Emily, please take this as a compliment.....your a stud !!!   

One curious thought.  As a traveler to Spokane WA. many times a year to see my grandchildren, how in the world would the Spokesman Review (which is still the morning paper there) have gotten this story....Rather amazing I would think.

9/10

amen Ontor..........oh Mods, this is going to go south very fast.....

   I truly wish the film and its actors/actresses/directors receive as many nominations/awards that can come their way.  In my own morbid way looking to the future, I relish this love for Brian RISE UP, just as.......Mikes book comes out over the next year trying to change Beach Boys history.  Sorry to all for my last comment as I'm NOT trying to hijack the thread.  By having the film industry cement Love and Mercy as a justifiable biopic of early Beach Boys history.  I feel IMO, this will help with all the garbage about to thrown into BW's back yard from the other side of the fence in about a years time.

   To the Mods, if you feel this post is undesirable....please delete.

Sheriff, reference the set-list friction.  I SAW it firsthand prior to the C50 Cleveland Ohio show in middle of June 2012.  My wife bought us M&G/Sound check tickets for the show. Fantastic experience. After 7 or 8 songs Brian yelled over to Mike, lets do Marcella.  Mike responded "we" don't know Marcella.  Brian says, "Mike, my guys know Marcella". So...then everyone stops for a moment and the principals make their way, along with Totten, over to Brian's piano.  A lively discussion went on for a minute or so, not yelling, but it seemed opinionated to me with Mike saying a lot during that short time.  It wasn't a yelling match by any means and even being in the first row, I couldn't make out what was being said. But observed alot of tension. 

Also during the sound-check, Mike was on the phone ALOT when he wasn't part of a song being practiced. I thought this was strange at the time and have thought about it alot since, as I've read all the threads since the breakdown of C50.  No way of ever knowing but one just wonders if by June 2012, the breakup at the end was already in the cards.

One final event from the sound-check. Totten kept Al over at the end to practice the end to Help me Rhonda.  Somehow the previous night at the Cincinnati show, Al screwed up his ending and Scott wanted him to practice. A disagreement between the two occurred on how it should be played at the end. Finally Scott says to Al.  "Al, this is how we play it NOW" and he walked away.  Al stayed, practiced it a few times....took off his guitar....looked down at everyone and just shook his head and walked off.  Again in retrospect, it was just very sad to see in person knowing what we all know now.

I did get to shake Al's hand at the M&G.  Mike was very personable to my wife as we had the picture taken.  He also wanted to know at what show I had bought my Beach Boys hat.  Kind of strange in retrospect, but I think he knew could tell it was from an M&B tour. 

It was a great evening but looking back, did I see stuff that, now having 3+ years of reading these threads, that was the beginning of the end.

Reading that really rubs me the wrong way. It's ok for Brian's band (who made up most of the entire C50 band) to learn songs like Still Cruisin', Kokomo and Ballad of Ole' Betsy but Marcella shouldn't be played because Mike's two band members don't know it? Tough sh*t. Learn it. There were five surviving members of The Beach Boys on that tour and each and every one of them deserved to have a say in what songs should be performed. To have a reunion celebrating 50 years of music only to perform a greatest hits show (mostly consisting of a songs from 3 or 4 years) wouldn't have made sense and would have been a HUGE wasted opportunity.

No offense but who is Scott to tell Al how the end of Help Me Rhonda will be performed? He may have been the musical director but Al is a Beach Boy. He should show more respect for a Beach Boy. If the Beach Boy who sings the lead of that song wants to end it a certain way, then end it Al's way. Change your way of doing things for one tour. Then when the touring version of Mike's band goes back on the road, go back to how you end it. I just think that's absurd and it's a shame that fans who paid to sit in on that soundcheck had to witness crap like that. I would have been livid.

Lee, didn't mean to ruin your weekend.  With both touring groups so ensconced with their "own" ways on presenting the BB music, I do recognized the difficulty joining a mixture of the groups for C50.  You're so right that BW had five members from his band and ML had his two, yet Totten was the musical director for the tour.  No one knows how entitled and enabled ML made him during the negotiations just to get the tour off the ground.  I'm a big AJ fan but one can read a post a day about Al being forgetful and missing lines and cues during songs.  Who knows what really came down and in MANY ways, I'm sorry I saw it with my own eyes.  Just a ton of large ego, past excess baggage, and a lot of hurt feelings from over 50 years, for this large an endeavor to have been successful given the past dis-functionality of the within group.  We all wanted different, but Al really says it all in this interview saying Mike put the squash on the tour and its not happening again until east meets west.  Just all so sad because the fans want it, oh so bad !!!

I believe that, had Brian Wilson gone to Mike shortly after the final UK show in Sept 2012, and said something to the effect of "Hey that tour was a blast, let's do it again next summer," then something would've happened.  

But, you're dealing with Brian Wilson here. Certainly the fans on this board are familiar with his history, and Mike Love especially is, too. Actually, Mike Love was directly affected by Brian's decisions - or non-decisions - for 54 years. On Monday Brian wants to continue to tour, but what about when he wakes up on Tuesday? Sometimes you/me/mw/they have to take what Brian Wilson says at a particular time and place, process it, and then try to make sense out of it. Apparently Mike put a lot of merit in the email Brian sent to him saying "No more touring".

I agree you Sheriff.  And had he gone to Mike and said these things instead going to third parties saying "I feel like I was fired," we might not still be talking about the end of C50 today.

And, I agree with you. Once Brian's handlers started to get involved, things took a turn for the worse. Doe anybody actually think Brian himself sat down and typed the email to Mike? Does anybody actually think that Brian himself made the decision to make that statement to the press? Does anybody actually think Brian himself wrote a single word of that statement to the press?

You are right, KDS. Brian talking to Mike directly about "issues" would've been the best way to handle things. And, hey, maybe they did. However, maybe it wasn't even necessary. Mike and others had the opportunity to observe Brian's behavior a few times a week. After 75 shows, Brian had trouble walking to and from the stage. Brian needed assistance getting in and out of his piano chair. There were reports of friction with the setlists. There were reports of friction with the wives. Sometimes common sense has to be applied. Would've it been better for Brian to extend the tour yet again, what, to 100 shows, or have Brian return home to his children, deli, and dogs? Do you ever wonder what Brian REALLY wanted after 75 shows?

You know what's funny about the "ending" of the 2012 tour? Supposedly, so many things were wrong, so many people were unhappy, so many opportunities were missed. Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, not a single person did a single thing to change it.

Sheriff, reference the set-list friction.  I SAW it firsthand prior to the C50 Cleveland Ohio show in middle of June 2012.  My wife bought us M&G/Sound check tickets for the show. Fantastic experience. After 7 or 8 songs Brian yelled over to Mike, lets do Marcella.  Mike responded "we" don't know Marcella.  Brian says, "Mike, my guys know Marcella". So...then everyone stops for a moment and the principals make their way, along with Totten, over to Brian's piano.  A lively discussion went on for a minute or so, not yelling, but it seemed opinionated to me with Mike saying a lot during that short time.  It wasn't a yelling match by any means and even being in the first row, I couldn't make out what was being said. But observed alot of tension. 

Also during the sound-check, Mike was on the phone ALOT when he wasn't part of a song being practiced. I thought this was strange at the time and have thought about it alot since, as I've read all the threads since the breakdown of C50.  No way of ever knowing but one just wonders if by June 2012, the breakup at the end was already in the cards.

One final event from the sound-check. Totten kept Al over at the end to practice the end to Help me Rhonda.  Somehow the previous night at the Cincinnati show, Al screwed up his ending and Scott wanted him to practice. A disagreement between the two occurred on how it should be played at the end. Finally Scott says to Al.  "Al, this is how we play it NOW" and he walked away.  Al stayed, practiced it a few times....took off his guitar....looked down at everyone and just shook his head and walked off.  Again in retrospect, it was just very sad to see in person knowing what we all know now.

I did get to shake Al's hand at the M&G.  Mike was very personable to my wife as we had the picture taken.  He also wanted to know at what show I had bought my Beach Boys hat.  Kind of strange in retrospect, but I think he knew could tell it was from an M&B tour. 

It was a great evening but looking back, did I see stuff that, now having 3+ years of reading these threads, that was the beginning of the end.

I know this is perhaps not quite what the original question posed, but I'm more interested in the band (or BRI really) having good management. Managing BRI now would be a very different task from managing the BBs in the 70s or 80s.

What they need now is someone that can either smooth stuff out and convince the members to worth together or, if that can't work, get everyone on the same page for the *brand* even if they won't work together. Meaning, a huge archival program that not only satisfies fans, but gives the band more cred and builds up more hype. A manager that can get Mike Love and Brian Wilson to promote each others' projects on Facebook (not that that specifically is needed; it would be more an indicator of working towards a common goal even if they don't want to work together). A manager that, if Mike is going to continue to use the BB name, keeps the relationships lubricated enough that Brian and Al don't get "warnings" to not use their own trademarked name too prominently.

I do think, had they had a better manager in past years, they wouldn't perhaps be in the position they are now; so splintered and sometimes adversarial. You wouldn't have this weird situation where the corporation is letting Mike use the name, but some of the band members kind of begrudgingly let it happen.

Had they had better management, the manager wouldn't necessarily be able to change the members' personalities, but they could have shown the members why doing things a certain way would ultimately benefit everyone. Sweeten deals enough to where the benefit outweighs the ego.

You hit the nail on the head.


KDS  +1       As usual Hey Jude, you are right on !!   "Sweetened Deals"  vs  "ego"    Money has killed many friendships in this business over the years.   Fractured relationships are very hard to heal, in a band and in life.  The point, as you noted, is they don't appear (sic and sad) to want to work together anymore, which when one is 70+ years old, father time will march on in spite of the fans wanting one more BB tour.  It doesn't matter what political party one belongs to, or what country one lives in, when your over 70, it takes ALOT to change ones mind. And as a result of all the missteps over the years, we all continue to yearn for just one more time, that, sadly just isn't going to happen.  Probably time to put on Summers Gone...........

It seems fairly obvious from their chequered history that our heroes would definitely have benefited from a strong manager - God Only Knows what would have happened with a bit of stability, continuity and consistency.

One thing for sure, with any type of stable management and a band that remained cohesive as a unit,  we'd have NO Smiley Smile board !!

sorry double post everyone

CD......very thoughtful and insightful post.  Personally I truly think you have hit the nail on the head as to why friction started in this band so long long ago.  I always wondered why it took Mike until 1990-ish to file a lawsuit claiming music credits he felt he deserved in the early 1960's and was never paid for.  We're talking over 25 years !!!  The current Mike is obviously smart enough to realize what he obviously missed in the 60's era.  In the 60's, I truly believe Mike was more enamored with the  "extras" from touring....ie...women...parties (tho he didn't drink back then :-) and maybe even fathering children out of wedlock, than he was to truly understand how the music business worked .  Yes Murry was a pain to all of them, but to think he truly looked at himself as Brian..so far as to protect Brian's future earnings stream going forward and shutting Mike out, seems very rational and believable to me.....For what its worth.

M

y point?  I think there have been credited producers that have had less impact on the music than Murry did at the beginning, so it is not unreasonable to ask why Murry never wanted a credit.  With his role in Sea of Tunes it was unnecessary?  He wanted to give his feedback but didn't want the responsibility of producer where he no doubt knew he was out of his depth?  The whole fight to give Brian the credit for producing and removing Nik Venet would seem a little hypocritical if he was to try and then attach his name as co- producer?

My guess is that Murry thought of Brian as an extension of himself and didn't need to seek credit. Brian was Murry to Murry. Once Brian pulled away as an individual, he retaliated when he could with the sale of Sea of Tunes.

As Peter Reum has written in his blog, The Beach Boys was a family business. Anyone who has been involved in that particular dynamic knows there are hidden landmines.

Perhaps the two incidents are completely isolated, unrelated, and mutually exclusive, but I still do ponder if Murry's mindset of Murry himself apparently not seeking credit (which seems somewhat out of character from what I would imagine of him, considering how much he wanted to interject himself into the process, and show how much he was needed for success to happen) could have played into how Murry apparently desired to not properly credit Mike for Mike's contributions. Was he seeking to vicariously live through Brian and keep every possible non-Brian credit out of the mix, even himself and family like Mike?

It's easy to think that Murry sought to simply make things better for Brian's pocketbooks by excluding Mike, but it is really an odd coincidence, at least in my estimation. Could there be more to it? It is hard to understand many of Murry's actions, of course. I just think that if one believes that Murry excluded Mike out of greed to benefit the Wilsons, why didn't Murry try to get Murry's own name credited (and not as a pseudonym) when possible? If Breakaway had been a hit, wouldn't Murry have wanted his own name on it, if only for bragging rights?

One would think that at *some* point along the way, Murry's actual name would have popped up on a BB credit. I wonder if Brian or the other Boys deeply did not want Murry's name on the credits for Breakaway, as well as some of the early material, which I feel Murry could possibly have finagled a way to get a co-producing credit (properly earned or not) if he had really set his mind to it, Nik Venet-style. Not that Murry had the record company clout and political power of Venet necessarily, but I still think it could possibly have been done on a song or two.

Great post RN and a nice article.   Notice who Al mentioned as the songwriting "drivers" in the 67 to 73 time period.  Someone missing......
Oh well, I'm glad I saw 3 C50 shows.....

Let's move this thread on....


 So, what Beach Boys song do you think would be best to discofy?

Since this is hypothetical, I'd like to de-discofy Runaway Dancer, from NPP. 

Bingo +1 KDS       perfect comment !

1.  Let Him Run Wild
2.  California Feelin
3.  Surf's Up
4.  God Only Knows
5.  That's Not Me

Sticking with the post surf / car era

All I Wanna Do
California Saga
Brian's Back
Sumahuma
Still Cruisin
Daybreak Over the Ocean 


Wasn't California Saga a Al Jardine song ?? 

Let Him Run Wild     Surf's Up     Till I Die       could listen to these nonstop for days   

I did a search but couldn't find it.........Wasn't there some sort of "stipulation" as part of the Al/Lynda divorce that this song couldn't be song by the BB's.
Obviously one wouldn't sing this song about an ex, however I recall reading here years ago about it not being sung formally by decree.   Anyone else remember this ?

just my opinion, but guessing the "Forever" presentation with Dennis was shelved due to the Stamos baggage associated during one C50 concert and JS's continued gaffe's in his personal life.

So  Mike's seen the new Bill Murray movie, but hasn't seen Love and Mercy yet (sic) ........all so very SAD

Great post Mr Desper........so in depth and concise.     My daughter is 32 and its the ringtone on her phone !!!

Ok all you Smiley Smilers wanting the next BW rock and roll album....  How about some Jerry Lee Lewis  covers....you guys name them !!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lloyd-i-sederer-md/the-five-signs-flotus-potus-rock--roll-and-brian-wilson_b_8233286.html

Nice letter from Michelle Obama.  I know there was reference to this before, but I can't find the thread.  I'm ready for the finger wagging on that one, but I thought others might enjoy this.  Thanks to a friend for finding it.

Super news. Thanks for posting Debbie

So I noticed that the MB tour schedule in October stops in Lima, Ohio on 10/18/2015.  All Ohioans know this is Al Jardine's hometown.  Any chance that the MB people "might" invite Al to participate in this evenings concert in Lima?  My gut feeling is it would be just a "damn nice" gesture on the part of the MB people and I'm sure Al probably (hoping) would be responsive to the olive branch extended.

Yes I know there was a big flap at the Jones Beach show last year where Al supposedly committed to the MB crew, the de-committed and went to London to play with Brian and his son Matt.

Thoughts from the crowd of Smiley Smilers ?     Selfishly, all I want is one last reunion tour before these guys hang it up and maybe this nice gesture could be a start of a small snowball becoming a bigger snowball rolling down the hill to that last reunion.

Was hesitant at first on seeing this incarnation as I'm more a Brian fan ( Pet Sounds/Smile era), but after reading the posts of how good the Mike and Bruce version is live went ahead and got tickets for when they come to my town on 2/26/16 (Melbourne FL.)  Taking my 7 yr old daughter with me (who requests me to put on God only Knows and Surfs up on the stereo on a regular basis.)


Hey Blutarsky, wait 20 years and your daughter just might ask you to dance with at her wedding to....God Only Knows
I was very fortunate to have that exact experience and it was a total surprise.

Nice surprise this evening.....celebrating the BIG 60 with the family....opened up my card and there were 2 front row tickey's to the MB show on 9/27 at the Snoqualmie Casino just east of downtown Seattle.  Yes a casino show, but an evening with my daughter will overcome the short set-list !!   hey undercover-m...hit up your dad for tickets !!

Marty....great review....and a great venue.....hope it wasn't too hot and muggy !!!