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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 02:39:41 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer to listen to the Beach Boys in mono or stereo? on: July 06, 2014, 07:29:40 PM
Depends on the song.

Heroes and Villains - Stereo all the way



Yeah, H&V is way too muddy in mono
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Do you prefer to listen to the Beach Boys in mono or stereo? on: July 06, 2014, 06:53:10 PM
On iTunes, I bought a version of Smiley Smile that contains both the stereo and mono mixes of the songs. When I compared songs side by side, it was almost like listening to two different albums. The mono version was creepier and more distorted sounding, while the stereo version made the songs sound more cinematic, like songs Pixar would use if they ever made a horror movie.

Then I went back to the other albums. Pet Sounds needs to be in Stereo for everything to be heard. Same with Smile. Surfer Girl actually sounded phenomenal in Stereo, especially "Your Summer Dream".

The other 60s albums sounded good enough in mono.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums on: July 06, 2014, 10:34:23 AM
It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own.

Wasn't Mike against the smile songs?

I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink".

No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em.

He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least.

He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss.

Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley?

Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley.  I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material.

Years ago Cam posted a cool essay about how Smiley Smile was Smile.  I won't quite go that far, but I do feel it is one manifestation a few directions Brian was exploring with Smile.  The humor, for one, is certainly accentuated.  The simple arrangements are also an extension of the early "Vegetables" and solo "Surf's Up."  I wouldn't trivialize Smiley Smile so easily.  It lacks Van Dyke Parks' conceptual unity, but it is still a version of Smile.  It would even be fair to say it is Brian Wilson's version of Smile in 1967, as opposed to the Wilson/Parks version.  It has the humor and some of the sadness Brian puts in his music, but those emotions are not tied to any larger context as Van Dyke had done with the Smile lyrics.  Those who dismiss it cannot fully appreciate the Smile they think should have been released instead.


I wasn't dismissing it. I actually think Smiley Smile is better than SMiLE and Pet Sounds combined.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Never Learn Not To Love is criminally under-appreciated on: July 06, 2014, 05:03:04 AM
Charles Manson or not, I still find "Never Learn not to Love" to be a boring filler track.  It's definitely the only Dennis song I don't like.  

Cabinessence and Our Prayer really don't fit on 20/20.  And what were they thinking, putting Student Demonstration Time on Surf's Up?  

Is "criminally under appreciated" supposed to be a pun?
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums on: July 06, 2014, 04:56:47 AM
It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own.

Wasn't Mike against the smile songs?

I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink".

No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em.

He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least.

He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss.

Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley?

Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley.  I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums on: July 05, 2014, 12:41:31 PM
It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own.

Wasn't Mike against the smile songs?

I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink".
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums on: July 05, 2014, 09:57:18 AM
One part of the SMiLE mythos that confuses me is that fact that some SMiLE tracks made it onto albums between 1968-1971. Wasn't the SMiLE album cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs?  Did the songs grow on them after 1967? To be honest, I feel like they did it just to fill the albums. "Cabinessence" and "Our Prayer" really don't fit on 20/20.  The only one that felt right to use was "Surf's Up" on the album called Surf's Up.
8  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: I love the Beach Boys but... on: June 24, 2014, 06:07:06 PM
Not true but at least you didn't say the Beatles are better

i fuckin hate the beatles
9  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: I love the Beach Boys but... on: June 24, 2014, 05:22:12 PM
lol who the hell are the monks
10  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / I love the Beach Boys but... on: June 24, 2014, 04:54:51 PM
The Velvet Underground are better
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why aren't BB tunes on Mad Men more often? on: June 23, 2014, 07:35:13 PM
There is an important point being missed here, and it's part of the creative vision of the people who create the show. It's similar to Breaking Bad, the sorely missed Breaking Bad which along with Mad Men redefined the way television dramas are made and set the bar impossibly high for nearly every aspect of a TV show's creation, including the way music is selected and used.

Let me use the Breaking Bad example - The main force behind that show explained in an interview prior to the final season that he/they had been holding onto the song "Crystal Blue Persuasion" for just the right time in the story development and the plotlines. It was a natural choice - those who know the show will know what crystal blue meant to that show...so they could have placed that song literally anywhere in the series run. But they held it, and they used it for a season-finale montage that was brilliant, one of the best musical montages I've seen, ranking right up there with Mad Men in an early season which used Dylan's "Don't Think Twice It's Alright" in a terrific scene that was both high art and emotionally crushing. It's one of those rare scenes that i watch again and again, and it never loses a bit of impact. It's true art in television production.

Now to Mad Men. They paid a very large sum of money to use "Tomorrow Never Knows" in the season focused on the changes in the latter half of 1966. It was, again, a terrific use of music to tie in with the plot and the characters.

Mad Men banks on that, they feature songs that seem to fit perfectly with the action unfolding or about to unfold. "On A Carousel" this past season was an example.

"I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" was, to me, even better than Breaking Bad using "Crystal Blue Persuasion". The sound, the feel, the overall effect of how that song played under the scene was again *perfect*, I couldn't imagine a better choice.

Now, what if they had thrown in a bunch of Beach Boys songs in earlier seasons? Would it not, possibly, have watered down the effect of hearing that Pet Sounds track for the LSD scene?

Yes, the option is always there to use more of any band's music, including the Beach Boys.

If the AMC shows were not already known for being willing to spend extra, as in the case of the Beatles' song a *lot* extra, I might say it was financial. Some of it is, no doubt.

But at the same time, they make conscious, deliberate, and often brilliant decisions on when and how to place a specific song.

And they pay extra, too, in order to secure the rights to the original song, and not a soundalike as most major non-cable networks will do to trim the budget a bit.

Think of it as a creative choice, above all. I cannot see when or how placing even a few more Beach Boys songs would have improved the effect beyond the music that was chosen.

That's Mad Men. Back to Breaking Bad, again the series finale held onto the song "Baby Blue" until the very end, the last thing anyone heard on the entire run of the show. And it was, again, very deliberate, well-planned in advance, and above all *perfect*.

My 2 cents.  Smiley


I agree with both you & Ebb and Flow.  As great as Mad Men is, I think some 60s US culture was glossed over to give it a more drab NYC feeling.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why aren't BB tunes on Mad Men more often? on: June 23, 2014, 02:56:47 PM
I was too busy being a fanboy and screwing off in my stupid Sgt Peppers costumes to give a f***, you see.

lol butthurt
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why aren't BB tunes on Mad Men more often? on: June 23, 2014, 04:51:21 AM
Song rights cost a fortune to place in TV shows. That's why Mad Men tends to use a lot of obscure songs, they want to save money. They had to bust the piggy bank to feature the Beatles once or twice, and I'm sure the Beach Boys don't come cheap, either.  When they used a Beatle song in a particular episode, I read somewhere that it cost them over $100,000.  So, for the most part, they preferred to use more obscure British invasion bands like the Nashville Teens to provide era flavor when the show got to the mid-'60s, rather than pay the big bucks for bigger name bands of the era.

thanks for being the only one who gave me a straightforward and non condescending answer.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Why aren't BB tunes on Mad Men more often? on: June 22, 2014, 06:04:51 PM
Weren't the Beach Boys like the Beatles of America from 62 to 66?  SO why aren't there more of their songs on Mad Men, a show about US culture in the 60s?

I will admit, the use of "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" when Roger Sterling took acid was absolutely perfect.   Grin
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Whoa, Brian got fat quickly on: June 20, 2014, 07:46:00 AM
Seriously, seeing pictures of him in '62/'63 he looked pretty slim, then by '64 he was already chubby and it only got worse each year. Carl got a bit more chubby over the years too, but not as badly as Brian.

16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Happy birthday, Brian on: June 20, 2014, 07:44:04 AM
Happy birthday and thank you Brian!
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Did Dennis really marry his second cousin? on: June 19, 2014, 06:06:44 AM
Or, Mike Love's daughter?  As much as I love Dennis, I have to say that's just wrong.  Huh
18  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Why are the Beatles the one band people don't allow you to dislike? on: June 05, 2014, 04:14:42 PM
Whenever someone figures out I don't like the Beatles, they always go out of their way to call me an asshole and go on a rant about how they 'revolutionized all music forever'. I especially love when they say "the beatles promoted peace and love in the world, jerk!!!!!!'. (give me a break, they're a fuckin rock band.)

Seriously, I don't have to like the beatles, so go screw off in your stupid Sgt Peppers costumes ya fanboys.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re-recorded SMiLE tracks... on: May 25, 2014, 08:55:49 PM
Hi guys, so I just discovered SMiLE this year, and I have to say, I really love all the albums that came between 1967-1971, because they all have SMiLE tracks on them plus many great hidden gems.  I was wondering, are the SMiLE tracks on these albums re-recorded or just lifted from their original sessions?  For example, Our Prayer & Cabinessence on 20/20, Surf's Up on well, the album Surf's Up, and even H&V on Smiley Smile.  From what I hear, Surf's Up does sound totally new in 1971, but was it close to that in 1967?  Cabinessence is really similar on the Smile Sessions and 20/20.  

Then there's tracks where Smile songs were changed, like how "Child Is the father of the Man" became a part of "Little Bird", and "Workshop" was tacked onto the end of "Do It Again".  Also, "Aren't You Glad" sounds a bit like Holidays. So were Surf's Up, Our Prayer, Cabinessence, and even Cool Cool Water newly recorded for their respective albums?
20  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: What video games are you playing right now? on: May 22, 2014, 08:18:14 PM
I'll be getting Watch Dogs too...my interest in games has steadily declined over the past few years, but WD looks really fun.

New games aren't as good as the old ones...

Which is why I just bought a PS2 and a Dreamcast, and soon to get an N64  Grin Grin Grin LOL

Watch Dogs might change that though...
21  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: Pet Peeves on: May 22, 2014, 07:59:55 PM
"I listen to everything except country and rap"


^ It's such a pet peeve of mine when people say that
22  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / What video games are you playing right now? on: May 22, 2014, 07:57:47 PM
So I just bought a brand new PS2 (the Toy Story 3 Bundle) and the games i got for it are:

GTA Trilogy
Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance
Max Payne 1 & 2
Shadow of the Colossus
Ico
Reservoir Dogs
TMNT

Also on my Xbox 360 I'm finishing up Max Payne 3

and I am so darn excited for Watch Dogs on my PS4 this Tuesday!!!    3D
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / . on: May 22, 2014, 05:08:45 PM
.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: where can I find older Smile bootlegs? on: May 19, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
are pre- TSS bootlegs available on cd or something
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: where can I find older Smile bootlegs? on: May 19, 2014, 08:04:59 PM
sorry I'm new here...
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