[Or, maybe children's albums, like Raffi.]

To be upfront, I don't think any of these people , individually, would have been in a band at all, if they hadn't formed the Beach Boys. Al and Brian were in college studying for degrees. Carl was still in high school with typical teen aspirations. Mike and Dennis were joining the blue collar rat race. But, if we're talking about post SMiLE potential for careers outside of the band, that's another discussion.

So, considering them separately, in reverse order of potential and purely in my own opinion:

Mike: To go solo, Mike would have needed to create a voice of his own, apart from The Beach Boys. I'm not sure he really cared about that as much as he wanted to keep the band afloat.  Mike seems to completely identify as a Beach Boy. To join another band, he would need to team up with someone who needs a hook writer who can front a group in his particular style. That might not have been a great fit for other bands. These days,  I don't think there's anything really "natural" about Mike's abilities as a frontman. He's very studied and rehearsed and he uses the same gestures and jokes in every show. In fact, when someone else is singing the lines he's used to delivering (as in C50) he STILL does the hand gestures! Is he comfortable up there? Sure. But, he's not spontaneous. His act has been in rehearsal for 50 years and that's how he wants it.  Mike may play around with solo projects and he may want people to think more highly of his talent, but he is definitely in the right band.

Al: Alan's primary outside musical interest was in folk music, and if he had wanted to leave the group to pursue joining up with the Kingston Trio or some such band,  I think he could have.  I doubt he'd still be performing with them now, since the Beach Boys have far outlived the folk music trend.  Unfortunately, I don't think he would have had a massive solo career outside of a folk music niche. Or, maybe children's albums, like Raffi.  So, Al probably could have sung in a folk group, but he's better of having been in the Beach Boys.

Carl: Well, we know Carl had the vocal chops for a solo career, but his attempt at it didn't really yield much. Once again, you have to bring something to the public that the band can't. You have to find your own style and message. Carl's attempts to do that didn't quite click. I do think Carl could have lent his voice and guitar to other songwriters, or collaborated with a partner to get a career going outside of the Beach Boys, but he didn't really pursue that. As far as joining another band… Yeah. I think he had a talent,  skill set and personality that would have worked in other bands.  Was Carl in the wrong band? No. Could he have gone solo? Maybe. Could he have joined another band? definitely.

Dennis: Based purely on talent,  Dennis definitely found his musical voice and could have done solo work. But, talent or no talent, you have to deliver the album, you have to deliver it on time,  and you have to show up for the gigs. That's the business side of show business. I always suspected that Brian's initial reluctance to include Dennis in the band was because Dennis hadn't shown real interest in music and wasn't dependable in other things. Along the line, he developed the music. Not so much the follow through. So, could he have developed a solo career? Yeah. If he had applied himself to it. Could he have joined another band? Probably… if they could depend on him. But, if he could have done all of that, his Beach Boys experience might not have been quite so contentious and he might not have been so unhappy in the first place.  Was Dennis in the wrong band? No. Few other bands would have hired a second drummer just in case he decided not to show for a gig. Could he have gone solo? Not long term. His own hedonistic nature was against it.   Dennis had the talent, but he lacked discipline. And discipline is just as important to success as talent, looks and heart.  

Brian: This is tricky. Brian actually has gone solo;  but, given the choice in the years immediately surrounding Pet Sounds and SMiLE, I don't think young Brian Wilson would have chosen to be a solo artist, at all. The talent was certainly there, but I think young Brian only really wanted to be a producer. I think he would have been very happy producing a variety of talent, including the Beach Boys, and singing when he needed his own voice on the track. Brian always seemed most interested in creating the sounds, not performing them. Of course, young Brian Wilson's success depends on a mentally healthy young Brian Wilson.  SMiLE or no SMiLE, I think Brian was headed for trouble all along.  But, given mental health,  could he have gone solo? As a producer, yes; but, he was never really comfortable enough on stage to become a solo performer. After his break down and long absence, Brian's had to go the solo route to get back in the game. But, I think, at heart, he's still a producer. Was he in the wrong band? No. Could he  have been successful outside of the group? Probably. But, only if he stayed healthy.

As I look at this, I have come to the conclusion that these guys were all in the right band. As frustrating as they all found it as some time or another,  The Beach Boys were the only band that would have put up with all their individual issues. Maybe that's why none of them have really left.

You just took me back with Raffi
On topic: You have great insight, I appreciate your response.  This band is so interesting because they did a lot for the music industry together but yet there's so much stuff from them that we still haven't heard yet or songs (or albums) that didn't reach full potential.

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.

Absolutely! Shame that Dennis couldn't be coaxed or eased in with being more out front. I'm sure that people would have rather seen him than the lovester who looked more like their dad.

Ikr.  Ever stop to think why the camera panned on Dennis during Carl's guitar solos?

I wonder how the Beach Boys ever made it big with so many untalented members who couldn't rock.

You are my new God and I appreciate your existence.

Look at clips like the TAMI show and tell me who was getting the crowd wild.  Listen to some interviews and tell me who got the most responses from the crowd.  Watch that 1974 New Years Eve special, did their performance leave you feeling excited?   

Should also mention that at one point or another every member of The Beach Boys (With the exception of Blondie and Ricky, who were at the right place at the right time) was in the wrong group.

What group would Al be in otherwise? No offense to him personally, but it's not like he had the songwriting chops or household name brand of the Wilson's. Mike is largely talentless and lives off the brand name; no way hed ever want to be anything but a Beach Boy. I think everybody was held back and probably largely made miserable from the late '70s on. But I think Brian and Dennis are the only two who proved that they could have made it on their own if they had really set their minds to it. Carl did make two solo albums, but from what I've heard from just about every review I've seen is that they arent very good.

Some people are meant to go solo and others aren't.  Al definitely could've continued singing folk music with another group and Mike could've joined Jan and Dean.  The Beach Boys were/are considered a "rock group" but Dennis was the only one who really knew how to rock.  Carl was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and was a great guitar player, but his stage presence wasn't anything compared to Dennis behind the drums.  And Brian just wanted to write symphonies.  It's been discussed in other threads how being a frontman just comes naturally to Mike and that Dennis needed more confidence if he was to take on that role (his jokes were better than Mike's though that's for sure).

Should also mention that at one point or another every member of The Beach Boys (With the exception of Blondie and Ricky, who were at the right place at the right time) was in the wrong group.

You think Mike was in the wrong group?  Al for sure, he could've had his own folk band.

[it probably wouldve been just the motivation he needed.]

I understand where Mujan is coming from.  Of course, if Brian wanted to he could've done all of the vocals himself.  But of course, it wouldn't have been the same.  If the rest of the guys didn't provide vocals, then that would've been a Brian Wilson solo album (yet I've seen it stated many times that Pet Sounds was a Brian Wilson solo album featuring the BB).  Brian had and extraordinary gift that was recognized right away by him and everyone else, and I read in one of the books that the he/or the company was promoting him as a genius--and it got to the point where people thought the rest of the guys were his "puppets".  Dennis had to develop his gift (and earn the respect he got through those songs--and it wasn't until recent years where people finally realized that his talent was bigger than "O yea, he's the guy who wrote 'Forever'").  He on the other hand had a low self-esteem and having that would cause him to say "He's everything, we're nothing.  We're just his f*cking messengers." Man, I hate that quote because it's not entirely true.

Thank you. And for what it's worth, I feel the same way about Pet Sounds. SMiLE too.

I don't think it was so much low self esteem as much as hedonism, lack of motivation and rampant alcoholism/drug abuse which held Dennis back. Of course, when you're in a bad place like that, the support of those around you can make all the difference in the world. If someone he respected *cough*likeBrian*cough*had said "Hey Denny, I really liked POB. We really f***ed up not using more of your songs on the albums before. When's Bambu coming out, d'you think?" it probably wouldve been just the motivation he needed.

I agree.  Dennis had nothing but good things to say about his brother and Brian always got the support he needed from the rest of the guys (well idk about Mike).  I think though that in a lot of ways they were both very sensitive, Denny just didn't show it on the surface like Brian did.

[I Wanna Marry A Beatle]

Oh man. I've watched a little bit more of it tonight. It's TERRIBLE. The scene where Duke is in the phone booth pretending he's Ringo is the WORST English accent I've ever heard. Not London, Not Manchester, Not Liverpool. More like, Australian, Southern United States, and the worst Terry Thomas impression you can imagine all rolled into one and alternating every few words. I thought of Andrew (G. Doe) IMMEDIATELY and felt embarrassed to be American and "I" wasn't even there!

This thing is a train wreck I just can't look away from.

Good Lord....

Duke: "I'll prove I'm Ringo.  Yea yea yea yea"
Girls: AHAHAHAAAH
Me:   ...Seriously?

The longer this movie went on, the worst it got.  Yet, I can't look away either.

That proves he's Ringo alright! The only Beatle NOT singing on "She Loves You"!....hahahaha

Dig that awful "Beatles" song at the end!

https://www.sendspace.com/file/y2zc8l

Follow the bouncing Beach Ball  
________________________________________________

I Wanna Marry A Beatle

Yeah, Yeah Yeah YEAH!

We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want a hold of their hand, yeah yeah yeah YEAH!
John, Paul, George or Ringo too,
We love em all and any one will do,
One is good, but we'd rather have two.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want one of Ringo's rings, yeah yeah yeah YEAH!
Just like the gold one on his drummer hand,
We hope some day it'll be a wedding band,
Then he's sure to know we're his biggest fan.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Solo! (scream!)

We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want him please to sing, yeah yeah yeah YEAH!
Every day we'll just sit and stare,
And when he sings to us we'll be-a floatin' on air,
We're gonna run our fingers through his mop-top hair.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
Since we saw him standing there, yeah yeah yeah YEAH!
We'll never forget when he touched our glove,
To get it to him we had to push and shove,
and when he said to us "I Say, Don't Do That Luv".

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want to marry a Beatle Oooh!
We want to marry a Beatle Oooh! (Fade to screams)
________________________________________________

I'm afraid we're in this hell together retrokid!  

  one of the worst songs I ever heard!  And the girls in the audience were still screaming as if they were actually the Beatles 

Oh man. I've watched a little bit more of it tonight. It's TERRIBLE. The scene where Duke is in the phone booth pretending he's Ringo is the WORST English accent I've ever heard. Not London, Not Manchester, Not Liverpool. More like, Australian, Southern United States, and the worst Terry Thomas impression you can imagine all rolled into one and alternating every few words. I thought of Andrew (G. Doe) IMMEDIATELY and felt embarrassed to be American and "I" wasn't even there!

This thing is a train wreck I just can't look away from.

Good Lord....

Duke: "I'll prove I'm Ringo.  Yea yea yea yea"
Girls: AHAHAHAAAH
Me:  ...Seriously?

The longer this movie went on, the worst it got.  Yet, I can't look away either.

Poor Brian. Paramount enlists The Beach Boys to help give their awful film a boost, (even naming it after one of their songs) only to have them play second banana to The Beatles.

After the boys play Little Honda:

Selma: That group is pretty good, don't you think Duke?
Duke: Mmm...not bad.
Cynthia: We were thinking of hiring them for a show our sorority's gonna give.
Georgia: I think they're almost as good as The Beatles.
Duke: You must be kidding (laughs)...the boys would sure get a kick out of that.
Cynthia: What boys?
Duke: Huh?..oh nothing...you know, Paul, John, Ringo...The Beatles. (poor George...2nd class Beatle already!)

I love both groups, so please, no Beach Boys vs. Beatles stuff. It's just something I couldn't help noting.

"Little Honda" was the BEST part of the whole movie.  the rest of it is just stupid and pointless and has HORRIBLE acting in it. And remember the part with Arlene and Stew after "Lonely Sea"?

Arlene: Hey, wasn't that group nutting?
Stew: Well rhythmically speaking I'd say they were adequate, of course their choral structure could never be compared to that used by Beethoven or Bach.  When those men wrote symphonies they really...Arlene, what's the matter?
Arlene: Oh, nothing Stew I a...I was just looking at the moon.

if it had been me
Stew:...Jess what's the matter?
Me: Brian Wilson is a freakin genius that's what's the matter, and those stupid girls in the sorority don't recognize a good group when they see one! 

That makes more sense than what was in the movie!

Yea I know right!  Those scenes made me so mad.  It's not even worth watching after Little Honda, and that's just half of the movie right there.

I understand where Mujan is coming from.  Of course, if Brian wanted to he could've done all of the vocals himself.  But of course, it wouldn't have been the same.  If the rest of the guys didn't provide vocals, then that would've been a Brian Wilson solo album (yet I've seen it stated many times that Pet Sounds was a Brian Wilson solo album featuring the BB).  Brian had and extraordinary gift that was recognized right away by him and everyone else, and I read in one of the books that the he/or the company was promoting him as a genius--and it got to the point where people thought the rest of the guys were his "puppets".  Dennis had to develop his gift (and earn the respect he got through those songs--and it wasn't until recent years where people finally realized that his talent was bigger than "O yea, he's the guy who wrote 'Forever'").  He on the other hand had a low self-esteem and having that would cause him to say "He's everything, we're nothing.  We're just his f*cking messengers." Man, I hate that quote because it's not entirely true, yet people take it so literally.

He was in the right group for sure. But I wish he'd managed to get his solo career off the ground sooner.

Me too.  I'd say that the Wilson brothers should've broke away from the group in the late 60s early 70s.  They would've been FANTASTIC!  Denny sure learned a lot from Brian (Carl too), I wish they would've collaborated more.  If only their lives had been stable at the time I bet it would've worked out great.

Poor Brian. Paramount enlists The Beach Boys to help give their awful film a boost, (even naming it after one of their songs) only to have them play second banana to The Beatles.

After the boys play Little Honda:

Selma: That group is pretty good, don't you think Duke?
Duke: Mmm...not bad.
Cynthia: We were thinking of hiring them for a show our sorority's gonna give.
Georgia: I think they're almost as good as The Beatles.
Duke: You must be kidding (laughs)...the boys would sure get a kick out of that.
Cynthia: What boys?
Duke: Huh?..oh nothing...you know, Paul, John, Ringo...The Beatles. (poor George...2nd class Beatle already!)

I love both groups, so please, no Beach Boys vs. Beatles stuff. It's just something I couldn't help noting.

"Little Honda" was the BEST part of the whole movie.  the rest of it is just stupid and pointless and has HORRIBLE acting in it. And remember the part with Arlene and Stew after "Lonely Sea"?

Arlene: Hey, wasn't that group nutting?
Stew: Well rhythmically speaking I'd say they were adequate, of course their choral structure could never be compared to that used by Beethoven or Bach.  When those men wrote symphonies they really...Arlene, what's the matter?
Arlene: Oh, nothing Stew I a...I was just looking at the moon.

if it had been me
Stew:...Jess what's the matter?
Me: Brian Wilson is a freakin genius that's what's the matter, and those stupid girls in the sorority don't recognize a good group when they see one! 

I'm still not so sure that "the rest of the Band" took Denny all that seriously Runners.  Brian did.  He KNEW.  Meanwhile the other guys were all too often starving for songs for the 'next' album.  I just sometimes think they only took Denny's materials begrudgingly because they felt that they HAD to/that they had no choice...that they still looked at Denny as the 'Phuck-up' and because of that they couldn't HEAR the forest for the life-long trees which had built up the negativity dating back to childhood.

Why else would Denny have held his music back and felt that he had to go solo?  It wasn't a power trip.  River Song?  Outstanding.  Maybe the best thing available between Holland and TWthe man in the skyMTR.

Thank you!

I know that, but the band even then didn't take his stuff seriously because it wasn't the commercial stuff Brian had done.

What do you mean by "didn't take his stuff seriously" - it's not like they kept him from putting songs on their albums or taking leads while playing live.

I mean his stuff wasn't "commercial enough" for them.  We know the reason why his songs weren't included on Surf's Up, but how about the In Concert album?  They couldn't include not one of his songs on there?

Dude, what? When did anyone ever say or even allude to Dennis' songs not being "commercial enough" to be included on albums? He was a major creative force on several albums after he started writing songs.

I've only heard praise from the other guys in relation to Dennis' songs.

Um, I've heard and read that many times before...a couple of them threatened to kick him out of the group if he went and did a solo tour.  I know his health and bad habits (and finances) prevented it, but I bet it had more to do with jealousy than anything.  And another thing I don't get is why he was stuck singing YASB all the time when he had many great songs on POB.  River Song had been performed before with Blondie so why couldn't he sing it (at least during '77 or '78)?

Threatening to kick him out of the Beach Boys if he did a solo tour was a dick move, but it has nothing to do with his songs not being "commercial enough." Also, did you ever think that maybe he WANTED to sing "You Are So Beautiful" and wasn't just "stuck" doing so? You're inventing things and using them against the rest of the band.

I used "commercial enough" because I remember either reading that or someone saying it and it stuck out in my mind.  And i'm not inventing things, i just find it STRANGE that he had the most successful BB related album during that period and poured his heart out on all of those songs but none of those songs were included in the setlist.  And it wasn't the whole band making dick moves.  He and Carl were outnumbered in group votes many times and Brian was manipulated into doing whatever Mike Love and company said.

YASB is a great song but back then, nobody knew that was actually one of his songs.  Joe Cocker is the one who made it famous so to them he was singing a Joe Cocker song, not a Denny Wilson song.

I know that, but the band even then didn't take his stuff seriously because it wasn't the commercial stuff Brian had done.

What do you mean by "didn't take his stuff seriously" - it's not like they kept him from putting songs on their albums or taking leads while playing live.

I mean his stuff wasn't "commercial enough" for them.  We know the reason why his songs weren't included on Surf's Up, but how about the In Concert album?  They couldn't include not one of his songs on there?

Dude, what? When did anyone ever say or even allude to Dennis' songs not being "commercial enough" to be included on albums? He was a major creative force on several albums after he started writing songs.

I've only heard praise from the other guys in relation to Dennis' songs.

Um, I've heard and read that many times before...a couple of them threatened to kick him out of the group if he went and did a solo tour.  I know his health and bad habits (and finances) prevented it, but I bet it had more to do with jealousy than anything.  And another thing I don't get is why he was stuck singing YASB all the time when he had many great songs on POB.  River Song had been performed before with Blondie so why couldn't he sing it (at least during '77 or '78)?

Compare the TAMI Show with that earlier concert they did back in March of '64, huge difference

I think the reason for the "Lost Concert" being comparatively lame is that the audience was a bit lame that day. On the Sydney concert in January 1964 they sound as great and powerful as at TAMI.

Yea I see what you mean.  I was talking about all of the performances they did that year caught on film, the TAMI show is the best I've seen.  Hopefully, up the road we'll get to see more lost footage from that year 

I know that, but the band even then didn't take his stuff seriously because it wasn't the commercial stuff Brian had done.

What do you mean by "didn't take his stuff seriously" - it's not like they kept him from putting songs on their albums or taking leads while playing live.

I mean his stuff wasn't "commercial enough" for them.  We know the reason why his songs weren't included on Surf's Up, but how about the In Concert album?  They couldn't include not one of his songs on there?

I know that, but the band even then didn't take his stuff seriously because it wasn't the commercial stuff Brian had done.

Was this movie supposed to be a parody mocking the Beatles and their fans or was this just a horrible script thrown together to jump on the bandwagon of the American International Pictures Beach Movies?  Because why would you need the Beatles with the Beach Boys there? 

IGA: Personally I prefer the live in Sacramento and TAMI versions. They're played a bit faster and the verse arrangement is more driving. If you could combine the isolated fuzz bass from the studio recording into those, that'd be perfect.

  That performance from the TAMI show is my favorite BB performance from that time period!  Up to that point they had other filmed performances but they weren't as exciting to me.  Compare the TAMI Show with that earlier concert they did back in March of '64, huge difference (even though IGA wasn't in that setlist).  Another great performance of that was the Knebworth show.

[42 years]

Well in the 70s I think he was.  They needed his songs more than they realized.  I bet WIBNTLA wouldn't have been shelved for 42 years if he had been in another group.

I don't think anyone thinks of Dennis as "the dumb blonde surfer boy."

Maybe not in those exact words but saying he was just there to attract fans and then how when he started writing songs, he wasn't taken seriously.

I know that the original 5 were perfect and everything.  Brian didn't really need a group to make his music; and I'm sure most of you would say that the group needed him more than he needed them.  But couldn't the same be said about Dennis?  I mean he certainly stood out from the rest of them and his presence made them all look "cool".  If he wasn't there, would they have gotten as far as they did in the early days? Probably not.  I think he could've been in any other rock group and he probably would've gotten more recognition as an artist instead of just being labeled as "the dumb blonde surfer boy"...any thoughts?

I just found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nGRKcdh8uM   

Here's the movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utmxpby83Ck