken. Which is redicoulus because there were plenty of other photos they could have used with Al from that period.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 04, 2019, 12:22:38 AM
After really thinking it over, I think it might be Al and Mike trading lines in the second verse. For example, It might be Al singing "Wisdom warming as the sun", but I think "You and I are truly one" is 100% Mike.

I wouldn't rule this out! They did often switch leads like this within songs!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Challenge: Combine MIU and LA into a single cohesive classic LP on: April 03, 2019, 09:30:31 PM
Good Timin
Bells of Paris
Full Sail
My Diane
Sweet Sunday Love
Sumahama
Winds of Change

Lady Lynda
Hey Little Tomboy
Angel Come Home
Match Point
Love Surrounds Me
Baby Blue
Shortnen Bread
 
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The high-quality color photos of Mike's childhood on: April 03, 2019, 08:29:58 AM
Is there a picture of OSD getting his “surf’s up” poster signed by the lovester? Evil


Oh god, I hope not. We'd then have to initiate a Weirdest Photos of OSD!  Thud

Yes! Let's do it! Anything to make OSD more like Mike! Lol! How about a picture in a Hawaiian shirt with John Stamos? Maybe if you experience his life, you will have more sympathy for him.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 06:45:18 PM
  How many of you, like myself thought it was Mike singing the lead in All This is That? So it Amazes me, that while Carl and Dennis have distinct voices, it's non family member Al that most resembles Brian and Mike vocally!

Mind is blown. For YEARS since I first heard this song, I thought that was Mike. I just went back and relistened.
Did someone tell you, or did you figure it out? I can hardly believe it!

I don't recall how I figured that out. I know we have an official vocal thread, so if there were any doubts, it confirmed that it is indeed Al.
It's both of them. They each sing a verse.

Interesting. Who sings which verse?

Lol! I had to listen again just now. No it's Al in both verses. But it's possible Mike is over dubbing on the first verse.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
One more. Al actually sounds a bit like Bruce on Looking At Tomorrow.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 12:08:28 PM
I'm really curious about Al's vocal parts on All Dressed Up For School.

Is Brian even singing on that song? I feel like I clearly hear Brian singing the opening "dit dit dits", but could it just be Carl's voice sounding Brian-like?  Sometimes I think I have it all figured out with who's singing what, and then new facts emerge.

I'm just wondering why Al was chosen to sing the very distinctively Brian-esque falsetto parts on the choruses. Almost like this was a studio test to see if Al could pull off a very Brian part for when the song would be performed live on tour sans Brian, which of course didn't happen since the song's release was nixed.

I hadn't noticed that! I will have to listen again. It's hard enough to tell them apart as the leads sometimes, much less backing vocals! Lol
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 12:06:53 PM
  How many of you, like myself thought it was Mike singing the lead in All This is That? So it Amazes me, that while Carl and Dennis have distinct voices, it's non family member Al that most resembles Brian and Mike vocally!

Mind is blown. For YEARS since I first heard this song, I thought that was Mike. I just went back and relistened.
Did someone tell you, or did you figure it out? I can hardly believe it!

I don't recall how I figured that out. I know we have an official vocal thread, so if there were any doubts, it confirmed that it is indeed Al.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 10:16:39 AM
Al’s voice was the glue the “blend” needed in the studio.

Absolutely! I definitely think he was the best singer of the band in the 2012 reunion.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 01, 2019, 06:18:35 AM
I am simply amazed at how this non family member worked so well in the vocal blend for the Beach Boys. When Brian quit touring, it was Al that had the voice that most resembled his on songs like Wouldn't It Be Nice. Even in the studio, the lead singers on Help Me, Rhonda and You're So Good to Me sound like brothers, if not the same person! The lead vocals on I Know There's An Answer or Be Here In the Morning, between Brian and Al, sounds like the same person! Not only that, but Al in his lower register can sound a lot like Mike. How many of you, like myself thought it was Mike singing the lead in All This is That? So it Amazes me, that while Carl and Dennis have distinct voices, it's non family member Al that most resembles Brian and Mike vocally!
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 01, 2019, 06:01:11 AM
I just noticed a couple of odd mistakes in the book. There is a photo on page 121 that he dates as 1978. But Brian and Carl look more like this is the late 80s or early 90s??? Later, Rocky claims Brian wrote 'Its Like Heaven' in 1978 after Brian had moved into his own house. Apparently,  Brian asked him to write lyrics. Rocky said, 'What's the matter Brian? Are you running out of lyrics?' Which turned into 'What's the matter with you, babe?' What's the matter with you?' The problem is, that lyric was in the 1972 version with American Spring. So either Rocky is confused on the timeline (but this being in Brian's new house seems unlikely to forget), or Rocky had never heard the song and Brian gave him credit for saying something similar to what had already been written,  or Rocky is making this up! But he does get credit for the song, so there is something to this.

“It’s Like Heaven” has appeared as a bonus track on reissues of the 1972 album but it was recorded in the late seventies, no?

Oh I see. That's confusing.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: March 31, 2019, 07:07:21 PM
I just noticed a couple of odd mistakes in the book. There is a photo on page 121 that he dates as 1978. But Brian and Carl look more like this is the late 80s or early 90s??? Later, Rocky claims Brian wrote 'Its Like Heaven' in 1978 after Brian had moved into his own house. Apparently,  Brian asked him to write lyrics. Rocky said, 'What's the matter Brian? Are you running out of lyrics?' Which turned into 'What's the matter with you, babe?' What's the matter with you?' The problem is, that lyric was in the 1972 version with American Spring. So either Rocky is confused on the timeline (but this being in Brian's new house seems unlikely to forget), or Rocky had never heard the song and Brian gave him credit for saying something similar to what had already been written,  or Rocky is making this up! But he does get credit for the song, so there is something to this.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB albums sabotaged by one song on: March 27, 2019, 02:23:33 PM

Also Remove Wont Somebody Dance With Me from Goin Public for surrrreeee


I actually totally like that one as a guilty pleasure!

In fact, I just re listened to it on YouTube right now, and I stand by my love of this tune.

It kind of reminds me of something sappy, yet awesome, that would be on a late '70s teen movie soundtrack during a romantic scene.
Sort of has a similar vibe to this underrated and hardly known tune by Cotton, Lloyd, and Christian, which I discovered from the soundtrack of a crappy yet rad 1978 film called Malibu Beach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FcAG-57rsQ

That and Thank You Baby are the only ones I actually like!   Cheesy
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