gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 06:04:23 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3
1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Vintage 66/67 BW Smile Mix List on: September 03, 2023, 10:40:55 AM
Hi all-
apologies if this topic has been covered recently, but for my (and all of our) scholastic purposes, what is the current tally of circulating vintage Smile era mono mixes?

Obviously Cantina mix. the Child is Father of the Man backing track, along with that little I'm in Great Shape fragment from the Durrie Parks acetate. I know there are at least one or two other H&V mix fragments. Maybe I remember hearing some Vegatables mix attempts, and perhaps some mixes of the "Barnshine" outro for Old Master Painter? What am I missing?

Thanks in advance to the great scholars out there who have made the realization of this knowledge possible!!
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's vocal decline - when is it first noticeable to you? on: December 27, 2020, 08:04:52 AM
Brian's voice changing and declining are two quite different things. For a first change to his default sound that wasn't just age, it's probably Summer Days, or post-LSD. You can hear him expanding on that more fully through Pet Sounds, experimenting with different vocal styles, singing in a less 'mannered' way, belting higher notes in his chest voice, etc.

The next noticeable change is Hawaii '67 and Wild Honey. He drops the rounded, Bob Flanigan-y stylings even more fully and starts embracing something closer to his natural speaking voice. It's lighter and the phrasing's less considered. Brian's less likely to slide up into his head voice as one smooth sound, more likely to do a clean break, leaning on the nasal squawkiness as a default rather than just something he can do. And his voice was a little weaker by then from not using it so much on the road - he bails on Wouldn't It Be Nice not because he can't do it, he just doesn't have the energy to do it easily. I don't think that's a notice of any permanent decline though. Probably for the same reason, he started going lower and lower in his head voice to cover parts that he once would've yelled on Pet Sounds.

1968 continues the trend and pushes it further. More nasal squawky high voice, more relaxed conversational full voice. He's avoiding most of the challenging stuff. And it's about here that he starts doing that fragile pushed thing from the front of his throat (I call it 'Elf Brian') that turned into his natural sound through the early 70s, even closer to speak-singing. By the time he does We're Together Again and Walk On By the squawk is in full effect, and when he tries to pull a 1963 Brian on the early Do It Again by singing the bridge up high it comes out incredibly thin and cutting, none of the fullness that used to be there. I'm sure he could've imitated his younger self slightly better with some thought, it's just not the way he sang anymore.

The 'pause' happens, and then I think the first real decline is there in the Break Away scratch vocal. It's good, but you can tell Brian's struggling to do what he used to do without extra effort. Besides not singing very often it'd add up that he first used cocaine in '69. He pulls it together for the final proper opening verses though - that's pretty much the last difficult range-y vocal where you could close your eyes and picture Pet Sounds Brian doing it. By late '69 to early '70 it's really getting noticeable. Thinner, cracking sometimes, less resonance. He's now probably the weak link in the group (after IMO being the strongest & most consistent at the Lei'd in Hawaii shows), although obviously still great when used in the right places. On Games Two Can Play he's doing Busy Doin' Nothin' but it's not happening in the same way. From there I think it's a steady decline from coke and inactivity to Murry dying. In some 1971 stuff his voice is pretty shot.

The 15 Big Ones voice is a whole other cocktail. That's a deliberate, extreme change (plus a lot of actual damage), and I don't think there's much of a suggestion of it until 1974ish. He abused his vocal chords and put on another voice so heavily in such a special combination that it made him metamorphose into Bill Murray. In He Come Down, that's a guy trying to sound like someone else, not a reflection of his natural sound. It's kind of a mystery how that did become his default talking/singing voice so quickly and so thoroughly.

I love this thoughtful analysis, but balk at the notion that Brian became the vocal "weak link" in the group...even as his voice thins and reeds out in the early 70s and he draws into the background, his tone retains that singular "Brian Wilson" quality and tonality that encapsulates the sound of the Beach Boys. To me a perfect example is the bridge/outro on "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone;" once you pick out Brian, in a low-mid range, doing that simple buried "She don't know it" ---- that TONE! Nobody else in the group had that level of pure vibe vocally, even on such a low burn.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Need Help Finding 60s Article About Brian and Smiley Smile on: December 06, 2020, 10:07:42 AM
What do we make of this article, anyway? Lots of minor factual inaccuracies, but also lots of evidence this guy was actually there. Did Brian really think he was Phil Spector? Carnie wasn't born until 1968, so Phil Spector wouldn't be mailing a baby swing gift in July 1967...
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction on: May 12, 2020, 11:50:51 AM
Another amazing vid, thanks for these!
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 12, 2020, 11:50:33 AM
The chambers were a mere 2×3 feet, but the cement lining did wonders to enlarge that.

How is this even possible? Is cement really *that* reflective?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: swdstudyvideos.com (suspended) on: November 08, 2018, 10:04:37 PM
"When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all."

I've never heard a phrase of such pompous, self righteous wind-bag blather like that ever before.  That is all?  That is enough!

thank you
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: swdstudyvideos.com (suspended) on: November 08, 2018, 10:04:21 PM
I'm generally pretty shocked and offended by the celebrity-worshipping, anti-facts tone of much of this thread. When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all.

So how is the museum doing,  Historian Linusoli?   LOL



 

Judging by recent conversations here I'd say not that well
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: swdstudyvideos.com (suspended) on: November 03, 2018, 12:13:00 PM
I'm generally pretty shocked and offended by the celebrity-worshipping, anti-facts tone of much of this thread. When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis vocal presence in SUNSHINE TOMORROW...? on: July 01, 2017, 05:08:19 PM
I hear that "Game of Love" extract as Carl for sure. Dennis is pretty audible on most of the Smiley Smile material, although I find it harder to pick him out on Wild Honey. That's an intriguing idea that he could be on the vocal round of "Aren't You Glad" - I listened to it with that in mind, and could sort of hear him but also sort of hear Carl and Brian, slowed down a little bit. Hard to say!

Last night I was enjoying the Hawaii "Heroes and Villains" rehearsal on headphones, and Dennis is very audibly mixed with Brian in the left channel. Cool to notice!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: August 05, 2016, 05:39:29 PM
If you have a receiver/tuner that isolates left-right channels and puts out a signal into both speakers/headphones, you could get a lot of clarity on the (intermittent) three leads in the verses. That's what we used to do back in the day with "Mess of Help" because it was clear that the track had a lot of panning.

When you do that, you get a gruff Carl who's in play throughout all of the verses, a smoother Carl who is in play during the second half of each verse, where the melody changes as it flows into "...a mess of help to stand alone", and an intermittent Brian adding accents on words in various places.

Sounds to me like Carl might have doubled parts of the gruff vocal, particularly in the third and final verse.

Hard to tell who's singing the "she don't know/she don't know it" lines that followi Carl's "She don't know a thing" in the tag. There are clearly more voices in the tag, which enhances and "thickens" the earlier middle-eight.

I went back and read Adam's 2007 post on this, and I don't think we're too far off in terms of what's going on, but all of that track listing material from Alan is fascinating and I sure wish he would spend some more time trying to figure out what's really where. This is definitely one of a handful of tunes that would have been amazing to watch through the full course of its creation, right down to the mixing, where some of the final mysteries may still be lurking...

Just tried that! Aside from the obvious clean Carl lead, I hear:

1. The "gruff" voice. Maybe Brian? (as it does resemble his 15BO voice). But I'm just not sure. Some of the stylings sound more like Carl to me.
2. A higher pitched, nasal "clean" but shouty voice, which DOES sound a lot like 72-era Brian to me. This voice goes into harmony at points.
3. Maybe yet ANOTHER voice, which goes into a falsetto octave at points, and sounds more like Blondie than anyone else to me.

So maybe as many as 4 vocals on that left channel? And sometimes as little as 2? It does have a kind  of loose group feel....

I have also always identified Brian as the "answer" vocal in the "She Don't know" tag-

EG - She don't-she don't-----------she don't know
         Brian:    SHE DON'T KNOW IT

thoughts?
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: on: August 04, 2016, 09:27:22 PM
the lead vocal, is this a Carl double up?  using two different vocal techniques?  always found this
intriguing how they produced this tune.  would love to hear it accapella (which is nude, oops
I lost my head)

We went into this in some length on the lead vocal thread which I participated in.  I think we came up with it's three vocals, at least two of which are Carl singing, as you say, with two different vocal techiques, and a third unidentified vocalist who might be Brian but is more likely to be Carl again.

Having heard the parts isolated...the third part is Brian, one of 3 songs where he is present vocally (the other two being Marcella and He Come Down)

This aligns with what Mike said at the time regarding Brian's involvement with the album: "Brian was there with 'Marcella', and 'Mess Of Help' has his harmonies with the vocal." He didn't mention "He Come Down" in that sentence, but yes, Brian's there too. Speaking of THAT song....man, that gospel ending is fantastic, with the churchy group harmonies and Blondie wailing away on top!

Ten years after the fact, Carl made this comment regarding CATP "So Tough": "If we had done eight tunes like 'Marcella', it could have been a great rock album, almost a folk-rock album...I wish Brian had been strong enough to produce the record, because it could have been an ass-kicking, great record."

Wait, so we are confirming that Brian is the 3rd lead on Mess of Help ? The one that goes up the octave sometimes? If so, that's a pretty huge revelation! My ears always heard Blondie's tone -- but what the heck do I know?
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys: With Me Tonight. Legendary Radio Broadcasts 1965-1970. on: March 20, 2016, 02:08:55 PM
$10 says this collection includes the post-Smiley Smile Brian radio interview where they play "With Me Tonight"
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Fall Breaks & Back to Winter on: January 22, 2016, 04:51:14 PM
Forever shaking my damn head at the aesthetic wimps that can't get behind Smiley Smile's groundbreaking minimal-art-dada-punk doowop that still sounds ahead of its time today. It is a more radical art statement than I believe Smile would have been, for all its sublime grandiosity.

Bigger ain't always necessarily better, ya know! That's a false dichotomy that was imposed by the breathtaking sweep of Pet Sounds.

Forever shaking my head at the people who get butt hurt when somebody doesn't share their view of Smiley Smile.  Do you really feel the need to defend it so passionately?

Yes! Absolutely!
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Fall Breaks & Back to Winter on: January 22, 2016, 10:29:59 AM
Forever shaking my damn head at the aesthetic wimps that can't get behind Smiley Smile's groundbreaking minimal-art-dada-punk doowop that still sounds ahead of its time today. It is a more radical art statement than I believe Smile would have been, for all its sublime grandiosity.

Bigger ain't always necessarily better, ya know! That's a false dichotomy that was imposed by the breathtaking sweep of Pet Sounds.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if the band had their own Geffen/Azoff/Grant type Manager? on: November 17, 2015, 09:03:24 AM
In a way it feels like David Anderle came the closest to this in 1966. But he may have been more interested in managing Brian Wilson, than the Beach Boys as an entity.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Making the Wild Honey album a classic on: September 24, 2015, 09:49:29 AM
No way! 1967 Beach Boys is as hip as it gets - indie lo-fi 30 years before its time

And any world that presupposes Smiley Smile didn't come out is a world I don't want to live in...
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Making the Wild Honey album a classic on: September 24, 2015, 09:46:54 AM
It's already a classic. The Beach Boys' very own stoned soul picnic. Its minimalistic brevity is a huge part of its appeal, and it definitely doesn't need a bunch of showy set pieces jammed in where they don't belong. (Seriously? Early Good Vibrations?)
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: AND NOW for something completely politically incorrect on: September 06, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Ugh!!! All white Americans are "immigrants"!
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: How did Revolver & Sgt Pepper Affect Brian? on: June 12, 2015, 08:15:23 AM
Isn't there a quote from late 66 where Brian asks the interviewer if he's heard the new Beatles album (which would have been "Revolver"), and goes on to describe it as either spiritual or religious music?

It's hard not to hear the "Grand Coulie" section of Cabin Essence as a direct response to "Tomorrow Never Knows"..both are in C mixolydian, with a superimposed Bb over the drone, and swirling textures that evoke Asian music...if that wasn't a conscious nod I would be shocked!

Of tenuous relation, but years ago my band recorded a cover of "Tomorrow Never Knows" that incorporated the "Cabin Essence" arrangement as its basis, hence kind of a hybrid rendition...
http://ghostpal.bandcamp.com/track/tomorrow-never-knows
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My Witness on: April 21, 2015, 10:39:18 AM
I don't usually come out of the woodwork to post here, but I feel the need to say something about this ridiculously hate-filled original post. Talk about an agenda. I'm certainly not anti-Brian Wilson. In fact, he is my all time musical hero. But speaking as a professional recording engineer, those who have correctly observed the heavy use of tuning software (be it Autotune or Melodyne) on the Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas productions of recent years are not pushing a political agenda. They are accurately using their ears and observing a simple sonic fact. Whether or not you like it, heavy tuning went into the making of these records. To dispute that claim only reveals your unsophisticated listening abilities and lack of knowledge about contemporary recording technology. Okay, I'm out.


What an all encompassing self-indignant statement oh wise one! But far be it from me to disagree - after all you're a recording engineer.

Oddly enough, your recording of Hop, Skip & Jump sounds like it was recorded at the bottom of a trash can. But I don't know anything. I've just recorded with Guided by Voices, Cobra Verde, Death of Samantha and many more.

Heaven forbid if a 72 year old man wants to make a contemporary sounding record that sounds with the times (as opposed to a lo-fi exercise for PBR swilling hipsters).

Ok, leaving out your hilariously unwarranted personal attack against a recording I did in my bedroom when I was still a teenager , and leaving out the debate over the quality of NPP which i did not address in my post - is it seriously your professional opinion that there isn't readily audible pitch correction artifacting all over these records? I am sick of posters with perfectly functional ears getting bullied for using them.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My Witness on: April 21, 2015, 06:47:39 AM
And if whether or not you like some manicured studio crap he put out at the age of 72 determines whether or not you're a true Brian Wilson fan, well that's ridiculous.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: My Witness on: April 21, 2015, 06:46:28 AM
I don't usually come out of the woodwork to post here, but I feel the need to say something about this ridiculously hate-filled original post. Talk about an agenda. I'm certainly not anti-Brian Wilson. In fact, he is my all time musical hero. But speaking as a professional recording engineer, those who have correctly observed the heavy use of tuning software (be it Autotune or Melodyne) on the Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas productions of recent years are not pushing a political agenda. They are accurately using their ears and observing a simple sonic fact. Whether or not you like it, heavy tuning went into the making of these records. To dispute that claim only reveals your unsophisticated listening abilities and lack of knowledge about contemporary recording technology. Okay, I'm out.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BB song co-writes: who wrote what? on: December 08, 2014, 05:27:23 PM
how about other songs like Carl's contributions to "Our Sweet Love"

This one shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Compare the finished product to the demo you can find on Get the Boot.

So you're saying Carl wrote the entire vocal melody and lyric to the song? is the early mix really substantial evidence of such?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The stereo mixes on MIC can't hold a candle to Brian's original work! on: November 20, 2014, 11:12:25 AM
The organ's in there. If you listen to the mono it is gradually ridden up in the mix under the second stanza, blending with Carl's wordless backing and creating a strikingly murky effect. It is a reproducible detail , if the attention were paid

I respect a bit of mix variety in yet another round of rereleases, but the thought of these becoming definitive breaks my heart. So much artistry, soul and inventiveness went into the exact structural formation of those original mixes.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / The stereo mixes on MIC can't hold a candle to Brian's original work! on: November 20, 2014, 11:01:36 AM
Was just listening to the MiC mix of "Do it Again" fondly awaiting that glorious and haunting organ swell in the first verse, so mysterious and inviting . And it was nowhere to be heard! Makes you wonder what the point of it all is. Reject glossy revisionism, respect the intent of genius with all its rough edges!
Pages: [1] 2 3
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.617 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!