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649805 Posts in 25978 Topics by 3702 Members - Latest Member: GV August 25, 2019, 11:17:12 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike The Melody Maker on: July 19, 2019, 06:34:49 AM
Quote
I think it is true that Mike wrote the r&b style verses of "Anna Lee." I am less sure about "All I Wanna Do."
Agree, magie, AIWD isn't the type song Mike could be capable to write. & AL got simplistic melody in verses that fits Mike. Mike's main strength is lyrics, there he made impressive things.

Actually,  I think Mike could have come up with all the melody and words to a song like AIWD and LTWB. Then Brian arranged it. Think about what Sloop John B was before Brian took off with it. And just because Mike couldn't preform on the piano or guitar doesn't mean he isn't familiar enough with the chords to write a song. I'm not saying he did. I really don't know.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Yesterday happened with Beach Boys music? on: July 19, 2019, 06:25:29 AM
If the members of The Beach Boys had never become a musical group, I still think Dennis and Brian would have grown up to have the same issues no matter what, due to longstanding psychological damage brought on by their dear old dad. Hell, Brian may have been plagued with feelings of being a failure, having all this musical talent and not being able to utilize it in a successful way.

Excellent point and I agree. A lot of trauma was baked into the family early on, and I think the three Wilson brothers were going to have a tough time of it no matter what. We are lucky today that they were able to channel their pain into great, timeless art.

At least in Brian's case, I can't see him having the exact same issues. What are the chances Brian takes acid had he never been in the music business? And on top of that, had he never been in the music business he'd never have the money to buy the amount of coke, marijuana, and whatever else he was buying post-65. In the words of Brian Wilson, LSD "shattered my mind in I don't even know how many pieces" - had he never taken acid I don't think his mind would've shattered like it did for him....which led him to be completely reckless...

...and I just don't see him destroying his life with coke had he never been a musician. So many of his issues were exaserbated by the use of drugs. And had he never had the blank check to buy as much coke as he wanted, I doubt Landy would've ever entered the picture - and think about how many issues Landy alone must've given Brian. I just don't see any of that happening had Brian ended up being an accountant, high school baseball coach, music teacher or something.

No doubt he would've still had anxiety and paranoia, but not to the degree that the drugs pushed him into.
Not to derail this topic to much, but you have just touched upon an interesting "What if?" question. What if Brian had never tried pot or lsd ? Or any drug at all for that matter. I can't remember if it was the marijuana or lsd, but supposedly the voices Brian hears constantly to this day started immediately after Brian tried one of the two substances.

His first nervous breakdown happened in late 1964 after he had marijuana for the first time. His 2nd breakdown happened in the spring of 1967, which lead to paranoia  and hearing inner voices. I'm not sure how long before that he had LSD.  I think he had his first LSD trip in 65 before recording California Girls. Perhaps there was another drug he took later, or those things began the process that slowly built up to the inner voices.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Yesterday happened with Beach Boys music? on: July 16, 2019, 12:50:58 PM
The best hope for the Beach Boys music would be if something like this happens to Darian Sajanaja, or one of the guys in the Explorers club. No, it wouldn't be top 40, but I bet they could give it an indie following. Most people could never do the Beach Boys music justice. 90% of covers I hear are watered down and cheesy.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs Mike, Al, Brian and/or BB should cover - I nominate . . . on: July 13, 2019, 10:10:58 PM
Amish Paradise
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sweet Mountain (1974) on: July 13, 2019, 10:06:28 PM
https://youtu.be/dNmx3TaHfCY

Here is the one I made for that period. I called it California Feeling. I do like your Sweet Mountain album as well. Though realistically,  Mike and Al would get some leads.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / What if Yesterday happened with Beach Boys music? on: July 13, 2019, 09:58:28 PM
If you haven't seen the movie 'Yesterday' there are spoilers here. But to sum it up, a guy wakes up and the Beatles never existed even though he remembers them. So what if this happened in the Beach Boys world? So if you have seen the movie, you know that John Lennon was a real man and still alive which makes total sense because it was his celebrity status that was why he was shot and  the shooter wanted to make a name for himself. I wonder if Dennis or Carl might still be alive today. Would Brian be mentally more healthy?Also, if we wanted to duplicate the music, the magic of it would be very difficult to achieve. It's not just the arrangements,  but the vocal blend and the feeling that Brian added to it. Which is one fault of the movie. A guy playing Beatles song on the guitar is not the same energy that the Beatles as a band put into their music. Some of the arrangements and versions were good in their own way.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Deep question concerning 'You Still Believe In Me' on: June 14, 2019, 06:30:49 AM
First, I know that on a first date, or even early in a relationship,  being this open would be weird. But is it still weird when the couple is deep in a relationship? If so, what is the difference between being sensitive and opening up like this? Perhaps they want a 'manly' man, but if we are all being honest here, men have a feminine side. As much as we wish to be 'macho', we also deep down want to be able to express these kinds of deep feelings to someone that will listen and understand.

This might be way out of left field, but your line of questioning reminds me somewhat of the "Mars and Venus" book series. I was definitely more of an introverted Brian Wilson type than an extroverted Mike Love type (LOL) when in my 20s, and books like those were actually helpful to me in understanding the differences between men's and women's perceptions, and expected gender roles in early dating and early relationships. I liked the "Mars and Venus on a Date" book in particular for that reason. Again, kind of out of left field but FWIW you may find them interesting and/or helpful.



I will check it out
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Deep question concerning 'You Still Believe In Me' on: June 13, 2019, 06:04:43 PM
Stay single, adopt cat =  3D & cute/fun.
Brian's vulnerability is sth. I find charming.

I don't like cats.  Geek
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Deep question concerning 'You Still Believe In Me' on: June 13, 2019, 10:15:46 AM
Perhaps a bit 'Dear Abbey' and may belong in the Sandbox....

I just listened to the new episode on the  Sail On podbean.
https://sailon.podbean.com/
These have been great if you haven't heard them yet! This latest episode is about 'You Still Believe In Me'. Something they mentioned is how personal and open Brian (or Tony Asher) is. Brian described it as exposing the female side. They mentioned how a lady gets weirded out by a guy that does this. My question has more to do with my lack of understanding of women. So any women on here, I would appreciate your input as well. First, I know that on a first date, or even early in a relationship,  being this open would be weird. But is it still weird when the couple is deep in a relationship? If so, what is the difference between being sensitive and opening up like this? Perhaps they want a 'manly' man, but if we are all being honest here, men have a feminine side. As much as we wish to be 'macho', we also deep down want to be able to express these kinds of deep feelings to someone that will listen and understand. As someone who has been single most of my life, I have had a difficult time connecting with a woman as I am  kind of a unique soul that wasn't made for these times. Sorry, perhaps this belongs in the sandbox. Lol!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 77, 78... when do you think they should retire? on: May 09, 2019, 06:48:32 AM
Methuselah didn't retire until he was 897, so.....
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB albums sabotaged by one song on: May 06, 2019, 06:49:47 AM
I would like to point out first, that it is actually Al Jardine singing lead on Santa Ann Winds.

Mike sings...
"And see the San Gabriel Mountain scene"
"Becoming one with the boundless sea"
"Whispering the wisdom and its purity"



Oh yes. They are both jarring on this one. I like the earlier version better.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Career mishaps?? on: May 02, 2019, 06:33:26 AM
Cancellation of the world tour in 1977??? Of course if they didn't,  the whole world would see what Australia would see.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 01, 2019, 06:40:48 PM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?

This is why I'm leaving any negative comments that Brian might want "out there" to him. You'll probably hear few, if any from him.  Rocky was a complicated part of Brian's life, to say the least. I haven't read the book and can't anytime soon (emotionally) since I'm dealing with a complicated situation with my husband's health. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but I'm guessing Stan and Rocky were doing what they thought was their jobs. Also on a few things Rocky posted here in response to me comments - let's just say my memory was quite different. I didn't correct them. The truth is, it doesn't matter anymore. My sense is that Brian wants to be at peace with it all, and that certainly works for me. Brian (and I) truly don't like being at odds with others, and he deals with these things in his own way. I know I got really angry with people here since I'm so protective of Brian, family and friends. I said things I shouldn't have. I was just exhausted with all the destructive misinformation people were sharing and made a bad choice.  Brian is NOT forced to tour. It's his choice. So if anyone trashes his tour plans implying that it's against his will, I see red. They're diminishing the supportive people around Brian and his own personal choices, and I love and care about these people - the ones who REALLY knows what's going on with Brian without a personal agenda are the ones who are there for him personally.



First, I want to send my prayers to you and your husband! I have been through that with loved ones as well!

Any rumors I heard concerning Brian's current state was laid to rest when Al Jardine began touring with Brian. Al is a life long friend and I know that if anything was going on, he would have been against it. I think that Mike Love deeply cares for Brian as well and I can understand his suspicions based on those who have used Brian in the past. I have seen Mike tear up when talking about Brian.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: May 01, 2019, 06:59:01 AM

Thx to you Jay. You couldn't have been more correct. I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason. Brian doesn't need to relive them, nor anyone else.


With respect, I agree with some of this, and less with other parts.

I saw things no one should ever have to see. I won't be sharing them for that reason.

Okay, yes, especially if this means that you will not share them on a random message board like this.

Brian doesn't need to relive them [ ]


Yeah, this sounds about right too, particularly at this late stage. In fact, one of the open questions in the study of trauma recovery (Brian Wilson is, among other things a survivor of a punishing regimen of trauma inflicted upon him, in one form or another, for 40 or 50 years, I would say; some of it inflicted intentionally with malice, some of it inadvertently, some it passively) is to what degree the survivor really needs to delve into the finer details of what occurred, in order to heal.  The problem, as far as I know, is that "reliving" can, in some cases, ultimately lead to healing, while in other cases, "reliving" only retraumatizes the person and doesn't make things better. (I'm not a doctor by the way, but even if I was, it wouldn't mean I knew what I was talking about)


[...]nor anyone else.


This is a very different question.  Brian has almost certainly made statements to the effect of, "I don't want to talk about" or "I don't like thinking about it," or he abruptly ends an interview, whatever.  I'm not sure that he has ever really said, "the public shouldn't know about it," or "people shouldn't talk about it etc." Strong case could be made that there's evidence that Brian does want (or at least doesn't mind if) people talk about this stuff. Certainly, in my opinion, the recent memoir, the movie and whatever that "mental illness" awareness campaign thing was indicates that he is on the side of open discussion.  It very well could be just that he , himself, doesn't want to be involved in that discussion.  The question is, how are these matters to be discussed.  Message board maybe not a great forum (it may seem like I'm discussing them here, but I'm barely tiptoeing around the edges) but they ought to be aired at some point. 

So, now, with Pamplin and Hamady, we have a fresh, formally published account of Brian's "mental illness" years (not the first, of course, much of the material has been laid out in earlier books)  The book is honest - they mean what they wrote and it is sensible as far as it goes: drugs bad, money good.  Beyond that, as I said before somewhere in this thread, the book is, simply, wrong.  Debbie's take is not necessarily "right," but it might take account of things that other people blow right past, such as, "hey, this is an actual human being." 


Has Brian ever even been asked about Rpcky? I know there are certain things he has said, "I'd rather not talk about it". But he has openly discussed Eugene Landy. He even indorsed Love and Mercy. Is his experience with Rocky any worse than that?
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Corvette For Sale on: May 01, 2019, 06:49:08 AM
I will put in a bid for $5. That's all I can afford. Razz
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 19, 2019, 12:23:21 PM
This whole topic and thread is starting to make me feel sick.

Yep. Imagine living it. My first conversation with Melinda (before they were married) was agreeing how amazingly strong Brian is. We focus in his emotional fragility, but he's also one tough cookie. He's been out there touring in spite of physical challenges. Let's look at that up-side.

Yes - There is a very significant upside, happy endings in Hollywood movies look like one thing, but in real life, they can look like what you see today. (this in my opinion is one reason the 2015 movie didn't really catch on with a larger audience - among other things, it wasn't Hollywood enough) There is also tremendous loss and regret in this story. It's basically life as it is for most people. 

Re: above - sorry that you feel sick - I hope the implication is not that the posters in this thread (including myself) are responsible for that feeling, because we're not.  The story is what it is, and some of these comments are merely reflecting on reality - what is.  I do agree that perhaps this subject is not suitable for a good-natured fan message board which is better suited to battle-of-the-bands and rank-the-best type stuff, which is fine, and fun.

One more comment. The main reason why the story is even discernable to random members of the public is because Brian Wilson lived. If he had died, say in 1969, or 1974, or 1989, his story would have died with him.  If a person doesn't like the ugly stuff, fine, but know that the case can be made that the person most responsible for this information being known is Brian Wilson himself - by surviving, and by passive-aggressively permitting his story to be told by others.  There is of course push-back against this, as only most recently expressed in the material that is the subject of this thread.  Everyone is free to look at the story and come to his own conclusion.  Maybe it's an anti-drug story, maybe it's something else, maybe it's both.

(and as Debbie KL is saying, the idea that Brian is "fragile" is preposterous. You want to see fragility, turn on your t.v.)


Since everyone here (apart from the discussion about the book itself, which has content that has obviously been compromised due to the spector of legal threats) seems to be discussing these tricky topics with respect, I think it's basically a good thing for this stuff to be examined.

I say it's a good thing when a d-bag like Landy (and his methods) has his actions examined and discussed, so that people know just what type of damage people like that can inflict on others, in the hopes that this story is well-known and won't be repeated with a different vulnerable person and a different quack.

The more the public knows about the methods of cretins like these, perhaps someone in Gloria's position might be more attuned to notice abuse in another situation. That said, it can be difficult to read writings about this topic as it relates to Brian, just as some of the scenes in Love & Mercy are cringeworthy in their brutal honesty about an awful time for a good man being abused by a genuinely bad guy.

I agree with you. I am curious as to the legal issues the book is having. I have heard that many have accused Rocky of being a liar, but I haven't seen any contradictions to what was written about him in Stebbins book The Real Beach Boy. But I am also curious if others that were around like Marilyn,  Stan, Stephen or Mike have read the book and agree or disagree with it's context. While I don't support everything Rocky and Stan did, the story sounds believable.  Flaws and all. I think we can all look in the mirror and see that at times we have done the wrong thing with right motive. I don't know what Rocky's motives were/are.  They could be bad. But most of us don't know. I will also point out that Mike also cares for Brian. He has shown a distrust for people caring for Brian. Even today! He believes Melinda has alternative motives. I do believe there were plenty of signs that Eugene had alternative motives.  Though his son days the movie was unfair to Eugene. I would be interested in hearing Eugene's son side of the story too. While this stuff may be too depressing for some, and they like to focus on the positive,  I can understand that as well. Perhaps, I am a nerd and like to know everything and all sides. If Murray had written a book, I would read it! Doesn't matter if I like the person or doubt their motives. Every one thinks they have a good reason in their own mind for what they do. Right or wrong. So I choose to have an attitude of mercy. Even with someone as evil as Charles Manson, I see his up bring or lack there of. By no means a justification, but an understanding of his background lead him down a destructive path. I am sure he also had mental illness or demons that were never properly treated.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: April 17, 2019, 10:42:54 AM
I listened to the interview of Rocky and Ron. It seems that Rocky was the only one with a decent knowledge of the group.  I am probably more sympathetic to Rocky than most here. Though I disagree with he and Stan using aggression against 2 other guys with the same addictions,  and I agree that Brian needed real medical and psychological help. Perhaps Marilyn was blinded by her love for Brian that she didn't want him to have to go to a mental hospital. As it states in the book. Perhaps he is more positive about Mike and negative about Dennis and Carl than most of us are. But we have to understand the context of the time he was working for Brian. All 3 Wilson's were a mess! Mike and Al were the more responsible ones at that time. I must also state that Rocky did also say that Mike could be an egotistical rock star, as was his experience with many rock stars he met. He also talked about how sad he was when he discovered Dennis died. He mentioned that Stephen Love had told him to remember what good things they did for the band. I do honestly believe that Stan and Rocky,  though flawed actually loved Brian and did it for the right reasons. Unlike Eugene Landy, who seemed to have other motives. There is absolutely no excuse for Rocky knocking out Carl, or Stan and Rocky beating up Dennis! Unfortunately,  Rocky is still proud of those things, saying that it was tough love and they helped save Brian. I would say, Stan and Rocky were athletes and thus had that Bob Knight, head coach tough love attitude.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 11, 2019, 05:34:31 AM
While I agree this is Al, to say this is obvious is redicoulus! Now that I have listened to the Beach Boys thousands of times and have become more familiar with their voices,  I can tell. And once, someone told me it was Al on All This Is That, I listened again more closely and noticed that it was indeed Al. But not sure if I would have considered that on my own. I think it is also obvious to us hard core Beach Boys fans that Help Me Rhonda and You're So Good To Me are 2 different lead singers. But I guarantee most casual listeners probably think they are both Brian.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 08, 2019, 06:43:20 PM
Here's another one. Though in Wikipedia,  it only notes Brian and Mike on lead vocals, the song No Go Showboat appears to be Al singin "White wall slicks with racing mags
She's just for looks, man, not for drags". And all the parts with that melody. Anyone else notice that?
20  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Scott Bennett Update: He's Due to Be Released on: April 07, 2019, 01:06:28 PM
As far as we know,  this was Scott's first offense. Which means there is hope that he has learned from his mistake. Perhaps it will keep him away from alcohol,  knowing what he is capable of. I think there is a big difference between a serial rapist, and someone who got drunk and couldn't control themselves. I agree, the harm on the victim is the same. But the question is if Scott should be considered dangerous after serving a year in prison? I know most of us, if we did something stupid that we had never done before, and spent a year in prison, it would scare us straight! Weather that means stop drinking, or get counsiling for sex addiction or whatever. A serial rapist on the other hand, is someone who has done it many times over and were perfectly sober for doing so. Some may say that Scott may have done it other times. But our justice system protects innocence until proven guilty.  Thus, as far as the law is concerned,  he did this once, whole intoxicated. Each and every one of us have evil base desires that we have self control over. Which is why getting drunk or abusing drugs can be dangerous to ourselves and others. Therefore, if something has not been determined as a person's regular behavior,  I believe they deserve a second chance.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 06, 2019, 07:17:02 AM
Let's not forget how alike Brian and Al sounds on ADITLOAT! The discussion I saw here on which one of 'em that really sung the last "Oh lord I lay me down"-part really blew my mind. I remember how the way Al sung "Brances" made it more clear it was him. Without that one, it would be next to impossible!

The way Brian sings in I Wasn't Made for These Times, 'sometimes I feel very sad...' sounds like Al as well. But it's Brian. Hut agree that 'Oh Lord I lay me down' is Al.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 04, 2019, 12:24:59 AM
do we know here where al really was, when they shot the summer days/nights cover-

I heard Al was sick on the day this photo was taken. Which is redicoulus because there were plenty of other photos they could have used with Al from that period.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Voice of Al Jardine on: April 04, 2019, 12:22:38 AM
After really thinking it over, I think it might be Al and Mike trading lines in the second verse. For example, It might be Al singing "Wisdom warming as the sun", but I think "You and I are truly one" is 100% Mike.

I wouldn't rule this out! They did often switch leads like this within songs!
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Challenge: Combine MIU and LA into a single cohesive classic LP on: April 03, 2019, 09:30:31 PM
Good Timin
Bells of Paris
Full Sail
My Diane
Sweet Sunday Love
Sumahama
Winds of Change

Lady Lynda
Hey Little Tomboy
Angel Come Home
Match Point
Love Surrounds Me
Baby Blue
Shortnen Bread
 
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The high-quality color photos of Mike's childhood on: April 03, 2019, 08:29:58 AM
Is there a picture of OSD getting his “surf’s up” poster signed by the lovester? Evil


Oh god, I hope not. We'd then have to initiate a Weirdest Photos of OSD!  Thud

Yes! Let's do it! Anything to make OSD more like Mike! Lol! How about a picture in a Hawaiian shirt with John Stamos? Maybe if you experience his life, you will have more sympathy for him.
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