key word for me is INSPIRED! if brian is into this and was motivated to rock out, with or without jeff I'm happy and can't wait to hear this!

rumor down in nashville has it that RJR is a new rocker! its a song about jeff beck's collection of 32 deuce  coupes. much of it  was recorded during the jeff beck sessions or at least inspired by those sessions. al may have sung on the demo, but brian is now singing the lead alone!

Thomas works here in Nashville a ton. He's a producer in the traditional sense of the word. Record companies pay  big $$$$ to him to keep projects in line and moving forward. From the  times I've been in a room with him he has a good  music sensibility. He can play , sing, read music, etc. It's pretty hard to to B S Him musically. The studio musicians really like him. He's smart enough to not try and interject himself where he isn't needed i.e. he knows when to hire this person or that person to get the sound that the artist wants. As they used to say he has a great Rolodex.  So at any moment if Brian wanted a certain sound or performance  that Brian or Thomas could not get themselves , I would think that person or instrument was an easy phone call away. Even though any musician in the world would drop everything to work with Brian, I'm not sure outside of his own band, Brian would necessarily know who to call to get a particular vibe these days. I read Brian's book and agree with you that Brian seems to be very comfortable working with him. I also want to say that for a really big guy, he DOES have a very calming kind of voice. Maybe just the opposite of Brian's Dad. I've never heard Thomas ever raise his voice or yell at anybody the way I've seen some producers work. He really doesn't have to. When I've seen him in the studio , he's  sometimes kind of like  someones body guard who is hanging out in the session but happens to have perfect pitch and good ideas! Another observation, he's kind of a smart ass and he really cuts it up with the players down here, who can also be very funny and sharp tongued.  I will disagree slightly with you. My read on Brian's conundrum working on Imagination is as follows; Maybe Brian was a little disappointed in himself. Maybe he got a little complacent working with Thomas. In the end if he saw that the train kept rolling down the track without him he was mad at himself for not contributing more. Maybe musicians  were booked at a certain time and Brian was late. Knowing the costs of the musicians prompted Thomas to start the session without Brian and when it still sounded good to Brian it made him reflect inwardly. 100% theory. Maybe Brian thought  that  he could have made it better , but maybe it sounded pretty good to him, and maybe his retroactive  competitive side took over. I certainly didn't read anything as such with regard to TWGMTR or NPP. So maybe now they have better timing together?? How many records have the two of them done now? 6? Over 20 or more years?

quote author=♩♬ John Lemon ♯♫♩ link=topic=24451.msg592598#msg592598 date=1476239185]

This argument discounts voters who find his opponent utterly corrupt and equally disgusting (which I'm sure you attribute to misogyny), and have determined him to be the slightly lesser of two evils.

This belongs in the sandbox, but...

some of us find them both detestable and are not voting for either.

AGREE!!!!
 I have been a fan of this site for quite awhile but always been too nervous to state my opinion. I am only in my early 20's, a huge Brian fan and I'd hate to see politics creeping into our wonderful music reality of Brian Wilson. The TV is on constantly at our house and I happily put my head phones on to listen to Pet sounds to escape the crazy politics in our world. Can we please get back to the music? Now that I have officially posted my first response I'm anxious to get a real discussion going.

[/quote]

quote author=♩♬ John Lemon ♯♫♩ link=topic=24451.msg592598#msg592598 date=1476239185]

This argument discounts voters who find his opponent utterly corrupt and equally disgusting (which I'm sure you attribute to misogyny), and have determined him to be the slightly lesser of two evils.

This belongs in the sandbox, but...

some of us find them both detestable and are not voting for either.

 I have been a fan of this site for quite awhile but always been too nervous to state my opinion. I am only in my early 20's, a huge Brian fan and I'd hate to see politics creeping into our wonderful music reality of Brian Wilson. The TV is on constantly at our house and I happily put my head phones on to listen to Pet sounds to escape the crazy politics in our world. Can we please get back to the music? Now that I have officially posted my first response I'm anxious to get a real discussion going.

[/quote]

Its pretty standard practice here in Nashville to equally split the publishing as a result of ANY contribution. We have a saying "add a word split a third"  It kind of keeps things sane. Thats why second engineers like myself NEVER blurt out even the most obvious suggestions unless asked, which we never are. I've been in many a session where i've thought of the lyric in my head before the band or lyricist. If i were to mention it, I would probably never work again with that artist. Sometimes i think i've even come up with better solutions. In any event, i think that Mike deserves to be credited equally with the other writers. If John Lennon came up with the guitar lick to Day Tripper and Paul wrote the entire balance of the song,  who could argue that Lennon didn't deserve 50%. Thats  why those two split EVERYTHING 50 50. In the case of Kokomo, who is to say that the Aruba, Jamaica line isn't the hook that made the song a hit?

I'm not sure how, apparently incorrectly, referring to my least favorite track on NPP is some kind of slur against Brian, Melinda, Joe Thomas, etc.   I've been very complimentary of the album as a whole, bar two songs.  


A criticism of an album, or any aspect of the album (ie. a song, lyrics, a lead vocal, guitar lick, etc) does not always equal a criticism of the artist.  Anybody on here who had anything critical to say about NPP, including myself, bought the album, listened to it, and care about because we're fans of Brian Wilson.  

Seconded.

Actually I wasn't referring to anything that you had said. I was simply complimenting Guitar fool for trying to get the train back on the tracks by defining EDM. But now that it seems i may have touched a nerve. Let me point out the following  text from Wikipedia about  No Pier Pressure......." No Pier Pressure is the 11th studio album by Brian Wilson. released April 7 2015 on Capitol Records. Peaking at 28 on The US Billboard 200"    SO FAR ACCURATE...... Next is what I do not understand...."The album received mixed reviews which largely  criticized its adult contemporary arrangement , ( by whom outside this message board?)  production and auto tune directions which were allegedly at the behest of co producer Joe Thomas...."  ( also by whom outside this message board? )  Ive talked to a hundred people in Nashville about this record. Ive never heard any of those comments. And while Nashville doesn't define the world, Im sure that it is a pretty good representation of the musical cross section of america. So words from this board DO have quite an impact on Brian's legacy. This is Wikipedia!  When you say that these and  comments like this does not equal to  criticism of the artist , I would say , you  are incorrect. Im not at all sure who writes the bi lines in Wikipedia, but that certainly seems to me like criticism of the artist. It had to be influenced by the numerous claims on this board......The endless inferences that people are secretly auto tuning vocals came from THIS Message board!   Many of us  outsiders have read direct  quotes from the guest artists like Kacey  M that Brian stacked her vocals Numerous times. These quotes are in real magazines who tend to avoid sensationalist claims in fear of actually getting sued. Yet we don't seem to believe them!  Im not sure  how Brian's publicity team corrects this, but I would sure try....... . As for the mixed reviews, Wiki seems to select three reviews including this Pop Matters guy. Isn't it a little sad that when the world outside this message board reads about NPP, they read mostly slurs and accusations based on conjecture? Much of the Wiki page and much of the early days on this message board were driven by this auto tune b s. We gloss  past the fact that the album actually debuted at #28! Im guessing  pretty good for a guy in his 70's, the rest of the description is polluted by inferences from three reviewers who obviously have an anti guest collaborator  or co producer agenda. So I applaud folks like Guitar Fool for defining and pointing the arrow in the right direction, because I am sure that if the members of this post shut down some of those conspiracy theories, they would have never reached WIKI.  BTW  who  actually does write the Wiki page accounts? And Im all for  opinions  such as ......I don't like the way Brian's vocals are sounding these days, or I would have liked to see xyz as a collaborator, instead of Zooey instead of ........ it must be someone else's idea to put Sebu on the record because Brian would never choose to allow his songs to be produced that way if he had a choice!

Thank you for taking the time to educate. Although it  seems to me that the actual use of  terms like  EDM, Disco, Slick, synthetic horns etc, when relating to the albums production  style are actually meant as not so subtle slurs aimed at The label, Melinda, Joe Thomas, Sebu, the other guest artists ,etc. Im only a part time visitor to this site,  but the impression that I get is that there is a  prevailing theory  shared by some  that Brian would have never actually thought of  ever doing  any of these things himself, left to his own device.  Only when working with Andy Paley and Scott Bennett can we be assured that Brian's actual brush strokes make it to the canvas. Even  when there seem to be obvious examples of  Brian's trademark  production  style on NPP,  such as a great moving pick bass line with tons of echo on it, the reviewer ( or again supposedly the reviewers) infer that it was probably one of the aforementioned interlopers trying to rip off one of Brian's old techniques. Techniques from the good old days before Brian was dragged to the studio and tied down while various handlers auto tune his vocals and force him to work with cruel and nefarious pretend singers like Zooey  Deschanel. Singers who Brian could not possibly have ever heard of before let alone actually like.  Zooey   has  done some pretty amazing cover versions  of Brian's songs. But  according to the this theory, Brian couldn't possibly have been flattered by that, or think she has a cute voice. Or watched her very popular show on TV, or seen any of her movies with his kids. Her collaboration  and the others had to be a bad idea conjured up by some label suit.  While I am at it, I also find the criticism of the lyrics on NPP another not so subtle attempt to dis credit or slur the album.  Specifically the albums collaborators. It's  as if there was meant to be  some hidden lyrical genius the rest of us are missing on TLOS .   "Goin Home  Im Goin Home Back to the place where I belong Found piece of mind one piece at a time."  Or  on the Paley sessions  " Some guy walked by hit me in the side Elbow is the thing that keeps me satisfied" .  Brian if you are reading this, I applaud your continued enthusiasm, your quirky lyrics, and the fact that at 75 you are not still wearing the same production sweater that you wore in 1965. You use different collaborators for different reasons and i enjoy listening to  all of your efforts without prejudice!

If Im not mistaken Salvo Sound & Vision is a B M G worldwide label. I believe that  Thomas is  an  exec  at B M G . I would guess that a U S release won't be far behind…...

http://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

As previously noted, Billboard changed their procedure for ranking albums on the top 200.  If you want to compare NPP to previous Beach Boy and Brian Wilson works, the Billboard album sales chart would be a more appropriate comparative analysis.  This chart is album sales only.  I think what Billboard did is confusing at best by allowing streaming to count towards chart position.  I guess they're just trying to stay with the times.

Do we know, by any actual source, how much Thomas has had to do with the production/mix of this album?

So we have identified Thomas as the auto tune guy? Really? TWGMTR was executive produced by Mike Love. Produced by Brian Wilson.  I guess Thomas is the guy that steals the tracks in the middle of the night, gets no production credit and auto tunes the vocals? That makes sense!  All while Mike and Brian are in the studio together writing Little Deuce Coupe Part II !  Seriously, Ive read in several recording mags that as guy named Siedleman is touting that he recorded Brian or The Beach Boys. He goes in to great detail about what microphones he is using etc. Whats his story?

nice thanks..... now this song HAS autotune..at least on Kacey's voice it does..  

Sorry, my friend, you are completely wrong.  I work at a recording studio here in Nashville.  Kacey, according to reliable sources, said that Brian worked on her vocal for several hours until she got it perfect, and then had her multitrack her voice at least 5 times to get that sound.  Also, according to her, it was just her and Brian in the studio along with an engineer when she laid the track down.  One might conclude that since Kacey doesn't normally multitrack her vocals and Brian was working with her alone, either the engineer in the room forced him to record it that way, or it was his own idea.  We really should be better informed when we make definitive statements such as yours.

So were you there while the song was being mixed? Definitive "this has autotune!" statements may be overboard, but so is "you're completely wrong!"

I for one am finding it odd that all of a sudden autotuneish-sounding stuff is being explained away by "it's multitracked!" Now, let me back up. I'm not saying I find it odd that listeners are making this assertion. I think, and this is JUST A THEORY, that double tracking (or more) a lead vocal could be used to sort of take the edge off that autotune sound.

Double tracking a lead vocal is obviously a very old method. I'm also willing to stipulate to the fact that double tracking can give an autotune-ish effect to a voice, and I will *also* stipulate to the fact that previous uses of autotune can cause listeners to start assuming or waiting to hear it on the next song/album from an artist, and power of suggestion can go a long way.

But, given how WIDESPREAD the use of autotune-type plug-ins are, and the fact that they HAVE been used by some of the same folks working this new album, as well as the fact that some stuff *does* at least *sound* similar to an autotune effect; these things all tell me it's not far fetched to think that perhaps it has been used here and there to some degree. That doesn't preclude the artists from having done a million takes in the studio, nor does it preclude them from singing it as perfectly as they possibly can. It's not uncommon for a perfectly fine singer and a perfectly fine performance to have autotune gobbed all over their voice.

The mixture of better autotune (again, we're using autotune as a generic term for digital pitch correction plug-ins), a lighter hand on the autotune, then double or tripling he voice, and the mixing it, could take the edge off something like the robo voice heard on parts of TWGMTR.

News flash: We're never going to find out how much, if any autotune has been used. Are there a bunch of examples of artists admitting they use autotune?

So I don't think we should assume anything. But the mere accusation or question of whether autotune has been used should not be meant with an indignant tone.

This new tune sounds fine. It's the most "autotune-ish" sounding thing I've heard off the new album so far. Seriously, at this stage not everyone who suggest autotune might have been used are attacking the album, or the artists. It's like when your favorite band or singer does something you don't like on the track. Like when Al sticks a spoken-word intro on something, or when Mike has to namecheck old BB songs when he writes new lyrics, or when Clapton has to use a bright-sounding Strat on some song that needs a Les Paul and a Marshall stack. It doesn't necessarily make me hate the song. It's just a slight momentary "ah man, I could have done without that".

I'm also open to new "non-autotune" theories. Here's one: Young singers, especially *very* young singers, are now growing up hearing a lot of autotune. Maybe it's not insane to wonder if maybe young singers are using inflections and styles that emulate a bit of that autotune sound, and/or emulate the sound that our brains associate with autotune, and then it all starts sounding the same.

I was not at the mix of course. Down here in Nashville we pride ourselves in pristine non altered recordings. Kacey is a killer musician. If she was at the mixes i highly doubt if she would allow even  Brian to auto tune her voice, especially if she spent hours recording it over and over again more than 5 times.  i don't know about previous albums who what when , nor do i care. we will never know. I think that not saying anything at all is not equal to an accusation such as this thrown at a wonderful singer. The accusation is far more damaging than my response. I can think of many hurtful and libelous things someone could write about another person. If someone were called a thief for example saying the person is not does not carry equal weight. But i will agree with you that my choice of words should have been as follows. I would highly doubt that Kacey would have allowed Brian to not only make her sing the lead vocal perfectly five or more times and then stack all of the vocals together, and then auto tune them in the mix. My God at some point don't you think she, her managers or label would have said stop? And once again I cannot imagine Brian having anything to do with it either. Can we please now get back to what a great song and performance these wonderful musicians have given us? Please!

Sounds good, but again a little too familiar in places.  Sting's "All This Time" anyone?

Not in the slightest. Not your "Greatest American Hero" one either.

Couldn't agree with you more.  Not in the slightest.  Greatest American Hero??? 

Kacey is a multiple grammy winner, a quality artist, and this song is amazing.  Great collaboration.

nice thanks..... now this song HAS autotune..at least on Kacey's voice it does..  

Sorry, my friend, you are completely wrong.  I work at a recording studio here in Nashville.  Kacey, according to reliable sources, said that Brian worked on her vocal for several hours until she got it perfect, and then had her multitrack her voice at least 5 times to get that sound.  Also, according to her, it was just her and Brian in the studio along with an engineer when she laid the track down.  One might conclude that since Kacey doesn't normally multitrack her vocals and Brian was working with her alone, either the engineer in the room forced him to record it that way, or it was his own idea.  We really should be better informed when we make definitive statements such as yours.

See, it's all how it's used. It can be obvious, or very hard to notice. Also, there are so many things that sound like it to the untrained ear.

These days, it's pretty easy to get (legal) free plug ins , thankfully!


[/quote

I appreciate the time it took for you to post this example. I happen to think that many folks who are responding to the compressed sound of Al's voice  or the production in general are reacting to the MP3 quality of I Tunes. The Brian Team likely recorded this album at a 48 or 96k sample rate.  24 bit. When they master a CD the bit rate drops from 24 to 16, the sample rate drops from 48k to 44.1k. When they then turn this into an MP3 for delivery on I Tunes or Google it is compressed again.The computers spitting out  the digital information arbitrarily cancels out information that it deems to large and not needed. You cannot fit all of the original sonic  information digitally. Many kids today CANNOT tell the difference because they are listening on ear buds.  That is why many of todays records have such a hyped bass, because while we may be   used to listening  on huge speakers with full range of frequency response maybe 40 hz  to 16khz nowadays the whole daisy chain is reduced to speaker the size of a dime. I can't for the life of me imagine that Brian or Joe Thomas are intentionally adding any of this compression. Nor do I believe that they are mixing for ear buds. Or listening on I Tunes. Maybe they should. I work at a studio in Nashville, we make an MP3 compressed version of our mixes and listen again and then some of the producers compensate. Some absolutely detest the format and WILL NOT compensate. The rap producers mix to BEATS Headphones since they are so popular. Simply not the audience that  Brian and his team probably consider, I will be ordering my vinyl today. I am sure it will not be as compressed.

Yet it was only a few years ago that Brian produced TWGMTR. Maybe that was MOR-ish too, but I don't remember a lot of people complaining about the production.

They most definitely did. And on all of the same points -- instrumentation, vocal processing, etc. It was muted somewhat by the excitement that everyone had at seeing all the guys back together as a coherent unit.

Anyone who can produce songs like "Shelter", "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone" doesn't need a co-producer, even though he might want one, and want Joe Thomas in particular.

Point taken -- except that each one of those songs was co-written by Joe. I've come to think Joe's greatest skill is actually his songwriting with Brian. He's gotten stuff out of the man -- songs like "Lay Down Burden" and the suite on TWGMTR -- that few others have managed since the 70s (giant exception made for Scott Bennett and "Midnight's Another Day).

I agree

O'Hagen's statement is certainly interesting, but it says a lot more about him than Joe Thomas or Brian Wilson.

Who on Earth seriously thinks that modern-day -- as in, the last 30 years-plus -- Brian has any interest in being an avant garde pop artist?

Joe's perspective on Brian sounds much more on point, from both a personal and commercial standpoint.

I couldn't agree more. and furthermore I don't believe Brian ever really did have any interest in being avant g arde. Except for Smile and the fact that Pet Sounds was very ahead of it's time. I certainly wouldn't call the bulk of Brian's work avant g arde. O'Hagens comments aside about Thomas and Duece Coupe which I don't understand, I think it is O'Hagen who is romanticizing his own wishes or opinions about how he visualizes HIMSELF working with Brian. Just like that girl or guy that some sit in high school dreaming about. You can visualize your house , kids and whole life with the person. The only problem is they ARE going out with Joe Thomas, or Andy Paley or Scott Bennett and NOT YOU !  I personally think Brian may actually like to hang out with these guys. I've never read an interview where Brian mentioned being influenced by O'Hagen. And I certainly don't see the Brian Wilson of the last 20 years laying on the floor with Joe Thomas, smoking a joint and recording vocals.  Auto Tuned or not. Who would help either one of them get up off the floor? Maybe they could get O'Hagen to help them up!

[TLOS]

THIS ALBUM IS GOING TO BE BRIAN'S BEST RELEASE IN HIS SOLO CAREER.  I WILL BET.   

Posted by someone who has evidently never heard TLOS.

Actually, I have, and the spoken word parts hurt the album a lot.  The A-Side is not very well sequenced in my opinion compared to the B-Side.   

Your opinion was rendered invalid the moment you posted what is above in caps.

Am I the only one to notice that every time there are groups of positive comments about this new album that certain "old guard" members of this board feel that they have to set the record straight and get everyone into silly negative discussions about who's holding Brian hostage forcing him to use instruments he doesn't want to use, pro tools plugins, and the like, or just generally accepting the fact that because someone likes this new music doesn't mean that they don't like Brian's older solo material.  I'm a music fan, and participate in several music message boards, and I've rarely seen the likes of this.  Just because I happen to like Led Zeppelin IV doesn't mean that everybody who likes III is a complete idiot.  I love what I hear so far and I'm not afraid to say it.  Its almost as if certain contributors think they can bully others into changing their mind.  I like Lucky Old Sun and I like what I'm hearing here, and it shouldn't mean I have to choose between the two.  Like somebody said before, thank God Brian is still creating music well into his 70s.  Someday that may not be the case.

A lovely, low-key tune. Between this and "Our Special Love," you can definitely see an approach that BW is taking to at least some of the NPP songs -- simple verse-chorus structures (common in his recent work), with a lot of cool vocal arranging ideas. The backing track is far more organic sounding than Imagination, too, even if some of Joe's touches remain.

I'm beginning to suspect that we're going to get an album of meticulously arranged, carefully sung pop miniatures. I would be excited by that! But it's definitely not Carl and the Passions, which Joe referred to at one point in the sessions.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions. We haven't heard the Blondie material yet. I was in Vegas and the Blondie song with Al and Brian sounded more like Carl and the Passions. In fact they even did Hold On Dear Brother with the guy from fun. Maybe we should wait to hear more. I agree that this track sounds more organic, although why does everyone assume that less organic is always Thomas idea? They just played  the Dave Matthews Weekend On The Rocks  Soundstage on TV. That was a Thomas Production also. No auto tune no overdubs. Very organic. Can you Imagine trying to auto tune Dave Matthews? Or Umphrey's Mcgee? Or Tom Petty? All very organic shows that Thomas has produced. I checked after seeing that the Vegas show was  going to be a Soundstage. This auto tune thread  sounds like old news to me. Im agreeing with some of the others that maybe they are just double or triple tracking the vocals. or maybe more. Its a sound. These days with pro tools you can line up the timings of each track so sometimes what you perceive as auto tune is just three perfectly aligned tracks that blend together. How do we know that MR. Perfectionist Brian doesn't Love Pro Tools? And why is it that if its a good idea it must be Brian's and if its a bad idea it must be Thomas forcing Brian against his will to screw things up. As for the chords , I hear The Night was so Young and Lady Lindas altro also. so isn't that just Brian and whomever his co writer is at the time picking a great 1 3 4 5 or 1 6 3 4 5 chord progression and saying HEY LETS TRY THIS AGAIN!

Those guitar licks have no place in a Brian Wilson production.

I completely disagree. I love David Marks playing! It sounds to me like a Fender Telecaster, very Ventures meets  David Marks. It reminds me of a very blues oriented David Marks,who used to play guitar in The Beach Boys when he was like 11. And now he's lived his life and has an actual style. I think he fits very well! Great job Brian including him on your new album.

Suits probably don't want people to know how good the show actually was before Joe Thomas gets his fuckin' robot singing hands all over it.....

It was a very good show with very good performances even though BDW did not sing some lines at certain moments. I'd wager someone is now trying to figure out if they can pitch-shift his silence.

so, Im confused. On This Brian Wilson/ Beach Boys fan site, where the only reason any of us are commenting at all is because we owe all of these guys a big thank you for their music and contribution ESPECIALLY BRIAN !!!!!!. Someone ( Stack o Tracks) is  suggesting that the T V Producers should ? YOUR OPTION , Show the world, PBS and whomever else is going to air this, that Brian did not sing the part he was supposed to, forgetting  that even  thru all of his hardships at 72 years old he may deserve to be cut just a LITTLE slack…..THAT the only HONEST THING TO DO would show every mistake in it's entirety so that when Brian sees the show he can be reminded how he  TOTALLLY F**KED  UP…… Rather than maybe take the  part in question from a rehearsal or something and present to the world a truly enjoyable concert that Brian could be proud of and at peace with until the day he dies. Which  probably will be pretty soon if he has to re live every mistake he made during the concert, WHICH I ATTENDED, and there were not many. It was a wonderful show! and the fact that  two of the guys( Brian and Al )were a combined  145 years old ! was a F**king MIRACLE! And as for this dispicable Joe Thomas Bashing , Unless Joe F**king Thomas was elected the  SINGLE Benevolant Dictator of not only Brian's and the Beach Boys  last few albums , and if you  don't understand the meaning it means the ONE WHO HAS  BEEN GIVEN ALL OF THE POWER! then lay off the guy!  There are many decision makers that weigh into the making of any of these projects, and I am certain that any decision on auto tune, or overall mix has been vetted and opinionized by a gaggle of folks. INCLUDING BRIAN! who has to have heard it at some time and said WOW! I like the way this sounds! I have been lucky enough to have been at this show and it was Beautiful! Sounded Great Looked Great and yes it was live TV, it had a few rag tag moments , and that i hope are tastefully edited to present an accurate description of what the 2000 or so lucky enough to attend got to see, PURE MAGIC! 

Bruce has always reminded me of a record producer turned band member. He spent  a lot of time down here in Nashville over the years. Although he  is quite a self promoter, he is very talented. The studio folks down here all respect him. I am told he also is a very good piano/keyboard player. I have seen some other posts questioning his playing ability. I think those comments are un founded.

If Joe Thomas is such a great guy, and if he's worthy of not being regarded with "contempt" in spite of what he did with the C50 live album, then why did Melinda Wilson once sue him? It wasn't just a suit about business matters either, it had charges about Joe trying to make a name for himself off the name of Brian Wilson. And Joe Thomas countersued Melinda Wilson, making some pretty nasty charges about her and making it way more personal than she did in her suit against him. Just wondering how so many fans of Brian don't find it weird that they're working together again and why it's not logical to have some residual mistrust of the man. That, and the fact that "Imagination" is such an Adult Contemporary style of album. Though lots of fans like that album, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I believe that I said he seemed like a nice guy! I know nothing of his problems with Melinda. I met the gentleman one time. He had a very nice jump shot. Seemed like an athlete. He was working with another artist. I spent a  few days listening  as an assistant in the studio. Brian Wilsons name never came up. He was there the next month with Stevie Nicks. I did not work on that session. All I said is that the guy seems to be respected as none of these artists are slouches. Neither are Dave Matthews or Tom Petty.  I used to work at a pretty big studio in Nashville. He was always there. How do you make a name for yourself off of Brian Wilson anyway? History is history. You either work with people or you don't . You either get hired back or you don't. In Brians case it looks like he was hired back. You are kind of making my point though. If he was sued by Melinda, which I did not know, then i doubt if he has any real authority with Brians day to day decisions. So either you can blame the guy for one or the other, but my point is, and getting off of Thomas specifically, it seems that everyone on this site blames either him, or Mike Love or management or Jeff Foskett or someone for everything they do not like. Brian would have to be involved in some of these decisions good or bad? No? Including how the albums sound.

As for questions being pointed, that's as in relevant, i.e., why does the live album sound so bloody awful ?

There may be something you have not considered. And mind you this is just a somewhat educated guess. How about the live album sounds so bad because there was pitch correction already put on by the live  front of house sound mixer?  The audience could never tell because of the ambient noise in the stadium. And It would sound great coming through the live speakers.Its a much more likely scenario. And very typically done these days. If you look in  the live mixing booth many times they will have several channels of pitch correction  as outboard gear. Or these days maybe just a plug in. Then whomever was recording  the show would have to deal with that  sound as an output, since he or she is probably recording  the output of either the front of house board or the monitor console. That would at least to me answer many questions. Do really think that lets say Tom Petty would ever allow any producer to pitch correct him?  I also do not think that it is any producers wish to use any kind of pitch correction except for a specific sound aka Cher or some of the other artists mentioned. That certainly to me does not seem like the case. Its also very difficult to add pitch correction to live albums anyway. The amount of leakage in the open mics would register on the pitch correction device. so if there was a guitar bass or horn note on the open live mic it would totally confuse the tuning device. The more i write about this the more I am convinced that there was possibly pitch correction already on some of the Beach Boys before anyone mixed the live album.

[Sunflower]

I'd love to sit down with Joe Thomas (yeah, like that's ever going to happen) and put a few pointed questions to him, in particular "exactly how long after Jeff Beck bailed on the collaboration did you start calling the likes of Deschanel and Del Ray ?"

Don't get me wrong, I'm as fascinated as any of you to hear the new album, but to say its had an... interesting genesis would be on a par with saying George Best was a fair footballer. That said, Sunflower was a distinctly compromised and mongreliod product, and that wasn't exactly shabby, was it ? 

Knowing what Jeff Beck and his band's sets consisted of and sounded like on the tour, and considering no one in Beck's band really sings since Beck's guitar is the lead melody instrument, I'd say it was an interesting experiment for sure but ultimately apart from "Danny Boy" which was excellent...how far could they go with it? Would it consist of Brian's lead vocals trading off with Beck's guitar playing? Would Brian's songs which are heavy on melody, arrangement, and vocal harmonies have blended well with what is basically a modern fusion-jazz combo? Would a small backing band known mostly for playing instrumental jazz-fusion have worked in this context playing across a whole album of Brian Wilson's songs? At some point maybe all parties simply looked at each other and said "it just ain't working".

Perhaps chalk it up to looking better on the drawing board than it ever could work as a whole album project.

It would probably be easier to sit down with Joe Thomas than you think. I was working at a studio in Nashville a few years ago while he was working on a Faith Hill record. He would never remember me, but he was a very nice guy.  Very low key.He and Faith  were going over string arrangements and discussing harmonies and arrangements on her Christmas album. He is extremely knowledgeable musical guy who works with a lot of high quality artists down there. This is a very musical town, and not all just country music. Thomas is always down here working . I would not think that he would consider himself one of Brians handlers. He seems too busy to be involved with the inside day to day details of Brian's career. He's been down  here with Tom Petty , Stevie Nicks , Dave Matthews and many others. None of whom are listed as duet partners on this album. So maybe he wasn't involved at all in the decision process. Aside from being an extremely intimidating looking guy, he did not seem like someone who needs to force his unwanted opinion on anyone, in fact quite the opposite. He spent most of his lunch time playing hoops  in the parking lot with those of us that worked at the studio. So maybe as usual the nay sayers are just looking once again to blame someone other than Brian for anything they do not like. As for the negative tone, I couldn't agree more. Please stop. Im an  outsider and seldom commenter but  just the word handler seems like a slap to Brian. Im sorry that i even used it in my response. I'd reserve that word  for the folks at Sea World. If you really revere the guy, meaning Brian, could we maybe use a more suitable word for his wife and other advisors?