Believe it or not, both are possible at the same time.

Please be a good moderator and stop acting this way. Please.

Fer chrissakes.... THIS TRUTHFULLY REPRESENTS HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE ALBUM. WE ARE OF SOUND, MIND, AND BODY, AND THIS REVIEW WAS NOT CREATED UNDER DURESS.

Chance the Rapper released his new "mixtape," Coloring Book, but it's exclusive to Apple Music streaming.

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

You seem to be ignoring all of his actual points in favor of debating with a total of five, randomly-selected words from his post.

I know of a Japanese comic/manga series called Uzumaki which I quite like. It's horror, so it could be what you're looking for, RR.

Well, you see, I'm not fan of J culture/anything (um, broadly speaking, anything Asian) but I will try to fight off my shallow views/prejudice and see if it's good.

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of manga either, but I like this one a whole lot. It has some really cool art in it, like this:


I actually have that on a t-shirt.

I don't mind if you elaborate on/post links to EDM songs or talk about music in general. That's perfectly fine and fits within the confines of this thread. Perhaps I should clarify that neither Judd nor I have any problems with electronic dance music. I didn't think I would need to, but there ya go.

Although it  seems to me that the actual use of  terms like  EDM, Disco, Slick, synthetic horns etc, when relating to the albums production  style are actually meant as not so subtle slurs aimed at The label, Melinda, Joe Thomas, Sebu, the other guest artists ,etc.

Calling one song EDM is a slur against MELINDA. That is some pure, grade-A insanity. The only thing your list reveals is that you think those are negative. If we jump back to our review, we can see the song is classified as a "sh*t" EDM song (and not by me), which obviously means that "EDM" itself does not imply such a descriptor. This same thing is exhibited through the rest of the review. I swear, the reading comprehension of some of yous...

there is a  prevailing theory  shared by some  that Brian would have never actually thought of  ever doing  any of these things himself, left to his own device.  Only when working with Andy Paley and Scott Bennett can we be assured that Brian's actual brush strokes make it to the canvas.

Maybe, but not by me. I'm perfectly willing to accept this is what Brian wants. I still wouldn't think it was good. As stated clearly in the article, we have issues with the production of Brian's album with Scott Bennett. Therefore, we do not only have production criticisms for albums associated with Joe Thomas. I called TLOS "sugary sweet," and Judd called it "lacking in subtlety." Would you like us to have been more negative in our assessments?

Even  when there seem to be obvious examples of  Brian's trademark  production  style on NPP,  such as a great moving pick bass line with tons of echo on it, the reviewer ( or again supposedly the reviewers) infer that it was probably one of the aforementioned interlopers trying to rip off one of Brian's old techniques.

Wow, no; that was never inferred. And are you asking if there really is two of us here, and not just the work of one maniacal poster? There are two reviewers. Plural. S.

Techniques from the good old days before Brian was dragged to the studio and tied down while various handlers auto tune his vocals and force him to work with cruel and nefarious pretend singers like Zooey  Deschanel. Singers who Brian could not possibly have ever heard of before let alone actually like.  Zooey   has  done some pretty amazing cover versions  of Brian's songs. But  according to the this theory, Brian couldn't possibly have been flattered by that, or think she has a cute voice. Or watched her very popular show on TV, or seen any of her movies with his kids. Her collaboration  and the others had to be a bad idea conjured up by some label suit.

What in God's name are you talking about? The only person we brought up is Peter Hollens. He's just some guy on YouTube that does a cappella originals and covers of traditional songs. Were you familiar with him before this album? I sure wasn't. Of course, that doesn't mean Brian wasn't, but he's certainly not a big-name guest star. As for Zooey, I know nothing about their relationship. As has been explained here on this board, they already knew each other.

While I am at it, I also find the criticism of the lyrics on NPP another not so subtle attempt to dis credit or slur the album.  Specifically the albums collaborators. It's  as if there was meant to be  some hidden lyrical genius the rest of us are missing on TLOS .   "Goin Home  Im Goin Home Back to the place where I belong Found piece of mind one piece at a time."  Or  on the Paley sessions  " Some guy walked by hit me in the side Elbow is the thing that keeps me satisfied" .

Seriously, what? You do realize that we're reviewing No Pier Pressure, right? And not That Lucky Old Sun? Are you familiar with the red herring fallacy? I'm becoming confused by people's displeasure with the analysis of the lyrics. They're a part of the music, right? Guys? I praised the lyrics from Kacey Musgraves... or is that me secretly, uh, slurring her? WHAT IS THIS ARGUMENT

I know of a Japanese comic/manga series called Uzumaki which I quite like. It's horror, so it could be what you're looking for, RR.

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.

I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

NPP might very well be Brian's solo Love You with split opinions across the board.

That might not be too far off. Although, I'm heavily pro-Love You. Wonderful album.

@Bubbly Waves; definitely check out the Gershwin album sometime. If you search through the archives of this site, you'll run across a lot of great commentary on the making of the album. I also posted a song-by-song write up/bio for the album on Brian's forum: http://brianwilson.websitetoolbox.com/post/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-apprecation-thread-7894626?trail=15

I think 'Nothing But Love' is in the top 5 of Brian's solo material, and the story behind it makes it that much better.

I own the album, and I will get to it. I know it's supposed to be great. All this other music just keeps getting in the way.
Soon, I promise.

As a fan myself, and knowing as we all learned as children that opinions can and do change, I'm curious *why* in this case, or what made them change so drastically.

Really, there has been no drastic change in opinion for me. See this review I posted four months after the album came out. My opinions have continued to form and solidify the longer I've been familiar with the album. Yes, it seems to be in a negative direction, but that's just what happened. Psychologically-speaking, strong opinions become even more extreme when they're challenged.

I doubt Paul has any desire to become a John Lennon tribute band at this point in his life.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

That's good to know. Your experience with Brian's solo output which is now up to 28 years' worth of solo releases and over a dozen albums including albums of originals and covers plus live releases is limited to a few spins of TLOS, a few more than that for BW 88, and a copy of NPP that sounds like someone gave to you as a gift.

It would seem this thread's rolling commentary on NPP might have come from places other than a love of Brian and caring deeply for what comes down the pike if at least one reviewer admits to not listening to or even knowing Brian's discography other than a few spins of two BW solo albums. I'd also ask at that point if the disappointment in this latest album comes from that lack of knowledge of what Brian's solo music actually is or what it sounded like when he wasn't cutting records with and for the Beach Boys.

Craig, this is bullshit. Please stop trying to discredit my opinion because you don't agree with it. Do I have to read the entire bibliography of Dostoevsky before I can pass judgement on Crime & Punishment? Do I have to watch the entirety of Polanski's films before I can decide whether or not I think Rosemary's Baby is good? It's music, not a foreign language. What it actually sounds like you're saying is the rest of Brian's output is bad, and my expectations would be tempered for this album if I had exposed myself to them. Whatever. Don't presume to know what my feelings for Brian are, lest you hop on Debbie's paranoid weirdo train. I've been a part of this website for 3 years now because I love what he's created, but just like every other human being, he isn't without faults. Additionally, as one extra bonus rebuttal, No Pier Pressure is the only non-compilation, Beach-Boys-related item to "come down the pike" while I've been an active fan.

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

Thanks.

Well, I can't answer your question, as I am not Judd. But if you want to share some new insights or thoughts about the album, or if you disagree with something specifically expressed in the review, then by all means, go ahead. I would rather people didn't just repost old reviews, but shared some more recent opinions.

As for your second point, I don't care what happened previously or how long it took; I just want to end it now here and now in my thread. It's weird that you would expect me to do your job for you, but I'll try to be more prompt next time. Debbie accusing me of lying and being some sort of secret Mike agent is what caused this tangent in the first place.

[or]

All right, let's not continue this argument here in my thread, please. If you want to argue about each other with each other, go make your own thread. If you want to share your opinion of the review and/or of the album or if you want to call me a hipster douche bag because I don't like No Pier Pressure as much as you do, feel free. This is a music thread, so let's stick to that.

You got me, Debbie.

I'm clone #4873218792. We work in service of Mike Love.
Down with Brian Wilson!

Gee "Bubs," I seem to have a distinct memory of your liking your copy of NPP when you first got it.

Yes, I did like it more when I first got it. And thank you for sending it to me. Really.

What happened?

Well, time passed, and I don't like it so much anymore. The shiny novelty has worn off, and I'm less enthused.

What influence made it so "uncool?"

I never called it "uncool," but changing musical taste, I guess? The perspective that time allows? Opinions change.

It's interesting to note who your fans are here.

Now, Debbie, you can't honestly think this is some big, secret scheme. This mentality is so prevalent here, and you all sound like a bunch of paranoid weirdos.

I'm left a little speechless by this batshit crazy characterization of Judd and myself simply because we don't like NPP. It's quite impressive you've managed to get every assumption about me wrong. In reality, it seems like you have a lot of anger towards a certain group of people, and you're lumping us in with them in a pathetic attempt to rationalize our criticisms.

Whatever gets you through the day, man.

Explain your take on why so many  people don't like them.

That's like trying to explain why so many people don't like liquorice. You just take a bite and find yourself repulsed.

I find their music to be incredibly safe and boring. They follow in the footsteps of people like U2, and I dislike U2 even more.

Thanks for all the kinds, everyone. Judd and I were happy to read all of them. We haven't entirely decided if we'll do more for the board or not, but we'll keep your requests in mind.

I've been secretly hoping you would jump in at some point with some Flying Nun talk, Alan.

I might think "Pyromaniac" is a better song than "Death and The Maiden," though.