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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows?
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on: August 06, 2018, 04:02:47 PM
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After initially stating that lead was done by Brian, then agreeing that it could be a mix of Brian and Carl, with Brian being more prominent, I feel compelled to state that yesterday I was listening to the BBs channel on SiriusXM in the car and when "God Only Knows Lead Vocal by Brian" came on and for the first time Carl's voice seemed more prominent to me.
Perhaps it was the car's audio system speakers, the different listing environment, and/or even the fact that SiriusXM is sending out a significantly data reduced signal, but for whatever reason yesterday my brain came to a different lead vocal prominence conclusion. Went back and listened at home today and Brian's is once again the prominent voice.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM?
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on: August 06, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
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Although I stand to be corrected, Mike has over the years stated he hasn’t listened to Brian’s albums, didn’t read his biography, nor watched L&M. If I was Brian I wouldn’t have worn his crappy shirt either.
Absolutely! Additionally, and I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I honestly hope myKe luHv never gets the opportunity to ever work with, write with, nor perform with Brian ever again. This jackass had his chance but because everything had to be on his terms, it fortunately didn't happen and walked away from C50. He does not deserve to be associated with Brian in the least and I hope that d'bag eats his heart out from now until his dying day. How sad that such obvious hatred and toxicity can pass by on this board without being dealt with. *sigh* He has his reasons, some of which you already know especially in regards to the reunion. Now I will defend Mike’s talent pre Kokomo til the end of time but you gotta remember OSD has been a fan of the band pretty much since day one and has had much first hand experience. " ... you gotta remember OSD has been a fan of the band pretty much since day one and has had much first hand experience." BFD. So have I. Just because someone has been a long time fan of the band does that mean that individual has free reign to pollute the Smiley Smile board with incessant hate filled posts? Not to mention that such posts reduce the level of discourse on the board since they often come across like they were written by an eight year old. Here's Board Rule #2: "Debate is fine; when it crosses into personal attacks, it becomes a different matter." I'm all for debate, and over the years Mr. Love has certainly been deserving of reasoned criticism, but I don't understand why these non-stop toxic posts are tolerated.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows?
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on: July 03, 2018, 10:37:09 PM
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... Believe me, I'm most assuredly *not* a fan of fence-walking and trying to pick the middle for the sake of it. But I think it's ABSURD that *I'm* just about the only person (though Wirestone also allowed for the possibility) allowing for the possibility that it's BOTH Carl and Brian double tracked. ...
Hey, I just want to go on record, as stated in my post below, that while first stating it was Brian, after reading c-man's post about the double tracking and doing additional careful listens, I also stated that it makes sense that it could be both Brian and Carl. ... Getting back to the question at hand, yes, this has been debated for ages, and I agree that many of the vocal intonations do sound like Carl would be expected to sound. Others are distinctly Brian. So my presumption was that Brian was singing while attempting to give the song a Carl style delivery. I hadn't considered a double tracked version done by both Brian and Carl until I read c-man's post. The recording in question is most certainly double tracked, so it makes sense that it could be both Brian and Carl, although overall I hear a lot more Brian than Carl. As far as I'm concerned, there is no way this track is Carl by himself. And we can be very thankful that this vocal track was not used for the released version as it sounds nowhere near as good as the one we all know and love with Carl's lead. ...
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Beach Boys Podcast!
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on: July 01, 2018, 11:29:15 PM
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Hey Wyatt -- and Jason, Just checking in to say I absolutely love your podcasts -- and I've been a fan since late 1961 when I first heard Surfin' on the radio, although I must admit it took Surfin USA for me to acknowledge that the BBs were headed toward becoming great group. And I didn't go really wild until the two sided hit single I Get Around / Don't Worry Baby, which was the cement that really began to pull together my fandom, although it took Please Let Me Wonder and The Beach Boys Today to completely pull it together. For anyone who was around then, with I Get Around and Don't Worry Baby, how many 45 rpm singles offered such a great combination of two songs, one featuring the bravado of Mike and the other featuring the tenderness of Brian. Those often disparate personas combined to form one of the primary reasons the BBs are such a great group -- whose music will be studied, debated, and enjoyed for ages to come. Sail on, guys! And I hope you'll make it to Southern California soon.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows?
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on: June 30, 2018, 08:02:47 PM
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I'm a little bit confused as to who is singing the lead vocal on the Pet Sounds Sessions track "God Only Knows [Brian Wilson Vocal]." I've seen some people comment that David Leaf apologized and incorrectly called it that, but some still claim it's Brian. Every time this is brought up on here, it never gets resolved. I'm almost certain it's Carl, but what do you guys think?
It's definitely an early, alternate take of Carl. Leaf was incorrect. Sorry, man, but apparently you can't discern Brian's voice and vocal intonations from Carl's in 1966. It's absolutely 100% Carl. I know that won't convince you, but it is. And being an asshole and insulting my knowledge of the group or lack of familiarity with their voices isn't going to change my mind. I'm sorry you've been duped by David Leaf, a lot of people have. It's Brian all the way and exists in the vaults only because BW realized that Carl was capable of infusing a level of transcendent tenderness, delicacy, and soul power to the song that Brain (not to mention everyone else who has ever recored the song) could not.
Let's argue facts, not emotions. Brian has stated repeatedly that he wrote the song for Carl to sing. There's no reason for him to have recorded any lead vocal for it (even a scratch vocal). Carl was in town that week and present for the tracking session. There's even the story told by Bruce that they recorded most of the vocals immediately following the tracking session. The so-called "Brian take" is just an early alternate vocal take done in a more forceful way before Carl became tired. I'm an asshole? I won't debate that one but was it something I said??? Having contributed to Beach Boys boards for ages, this is the first time I've been called a disparaging name on any of those boards, so I guess I can now relax knowing that I've finally been officially inducted into the asshole club. I must admit that my post last night (actually in the early morning) was made after returning home from a party. Finding myself in a great mood I decided to further imbibe and consumed a couple of Jack Daniel's Single Barrel Selects on the rocks while perusing the Smiley board and posting my comment. Getting back to the question at hand, yes, this has been debated for ages, and I agree that many of the vocal intonations do sound like Carl would be expected to sound. Others are distinctly Brian. So my presumption was that Brian was singing while attempting to give the song a Carl style delivery. I hadn't considered a double tracked version done by both Brian and Carl until I read c-man's post. The recording in question is most certainly double tracked, so it makes sense that it could be both Brian and Carl, although overall I hear a lot more Brian than Carl. As far as I'm concerned, there is no way this track is Carl by himself. And we can be very thankful that this vocal track was not used for the released version as it sounds nowhere near as good as the one we all know and love with Carl's lead. Speaking of the released version of GOK, the tag provides an excellent example of the potential difficulty in discerning Brain's vs Carl's voice. Remembering the vocal tag recording session, over the years Carl and Bruce repeatedly stated that the tag on the released version was sung by Brian, Carl, and Bruce. So it obviously sounded that way to Carl and Bruce as well as many listeners, myself included. Later it was revealed that Brain had erased Carl's voice on the tag, replacing it with his own voice, but giving it a somewhat different intonation so it sounded a lot like Carl. Like many others I initially thought that story had to be BS, as I was sure I clearly heard Brain, Carl, and Bruce, but it turned out it was in fact two Brians and Bruce.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows?
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on: June 30, 2018, 12:26:38 AM
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I'm a little bit confused as to who is singing the lead vocal on the Pet Sounds Sessions track "God Only Knows [Brian Wilson Vocal]." I've seen some people comment that David Leaf apologized and incorrectly called it that, but some still claim it's Brian. Every time this is brought up on here, it never gets resolved. I'm almost certain it's Carl, but what do you guys think?
It's definitely an early, alternate take of Carl. Leaf was incorrect. Sorry, man, but apparently you can't discern Brian's voice and vocal intonations from Carl's in 1966. It's Brian all the way and exists in the vaults only because BW realized that Carl was capable of infusing a level of transcendent tenderness, delicacy, and soul power to the song that Brain (not to mention everyone else who has ever recored the song) could not.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs Mike sang lead on that he did not write lyrics for
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on: June 30, 2018, 12:05:31 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up Hey Jude. I've always felt the same about Roller Skating Child too, very Mike Love like lyrics.
I cannot picture Mike, at 35 years of age, writing a song about "making sweet love till the sun goes down" to a roller skating child. Brian, yes, its just "Brian being Brian," obvious to the incorrectness of stating you're going to make sweet love till the sun goes down to a "child" and even do more when her mama's not around. Then again, I've always been baffled as to why the BBs had no problem performing the song in concert. Overall, it's a great rocking' song, and if It were titled and sung as "Roller Skating Beauty" the cringe worthy element would go away and I'd be able to enjoy the song a zillion times more. Bottom line - Mike had nothing to do with these inane lyrics.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did Carl's criminal prosecution for draft evasion cause SMiLE's cancelation?
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on: June 08, 2018, 04:32:17 PM
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Please excuse my ignorance... why was only Carl subject to the draft and not the others? Was it an age thing?
From what I can tell, all the members of the band except Mike could have been drafted, assuming they passed their physical. In the 1960's men aged 19 to 25 were subject to the draft. From May 1961 thru late August 1966 there was an exemption for married men with children, hence Mike's exemption. During that time married men without children were typically not drafted either. There was also a student deferment exemption that originally applied to men who were full time college students, (hence some "career students"), but was later shortened to four years maximum. Assuming no deferments or exemptions, this left a seven year period of uncertainty during which a man could randomly be called up for the draft, and inducted if he passed his physical. (I seem to recall that Bruce received a notice to report for a physical, but failed it, thus receiving a 4F exemption - perhaps someone can confirm if that is correct.) So Carl would have been called up, passed his physical, but refused induction, later applying for Conscious Objector status, which was typically expected to be done prior to receiving an induction notice. The 1969 and subsequent draft lotteries were devised to take away the seven year period of uncertainty. For the 1969 lottery, for example, if you had a low number you knew you were certain to be drafted in 1970 unless you joined the military (or successfully became a CO) prior to receiving an induction notice (or left the US for Canada, etc). In 1970, with the war in Vietnam raging, men with birthdays thru #195 were drafted. Many more joined a branch of military in order to avoid being drafted. I'm going by memory as well as what I read online today concerning the US draft during this period, so any corrections concerning the draft status of the BBs are welcome. ETA - Just reread NeedleInTheHay's post. Brian and Al were too old for the 1969 draft lottery, but could have been drafted earlier, during the period when they were 19 to 25 (or 26, depending on the source). So Dennis had a draft lottery number of 165, but Wikipedia says men with numbers thru 195 were called up in 1970. So maybe Dennis failed his physical, or perhaps he had a good lawyer. Just realized that Brian's bad ear would have exempted him from the draft.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM
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on: June 06, 2018, 10:15:09 PM
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Good news - heard All This is That. Bad news - they pretty much cut out the ending
Yeah, segueing too quickly from one song to the next, thus cutting out way too much of the fade, has been an issue with many of the tracks on the BB's Channel - and is something I hope they'll correct soon.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sounds of Summer back on the billboard 200
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on: June 04, 2018, 01:37:00 AM
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Worth noting is that between 1991 and 2009, albums were bumped off the "Top 200" chart after 18 months and falling below position #100.
So once albums slipped below #100 and were more than 18 months old, they were moved to the "Catalog Albums" chart. I remember this because Beatles albums around certain time periods (e.g. the "Anthology" in 95/96, etc.) would spike in sales but be ineligible for the "Top 200" chart even if sales warranted it. I remember hearing people talk about the YEARS albums like "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Thriller" had spent on the charts, and I remember thinking how any comparison to a new album released after 1991 was largely invalid (unless somehow albums could maintain a position above 100 for years and years without slipping to 101 or below even once).
"Sounds of Summer" may have spiked between 2004/05 and 2009 but wouldn't have appeared during those years in the Top 200 even if sales justified it.
From Wikipedia:
On May 25, 1991, Billboard premiered the Top Pop Catalog Albums chart. The criteria for this chart were albums that were more than 18 months old and had fallen below position 100 on the Billboard 200.[6] An album needed not have charted on the Billboard 200 at all to qualify for catalog status.
Starting with the issue dated December 5, 2009, however, the catalog limitations which removed albums over 18 months old, that have dropped below position 100 and have no currently-running single, from the Billboard 200 was lifted, turning the chart into an all-inclusive list of the 200 highest-selling albums in the country (essentially changing Top Comprehensive Albums into the Billboard 200). A new chart that keeps the previous criteria for the Billboard 200 (dubbed Top Current Albums) was also introduced in the same issue.
This is a really good point, detailing one of the dumbest album chart position decisions ever made by Billboard. If an album is selling, it's selling, regardless of when it was released and how long it's been on the charts.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Have the Beach Boys ever had any good film/video promos?
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on: June 03, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
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How is everyone forgetting the Good Vibrations promo film, shot in Fall '66 conceived and directed by Brian and featuring the camera work of Caleb Deschanel, father of Zooey and soon to become a highly successful cinematographer on his own?
There was a time on this board and others when I would have great discussions analyzing that film with the likes of Bill Tobelman and others, who saw more to the imagery and choices made in that film than what's on the surface. I think it's brilliant, and both perplexing and sometimes silly at the same time.
But it exists as a visual/film look inside what could have been the peak of the Smile-era creativity for Brian, Fall '66, when anything was possible. And it has some great candid Hollywood imagery as well, some streets and buildings that still exist as they did on that film and some that do not.
I'd say the GV promo - and the PS promo in the woods - are indeed good promos. Very much in line with what music promos were in 1966 that were not Scopitones or films of the bands miming the songs on a soundstage. Neat stuff.
Going back to an earlier thread on the subject, it seems to have been the editing work of Caleb Deschanel, rather than the camera work: Not be confrontational but that film was edited together for a Good Vibrations promo film clip, it's been all but proven and when that film clip was first aired decades after it's original broadcast (which Andrew among others saw in the 60's and can back it up), it later was part of a Beach Boys video collection for AMC network's "Am Pop" series in the early 2000's. Alan Boyd compiled those clips, and this was among them. That is where I first saw it. Mr. Boyd himself can back that up. The original intent of that film was for Good Vibrations.
Here's a recent post from Alan about it:
I recently got in touch with Caleb Deschanel, and asked him about that Good Vibrations film. it turns out he didn't actually shoot that promo....but he did cut the negative! He was studying at USC at the time, and a call came in asking if one of the students in the film department would be interested in helping out with the post-production. When fellow student George Lucas turned down the gig, Caleb took it on.
As far as the editing and filming, it would seem some famous names in the film industry were involved. Caleb Deschanel, famous in the industry as a cinematographer, is of course also the father of sisters Zoe and Emily whom we know. George Lucas was also a film student when he was asked to help with the editing of the Good Vibrations clip. Sure, it's a bit haphazard by modern standards but no more scattershot than the clips of Paperback Writer, Rain, etc. which The Beatles had been doing earlier in 1966 for similar purposes and continued doing in place of touring and live appearances on television to promote singles. The raw nature of these gives them some charm, IMO.
Michael Vosse, David Anderle - both men have spoken about this clip, with one of them suggesting it was a "distraction" for Brian to work on it at this time: I believe one of them mentions it specifically as the GV promo film though I could be wrong.
I think the evidence for this being filmed as a Good Vibrations promotional clip outweighs the evidence of it *not* being for that purpose. The producers and editors of American Band were the ones who confused the issue when they cut the film to "Fire" in the early 80's. That was not the original intent nor the original editing of the footage. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm pretty confident with all the evidence to support it.
While the Good Vibrations promo film was shown in the UK at the time, but to the best of my knowledge not in the US, I will also add that if the original filming was in fact done specifically for a Good Vibrations promo film, it is a rather bizarre presentation for such a film, but not out of character for something Brian Wilson would have suggested back then. And finally, has the mystery ever been solved - Who is the girl with the basketball? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11011.0.html
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Archival Release Process
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on: April 02, 2018, 09:23:19 PM
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... I believe Capitol/EMI/UMe can put out all the repackagings of old hits, etc. that they want. But even if they're issuing previously unreleased material from the 60s that Capitol owns, BRI has to sign off on it. ...
I'm baffled as to why BRI would have to sign off on a reissue of any previously unreleased material from the 60s that Capitol owns. Was this a requirement put in place when BRI licensed the non-Capitol stuff for release on Capitol?
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
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on: January 29, 2018, 02:11:46 PM
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Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brian’s thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?
Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.
Good question about a fair where admission to see The Beach Boys is included, although Brian has played such shows as well, but far fewer. Having seen both the BBs and BW at the San Diego County Fair, while admission was potentially free, I paid for better seats. Regardless of how an average ticket price might be calculated under a county or state fair scenario, the performers involved would still receive gross revenue from their appearance which they and the promoters would factor into the decision to perform. Yes, BW's touring expenses are significantly higher than Mike's, and the net figures would tell the definitive story, but looking at the numbers I find it hard to believe, as has been stated in the past, that Brian's tours lose money overall, and even harder to believe that the North American C50 tour, with an average gross of $300,000 per show, was a money loser, especially considering that promoters were asking for more shows.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
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on: January 29, 2018, 01:54:59 PM
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Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.
That's the 2017 NA tour alone
Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9
I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested: https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdfGuess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012? $15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates. Gosh, all that money coming in and Brain Wilson's North American tours as well as the 2012 C50 North American tour were supposedly money losers? Interesting to see that only three other performers on the Top 200 list had a lower average 2017 gross than The Beach Boys. For sure, overexposure is a big factor there.
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Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Holland was released 45 years ago today.
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on: January 08, 2018, 05:25:47 PM
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One of the band’s strangest yet most ambitious albums, their last studio effort with Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar, and the end of that fascinating transitional era before the Endless Summer nostalgia hit. Beautifully produced by Carl Wilson, it’s one of my all-time favorites.
When I picked up the Holland LP 45 years ago today I would have been quite dismayed if I would have known that this would be the last Beach Boys studio album that would fall under the dual umbrellas of both progressive and hip. I was ecstatic 18 months later when Endless Summer shot to the top of the charts, due to the increased popularity and recognition it provided my favorite band, but again would have been very dismayed at that time had I known its effect on the Beach Boys concert setlists. (One nice bonus of Endless Summer's success was that the out of print Capitol albums Wild Honey & 20/20 and Friends & Smiley Smile were rereleased, as two-fers, followed the next year by Good Vibrations-Best of The Beach Boys featuring some great stuff from '66 thru '71.) The subsequent release of 15 Big Ones in '76 and Love You in '77 were truly WTF moments for me. Yes, some nice stuff on both albums, but a whole lot of poorly sung junkers as well. And I couldn't believe the state of Brian's voice. During the long three and a half year wait from Holland to 15 Big Ones, I was under the mistaken impression that the reason the Beach Boys had not released a new studio album was because resident genius Brian Wilson was working on some incredible new music, waiting to get it just right before releasing it. I guess the Brian's bizarre spoken passages on Holland's 7 inch bonus EP Mount Vernon and Fairway should have served as a clue to his state of mind, although it fit well under the definition of eccentric. Plus I'd spoken to Brian and Marilyn after the April 1973 Hollywood Palladium concert and he seemed absolutely fine - quite conversant and in a very good mood. Brian did not attend the November 1973 Long Beach Arena concert, but after the concert Marilyn told me Brian was at Danny Hutton's working on new music, so I figured all was good. For quite a few years after it's release Holland was the main BB album that people who weren't all that much into the Beach Boys told me they liked.
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