Think about this: the Surfin Safari lp minus the song and Surfin, not really a "surf" album. Surfin USA was/is a legitimate surf album mixing in the BB vocal blend but just as real as the Surfaris and Dick Dale; then Surfer Girl which was the BB sound full force, so they really only made TWO surf albums- surfin USA & surfer girl. And likewise with hot rod rock, Little Deuce Coupe was their only "car" lp, Shut Down vol2 had ONE car cut with This car of mine. Out of all the subgenres the BBs get pigeonholed into, only one really fits: rockNroll. Right?

Well so tough minus mess of help & marcella is such a weak album and only the most meticulous completiats would acquire it know/ subjective or not I say holland was the true followup to surfs up.

Shes got rhythm, pitter patter, oh darlin, some of your love, goin on, sunshine,,?. In otherwords the newly written cuts on MIU and KTSA.

It's staggering cuz dennis's cuts on sunflower were killer as was til I die and california (on my way tt sunny)...those SHOULDA been big hits; WHO at that time was making great rockNroll? CCR peaked in 70, so who else was making great records in the first half of the 70s yknow..

Im not trying to contradict fact or undermine albums, my main point (which most Ive seen concur) is that Holland was the last solid BBs album and the bookend of their progressive era..I realize the older songs on LA and KTSA were re-recorded Im just saying that it was prevalent they were low on new material in the mid 70s and it effected their output in the second half of the decade. After Holland the only substantial "hit" was Berry's rockNroll music; the BBs were a hit machine 63 thru 68 ans even tho 20/20 is a hodgepodge Id say its a more solid,rockin album than Friends, Sunflower and anything that followed, although Love You has some great moments. And I know I get snide replies when I mention the Ramones but all their key cuts 77-83 have a prevalent BBs sound and its mind boggling that sire/wb couldn't get them a hit when the BBs had rNr music..

, and the light album was  leftovers of old sessions and remakes thrown together...

Complete tosh, of course: of the ten tracks, six are completely new recordings. Seven if you include "HCTN".

Good timin 74, love surrounds me&baby blue- dennis' bambu, sumahama-mike's first/country love, h.c.t.n.- rehashed wild honey, shortenin bread-brian's 76... the whole album was/is rehashed and/or re.recordings etc. How is that tosh??

Frequently. 

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

KTSA was WAAY more of a solid/legitimate lp than the light album and MIU.. it has 3 rockin cuts vs just the one on LA and no godawful disco remake. MIU was the group scrambling to satisfy warners, and the light album was  leftovers of old sessions and remakes thrown together...holland is evident in its contribution from every member and as previously stated- the bookend to their 5/6 progressive era, I would really like to find a good bootleg or compilation of the 74 caribou sessions, but the bulk of that was ruined in.a fire right?

I never said I didnt like the song, I was jus wondering being that all the orig cuts on 15bO were either a couple yrs old or re-records I was jus askin when/where That Same Song originated etc.

Ive got my left arm elbow to shoulder tattooed w BBs : the wild honey bee, the all summer long sun, the Indian/horse/appeal to the great spirit, the pinup from made in USA...and I wanna get the smiley smile cottage.

I take it even further than that. My favorite BB albums are essentially Surfer Girl through Friends. There is still much that I enjoy in the later albums (particularly 20/20 through Love You), but I don't hold even Sunflower in the same regard as, say, All Summer Long. I appreciate the other guys, I love Pacific Ocean Blue, but for me the BB pinnacle is always when the primary sound and sensibility is coming from "classic" Brian.

surfer girl thru 20/20 for sure, friends is a decent lp cuz a little bird, without it not the strongest record...

Agreed. 76 was brians year tho, love you coming out after four years of nada. Its not even so much that the BBs were done making legitimate albums after holland, its that new music was no longer their focus. The last forty years of the BBs is a devotion to the performance not the product.

Cyncie I totally know what you mean but think about how in 77 when the Ramones broke they were hard rockn, cutting edge AND bubblegum, they took the BBs golden era and reinvented rockNroll making it pure again.

I love "So Tough," I LOVE "Holland," I love "Surf's Up," of course... and "Sunflower," and "20/20..." anything from '66-'73 is as good as it gets, for me. The greatest band ever, at the height of their powers. Whether it was Brian as the principle songwriter, or a "democratic" effort, I think they ALL deserve all the credit in the world. Long live The Beach Boys...

I say EVERY BBs album from 63 to 73 was/is killer, the only weak album in those years was Friends...little bird MADE that album but even bruce said it was weak.

So Tough wasn't a "side project" as said b4 but it was like an alter ego of the group experimenting w the new sound they established w blondie & ricky...being that every BB album had twelve cuts w a couple exceptions So Tough was six group songs and two outtakes from Dennis's shelved first solo project; Holland was SO MANY things though- the FULL representation of the ricky/blondie sound, the last solid group effort and the bookend of the BBs as an album making entity in the industry. Make sense?

In reverse, when I was a kid I thought every Jan & Dean song was a Beach Boys song. 

Also, I always thought that Grand Funk Railroad's "Loco-motion" was definitely the Beach Boys. 

still not convinced. 

thats cuz brian and jan collaborated.

So Tough to me is very weak except Marcella and bits&pieces of other cuts but I always liked Holland, the last worthwhile BBs lp. Sail on Sailor classic, California is quite catchy...but it cant be ignored that Brian was hardly involved after Sunflower, 15bO was good for what it is but Love you is very unique, great tunes.

I mean songs written for the album vs songs from previous years that were rehashed for said new lp.

Agreeing or not, history is history and theres different ways to categorize albums: studio, live, compilation etc. Contradict it or not the BBs ran outta material in the mid 70s and thus putting out cover albums, outtakes etc.

Yeah all the orig songs were old, back home from 62/3.

See I dont get the "fun in the sun" stereotype crap...you can say that any band had a niche then, the BBs had the striped shirts,  the beatles had the mod getup of the suits and moptops..

Ok so it was later 76 and not early that tomboy, come go, peggy sue and the track for diane... MIU, Light album and KTSA were just as much hodgepodges as 20/20 is all I mean.

Beach Boys definitive diary, big blue book with all recording sessh documented.

Ha! Now I know youre joking if youre telling me to listen to led zeppelin...I mean cmon.

Was That same song the only song written newly for 15 big ones or was it an old song like back home and all the others?