I always counted this as sort-of the first (or one of the first) rap song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nULwgHsVqw

One reason I don't think this cycle is entirely true this time is, I have found A LOT of young people who like the Beatles, BB's, Led Zeppelin and other rock groups from the 60's and 70's. This is 30-50 year-old music! When I was growing up it was practically unheard of for kids my age to listen to, let alone prefer, 30-50 year old music. Sure, we liked the occasional Sinatra tune, but it's not like we went out and bought heaps of Sinatra records and played it at parties. But now, the impression I get from talking to teenagers and 20-somethings is that it is pretty common to like "old" music. The fact this has now become pretty common tells me that current music is lacking in something even teenagers and 20-somethings yearn for, and which they can only find in their parent's music (and by now some of it is even their grandparent's music!).

Also, when I was growing up (mostly in the 70's) my own parents liked a lot of then-current music, even though they were in their 30's and 40's. In fact, a lot of my own musical taste comes from listening to records my parents bought. Is the same thing happening a lot nowadays? Maybe, but I don't think on a large scale.

The argument itself is about 20 years too late. It's like arguing about this new, crazy rock 'n' roll music in 1973. Hip hop has dominated popular music for a couple of decades. It isn't the fringe insurgent, it is long-since established mainstream. Rock is the not-quite-dead dinosaur. And that's going to change, too, because that's the nature of culture.

People form their musical loves as they first think, f***, and drink (or smoke). Then after a decade or so of formation, they stop absorbing new types, instead measuring what they hear against the "good stuff" of their formative years. They might follow those old bands, the new bands that mimic, or just fetishize the details of a handful of albums, but they're basically done. So nothing new can satisfy them ... which is good, because that lets the cycle repeat.

It's a boring argument or complaint. If you hate what is new, it's because you're doing what you're supposed to do. goshdarn kids and their noise...

[A LOT]

1. I could make a good argument that popular music has been going downhill since about 1900. The late Romantic-early Modern period of classical music was the era when music reached the height of its complexity; once jazz came on the scene and replaced classical music as the "popular" music of the day, was when "popular" music started becoming less complex - presuming one is going to define "going downhill" as something that becomes "less complex." (I'm sure there are people who will argue that jazz isn't "less complex" than classical music, but I would say it is).

2. That said, most genres of music seems to go through a series of stages where it starts out simple, gets more complex through time, then at some point it becomes too complex to appeal to the masses; then you get a period where it goes through some sort of retro period (albeit with significant differences from the "early" period) ... then after that it's mostly downhill. Face it: Once a few hundred thousand or so songs or pieces of some genre have been written, there's increasingly less room to find something to write that doesn't sound like something that's already been written.

3. As much as I dislike it, I "understand" why rap/hip-hop became popular - there was pretty much nowhere else to go. Rock music in the 70's had reached, in some bands, levels of complexity previously breached only by some jazz and classical (indeed, many of these pieces were deliberate jazz/classical fusions). At that point it was difficult for music to get still more complex while retaining popular appeal, so the only thing to do was to get *less* complex. 80's techno-rock was a step in that direction. The other way to do that would be to devise a new genre in which melody is eliminated entirely; poetry spoken to a beat (rap). Maybe the next genre to spring up will be pure melodies sung with total disregard to anything resembling a time signature, or something like that (though I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done that).

4. Again, not that I like it, but not long ago I had a discussion on another forum where people were pointing out to me rap/hip-hop songs written to 3/4 and other "different" time signatures, with acoustic guitars and other, non-electric instruments, and all kinds of other things. There *is* some creativity in rap and hip-hop. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be the most popular stuff.

5. Read through comments on youtube of 90's rap songs. You will find A LOT of rap fans who think that was the Golden Age of rap and the stuff nowadays is crap (it all sounds the same to me, though! ). I've read so many comments like that, it makes me think rap is already in its downhill stages, as if 90's rap is akin to mid-60's through mid-70's rock. I suspect in about 20 years it will clearly be a dying genre.

Wow, great stuff! It would be fascinating to hear a more in-depth interview with Brian from that era on his approach to songwriting. But this will do.

Wow, Beach Boy tatoos! Now *that's* dedicated!

I realize it's a common occurrence, but I've always been mystified at why and how so many rock/pop stars do concerts drunk, drugged or otherwise stoned. I mean, it's one thing if you do it in your private life, but at a concert you've got thousands of people paying (usually) good money to see you, why would you want to show up in such horrible shape? It's like you don't give a crap about your own fans - where's the respect?

I guess some people just get so messed up they don't even give a crap.

/rant - sorry off topic

Sounds like a great idea. Maybe throw in scores for Today and Summer Days in the same book and you'd probably have a commercial product salable at your local music store.

Well, at least he apologized and was pretty open about it. Lots of other stars would brush it off, say nothing, or make excuses.

BTW, as a long-time Beatles nut who has recently discovered the BB's (and is now constantly being tempted to think the BB's were the better band, though it's real close), I'm tempted to sign up for that forum and start, well, "preaching."

I mean, for example, Brian wrote and recorded Warmth of the Sun around the same time Paul and John wrote and recorded If I Fell. If I Fell is a great song, and is probably the closest Beatles competitor/analog to Warmth of the Sun, but the latter clearly features much more sophisticated writing and is the better song. And I Love Her also is a close competitor I suppose, but I think WOTS still beats it.

But then, maybe doing that would do little more than stir up more of the (usually pointless) BB's-vs-Beatles arguments, so maybe I should leave well enough alone.

^
I think this thread here comes pretty close to what that guy was talking about:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15096.0.html

Really nerdy stuff!

Here's something interesting - what Beatles fans think of the Beach Boys!
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=8423.0

LOL!!
http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=8423.msg204322#msg204322

Hey maybe we should start a conversation like that somewhere here, just to impress everyone.

And the way the guitar line in this song interacts with the rest of the song has always had me spellbound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihbaHfnDhk

Another borderline Motown song I suppose.

Does this count as Motown? It was actually on Epic Records. Takes about 2 seconds for this song to make me break down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE0pwJ5PMDg

Due to the impossible nature of this question, I am submitting a list in protest.

1. I'm Bugged At My Old Man
2. I'm The Pied Piper
3. Better Get Back in Bed
4. TM Song
5. Johnny Carson

With honorable mention to Airplane, and probably a few others.

Just My Imagination, 1971. Doesn't get any better than this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Z9-QCmZyw

been obsessed with that song lately, that harmony blend...wow

I think those 7 or 8 harp notes near the beginning have to be the most effective 7 or 8 harp notes in the world.

[it does appear to be in there]

^
Really? I never noticed it in that song before.

And now that you mention it, it does appear to be in there, though it's completely buried.

Well then ... maybe I Get Around was the first rock song with a harpichord!

Somebody commenting in that link says this song here from 1963 also features a harpsichord, but if it's there it's very hard to discern, even harder than on I Get Around.

^
halblaineisgood brought up Walking in the Rain on pg. 2, but we weren't sure when it was recorded. Thanks for the info!

But if it was September, WIGU still beats it by a month (not that it means anything more for this discussion).

Just My Imagination, 1971. Doesn't get any better than this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Z9-QCmZyw

Well if there's one thing I can say about this thread, it's that I've heard a lot of songs I never heard before!

That in itself made the question a good one to ask.

I suppose the next question would be, Why did the harpsichord suddenly become a popular instrument in rock/pop bands (aside from the fact it sounds kinda neat  ). Seems ironic that a genre of music which started out as a youthful rebellion against classical, swing and in general the music of the "establishment" ended up using the very same kind of instruments those other genres did!

Maybe the kids grew up and decided the music their parents listened to wasn't so bad after all. 

Thanks! I suppose my original question is answered by now. Hadn't heard that version of Summertime, Summertime before - or if I had I'd never noticed the harpsichord.

Also had never heard that Everly Brothers song before.

I saw an interview with George Martin filmed not that long ago, and he said, to this day, he still didn't know what chord that was.

Well either the "editors" at Wikipedia didn't like what I wrote (or the source), or someone else here changed it, because both of the edits I made last night are gone. *shakes head*

Hadn't heard the Miss Marple theme before, but does music from film scores count? Tough one to call.

[I Get Around]

I edited the Wiki for these 2 songs with my passages below, adding an "Arrangement" section to the Wiki page for each. I used this discussion as a reference (have seen internet forum discussions used as Wiki sources before).

I agree with your approach, guitarfool. However, considering that harpsichord use became fairly common among some rock bands over the subsequent several years, I think it's worth mentioning in the Wiki for those two songs that they were, if not the "first," then "one of the first." Or maybe, "possibly the first."

Here's my first stab at a passage in Wiki for each of the two songs. Y'all let me know what you think.

I Get Around
"I Get Around was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature use of a harpsichord. Although not discernible to the casual listener, the keyboard was played by Brian Wilson on the song as a rhythm instrument. The harpsichord can be more easily heard when listening to the instruments-only track of the song."

When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
"When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) was possibly the first song by a Rock and Roll band to feature a harpsichord as a lead instrument. Although the band had used the instrument several months earlier in I Get Around as a rhythm instrument, When I Grow Up was the band's first song which used a harpsichord as a focal instrument."

Or something like that.

[When I Grow Up To Be a Man]

There are certain musical patterns which often make me cry or tear up. Someday I might figure out exactly what those patterns are, but anyway, the BB's have a significant # of songs which have this effect on me. It can depend on my mood, but off the top of my head, here are some which do this to me at least sometimes. For most of these, it's just certain parts of the song.

When I Grow Up To Be a Man - usually, throughout large chunks of the song when Brian's falsettos and background vocals kick in, and the coda
God Only Knows - this used to do it all the time when Carl sings "God only knows" in the verses, but I think I've listened to it so many times the effect has worn off a good deal
Surf's Up - the coda often, the opening couple lines sometimes
Wouldn't It Be Nice - the bridge, usually
Good Vibrations - the "... I don't know where but she sends me there ..." section, very often
Don't Worry Baby - the refrain, sometimes
Let Him Run Wild - sometimes just the arrangement makes me shed a tear, sort-of a shivers-up-my-spine kind of tear, the whole song is such a great release of energy, almost liberating

There are others that come close (Warmth of the Sun comes to mind). Probably others I'm forgetting offhand.

Got your own?