“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.

Is this the first official reference to Feel Flows from Capitol & the group?

I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

I think the balance of the mixes would be more due to Carl & Brian’s sensibilities rather than Desper’s. Also, drums further back in the mix work better in multi-layered productions like Sunflower.

The shaker on "All I Wanna Do" is kinda like the cowbell on "Slip On Through" - the source instrument was not used in a way that is typical, before or since. The cowbell on "Slip On Through" brings to mind the sound of rhythmic crickets or grasshoppers IMO. Which is tbh a genius production move from Dennis, considering the lyrical content ... puts one in mind of the "place" the song inhabits occurring late at night, and also implies the protagonist waiting impatiently for some type of response from the subject of his affections.

... what if this "samples" release *is* the copyright dump release? i.e., only the samples ... which if I understand correctly, would protect the copyrights.

I was just listening to the basic track of All I Wanna Do on those samples. Does anyone else think the drums on that might be an early drum machine? C-Man, do you know one way or another?

Definitely not; those are real drums. No drum machine could sound like that in 1969. The Rhythm King can be heard on tracks like "Lady", "'Til I Die", and "Big Sur", but is (to my ears) augmented by additional percussion in most cases. The original intro to "Lady" sounds like the raw Rhythm King, for example.

The reason Sea of Tunes stops at 1968-69 is because Capitol owns those masters, and BRI owns Sunflower and on. There’s definite grey area on the Reverberation tracks. Songs like “San Miguel”, “Got to Know the Woman” and several others, began on 8-track, and were later transferred to 16 when the group obtained a 3M M-56 16-track in 1969. The Capitol songs from the same period like “Celebrate the News” and “Break Away” were completed on 8-track.

His delivery was pretty all over the place, but the gist of the speech IMO was:

The Beach Boys are regular working class people, we still perform, we set aside our differences to be here, we’re for harmony in the world- whereas the rock n roll elite think they’re better than everyone else- and loosely equating the attitude of the rock elite with the greater attitude of the Western world.

And everybody, from the audience full of industry people, to fandom who had a chance to read/hear that speech, knew that such a sentiment was a crock of s**t. While it's debatable how "working class" the various members were pre-fame, certainly by 1988 their "working class" days had ended circa 1962 or so. And, the band was already known as not being "all about harmony." The Gaines book was out by then, and many elements of the band's and the individual members' reputations were already in place by then.

It was received as an ironic, hypocritical speech *back in 1988*, and in the intervening years has become only *more* ironic and hypocritical. In later years, the band usually *couldn't* set aside differences to do things together. Mike didn't turn up at the Hawthorne landmark dedication. When he did the Grammy luncheon thing in the early 2000s, he and Al stayed as far away from each other as possible. And then there are the numerous lawsuits.

Barring 2012, the reputation of the Beach Boys as a powerhouse rock act only got worse after 1988.

McCartney certainly learned more lessons than Mike did. Cut to decades later, and it's Mike who can't be in the same room with Melinda while Paul and Yoko are holding hands doing red carpet events, and all the group and solo Beatles stuff gets cross-promoted on all platforms. Meanwhile, Brian and Al have to call out Mike's own touring band multiple times in the same year, Mike says in interviews he can't even be bothered to listen to Brian's solo stuff let alone cross-promote anything, and the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying there's not a single germ of an interesting point buried in Mike's speech. But he didn't convey any of those points well, or succinctly, or efficiently, and he had zero credibility being the person to try to impart any of those points.

I don't disagree with anything here. I still think the speech was a good move in that context, and the point made was valid. Possibly just the subversive nature of it is appealing.

Johnny Rotten's was better for sure: http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/johnny-rotten-hall-of-fame.jpg

I mean, having a good point and making it in a controversial and bold way - however muddied the delivery may have been - are not mutually exclusive with also being kind of a dick or a hypocrite.

Mike Love is historically, in my view, a talented guy who played an important role in the Beach Boys ... and also something of a prick.

“Brian Wilson is a genius”. “Yeh but again, he also did drugs.”
 

Brian Wilson having done drugs, says absolutely NOTHING whatsoever about the quality of his character. This only equates to acts self harm, self medication... it was not bile inflicted on others to preserve some sort of narcissistic, pathetic sense of self, like his shithead (and sometimes talented, when he wants to be) cousin.

Brian's a very decent man who OWNS UP to his failings and that's the big, big difference why I don't look at him and see any sort of "but".

The only "but" is the tragedy of how much more the man could have achieved if he had a better support system in place when he needed it, which sadly does include the tragedy of "what if" he hadn't done so much drugs. Again, nothing to with his character, unless you find an abused person's compulsive need to self-medicate some sort of "character flaw" (I don't).

Everyone else on that list is IMO objectively a bad person, to varying degrees. I mean, if you want to be really generous, you can find traces of "good person" traits (probably) in every single person you'd ever come across. Mike's the least bad of the other 2 baddies on that list, but I'd not on the whole call him a good person in my view.  

I don’t think BW doing drugs is a negative trait personally. I’m saying being a genius is not mutually exclusive to doing drugs. Being a great producer is not mutually exclusive to being a murderer. And making a cool record is not mutually exclusive to being Charles Manson. To illustrate that Mike Love having a point and making what I consider to be a cool speech, is not mutually exclusive to also being a hypocrite and a jerk.

I’m using familiar “Yeh but ...” statements that are used to discredit a thing, like many posters are doing here w/ Mike’s speech. That is to say, “he’s a dick and a hypocrite” doesn’t mean the speech doesn’t have valid points.

But I don’t believe anyone is “objectively” a “good” or “bad” person (I think that idea is dangerous), so agree to disagree there.

I mean, having a good point and making it in a controversial and bold way - however muddied the delivery may have been - are not mutually exclusive with also being kind of a dick or a hypocrite.

Mike Love is historically, in my view, a talented guy who played an important role in the Beach Boys ... and also something of a prick.

“Brian Wilson is a genius”. “Yeh but again, he also did drugs.”

“Phil Spector was a great producer.” “Yeh but he’s a convicted murderer.”

“Charles Manson made a fantastic record.” “Yeh but the CIA MKUltra’d his ass via their covert CHAOS program ...”

His delivery was pretty all over the place, but the gist of the speech IMO was:

The Beach Boys are regular working class people, we still perform, we set aside our differences to be here, we’re for harmony in the world- whereas the rock n roll elite think they’re better than everyone else- and loosely equating the attitude of the rock elite with the greater attitude of the Western world.

Also (from Wikipedia): “Ali was known for being a humanitarian[219] and philanthropist.[220][221] He focused on practicing his Islamic duty of charity and good deeds, donating millions to charity organizations and disadvantaged people of all religious backgrounds. It is estimated that Ali helped to feed more than 22 million people afflicted by hunger across the world.“

I want to thank Mike Love for his continued uncanny ability to invent new and novel ways of making me embarrassed to be a Beach Boys  fan, well into the 21st Century!

I think Mike does these things just to get his name in the headlines. Remember his speech at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? He's never shown any remorse for that; in his view, it was good publicity for the Beach Boys, who were going to be overshadowed by the Fab Four and Robert Zimmerman. "I'm gonna make sure all the headlines aren't about Ms. Ross and Macca not showing up".

I actually think Mike’s speech at the HOF was kinda cool.

Most didn't, both in the audience and in the public. It cemented his poor reputation, and the speech is even more ironic and hypocritical now in retrospect. Objectively, it did nothing good for the band or Mike.

There are ways to give a punk-attitude, tell-it-like-it-is, rebellious speech at the R&R HOF. Mike's speech was not that. He called out Mick Jagger for not being there even though Jagger was there. He patted himself on the back for doing more gigs per year than the deceased John Lennon. He called out McCartney and Diana Ross for being hung up on lawsuits, even though Mike did and does have a world-famous reputation for being litigious. Mike set up Bob Dylan and Elton John to give better speeches/one-liners in response to Mike's speech.

He was clearly hopped up on the apple juice, and the execution was poor - but I would argue that the act was admirable. Then again, I dislike the rock n roll hall of fame and much of what it stands for and represents. And I think Mike’s points were true- however poorly, he was giving an F You to the rock elite, which I do indeed think was cool.

Sometimes I wonder if the guy is just subversive. Maybe he’s not even a Trump supporter.

Right....but Joe's you ain't black or Hilary's fake southern drawl in a southern baptist church gets crickets. Actions speak louder than words some might say. A common play of the left is to claim someone said all people when an observation is made. When did Trump call all Mexicans rapists, etc? Find the quote. Likely not but you'll find the claim coming from all over the left.

I'm not a Biden supporter, so your point makes no sense to me. I subscribe to Noam Chomsky's recommendation: If you are in a swing state, vote for the lesser of two evils (Biden is clearly evil but clearly the lesser here). If you are in a full red or blue state, vote third party.

So you're saying it's okay for Trump and his supporters to make racist statements just because Biden and Clinton made more mild, offensive statements that one time? Cool, makes a lot of sense bro.

I want to thank Mike Love for his continued uncanny ability to invent new and novel ways of making me embarrassed to be a Beach Boys  fan, well into the 21st Century!

I think Mike does these things just to get his name in the headlines. Remember his speech at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? He's never shown any remorse for that; in his view, it was good publicity for the Beach Boys, who were going to be overshadowed by the Fab Four and Robert Zimmerman. "I'm gonna make sure all the headlines aren't about Ms. Ross and Macca not showing up".

I actually think Mike’s speech at the HOF was kinda cool.

[50]

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Am I not thinking hard enough, or are you not reading hard enough?

I said it’s racially and culturally insensitive to use the term “Chinese virus”. That’s not particularly controversial or debatable. Providing logical explanations for why people might “innocently” use an offensive term is not a valid defense IMO. It’s a cop out.

Ha “virtue signaling”, gimme a break. Clearly you’ve yet to see it because you see what you want to see. I personally learned about Coronavirus for the first time back in January via a Chinese American  friend who casually mentioned “everyone is looking at me funny when I sneeze”. Open your eyes, or get out of your Breitbart bubble or something.

[50]

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term. Asian-Americans are a diverse group. Of course there are some who might support Trump and might not find it offensive. I'm not talking about stigmatizing the people of the country of China. That's a reasonable topic, but not anything I'm commenting on. I'm talking about use of the term "Chinese virus" by the President (and others) is racially insensitive to Asian-Americans. I can't believe I'm having to explain this, but terms like "Chinese" and "Mexican" are commonly used in America to described large, diverse groups of Americans. And Trump uses these terms to stigmatize these groups and provoke members of his base who are receptive to racism and xenophobia. This is part of why he is so dangerous. And I would argue while the problems that have lead to the recent protests against inequality have always existed, Trump and Trumpism are quite likely some of the primary reasons why we are seeing this at this moment in history.

2- You said "The Proud Boys have African American members". I said just because an organization "has an African American member" does not mean they are not a racist group. I am struggling to understand what is controversial, misquoted, or misrepresented there. Here are some quotes from Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys founder (a white man): "I love being white, and I think it's something to be very proud of. I don't want our culture diluted. We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life." "I want violence. I want punching in the face. I'm disappointed in Trump supporters for not punching enough."

I don't understand what your intention is here.

But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

I can't wait to hear the whataboutism, and pretzel-twisting responses you're gonna get to those by deranged pro-Trumpers.

Or how about when Trump mocked the disabled reporter? (Oh yeah, that was just Trump accidentally moving his arms in a way that was not intended to be a mockery, right?)

But you know, mocking people with challenges is par for the course with the Trumps and with Mike, those guys have no problem mocking Brian, a guy who continues to suffer from various issues but has bravely overcome *so* much in his life... Mike just last week was talking in an incredibly disrespectful way about Brian, as if Brian's a child, in Mike's recent interview talking about Brian "coming out to play"...  or Trump Jr. bragging with glee about having "successfully triggered" Brian Wilson into being outraged about killing animals for fun.

And Mike simply standing by, like the Proud Boys, with no response to that "trigger" comment whatsoever. Mike has zero tact and zero class, and neither do the Trumps. And that just scratches the surface of how awful the Trumps are, and how gross it is for the BBs brand to be associated.

But yeah, I'm sure these wonderful, ethical pro-Trump BBs fans will excuse all of these things, too.

Trump and Mike deserve each other.  Absolute trash.

Re: the Chinese virus.

- Asian media called it the "Wuhan Virus"... Example here and here.
- New York Times called it the Chinese Coronavirus.
- Washington Post called it the Chinese Coronavirus
- I can list a plethora of more examples of these headlines that dated around January before Trump started calling it the Chinese virus - at which point the media called him racist and then proceeded to not mention "Chinese" in the name subsequently.

My point being that, whether or not it is right or wrong to name a virus (or call a virus) after it's place of origin (such as Zika, Marburg, Lyme, etc), NO ONE on the left is calling the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post racist for mentioning China/Wuhan in their description of the virus. It's these types of double standards that give Trump a bit of leeway with moderate voters. Does Trump keep calling it the Chinese virus because he hates Asians? I doubt it, as 30% of Asian-Americans support him (as of last month) and he needs their votes. It's more likely that since the media called it the "Chinese" virus at the beginning of the pandemic it just further proves a point about double standards whenever someone calls him racist for saying it. Billy Hinsche or Carls's half Asian-American sons may absolutely hate Trump because of his continued mentioning of "Chinese virus", and more power to them if so - however, that 30% of Asian Americans still support the president proves that some Asian-Americans are not offended by Trump naming the country of origin when referring to the virus.

On a side note, he did call it the Kung Flu on one (or more) occasions - I'm not sure how this could be construed, perhaps racist? A really stupid/bad joke? Both?

As for Trump mocking the disabled reporter: this video shows that Trump made the exact same hand/flailing gestures when mocking other people he disagreed with...and the footage is taken from events that took place before the date he supposedly mocked the reporter's disability. If he was mocking the reporter's disability, then absolutely shame on him. But the fact that he made the exact same hand gestures on multiple occasions when referring to people who didn't have that disability makes me question the validity of the claim.

Re: the Proud Boys. Not that you really delved into that subject, but I do want to clear up confusion about that too. As I heard that the Proud Boys were supposedly a white supremacist group (Joe Biden claimed this at the first debate). The Proud Boys leader is a half-Cuban half-black male. The Proud Boys have African American members. That does not at all sound like a white supremacist group to me, or they have an absolutely abysmal screening process. There was actually a Joe Rogan podcast where the founding of the Proud Boys was explained: it was created as a joke to help a jewish intern get laid...again, if they are a white supremacist group they are really doing a poor job. CD, not that you said they were white supremacists, but I have heard this rumor a lot and thought I'd clear it up for anyone who didn't know this.

Is Trump a jackass? Yes! In fact, someone posted a great cited response earlier about all the garbage stuff Trump has done. But I just wanted to throw my two cents in about the above topics.

Going to have to disagree with you there, rab. You seem like a fine person and I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but Trump is an absolute gutter trash POS. Not just a mere jackass. There's nothing in his narcissistic personality that would tell me it would be out of character for him to mock a disabled person. Nothing whatsoever. I don't think anything is below him. At all.

That said, do I think that sometimes the media spins things a bit far and twists some of the things he did in order to push a narrative? To some degree yes. There are some incidents of things being taken out of context and twisted a bit. But the overwhelming amount of time, it's him acting like an absolute piece of crap without an ounce of tact.

Neither Trump nor Mike Pence could muster even a tiny morsel of empathy or understanding about the idea of racial injustice and systemic racism. They don't necessarily have to agree with every single talking point that the left might say on that, but to 100% literally completely stonewall that, when there is so much evidence to the contrary? And then to have the *unmitigated chutzpah* to compare himself to Abraham Lincoln in terms of being a great president for black citizens?  Well that's literally like Mike Love saying he has 10 times more talent than Brian Wilson. That's the level of ridiculous such a quote is. That's so unbelievably insulting and tactless. It's abhorrent.  Those guys are experts at gaslighting, just like Mike.

Every single day when Trump does something new that is more abhorrent than the next, I have to double check that I'm not reading The Onion.

Again, massive narcissism on a massive scale, gone unchecked. It's so incredibly troubling. You can hear the contempt Trump has in his voice when he annunciates "Chiiiiiiiina virus", it's all about his deflection for trying to distract for his massive shortcomings during Covid. Even if the term was coined and used elsewhere, he still INSISTS on using that term solely for that purpose. To get a bunch of frothing, uneducated MAGA yokels in trailer parks riled up and chanting USA, USA, and getting them embittered at foreign countries. Sounds like a great thing for a US president to be deliberately inciting for the sole reason of pumping up his own ego and to disguise his shortcomings.

And Mike, well not nearly as big of a POS as Trump, is also absolute trash for continually either mocking/belittling Brian or rubbing the "Wilsons did drugs" line endlessly - just look at that lifestyles of the rich and famous clip where he says it, directly followed by talking about how great he is. It's just to puff himself up. It's that same disgusting warped mindset. Both Donald Trump and Mike Love have very sick narcissistic tendencies, and warped senses of right and wrong.

Has systemic racism been accepted as fact? By some I guess.  By others it has been clearly debunked. Please have a look at Adam Carolla's experience with "white privilege".  Mocking a disabled person? It has been fact checked by many that it wasn't the case. Also remember Trump is still considers an anti-semite despite his Jewish family and moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Also blamed for building Obama's cages. Why bother getting the facts out when a narrative can be kept?

“Accepted as fact”? Wtf. Why does it have to be accepted as fact to be part of the cultural fabric of America. There are countless studies and statistics to support it, but why do you need those when you can just look around? Assuming you’ve never been followed around at a convenience store for being black. Assuming you’ve never been been pulled over by a cop for being black. Assuming you’ve never watched both black and white children be presented with a pair of identical dolls - one white, one black - and they continually refer to the black one as the “bad” doll and the “ugly” doll.

Highly recommend picking up any book by James Baldwin or Huey Newton to at least learn about a different perspective in the history of your country. Or just go on YouTube and watch the debate between Baldwin and someone who is probably one of your heroes, conservative star and royal piece of sh*t William Buckley:

https://youtu.be/oFeoS41xe7w

But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

I can't wait to hear the whataboutism, and pretzel-twisting responses you're gonna get to those by deranged pro-Trumpers.

Or how about when Trump mocked the disabled reporter? (Oh yeah, that was just Trump accidentally moving his arms in a way that was not intended to be a mockery, right?)

But you know, mocking people with challenges is par for the course with the Trumps and with Mike, those guys have no problem mocking Brian, a guy who continues to suffer from various issues but has bravely overcome *so* much in his life... Mike just last week was talking in an incredibly disrespectful way about Brian, as if Brian's a child, in Mike's recent interview talking about Brian "coming out to play"...  or Trump Jr. bragging with glee about having "successfully triggered" Brian Wilson into being outraged about killing animals for fun.

And Mike simply standing by, like the Proud Boys, with no response to that "trigger" comment whatsoever. Mike has zero tact and zero class, and neither do the Trumps. And that just scratches the surface of how awful the Trumps are, and how gross it is for the BBs brand to be associated.

But yeah, I'm sure these wonderful, ethical pro-Trump BBs fans will excuse all of these things, too.

Trump and Mike deserve each other.  Absolute trash.

Re: the Chinese virus.

- Asian media called it the "Wuhan Virus"... Example here and here.
- New York Times called it the Chinese Coronavirus.
- Washington Post called it the Chinese Coronavirus
- I can list a plethora of more examples of these headlines that dated around January before Trump started calling it the Chinese virus - at which point the media called him racist and then proceeded to not mention "Chinese" in the name subsequently.

My point being that, whether or not it is right or wrong to name a virus (or call a virus) after it's place of origin (such as Zika, Marburg, Lyme, etc), NO ONE on the left is calling the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post racist for mentioning China/Wuhan in their description of the virus. It's these types of double standards that give Trump a bit of leeway with moderate voters. Does Trump keep calling it the Chinese virus because he hates Asians? I doubt it, as 30% of Asian-Americans support him (as of last month) and he needs their votes. It's more likely that since the media called it the "Chinese" virus at the beginning of the pandemic it just further proves a point about double standards whenever someone calls him racist for saying it. Billy Hinsche or Carls's half Asian-American sons may absolutely hate Trump because of his continued mentioning of "Chinese virus", and more power to them if so - however, that 30% of Asian Americans still support the president proves that some Asian-Americans are not offended by Trump naming the country of origin when referring to the virus.

On a side note, he did call it the Kung Flu on one (or more) occasions - I'm not sure how this could be construed, perhaps racist? A really stupid/bad joke? Both?

As for Trump mocking the disabled reporter: this video shows that Trump made the exact same hand/flailing gestures when mocking other people he disagreed with...and the footage is taken from events that took place before the date he supposedly mocked the reporter's disability. If he was mocking the reporter's disability, then absolutely shame on him. But the fact that he made the exact same hand gestures on multiple occasions when referring to people who didn't have that disability makes me question the validity of the claim.

Re: the Proud Boys. Not that you really delved into that subject, but I do want to clear up confusion about that too. As I heard that the Proud Boys were supposedly a white supremacist group (Joe Biden claimed this at the first debate). The Proud Boys leader is a half-Cuban half-black male. The Proud Boys have African American members. That does not at all sound like a white supremacist group to me, or they have an absolutely abysmal screening process. There was actually a Joe Rogan podcast where the founding of the Proud Boys was explained: it was created as a joke to help a jewish intern get laid...again, if they are a white supremacist group they are really doing a poor job. CD, not that you said they were white supremacists, but I have heard this rumor a lot and thought I'd clear it up for anyone who didn't know this.

Is Trump a jackass? Yes! In fact, someone posted a great cited response earlier about all the garbage stuff Trump has done. But I just wanted to throw my two cents in about the above topics.

I’ve got no love for left wing propaganda outlets like The NY Times and WA Post. Yes they paint Trump in a particular way, just as Fox News paints any Democrat however they want for their agenda.

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.

Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example. Granted he himself was in the high risk group, but there are countless people who have died who seemed healthy and were not obese or elderly. I'd like to see the people in this thread who are downplaying Covid and observe how they would react if their own healthy spouse or child died from Covid, would their tune change? Not that I'm wishing that on anybody, but I have a suspicion that they would not be of that same mindset anymore if something like that happened to them.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Did you feel that way when the dems called closing the borders xenophobic? How about when Pelosi said don't worry, come down to the street part y in Chinatown? Or when Deblasio said to come out into the streets and not be afraid. Please let us know.

"Closing the borders" as a concept in and of itself is not xenophobic. Trump's rhetoric however, is not only xenophobic but also blatantly racist - under any definition of the term. He's a failed and dangerous leader. Look at us today vs. the Obama years. As a whole. Come on man. And I'm no fan of Obama (or Biden). But at least Obama was a reasonable leader. Even George W Bush was. We're in lala land at this point.

But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

 Again IMO it’s totally appropriate to tell someone to F OFF when they are out of line and personally offensive. I’m all for Discussing differing points of view in a calm and civilized manner, yet I’m sure we can all think of things that cross that line and are not worthy of discussion. If someone comes up to you on the street and grabs your A$$, are you gonna have a calm convo w/ them about how sexual assault is inappropriate, and you disagree with their position that it’s okay to grab a stranger? Or are you gonna say F OFF?!?

Cases in point - in my opinion- one poster says that the “protests” are “racist”, which is a familiar right wing talking point for those who are opposed to equality because they think white supremacy doesn’t exist. Which is personally offensive to me in a way that I’m over arguing with anyone about. Another poster and the F-ing President refers to cities such as where I live and love, as “decrepit”, etc.

People don’t like Trump because he is failed and dangerous, as a leader. Regardless of politics. His politics are certainly not conservative anyway IMO.

Can I implore people to be civil, even when faced with opinions that you may find extremely upsetting? We have to learn (or re-learn) to have some tolerance for views that dont match our own.  There are some opinions that have been stated here that I disagree with 100%, but that's okay.  The hate and division have to stop somewhere.

I think we can respectfully discuss political differences - I personally am not firmly liberal nor conservative. I’ve registered Independent, Republican, and Democrat to vote for various candidates over the years.

But when statements made in this thread are personally offensive to me, I respond appropriately.

A lot of TDS on this thread. Whatever you think of him, please remember he is the first President in decades to not start a war. Brokered the middle east peace deal. Remember the guarantees from CNN, MSNBC, and many in the media? The economy will crash, Russian collusion will be proven, minority unemployment will hit all time highs, there will be a war with North Korea, the embassy will not be moved to Jerusalem, the stock market will crash,. How many of these have panned out? Trump donates his salary. But he won't denounce white supremacy right? Oh only dozens of times. Look at all the decrepit democratic run cities....hmmm? When a story comes out about Biden's corruption FB and Twitter ban it. They claim not verified while allowing countless Trump stories to remain up even after being debunked. The fact that this post will probably force this thread to be locked  because it shines a good light on The President after pages of open Trump bashing has been allowed might be something to think about.

He’s close to starting a civil war with his complete and absolute lack of leadership and any sense of responsibility. I don’t care for Biden either - and I’m not a Democrat.

You’re drinking the kool-aid bro - “decrepit Democrat run cities” ha. It’s always beautiful here in Oakland CA - but clearly you’re watching Fox News and listening to Trump’s propaganda or something.

I agree with you and the right wing on Facebook, Twitter, etc - censorship in every way. Who the hell is FB - one of the shadiest corporations to ever exist - to tell me what is “disinformation”? Ha. But two wrongs don’t make a right. Trump is exceedingly dangerous. We’ve all been warned. Biden is by far the lesser of two evils. And they are both evil indeed.

As a huge Beach Boys fan and a strong conservative centered around the importance of values, morals and ethics, I'm proud that Mike is playing the Trump sponsored concert.   For all my other musical 'heroes' that have supported the politics of hatred, divide, racism and suppression of freedoms (liberals), I'm glad that the Beach Boys band name is being represented on the right side of history.    Congrats to Mike.   Remember, the thoughts shared on these boards are not as widespread as you'd like to believe.   Americans in the vast majority of states, cities and counties elected Trump as our President because he stood for the political decisions/directions we so desired after being on the brink of a civil war with President Obama.   The seething anger of racism generated by that man's words and actions were unlike anything this country had saw, but the media and these boards rarely bothered to notice or report.  

For fucks sake, you’re completely missing the point that they’re playing a concert for a crowd during a pandemic. I don’t give a sh*t about Mike’s politics or your politics, it doesn’t change that it’s stupid and dangerous and against CDC guidelines.

Hi Rocky.  No, I didn't miss that point.  I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'.   Survival rates are over 99.9% and nearly half of the reported deaths are dying WITH COVID, not OF COVID.  And American numbers include all the states where liberal Governors placed COVID patients in nursing homes with those most susceptible!  I live near Lancaster, PA where this occurred.  It was truly heartbreaking.  The elderly were killed and then the numbers are now used on Biden ads as political fodder.   The numbers are completely overstated and the real truth is in overall deaths from year to year.   We all have family in the medical field and some in the undertaking field continually exposing death certificates where COVID was slapped on because of the financial incentives.  We also all have families with real examples of healthy people dying of COVID.  No doubt, the virus is real and dangerous, but its been totally blown out of proportion for government control which is making much worse scenarios than simply protecting those most vulnerable.  Luckily, Trump cut off travel to China early on.   Remember, the experts stated for years including this spring that masks do nothing.   Now, people are turning against each other because they bought into the hype that MY MASK PROTECTS YOU.   No, your mask is having more ill affects on you having to breathe your own 'exhaust' all day long.   We could publicize stories on a daily basis of heathly individuals dying from a variety of common illnesses.   This was an evil political opportunity.  For instance, cancer patients are in much higher numbers and always have been more susceptible to illnesses and we didn't care for them with COVID-like precautions??   And obviously, the media is outraged by Trump's rallies but has no problem with the racist protestors that rioted in our USA cities and streets most of the summer months???

What “racist protestors” are you talking about dude? If you’re implying civil rights protests in the name of equality for black people is “racist” against white people like I think you are, you can GO F*U*C*K* YOURSELF and I don’t care if I get banned for saying it.

And Mike Love is a piece of sh*t for playing a Trump fundraiser, he can f*** off too. Though I still love Wild Honey.

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

This is a good example about how all of these guys are sometimes just effing weird.

Some others theorized Al misheard you. I doubt it. I think he heard correctly, and reacted in that strange way. I would guess maybe he wasn't offended, but I do think he and all of the guys to varying degrees (especially Al, Mike, and Bruce who toured much more during the BB years than Brian did) often still fall back into the mode of being trigger-shy/apprehensive about "non-hit" material, or "less well known" material.

Sometimes the guys, especially in the years after Carl's death in the 2000s, have embraced the obscure stuff more to varying degrees (Brian and Al more so than Mike, but even Mike has done more deep cuts in the 2000s than he ever did in the 80s or 90s). But they also have it baked into their brains that "Obscure Deep Cuts" = something potentially bad. Lukewarm response for the audience, promoters being annoyed you're not doing more hits, all sorts of stuff.

So I think Al has often embraced deep cuts, and ironically has *specifically* singled out the track "Lookin' at Tomorrow" NUMEROUS times over the years. He added it back to the BB setlist in 1983 for awhile, during the height of the quickie-oldies-show-after-a-baseball-game era. Al also did the song with his "Family & Friends" band in 1999 and at subsequent solo shows in the 2000s, and then also of course with Brian's band.

It's one of his go-to Al-centric deep cuts, and in the same year he was probably doing the song in concert, he also could have easily been taken aback and felt trigger-shy about doing the song.

I asked Brian in a Yahoo online chat in 2000 if he'd ever do "Sail on Sailor" in concert, and he insisted he would *never* perform it. Then a year later he performed it.

I saw one of the few Brian/Al joint shows in 2007 (the infamous one where Brian decided to lay down and take a nap on stage), and Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

I think sometimes when Al thinks of a track from like 1971, he sometimes remembers the negative stuff and associates it with that. Other times, he is able to just look at the pure music and discuss how good it is.

This is why it's hard to trust how they feel about material and how they'll act towards it, either in concert or on archival releases, etc. It can change all the time. Al said in 2012 interviews that the reunion was a "one last time" sort of thing, yet I absolutely think he also really thought (naively) that the reunion would or could be permanent.

These guys are pro at contradicting themselves and each other.

It's been a couple years now (this was around October 2018), so I don't remember the exact convo - but I think you are right ... his response was bizarre, and these guys are bizarre at times. And tbh I was taken aback by meeting him in this way - as a fan. My take at the time was that he didn't think it fit with the vibe or image of the type of show he was doing. Like, "postcard from California"/folk tales of BB songs type of thing ... like Lookin At Tomorrow was political, etc. That was my take, but who the F knows ... no idea where he would have confused it with "Never Learn Not To Love", that's a real stretch ha.

EDIT: I remember a little more- I believe I said, "I'm surprised you didn't play 'Lookin' At Tomorrow" ... it wasn't like I was telling him he should have or requesting it ... made the response even more weird. I might have even said, "Since you played Surf's Up, I'm surprised you didn't play Take A Load off Your Feet or Lookin At Tomorrow", and he could have even said something like, "No, Lookin at Tomorrow is not ... [big pensive pause with offended look] ... it's not right ... you can't ... it's ... it's not appropriate ..." ... it was that weird man. I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words, but that was the general gist of the interaction.

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."