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651330 Posts in 26029 Topics by 3713 Members - Latest Member: ficuswhisperer October 17, 2019, 10:32:52 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 03, 2019, 10:55:57 PM
And it's true ... if I'm being honest, the board has always been troubled, but the types of conversations that used to be so interesting are now filled with some kind of undercurrent of politics.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 03, 2019, 10:51:49 PM
Donny, all personal squabbles and shots taken at this board aside, do you not agree that Mike Love has a history of trying to take more credit for the band's success and legacy than is due in reality, and doing so in large part by bringing up the problems with the Wilson brothers? It feels like he has too often tried to elevate himself by denigrating the Wilsons, and back to the topic of Ron's book with Rocky, that same emphasis on the negative regarding the Wilsons while overreaching on the credit  given Mike seems to be the main issue people seem to have as a negative opinion on the book.


*shots at the board = posters like OSD create an unsavory environment, in which folks are not able to state a simple opinion without him "reframing" it to suggest some kind of brainwashing by Mike Love. I would ask you if you think that kind of post contributes to be type of board you want to see.

And I agree 100% with what you wrote above. But doesn't mean there's not some truth in Mike's position ... he clearly has a chip on his shoulder about it all.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 03, 2019, 10:12:30 PM
CONTROVERSIAL POST WARNING:

I will give Mike significantly more credit than most on this board for his *creative contribution* to the early '60s hits ... even go out on a limb and say his contributions to some of these hits were near-equal to Brian's from a *commercial* standpoint. I don't think Bruce was wrong in that doc when he said Mike "translated" Brian's tunes into something for the masses.

BUT -- Mike taking "The Beach Boys" on the road year after year, without the actual Beach Boys, does nothing to keep the "group" alive. I can't imagine it being anything but *bad* for their reputation, as noted above. I understand all involved parties benefit financially as a result ... and I'm fairly certain that is the main factor in why the enterprise continues.

-100 on the first paragraph. If that is what you believe then you are falling victim to what Mike has been trying in vain to do by rewriting history and convincing people that Brian relied on him to write the hits. It's hard to believe that anyone could ever fall for Love's ultimate goal in that he's as talented as Brian Wilson. But I do concur with your second paragraph wholeheartedly.

Hence the controversy -- that we can not play politics for once on this board, and give credit where credit is due ... while also calling out the parts that are shitty.

I'm not "falling victim" to anything except my own ears and understanding of the group, their music, and their history. Brian wrote plenty of hits without Mike ... and clearly, some may argue that Brian's artistry would have been better off without him. BUT let's not minimize the commercial value of a round-round-get-around-bom-bom-dip-di-dip ... those are the HOOKS ... let's not overstate the commercial value of the weirder aspects of the best creations from Brian. My opinion is Brian knew quite well his strengths and limitations, which is why he worked with Mike in the way he did. And the commercial success of the early records gave Brian an outlet for Pet Sounds to happen.

Additionally -- with all due respect, this is where you're a toxic poster man, and quite frankly why this place is the pits to visit these days. "If you believe this, you're brainwashed ..." HA gimme a break

You're baiting people into arguing by making it personal *RIGHT OFF THE BAT*
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: February 03, 2019, 05:26:03 PM
CONTROVERSIAL POST WARNING:

I will give Mike significantly more credit than most on this board for his *creative contribution* to the early '60s hits ... even go out on a limb and say his contributions to some of these hits were near-equal to Brian's from a *commercial* standpoint. I don't think Bruce was wrong in that doc when he said Mike "translated" Brian's tunes into something for the masses.

BUT -- Mike taking "The Beach Boys" on the road year after year, without the actual Beach Boys, does nothing to keep the "group" alive. I can't imagine it being anything but *bad* for their reputation, as noted above. I understand all involved parties benefit financially as a result ... and I'm fairly certain that is the main factor in why the enterprise continues.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 02:42:27 PM
*Al Jardine posted on Instagram the other day that Tommy Tedesco played ukulele on "Little Pad".

Seems like maybe the sheets are wrong for some of these sessions? Seems odd that Al and Brian would have such specific memories about this track that are wrong.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 22, 2019, 09:57:53 PM
So did Tommy Tedesco really play the ukulele on "Little Pad"?
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Brian contribute to the writing of \ on: January 21, 2019, 08:35:54 PM
The verse is not that special. Someone copped THE JOKER WENT WILD and fashioned a new song out of it. It's possible Brian wrote the "Good things turn bad but it's over now..." section; it sounds like him and the contour of the melody is related to THE LITTLE GIRL I ONCE KNEW. Or, Bruce could have been inspired to put a Brian sounding melody in that part. Who knows.

WOAH
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BEACH BOYS PRODUCERS SHED LIGHT ON 1968 ARCHIVAL RELEASESzq on: January 09, 2019, 07:31:35 PM
I don't remember what I was referencing regarding Brad Elliot's research, but it suggests that he held the position that BW was in charge of Friends, and he was probably the best source for knowledge at the time (however some may have come to feel about him personally later on).

I'll bet it was Brad's 1968 chronology in Volume 3 of Domenic Priore's Dumb Angel Gazette. He has several session entries that clearly indicate Brian was serving as producer.

Yep that was it! I loved that book ... I think it has the '68 tour book photos w/ Brian and and Dennis playing baseball in that section.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BEACH BOYS PRODUCERS SHED LIGHT ON 1968 ARCHIVAL RELEASESzq on: January 08, 2019, 11:48:47 PM
I've personally always felt Wild Honey and Friends were Brian Wilson-lead records just by listening ... I even wrote this article on my old website back in 1999-2000:

"it is very clear that although the credit lists the Beach Boys as producers, this is in fact a Brian Wilson production (his last entire album until Love You in 1977)."

http://troun.tripod.com/friends.html

I don't remember what I was referencing regarding Brad Elliot's research, but it suggests that he held the position that BW was in charge of Friends, and he was probably the best source for knowledge at the time (however some may have come to feel about him personally later on).

... I don't think the myth was so great beyond basic, surface level articles where the story is easier to tell without nuance (even the "Love and Mercy" movie sort of suggests this). They just skip '67-'68 for convenience really. It's not like he was actually *in his bed* after that, he was just hanging out at home, partying with Nilsson etc. Even Brian himself said he was in his bed for 2-3 years in that '76 interview (in bed ha).

I think there's some truth to the myth too though. Something changed in a big way after Smile. I think Mike Love actually summed it up pretty well in the Endless Harmony doc when he said "Heroes & Villains" was the last of the "super-dynamism" from Brian. That was his last single done in the old ambitious style.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike being comfortable with Bruce appearing on: January 02, 2019, 08:56:50 PM
Alright, Some guy uploaded a ton of short videos of Mike signing massive amounts of albums... Pretty nice of Mike if you ask me. I bet he signed over a hundred. Anyway, some interesting things came up. An album by The Beach Boys and Jan & Dean sparked Mike's interest, on the 73 live album the guy asks if Blondie was on that record to which Mike replies yes, but doesn't say anything else, Celebration comes up... You can watch the videos, some interesting things come up......

But in the final video, something really sparked my attention. The guy talks about Mike making an appearance at an event, to which Mike hesitates and says "well....ummmm...Honestly," and the video cuts off.   (watch the video here if you like ,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_0sxrtEXg)

In my opinion, Mike doesn't sound too thrilled at the idea of Bruce coming along. Is this because it brings the attention off of him? If Bruce came, it would be seen as "The Beach Boys" or "Two of The Beach Boys" instead of "Mike Love". And maybe Mike doesn't like the idea of the spotlight being taken away from him, which we know is certainly plausible. But let's play devil's advocate, and say that Mike's ego isn't the case. Is there any chance that Mike & Bruce offstage and offscreen aren't particularly fond of each other and have a sole business relationship? That seems plausible to me. But maybe I'm just a cynic.

Maybe I'm reading into all of this too much... But if anyone here has any insight, I'd be curious to know what Mike might have said.

No. Mike just doesn't want to entertain/commit to any invitation from these used car dealer hacks.

That's kind of the vibe I was getting ... certainly what I would be thinking in this scene ha.

It's hard to infer anything from that clip. For all we know, he said, "To tell you the truth, I don't even want to go."
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 13, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
A quick perusal of the not-always-100%-reliable setlist.fm shows only a few strange 1968 setlist inclusions, mostly or all presumably from shows from which no recordings exist/survive. Note that several of these selections are not full performances but rather quick riffs/teases/partial versions.

Goober Peas - Memphis 4/24
Papa Oom Mow Mow - Memphis 4/24
Transcendental Meditation - New Rochelle, NY 5/4
409 - San Diego 7/17
Pushin' Too Hard - Fillmore East, 10/11
Vegetables - Fillmore East, 10/11
Heroes and Villains - Fillmore East, 10/11
Graduation Day - Several Shows

The Beach Boys played "Pushin Too Hard"?!?

Sky Saxon was a friend of mine ... we made a recording together once in my little studio, and I had a poster of The Beach Boys (from the '68 tour book actually) on the wall. During this impromptu session, Sky started singing about "Good Vibrations", I always thought that was cool but we never talked about the BB. Cool to see the group liked the Seeds enough to cover them, as I believe there was some mutual admiration there.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 12, 2018, 05:26:20 PM
I trust what I'm hearing first and foremost, as memories are finicky and lore of the era can get into mythological territory. I've owned and actively used tons of old gear, including many of the same type instruments used on these classic sessions. For instance, I'm intimately familiar with the difference in sound between a '65 Fender XII direct into a UA 610 preamp vs. a Scully 280 ... and I did own (and make a record) on the actual Ampex AG300 8-track from Sunset Sound that recorded "San Miguel", "Celebrate the News", etc. ... not to brag but I'm gonna brag because that was like a dream come true. Smiley ... I know you folks on this thread have considerable knowledge and experience in this stuff.

I also think it's fair game to think of Brian Wilson doing weird, unusual things in the studio to get a sound. Though I don't think we should necessarily jump to that, if we're puzzled then it's reasonable to consider those angles. After all, what would we think of the beginning notes on "You Still Believe in Me" if we didn't know what was used to achieve it?

What I'm hearing on the mandolin-sound at the intro on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is one electric 12-string guitar, and one acoustic instrument with octaves. I think the most logical answer for that is that it's a Bellzouki close-miked ... but I'm not married to that theory, just a best guess. I'm also open to the possibility of this being plugged in, but it sounds more acoustic to me.

On this '68 "All I Wanna Do", it sounds distinctly acoustic. I also felt like I was hearing an increase in tape hiss/background noise when the instrument is present ... so I even considered a Chamberlin tape of a sitar for a moment. Yet I don't believe Harry Chamberlin ever recorded or offered a sitar option (I've never heard of one and a quick online research session yielded nothing). Also, the bum note/laugh sort of rules that out. BUT the increase in hiss could actually be some kind of noise gate or manual fader rider ... in either case, this also suggests an acoustic instrument.

I do think the most likely answer is it's a regular sitar (sounds more like a sitar than a tampura to me, though I'm no expert in this area ... but they seem to have quite a drone).
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 12, 2018, 12:01:15 PM
Listened again more closely --

What I heard as some kind of Moog I believe is actually an electric 12 string (it's so reverberated it's hard to tell) -- playing the lead melody/riff, which the "sitar" doubling in spots, and playing by itself in others. The Rocksichord is the instrument in the right channel playing the main rhythm (which does a little frill at the end), followed by the elec 12 playing a single ending note.

The "sitar" instrument sounds distinctly acoustic to me. Not sure if it's a real sitar or what though. It honestly could be plucking harpsichord strings with a bobby pin or something for all we know.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: December 11, 2018, 07:47:34 PM
Not Rocksichord Smiley ... the Rocksichord is actually in there -- you can hear it play a little frill at the very end of the song, followed by what sounds like a note from a Moog?

The sitar sounds like an actual sitar to me ... or some similar sounding acoustic instrument.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension prediction thread on: December 10, 2018, 11:42:49 AM
I think "I'm Confessin'" is "Lonely Days" ?
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Barney Kessel WIBN Mandolin Found AND Sold Nov 10th...But the mystery deepens... on: December 05, 2018, 03:27:41 PM
My opinion:

The instrument is acoustic, not electric/plugged in.

The instrument has some octave sounds.

Possible guess (I know this will be controversial):

Bellzouki unplugged, close miked. This easily could have happened (Barney was practicing, BW liked the unplugged sound and went for that, everyone forgot later and assumed it was the mandolin, etc. …something like that).


I'm told Bellzoukis are relatively easy to play high up the neck, yet Barney struggles and struggles with this instrument...

If he's playing it in the way I imagine, it's pretty high up there, past where the body meets the neck (which would become more difficult on a bolt-on neck).

But this brings up an interesting point: he struggles to play it. I would think this would be relevant regardless of instrument -- he would be familiar with playing his instruments. Any chance it is not Barney after all, or is that not a possibility?

Worth noting is a Bellzouki was designed a sort of 12-string/mandolin hybrid, and was based on a bouzouki, which is similar to a mandolin. In my experience, Danelectro guitars sound pretty "woody" unplugged.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 04, 2018, 05:59:56 PM
Yeh let's not overstate Carl's minor problems during 1977-78. There are plenty of live shows out there from this period in which Carl perfoms well, even if he looked a bit out of it or whatever. Dennis was usually professional as well when present.

But these guys -- even in these states -- had passion and vibe that the others lacked. It was their edge. Really why do we care so much about putting on a professional show night after night etc???

I'm not down on Mike, he doesn't deserve half of the crap flung at him. After all, the man co-wrote most of the Wild Honey album. But let's not take Carl and Dennis down to bring Mike up.

Let's talk about another thing. I've told the story before -- I wrote all of The Beach Boys individual letters when I was 14 (in 1993) basically just telling them how much I loved their music. Carl was the only one to respond -- and he sent an autographed picture. That was not only the "professional" thing to do, but honestly just good hearted. I don't buy any book that trashes Carl, sorry. He is a hero.

I think you are ill advised if you think the book "trashes" Carl. It doesn't. Contempt prior to investigation is your loss. It's a pretty darn good book. BTW, that's a lovely story about Carl. I wish I would have heard it before. That's the exact kind of tale we would have gone out of our way to include.

By the way, I had never heard of the Smile site before I was lucky enough to get involved with this project. I was just a guy that loved the Beach Boys music, no matter where or how it evolved. It is part of my musical DNA. I'm touched by the members of this site, whether I agree or disagree with them.
My over riding response is "youse guys rock, good on ya."
That's sounds a bit sappy, so keep on swinging at me, I can take it.

I "investigated" by watching the train wreck of a thread featuring Rocky unfiltered. And I have no contempt for the man or his book, however I also have no interest in supporting such an endeavor.

Ha I appreciate your hustle, but my opinion is this would have been better presented as a total smear of the band, low brow, crazy Rocky tabloid stuff ... with the original WIPEOUT name -- might have been a best seller!
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Barney Kessel WIBN Mandolin Found AND Sold Nov 10th...But the mystery deepens... on: December 04, 2018, 05:19:53 PM
My opinion:

The instrument is acoustic, not electric/plugged in.

The instrument has some octave sounds.

Possible guess (I know this will be controversial):

Bellzouki unplugged, close miked. This easily could have happened (Barney was practicing, BW liked the unplugged sound and went for that, everyone forgot later and assumed it was the mandolin, etc. …something like that).
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 03, 2018, 09:56:59 PM
Yeh let's not overstate Carl's minor problems during 1977-78. There are plenty of live shows out there from this period in which Carl perfoms well, even if he looked a bit out of it or whatever. Dennis was usually professional as well when present.

But these guys -- even in these states -- had passion and vibe that the others lacked. It was their edge. Really why do we care so much about putting on a professional show night after night etc???

I'm not down on Mike, he doesn't deserve half of the crap flung at him. After all, the man co-wrote most of the Wild Honey album. But let's not take Carl and Dennis down to bring Mike up.

Let's talk about another thing. I've told the story before -- I wrote all of The Beach Boys individual letters when I was 14 (in 1993) basically just telling them how much I loved their music. Carl was the only one to respond -- and he sent an autographed picture. That was not only the "professional" thing to do, but honestly just good hearted. I don't buy any book that trashes Carl, sorry. He is a hero.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alternate Surf's Up LP on: October 26, 2018, 04:05:33 PM
Your sequence is nearly identical to mine. Bravo.  Smiley w00t! Hug

What's your sequence?

I find the early version of Big Sur starts to drag and gets a bit repetitive, so I keep Disney Girls in the sequence. I do like how you end side A with Surf's Up. It works.

Don't Go Near The Water
4th of July
Long Promised Road
Disney Girls
Feel Flows

Lookin' At Tomorrow
A Day in the Life of a Tree
'Til I Die
Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)
Surf's Up


Ah very similar ... though in mine above, "Surf's Up" begins "Side 2".
Donny, your track seems to have been taken down.  Can you at least post your running order?

Good idea --

1 Don't Go Near the Water
2 Fourth of July
3 Long Promised Road
4 Big Sur
5 Feel Flows

6 Surf's Up
7 Lookin At Tomorrow
8 A Day in the Life of a Tree
9 Till I Die
10 Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / Ask The Honored Guests / Re: The Stephen Desper Thread on: October 19, 2018, 08:56:10 AM
Stepehn,

Have you considered publishing the physical books and offering them for sale?

Thanks,

Donny
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Copyright Extension Question on: October 18, 2018, 12:31:48 PM
Copyright law in the US is author's life +70 years, and the copyright is fixed upon creation of the work regardless of publication. The law is a bit different prior to 1978, but it's something similar at this point.

I'm not familiar with the UK law, but this 50 year thing seems to be related to extending the copyright of the *sound recording* (not the underlying musical composition):

"Under the 1988 Act, copyright in a sound recording expires either (a) 50 years after the recording is made, or (b) if the recording is published during that period then 50 years from the publication, or (c) if during the initial 50 years the recording is played in public or communicated to the public then 50 years from that communication or playing to the public, provided the author of the broadcast is an EEA citizen. Otherwise, the duration under the laws of the country of which the author is a national applies, unless such a duration would be longer than offered in UK law, or would be contrary to treaty obligations of the UK in force on 29 October 1994.

As of 1 November 2013, the copyright on sound recordings not yet in the public domain was extended from 50 to 70 years.[23]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

Still seems a bit murky to me ... Capitol seems to be releasing these unsurpassed masters-style recordings as a general precaution.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alternate Surf's Up LP on: October 16, 2018, 09:08:30 AM
Your sequence is nearly identical to mine. Bravo.  Smiley w00t! Hug

What's your sequence?

I find the early version of Big Sur starts to drag and gets a bit repetitive, so I keep Disney Girls in the sequence. I do like how you end side A with Surf's Up. It works.

Don't Go Near The Water
4th of July
Long Promised Road
Disney Girls
Feel Flows

Lookin' At Tomorrow
A Day in the Life of a Tree
'Til I Die
Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)
Surf's Up


Ah very similar ... though in mine above, "Surf's Up" begins "Side 2".
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Easter Seals Show 1979 on: October 15, 2018, 03:42:00 PM
Brian looks super cool.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alternate Surf's Up LP on: October 15, 2018, 02:45:45 PM
Your sequence is nearly identical to mine. Bravo.  Smiley w00t! Hug

What's your sequence?
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