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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 01:41:08 PM
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101  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why no new album in 1975? on: March 16, 2017, 11:21:08 AM
<<The only reason it was released was to try to fool CBS into thinking that Brian was doing more work on KTSA than was really the case.>>

Don - as someone who was a fan at the time - your analysis is the best view of the 1975-76 era as I have ever read.  In the case of WGGT, I believe there might have even been a contractual requirement with CBS that over half of the songs on KTSA had to be Brian Wilson compositions.  Thus we had the promo ads in magazines in 1980 touting no less than "6 new Brian Wilson songs, including five by hit songwriting team Brian Wilson and Mike Love!"

I remember that ad very well.
102  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why no new album in 1975? on: March 14, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
I believe in one of the early Timothy White interviews during the 15 Big Ones sessions, Carl was very enthusiastic about Good Timin'. 
103  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Could the Lei’d in Hawaii arrangements been hits? on: March 03, 2017, 09:56:25 AM

<<But if people have the originals in mind while they hear the Lei'd version of California Girls it becomes a unique take on a brilliant song. I also think for chart status to happen they would've had to change up the instrumentation just a little - keep that organ front and center but add some more dynamics on the instrument front (ukulele, standup piano, glockenspiel, perhaps adding a little reverb to the vocals, etc). >>

Interesting thought on all of this... during at least one of the fall 1967 shows (Detroit, I think), the band gives the audience the option of picking the Lei'd in Hawaii ending or the standard California Girls ending.  The audience overwhelmingly picks the standard ending.
104  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favourite song from each BB album on: February 24, 2017, 07:15:31 AM
Great idea for a thread...

Surfin' Safari - County Fair
Surfin' U.S.A. - Lonely Sea
Surfer Girl - Surfer's Rule
Little Deuce Coupe - Spirit of America
Shut Down Volume 2 - Why Do Fools Fall In Love
All Summer Long - Girls on the Beach
Christmas Album - Little Saint Nick
Today! - Kiss Me Baby
Summer Days (and Summer Nights!!) - Amusement Parks USA
Party! - Mountain of Love
Pet Sounds - Wouldn't It Be Nice
Smile Sessions - Do You Like Worms
Smiley Smile - Little Pad
Wild Honey - Country Air
Friends - Wake the World
20/20 - Time to Get Alone
Sunflower - Add Some Music to Your Day
Surf's Up - 'Til I Die
Carl and the Passions, So Tough - Cuddle Up
Holland - California Saga: California
15 Big Ones - It's OK
Love You - I'll Bet He's Nice
(Adult Child) - It's Tryin' to Say (Baseball)
M.I.U. Album - Wontcha Come Out Tonight
L.A. (Light Album) - Baby Blue
Keepin' The Summer Alive - Santa Ana Winds
The Beach Boys - Where I Belong
Still Cruisin' - Island Girl
Summer in Paradise - Title track
Stars and Stripes Vol. 1 - I Can Hear Music
That's Why God Made the Radio - Title track
105  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: February 22, 2017, 03:58:58 PM
<<Marilyn? Sounds very much like 1976 vintage Brian to these ears.>>

Marilyn... according to my sources... apparently she did a lot of falsetto on that album.
106  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: February 22, 2017, 03:06:04 PM
<<Could that falsetto be added to the BBs version?>>

It may already be there... the 2012 "faders up" mix of Rock & Roll Music revealed a heretofore unheard falsetto part beginning with the third verse (sung, as I understand, by Marilyn Wilson).  The falsetto line itself is a great little riff... and whoever did the high part in Celebration duplicated - precisely - the same line I heard Al sing in 1976.  So I'd like to assume it was a known counter melody line for It's OK... just not used in the released BB mix.
107  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ It's OK on: February 22, 2017, 11:18:27 AM
When I saw the Beach Boys in July of 1976, they performed It's OK along with other cuts from 15 Big Ones.  For the It's OK tag ("Find a ride/" "In the Sum-sum-summertime") Al Jardine sang a great falsetto part on top of the other vocal parts. 

The same falsetto part was later used during the tag for the Celebration It's OK cover featured on the Almost Summer soundtrack LP.

I always thought It's OK might have been a bigger hit in 1976 if they'd included that falsetto part on the Beach Boys single.  The melody for that falsetto line sounded like something Brian would have written.  Perhaps there's a version with that falsetto still in the vault. 
108  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favorite Version of \ on: February 16, 2017, 12:44:27 PM
<<The fact that Mike seemingly randomly only doubled Al on the beginning portion of the song, and not the full song, speaks further to this not being some strategic vocal arrangement choice>>

Nothing random about it at all.  At the many shows I attended between 1976 - 1980, Mike, specifically, sang the first verse with Al on Rhonda and WIBN, then reverted to his bg parts beginning with the first chorus, which was where his part began on the records.  He would then stay with his required bg parts for the rest of the songs.  Very precise, and happened every time.

In 1981, the band dropped the "fanfare" version of Rhonda, in favor of an arrangement closer to the original 1965 single, but with the guitar fills from the Beach Boys Today LP album track (I think those fills were actually redone on synthesizer).  At that point, as I recall, it became Al solo.

I do remember Al occasionally doubling - or coming to the rescue - of Brian when he attempted WIBN during that '81 tour.
109  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favorite Version of \ on: February 16, 2017, 09:58:25 AM
<<I suppose I can't get assume the motive for Mike singing part of the lead, but musically I can say it was unneeded and came across, especially to anyone who didn't subsequently listen to dozens of recordings of the 1980 tour like I have, as though Mike was arbitrarily singing the lead for part of the song for no particular reason. It *comes across* as the exact opposite of professional and makes it sounds messy.>>

The vocal presentation on stage was designed to sound fuller, bigger, for a live audience, not a mixing board to tape.  From an audience perspective, with the amplification and reproduction available in those days, what might have sounded "messy" on a mixing board recording sounded great in the middle of the audience.  Do you really think, at that stage of the game, Mike Love was so desperate for validation he'd sing over Al on those two songs, as if to say, "me, too?"  Or that Carl would have allowed it if he thought it sounded bad to a live audience?  Carl called the shots in those days, on stage.  If he didn't like it, it didn't happen.

<<came across, especially to anyone who didn't subsequently listen to dozens of recordings of the 1980 tour like I have>>

This, of course, illustrates my point perfectly.  My perspective didn't come from listening to dozens of recordings from tours... it came from being in those audiences.  As they say, I guess you had to be there.
110  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favorite Version of \ on: February 16, 2017, 08:16:43 AM
<<and Mike for some reason was horning in on this lead every time in this era. On the DC show (can't remember if this also happens on the Knebworth show at the moment), Mike sings over Al for awhile and then eventually inexplicably gives up and lets Al sing it solo>

This isn't "horning in..." it's old school professionalism.  Doubled leads were always a big thing in those days (just listen to Brian's patter with Dean Torrence on the Party sessions).  Jan & Dean used to routinely double their leads on stage in the sixties to give it a fuller sound.

It was standard practice on stage in the mid/late seventies period for band members in the Beach Boys to double leads on songs.  Mike always doubled Al's leads on Rhonda and Wouldn't It Be Nice for the first verse.  Billy Hinsche doubled Al Jardine on Honkin' Down the Highway on the 1977 tour.  It happened on other songs as well.  This isn't ego... this is professional musicianship for that era.
111  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favorite Version of \ on: February 15, 2017, 02:00:50 PM
I think, without a doubt, my favorite version is the live arrangement in 1976 and 1977... Dennis at the piano, band and horn line playing an ascending scale which stings out... the sting fades for a pause, and then the band does this double 8th note kick into the song.  It was huge and an adrenalin rush in the audience was like electricity... a huge roar from the crowd as they played for about four bars, and then Al and Mike started singing in unison.  You can hear that 2 note kick in after the pause on the 1976 It's OK special.
112  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My Beach Boys YouTube Channel on: February 10, 2017, 07:33:17 AM
I'd like to see an alternate/extended version of the LA Light Album...
113  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Keepin' The Summer Alive on: January 27, 2017, 11:31:42 AM
<<I wonder whose idea it was to put WGGT on the album? Bizarre inclusion to say the least.>>

I asked Bruce about this after a show in Paducah, KY, in 1982.  He said when he was considering vault tracks to fill out the album he took a listen to it and loved the tympani part.  He said, and I quote, "I told Carl this had to be on the album."  He loved it. 
114  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if Jan & Dean had joined The Beach Boys? on: January 27, 2017, 07:41:37 AM
An interesting sidebar... when Mike went to Switzerland in the first half of 1977, The Beach Boys were considering tours early in the year.  Mike's specific recommendation... should the band elect to tour while he was out of the country... was that Dean Torrence take his place as front man.  That would have been interesting to see.

There was also some talk in 1978 that Mike and Bruce would join forces to produce a Jan Berry solo album.  I don't recall if it was speculation in the rock or fan press at that time... don't even recall where I read it.  May have been Sunshine Music or BBFUN.  Per Mark's excellent book, I believe A&M was close to releasing a solo LP from Jan... or at least a basic track line-up might have been proposed.  Mark?
115  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Keepin' The Summer Alive on: January 25, 2017, 10:08:08 AM
Mr. Desper -

Do you have any recollection of unreleased tracks from the KTSA sessions, like Ed Carter's "Surfer Susie,"  Carl's cover "I'll Always Love You" or a new and/or finished version of "Been Way Too Long/Can't Wait Too Long?"
116  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 24, 2017, 07:45:17 AM
<<I think you're politicizing this more than anyone by invoking "safe space" and "trigger warning" and "micro aggression", all silly buzzwords meant to belittle the legitimate ethical questions that can be raised when specifically a *Trump rally* is used as the basis for comparison to the Beach Boys. >>

My apologies if you found my post politicized.  It was not intended as such.

In fact, in re-reading my post, I now realize, just like Mr. Desper, I forgot to include the phrase "trigger warning." I've now modified this.
117  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 24, 2017, 07:11:32 AM
<<I dunno, this is just coming across as stirring the s**t back up. I don't recall anyone in that thread calling Steve Desper an "asshat" or "idiotic." It's especially unfair to make these characterizations of other posters when apparently *none* of the original posts in question are still up on this board. >>

Trigger Warning:

I'm not sure of your relevance here?  The instigators of this mess - who continue to stir it up in some bizarre, desperate attempt to validate their behavior, were asshats.  And posted in an idiotic matter, finding political context where none existed.  Mr. Desper was making an analogy based on crowd tone and crowd size at public events.  Period.

<<My recollection may or may not be wholly accurate, but my recollection tells me that a characterization that "asshats" and "idiotic" people ran off Steve Desper from this board is unfair and out of line. It just isn't the simple. So my original post bringing the topic up was simply to put it out there that maybe there's more than one side to the "Desper was run off the board" story; and this is especially important since only a weird redacted, edited version of the original posts survives.>>

There are no two sides.  Asshats and idiotic people did run Mr. Desper off this board.  It's fact.  Period.  He was providing his unique insight out of complete generosity to this forum.  And certain posters felt so micro-aggressed by the fact that Desper mentioned a particular politician's name that they posted in outrage.  The mere mention of that candidate's name clearly endangered these posters' safe space and so they began an attack.

<<I disagree with the idea that politics was "clearly the furthest thing from his mind", and clearly that's something we all have to just agree to disagree about. But it's not as if I was advocating *any* action take place against Desper for making the post. He can post what he wants, and people should be able to respond as they wish. My recollection is that nobody resorted to name calling or attacking Steve Desper. "Your analogy is inappropriate", or some variation of such an argument, is not an attack. >>

Of course it was an attack.  And all who participated should grow up, climb out of their safe space and own it.  Desper - in trying to find an analogy that might best explain crowd size and crowd attitude at Beach Boys shows in the 70s (a very unique experience, if you were there), had no political point to make.  He was simply giving some historical perspective to those who might not have been there, at that time.

The absurdity of all of this is that the entire thing was nothing more than a historical music post by one of this board's most interesting and generous contributors.  But I guess he forgot to say "Trigger Warning" before mentioning said candidate's name in his analogy and there was hell to pay, as his micro-aggressed attackers turned the entire thing into a political rant.

Children.  
118  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 23, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
<<I think part of the hangup in that old thread (and again, it doesn't appear to be online anymore for some reason, so I'm doing my best to remember) was that it turned into kind of a semantics thing. I think maybe people were too quick to jump to the political angle. But I think people rightly got a bit hung up on the fact that Mr. Desper didn't want to admit that what he was saying was, as some would tend to read it, somewhat of a "positive" interpretation of something (in this case Trump's rallies) that many saw as so egregiously about so many negative things (people being beat up at rallies, hate and racism being spewed at the rallies, etc.).
It having been well established that many people felt that way about those rallies, I don't think it was out of line to question the potential tastelessness of the analogy. >>

AH... now I see.  So Mr. Desper was trying to compare crowd size and crowd enthusiasm at 1970s Beach Boys concerts to crowd size and crowd enthusiasm at Trump rallies last year.  

And asshats on this board attacked him for making a political post, even though that was clearly the furthest thing from his mind.  

And as a consequence to these misplaced, idiotic attacks on Mr. Desper, this board has now lost the unique historical contributions he made to this forum.

Congratulations to all the children who instigated this.  You must be very proud of yourselves.  
119  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 23, 2017, 07:45:20 AM
Forgive me for coming late to the party but what happened with Mr. Desper?  I greatly enjoyed his posts and everything he shared.
120  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Keepin' The Summer Alive on: January 19, 2017, 10:11:55 AM
KTSA, for me, shares similarities with LA Light, apart from the Bruce Johnston production and the label.

The material released, in my view, on both albums, is very strong.  The common thread between both albums is what's missing, not what was released.  KTSA would have greatly benefited from Goin' to the Beach, Da Doo Ron Ron, and from what I've heard tell (though not heard myself), Surfer Susie and I'll Always Love You.  At the time, this was initially going to be called "Brothers, Cousins and Friends," and contain a cross section of material, including a finished mix of Can't Wait Too Long, The Lord's Prayer in stereo, possibly the new mix of San Miguel prepared for MIU.  It might have even been a double album at one point.  I remember reading something about that back in the day.  But a lot of it just didn't cut and we were left with the ten cuts we got.

Using the Made in California set, drop in Goin to the Beach, Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love, Da Doo Ron Ron... It's A Beautiful Day (all of which mix very well into the unique sound of this album)...maybe It's Not Too Late from Bambu... maybe San Miguel or a snippet of Can't Wait Too Long... and you've got a very different, richer album, perhaps a little closer to what was intended.
121  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Al's BB Family & Friends appreciation thread on: January 06, 2017, 09:26:06 AM
Ricci, Desi & Billy Live in Vegas is actually the opening part of the Jardine show, with much of the same band, during that series of gigs in Vegas.  Quite a good addition for completists...

https://www.amazon.com/Live-Vegas-Desi-Billy-Ricci/dp/B00171ATFC
122  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love on the LA Light Album on: January 05, 2017, 04:55:41 PM
"...and a disco version of Dance Dance Dance..."

Maybe not.  A lot of ill-advised disco covers in those days...

Frank Sinatra... Disco Night & Day... 1977

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VSkEoW-yig
123  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: T.A.M.I. Show/Big T.N.T. Show Coming to Blu-ray on December 2 on: January 04, 2017, 12:37:20 PM
<<Both shows were shot on videotape, and these HD transfers are made from kinescopes. You can tell the difference because the opening pre-filmed bit on "TAMI" looks *much better* than everything else. Still, the resolution is locked in to what we have, and it looks and sounds as good as it possibly can. "TNT" seems to look and sound a bit worse than "TAMI" despite being filmed over a year later.>>

Not precisely true.  Electronovision was a direct line feed to 35mm film cameras... similar to what film scanning is today, but in real time.  The process was considerably cleaner than kinescope, which also distorted the image.  The opening sequences were shot directly on 35mm film, which accounts for the better image quality.

As far as TNT looking worse than the earlier TAMI show, this comes down to available elements.  The only film element available was a 93 minute cut, which, according to the liner notes, was considerably shorter than the full cut.  American International Pictures released TNT.  They were later acquired by Orion, who in turn, was gobbled up by MGM.  This particular film element was, no doubt, the best available.   
124  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love on the LA Light Album on: January 04, 2017, 11:04:19 AM

<<Does anyone know how close Constant Companion came to being released as a BB song?
Did the fact that it was vetoed as being the single lead directly to it being pulled entirely from the album? That would seem to be similar to the fate of Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again), which was pulled entirely from Surf's Up when it didn't get the closing track slot.>>

In the 1978 David Leaf interview, Bruce seemed very enamored with all of Dennis' submissions, as well as Carl's Angel Come Home, which Bruce thought (and I agreed), could have been a 1979 hit single for the band had it been pushed.  A Beach Boys classic, it had a similar commercial vibe to Exile's "Kiss You All Over" and the stuff Eddie Money was releasing.  A missed opportunity.

As for Constant Companion, according to the ESQ interview with Carli Munoz, Carl specifically told him outside the studio that Constant Companion would be the lead-off single from the album.  I think, with full Beach Boys harmpony and production, Companion would landed the same kind of chart success in 1979 that Paul McCartney & Wings garnered for "Goodnight Tonight"
125  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love on the LA Light Album on: January 04, 2017, 08:13:55 AM

<<My take on LA (Light Album) is that it is was supposed to be a “democratic”-type album, where every member had his moment to shine. Maybe CBS felt that the group’s best shot at contemporary success were tracks with Carl vocals. This seemed to continue through to the 1985 album … let’s face it, Carl was the strongest vocalist in the group; you can’t blame them for going that route.>>

Between the Bruce interview/profile/news bits in the final issue of David Leaf's Pet Sounds, and Dave Beard's excellent historical breakdown of LA Light in ESQ, it seems pretty apparent that Bruce had final say on the album contents.  Bruce vetoed Constant Companion as the lead off single in favor of Here Comes the Night, Santa Ana Winds, California Feelin', Brian's Back (written by Mike), and his own production of Brian's arrangement of Calendar Girl, which featured a Mike lead vocal.  As much as I like the LA Light album, I think it suffers by only having one lead vocal each from Mike and Al, although, in my view, the tracks that remain are all very strong.  The album itself has a polish consistent with the best of the yacht rock stuff very popular at that time.
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