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672375 Posts in 27076 Topics by 3979 Members - Latest Member: sloopfan3 October 16, 2021, 08:08:10 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who Played on “Holland”? on: September 30, 2021, 11:14:21 PM
Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?

I believe he did when Dennis sang "The Wanderer" at early shows ...

The shows that Brian played in 1965, he also played drums when Dennis would come out front to sing Do You Wanna Dance.

2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BW88 Outtakes (unreleased) questions on: September 27, 2021, 10:42:39 PM
The original version of Saturday Morning In The City was one of the demos that were put on, wasn’t it?
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 02, 2021, 11:46:49 PM
I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.

That clip was always disturbing to me. Especially when Fred goes “well, my friend is dead and the BB are still here.” Like, is Fred saying that the DJ dying was karmic punishment for not playing a new BB record on the radio in 1970?
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you associate Cabin Essence & Surf's Up more with Smile or 20/20 & Surf's Up? on: August 30, 2021, 06:26:18 AM
I associate them with SMiLE.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Stars & Stripes reappraisal? on: August 25, 2021, 07:17:32 AM
I'd wager that much of the thought behind "Stars and Stripes" being a "Beach Boys" album was that they were essentially running it as an "authorized tribute album." Instead of some other company doing it, they'd do it themselves and, if the thing was a hit, they'd get a bigger return. Adding the backing vocals obviously lent even more authenticity/credibility to the project for both artists and (theoretically) fans.

Perhaps learning from the mistake of funding "Summer In Paradise" themselves, they seem to have hooked Thomas's label (and possibly other) to help fund the "Stars and Stripes" project.

What ended up happening is that country music fans didn't care about Beach Boys music or the Beach Boys, Beach Boys fans didn't care about country music or the artists lined up on the album, and it sold *very* poorly.

Believe it or not, it apparently sold 80,000 copies -- a similar number to the Smile Sessions (!!). It's also apparently fairly close to the number of copies of Pet Sounds sold since 2000 and more than either of the 2012 hits compilations.

Clearly it was a commercial disappointment (and no wonder, for the reasons you cite), but not necessarily a disaster on the scale of Summer In Paradise, which it outsold 3-to-1.

You can’t compare record sales from 1996 to sales from 2011.  For one thing, people in 1996 were still buying music.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: FEEL FLOWS - Chapter One. . . on: August 19, 2021, 07:04:00 AM
Well done, Howie!
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary) on: June 29, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Did Love and Mercy perform well in the theaters? I didn't even think my local theater had gotten it until it had been out for weeks. Although it would be really great, I couldn't see this documentary doing well as a mass-market theater release. Indie theaters or limited release, maybe. But I agree, streaming is where their heads should be at with this.

The film’s budget was $10 million. The box office globally was $28.6 million. It played mostly in art movie and indie movie houses, which I think was the intent. I was glued to cable tv when the commercials for the film were airing and there did seem to be a disconnect between how the film was presented in the commercials vs. what the film actually was. It was marketed like a groovy, nostalgic Beach Boys movie when it wasn’t that at all. They really should have waited until Oscar season to release it. Also, putting the new song from the film on your album first literally killed Brian’s shot at an Oscar nom.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: June 29, 2021, 05:19:56 AM
I just heard this on the 60’s On 6. Good Vibrations: The Beach Boys Channel will be returning to Sirius/XM starting July 2!
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian and GOK on the Professor of Rock! on: June 24, 2021, 10:09:50 AM
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys took at hit on HBO on: June 19, 2021, 02:41:49 PM
Bill hasn’t been funny in a long, long, long time.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 60th Anniversary celebration and definitive doc to be announced soon on: June 06, 2021, 09:30:13 AM
A streamer, which means I'll have to wait for the DVD/Blu Ray release before I can see it.

Or you could join the 21st century.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian in Topanga 1996 video on Youtube! on: May 24, 2021, 06:14:24 PM
You know everybody talking about how Brian is more active to the eye or whatever you'd call it, I think it comes down to this...the less there needs to be from Brian on-stage, the less you'll get. Look at the late '70s Beach Boys. Obviously the touring group had showed for over ten years that they could do great shows without Brian. When he played with them live during the late '70s and early '80s you didn't see him usually doing all that much. But if you look at the mid '80s when he started doing the occasional solo appearance, you'd see him playing piano and singing with gusto. This basically continued up until the Imagination period. But then you watch something like that Fender Presents appearance he did with Blondie and Nicky, you see an engaged and upbeat Brian.

Now obviously these days he moves a bit slower then he did 25 years ago. Who of us doesn't? But I think when he wants to, he can still deliver.

BW's band and the current BB band are kinda the same in that regard; the more you fill the stage with session musicians, the closer it sounds to the record and the less interesting it gets.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Gear on: May 21, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
I think that was the first thing most big fans thought when they announced the Carl Rickenbacker signature model - has he used one since like 1965?

They even did a promo poster with an 80s shot of Carl (which I believe used one of Emdeeh's photos) where they had to remove the guitar Carl was playing and paste in a Rickenbacker into his hands:

Nice photo; lame photochop.

A less glamorous but more apt signature model would have been a replica of his natural Gibson ES-335 that is the guitar you most see him with from the late 70s through to 1997.

Curiously, here’s Carl playing a Rickenbacker in 1996 on a TV appearance.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your Favorite Mike Leads, Bass Vocals and Songwriting Credits? on: March 20, 2021, 07:35:15 PM
Lead vocals: California Girls definitely. All I Wanna Do is a very close second.
Bass vocals: the tag on Til I Die
Lyrics: The Warmth Of The Sun, Please Let Me Wonder
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Easter Seals 1979: is that Dennis on piano???? on: March 12, 2021, 10:03:23 AM
GOOD TIMIN'--- wow it sounds so good- is that dennis on piano-

I believe it’s Sterling Smith on piano.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: why didnt Sinatra record \ on: March 09, 2021, 06:14:56 AM
That reads like what a comedy writer thinks Frank would do to the song.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Looking Back With Love - Official Release on: March 06, 2021, 11:18:38 AM
Crazy confession..:.I actually really like about 3/4 of this, especially on and on and on, and the last three songs.

Mike’s version of Teach Me Tonight was always a guilty pleasure of mine.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Great 1985 footage on: February 25, 2021, 11:07:27 AM
The interesting I noticed was that short clip of the BB laying down the harmonies on Passing Friend. Just the bare vocals with no processing or effects and the vocal blend sounds exactly like their 1969-70 vocal blend.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys bought on: February 20, 2021, 12:09:17 AM
Coming out of the chauffeur's quarters stoned to post my thoughts while eating junk food...

I have some concerns about this deal. As I'm sure many here can relate to, the music has meant so much to me, no matter the circumstance. Even though our life stories are completely different, I just connect so much with Brian. The amount of sh*t Brian has had to deal with; he was just this kid who would wanted to make records people liked. This young guy perpetually taken advantage of, being emotionally or physically abused, laid astray at times by people of questionable intent. All Brian wanted to do was make records with friends and all he wanted from that was enjoyment. Not money. The blurb Brian gave on the back of the All Summer Long sums it up well: "I live with my piano and I love to make records that my friends like to hear. The fellas have worked so well with me - you'd never know we were brothers and cousins. Thank you for giving me the incentive to create our records."

Money ruined The Beach Boys. Once they got initial success, the pressures put on Brian amplified and multiplied with each passing year. The deeper Brian got into the business, the industry, the drug scene, the more he began to spiral. Brian was just a Hawthorne kid who wanted to make music. He worked his ass for so long and he just wanted to make people (mostly Murry) happy. In my career, I really relate to that; working so hard and being so invested in your job, you burn out. You need to pause and make (or listen to) Friends. Every time I listen to Passing By, I just think of Brian at the keys just humming and vibing; escaping reality. I relate to that. The world has been a f***ed up place and I think Brian saw that (both in his own life and in the world) and just withdrew. One reason I'm so connected to this music and Brian are due to my own anxieties, fears, depressions, the heartache, the obsessive habits. Something tells me I'm not the only one here who feels it when hearing lines like:

"I built all my goals around you that some day my love would surround you/You'll never know what we've been through for so long I thought about it and now I just can't live without it/This beautiful image I have of you"
"It kills my soul."
"Is somebody gonna tell me why she has to hide?"
"Everything is old and nothing is new. All I ever do is think of you. Memories haunt me night and day."
"There's been songs about celebration but if you ask me, I can't see why. There's too much pain, too much pain in my heart now."

That's not even bringing in all the joyous songs that bring me sheer joy, like Hushabye or Cool, Cool Water or the last 40 seconds of Wind Chimes. but back to the point; money really ruined the guys. I believe it turned Mike into what he is today; a relentless business/brand promoter. I have always tried to be fair to Mike; I admit to reading and enjoying his autobiography. With that being said, Mike has ALWAYS been wanting a way to make a buck. I wonder how much of that dates back to his father's business going under and his parents having to move out of their mansion. Is Mike still worrying something like that will befall him? He had bankruptcy once before. Maybe Mike is just a workaholic, but if you go back to wanting to connect with your audience ($)vs Cabinessence, there's Mike. Endless Summer; that's Mike. All of the Brian's Back campaign was the Loves. Stephen the "brains," Mike the showman, Stan (and Rocky) the muscle to intimidate Brian. All the songs in Hollywood movies, Mike. Club Kokomo, Mike. I'm sure Mike was on board with Steve Levine because Levine said that's the main reason the band hired him, because of Culture Club's success, and we know who in the band is always focused on success.

But money also ruined Dennis; even though he was a spendthrift, I think it opened up many indulgences that Dennis should have been cut off from. Dennis really started to fall apart after the Brian's Back campaign/POB; that's when the money was coming in like crazy from the tours. Bruce has always been about the business. Carl seemed to accept that mindset by the 1980s; though he did mention to Levine that the BB had an entourage problem. Al seems okay with making a buck, but isn't going to be out there self-promoting like Mike. Brian is Brian.

So what are my fears about this current deal?

The Beach Boys name being a touring band decades after all the original members are deceased
Tacky merchandise/hotel chains like Margaritaville
Whitewashing/oversimplification of the history of the group
Ignoring pretty much everything past 1966
Jukebox musicals, Hollywood biopics, and chain restaurants

I'm not a Beach Boys fan because of the lifestyle. I don't want a Broadway show like Jersey Boys. One, why? Give me the original music. Two, you cannot tell the Beach Boys story without it going dark. But that won't sell, so it'll be something like: Surfin', We're big! Cousin Brian did drugs, no one listens to us anymore, Cousin Dennis did drugs and died, KOKOMO!!!! and rip Cousin Carl. A Beach Boys musical with Murry in the 1st act, Rocky Pamplin in the 2nd act, and Eugene Landy in the 3rd act. And that's just about Brian. 

I think, maybe, the guys want that push for big-name recognition one last time. They all got screwed over in their careers. It wasn't just Brian. They were unfairly judged and their talents were mocked. Their entire career has been pigeonholed as fun in the sun. We all know they didn't pick the name The Beach Boys. They cannot escape their own name and this legacy/lifestyle stuff is going to be just that. Pet Sounds t-shirts at Target and Club Kokomo brand food and drink. Overexposed, commercialized

What’s wrong with Pet Sounds shirts at Target? You can buy Abbey Road shirts at the mall. Why shouldn’t you buy a Pet Sounds shirt?

The Beach Boys name being a touring band decades after all the original members are deceased

Me: That may happen anyway even without this deal.

Tacky merchandise/hotel chains like Margaritaville

Me: Only Al suggested the restaurant thing. After earlier attempts failed, I doubt anyone would seriously consider that. Again.

Whitewashing/oversimplification of the history of the group

Me: So, you’re worried that something that has been happening for decades will happen?

Ignoring pretty much everything past 1966

Me: BRI never owned the pre-1970 catalog. If anything, I expect the new owners to actually start pushing the 67-73 material to TV and film producers. Music from the 60’s and 70’s is still a thing for movies, but many have strayed away from the over familiar and have started discovering the more obscure stuff from that era. This deal, I think and hope, will help with that.
Jukebox musicals, Hollywood biopics, and chain restaurants

20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys bought on: February 18, 2021, 10:33:34 AM
It's all about marketing. The kind of pitch an organization like Iconic could have used may have included references to other legacy acts who haven't released a new album of note in 40 years getting reintroduced into the pop culture lexicon and becoming almost as current as so-called "modern" artists with their 100 million views in a week YouTube stats.

I'll say one band name and if you consider where this band (and brand) was 10 years ago versus where they have been in the past 2-3 years up to the present, I think the goals of what Azoff wants to bring to the process become very clear.


Consider how greatly the band Queen's legacy and visibility has grown over the past few years, and the winning pitch to other bands could be "we'll do that for you." Apart from Queen's music, which is of course the draw and the main reason why people are still talking about them, the way Queen got back into the public's eyes and ears and has them now as one of the most popular legacy bands in terms of downloads/streams and interest overall whereas 10 years ago they weren't is a testament to some amazing marketing and placement strategies that reached and resonated with new generations of listeners.

If you start hearing original Beach Boys tracks in certain outlets, if you start seeing Pet Sounds cover T-shirts being sold at Hot Topic and being worn by 17 year olds, if you start seeing a more modernized, streamlined approach to marketing *The Beach Boys* beyond seeing blurbs for Mike's live shows in your local paper's "Weekender" section, that's a good thing.

The music is there waiting to be discovered by new audiences, and I have hopes that the Azoff group will know how to get it to them in a more skillful and less clumsy way (also avoiding silly sideline sh*t like kerfuffles over trophy hunting gigs and the like) and get new generations talking about The Beach Boys like those same audiences talk about Queen.

It's possible.

Two more names that also can be used as good examples: Elton John and Fleetwood Mac.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Which Beach Boys songs/albums are popular with the younger hipster crowd? on: February 17, 2021, 11:51:49 PM
Pet Sounds, SMiLE, and 67-73 BB always has had an audience with younger, hipper record nerds.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Was a Beatles-like career arc ever possible for the Beach Boys? on: February 11, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
"Going out on top" is a romantic notion that I think is way, way, way overrated. I'm still disappointed with the Beatles and REM for quitting when they did.

No, it really isn’t.

And no one was caring about REM when they split.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Is there a reason why 'Still Cruisin' is not on Spotify ....or anywhere on: January 28, 2021, 05:37:52 AM
Instead of calling it Still Cruisin', how about Best of the Beach Boys - 80's playlist? They could take the new songs from the album, plus Kokomo, and surround  them with other 80's recordings - Getcha Back, California Dreaming, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, Where I Belong, It's Gettin' Late, Keepin' the Summer Alive, Goin' On. If they really want to stretch it, Come Go with Me and The Beach Boys Medley were hits in that decade.
I would buy a comp like that. Get Mike and Brian to contribute some recollections of the individual songs.
Mike: Kokomo was our first number one in 22 years, a worldwide hit that outsold Good Vibrations, Help Me Rhonda, I Get Around. It was our biggest hit ever, and I wrote it, with a little help from our producer Terry Melcher, Papa John Phillips, and Scott "San Francisco" Mackenzie. Of course, it didn't hurt that it was in a Tom Cruise movie where he nails the Adventures in Babysitting girl, Elisabeth Shue. Just being in the presence of such a fabulous babe would have me wanting to unleash the love.
Brian: Goin' On is a song I wrote with Mike. That song has merit.
Mike: Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue is another one I wrote with Terry Melcher (he used to produce Paul Revere and the Raiders - Good Thing, baby, yeah! - and The Byrds - to everything Turn, Turn, Turn. Terry decided that my cousin Brian should sing this one. Brian was being treated at the time by Dr. Eugene Landy. It's a drag Brian burned out his brain on drugs - both he and Dennis had major substance abuse issues. I never did; I preferred to meditate instead of medicate. Dr. Landy wanted co-writing credit on this song, and I humbly told him to stick that where the sun don't shine.
Brian: In My Car. That's a cool song. That song has merit.
Mike: Getcha Back. That was the first song I wrote with Terry. We wanted it to sound like Hungry Heart, but Steve Levine's production took all the balls out of it. My cousin Brian impressed us all with his falsetto singing on this track - the best vocal performance he'd recorded since he messed up his mind and body with hard drugs. Did I mention that I meditate every day?
Brian: Keepin' the Summer Alive. Cool song.

Brevity is the soul of wit.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best point in time to break up-if any-to maximize the group's critical standing? on: December 13, 2020, 06:33:36 AM
Back to the original question, my feelings haven't changed on this issue. IMHO, there is no such thing as a good time for ANY act to break up to ensure the legacy. The legacy is the music left behind, everything else fades away.

For example, I'm still disappointed with REM for calling it quits, and I am grateful for the 3/4 reunion I attended (everyone except Stipe). And I'm also disappointed in how things resolved out in BB-land in late 2012, but at least Brian and Al got together. Mixed emotions, yep.

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is better to leave the audience wanting more than it is to overstay your welcome.

REM was a shell of what it was when Bill Berry was in the band. And they knew it. Their peak in popularity was also in the rear view mirror and they were slowly becoming what they said they didn’t want to be: a band putting out albums just for the sake doing so. They honored the contract with Warner Brothers that they signed the year before Berry quit and dissolved the band. There is an argument to be made that they long since outstayed their welcome since every new REM album was starting to be greeted with a “ho hum” response since UP.  They were self aware enough to see that and started to plot their exit strategy. That’s a stance that should be respected, not mourned.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread on: December 09, 2020, 01:09:46 AM
All I have to say about the whole mess is, if the other real Beach Boys don't like what Mike is doing to their legacy, all they have to do is revoke that touring license.
It's that simple.

And Mike would tie BRI up in litigation to the point where it is possible that their respective heirs would be inheriting the suit.

So, no. Not that simple.
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