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680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 07:05:33 AM
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26  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 'CHAOS' The new Manson book on: September 01, 2021, 08:12:21 PM
All these crazy pieces...

Rudy Altobelli- why does he have Bugliosi on speed dial, decades later? Terry calls Rudi, frantic about O'Neill and Rudy calls Vince?

Sharokh Hatami- Reeve Whitson calls him to tell him about the murders hours before the police arrive? Whitson pressures Hatami into giving the crucial testimony that Manson showed up at Cielo?

Charlene Cafritz- was she a girlfriend of Dennis'? Is this verifiable? She ends up financing Charlie with a divorce settlement, Is at Sharon Tate's funeral, OD's...apparently had some Manson home movies?

Mama Cass- Jimmy Webb says Cass told him she was at Cielo the night of the murders?

It is endless, the twists and turns. I was reading where Sebrings friend, Paul Greenwald had installed state of the art electronics at Jays house - cable tv and electronics so he could control drapes, lighting etc from his bed. The night before the murders, all of the victims are at Jay's house. Jay calls Greenwald as he is having issues with the TV. Greenwald can't come over to fix. Days later he is there fetching a suit for Jay's funeral and remembers about the issue. He goes outside and sees the cables are cleanly cut. He mentions that the way they were configured would mean that when power was disrupted it would have some sort of reverse effect and turn all the floodlights on outside, which could have scared away any would be intruders. It's just a story that makes you think, as the first move by Tex at Cielo was cutting the lines.
27  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New book: Hollywood Eden on: August 30, 2021, 08:09:43 AM
I finally got around to reading this, and I was quite entertained.

Of course, it covers ground that has been scoured over for years, and some people have noted here that Slevin includes some glaring errors in fact here.

That said, you can always learn something, and I found it was a unique take, as it covers a certain time frame, and really uses Uni High as the ground zero for this emergence of the California Sound. It sure sounded like an idyllic time and place.

Bruce has said many times, re: the early days, 'We just wanted to sound like the Radio' and you can understand that quote a bit more, after reading this. I always was interested in learning more info from the Bruce and Terry era, and we get a little glimpse of it here.

The main takeaway for me, I guess, is the books ends as the curtain comes down on, say, the 'first wave'. Jan's accident means he is out of the game. Spector feels River Deep-Mountain High is his absolute peak and sees nowhere to go, and slides deeper into his idiosyncratic world. And Brian, with Good Vibrations such a grand achievement, well we know what happens next. The creative forces all almost simultaneously have major set backs. Meanwhile the hustlers in this story; The Adlers and Fowleys etc keep moving right along.

And that Brian quote to Marilyn as he lands back in LA after flying off to teach the guys how to handle Good Vibrations live, and has requested all his friends come out to the airport...'I don't know whether to say Hello, or say Goodbye...' That is really stuck in my head currently.

28  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 'CHAOS' The new Manson book on: August 28, 2021, 07:05:07 AM
For those interested in digging deeper, with more facts akin to those O'Neill uncovered in his book, these two pieces of evidence helped change my views on the whole Manson saga and "Helter Skelter" well before this book we're discussing was released.

The Manson letter I referenced in my previous post, transcribed here:

https://crystalsphere1.blogspot.com/2010/05/charles-manson-letter-to-william-dakota.html

An interview with Bobby Beausoleil from 1981, where he describes the Hinman crime as it actually happened and his time spent with Manson:

https://www.bardachreports.com/death-trips-new-yorks-unwanted-dead-1?rq=bobby

Those are just there for the consideration of anyone interested in more facts behind the Manson case. And part of the Manson letter does tie in with what O'Neill said Bugliosi told him about what the police found at Polanski's house, which wasn't made public.



So Guitarfool, have you been able to ascertain the most likely motive for the killings?

Al these shards, sometime you think there is a straight line but then you find a piece that doesn't add up.

Bugliosi didn't pull Helter Skelter out of thin air. I'm sure the girls were filling in this theory, and the girls outnumbered the guys in terms of arrests. So he is hearing this from the girls as the motive. But along the way investigations probably show this doesn't make sense.  But the evidence to nail Charlie himself is weak. And the cross connections of the Hollywood Elite are discovered, and that becomes a problem in circles of power and influence. And so Bugliosi takes it and runs with it, jamming square pegs into round holes along the way.

Meanwhile the Drug business has its usual challenges and Charlie finds himself shooting Crowe. Then he enlists the bikers for protection, which leads to another bad drug transaction, which leads to the Hinman murder. Then the copycat murders happen to try and free Beausoleil, the houses are picked because Charlie and Tex know Cielo and Charlie's knows the neighbourhood where the LaBianca's live...simple as that? The Hinman murder is in a different police jurisdiction so the other killings do not have the desired effect of freeing Bobby. Then loose lips and sloppy cover ups sink everyone.

Great except for a million little things. Are Sebring and Frykowski involved in some drug dealings with The Family? Are the LaBiancas? What about Charlie's trip to Esalen, the day before the Tate killings, why is he there, and why is he so pissed by accounts, afterwards? Esalen is connected to Big Sur Festival. Has Terry, or someone else in the industry sent Charlie up there as a way to keep him happy (and try and pass the buck on his musical support) to audition, and he is rejected, which fuels the murders at Cielo. And then all the Govt conspiracy stuff...it gets super weird!
29  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 'CHAOS' The new Manson book on: August 25, 2021, 01:06:39 PM
Well…of course if you are interested in total historical accuracy they are a waste of time…..I mean if someone ask me what I did THIS PAST JUNE I really have to think about it but we expect someone like Mike Love to accurately recall what happened at a recording session on February 10 1967 …etc.  But that doesn’t mean that you cannot learn a lot about a person that interests you by reading an autobiography and if the person is a great raconteur who can tell a good story than great! Notable autobiography’s that I really enjoyed include Keith Richard’s Life, David Niven’s The Moon’s a Balloon and Bring on the Empty Horses and Bob Dylan’s Chronicles.  That doesn’t mean that I think every word is true-many stories in all three books have inaccuracies but as long as you accept that you’ll have a good read.

This is true!

I think, however you owe it to the reader as an autobiographical author, not to make things up.

This little story about showering with Squeaky, I'm sure Mike didn't think this through enough to meet basic journalistic standards. Yes, of course you want to include a chapter about Manson..that stuff sells! But if your going to get into specifics that are, very, very suspect then you should be called out on it. The whole shower story stinks!! LOL. Even just on Mikes premise here it falls apart. He is saying Manson is a control freak that choreographs everyone's movements, but Squeaky, maybe his most loyal follower is running off to find Mike, who has decided to take a shower in the middle of a party at somebody else's home?

It's just a little blurb in the book. But if it is deliberately false, than what else is false? Did Dennis tell Mike he saw Manson kill a guy and throw him down a well? That's incredible. did Dennis tell anyone else, or did he feel that Mike was his closest confidant, and only divulged this viewing of a crime to Mike. Is that story false? Then what? Are the C50 explanations from Mike suspect? Is everything?

And for some authors, it probably matters less, this blurring of fact and fiction. But for a guy like Mike with so many haters, and also on a constant mission to try and set his side of the record straight, Facts should matter.
30  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 'CHAOS' The new Manson book on: August 24, 2021, 09:10:09 PM
My focus in reading was really on Terry, and it helped me to understand where he stood in all this. And there still is lots of confusion, and I suppose Terry took the real story to his grave.  Overall though I think Terry was really infatuated with the idea of free access to the girls. The few times Terry spoke of the Family, he went out of his way to say how the girls were beneath his standards, he only dated models etc. Outright deflecting, IMO. These girls, on Charlie's command were up for all sorts of 'activities', that I'm sure Terry wasn't getting from Candace Bergen or whomever. Ruth Ann Moorehouse was young, and attractive, and Terry tried to convince Bergen that they should hire her as a maid at Cielo. Terry was lending Dean Moorehouse his car and credit card, allegedly.  He was just way more involved than he let on.
revolving around Terry.

Yeah, that bit in the book wherein Terry brags about having brought later-gf Michelle Phillips to the DA's office with him and telling them, "This is my girlfriend, do you think I’d want to be with any of these…?"  Terry seems to have considered this argument the ultimate checkmate, but it's pretty lame, IMO.  Denny was certainly a much bigger celebrity than Terry, and *he* clearly didn't think he was too good for those girls.  And, besides, there's no accounting for taste.  I mean, look at Arnold Schwarzenegger.  He was a huge international star and a married man with 4 kids, and he was having sex with his not particularly attractive cleaning lady.  Thus, the "these women are beneath my standards" argument is pretty weak.

You know, in another recent thread about LSD, we had some discussion about how odd it was for someone as seemingly straitlaced as Bruce to have been at what Mike Love described as an acid-soaked orgy at Dennis's house.  Now, AFAIK, there's no particular evidence that Terry was at that party too.  But would it have been so odd if he were?  After all, Bruce and Terry were BFFs.

BTW, here's Mike's description of the party as reported by People magazine:

Love himself met the aspiring rock star Manson – who, along with his “girls,” had moved into Dennis Wilson’s home, where they spent Dennis’ money, took his clothes and ate his food – over dinner at the house with fellow performer Bruce Johnston. After the meal, Manson summoned the men to the den, “where he turned on a strobe light and revealed all of his girls lying there, naked,” Love writes.

“He started passing out LSD tabs and was orchestrating sex partners,” Love writes. “I love the female form, but this was too much.”

Love bowed out to take a shower but found himself suddenly joined by Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, who years later tried to assassinate President Gerald Ford. “Before I could tell her to get lost,” Love writes, “Manson himself arrived.”

“He looked up at me with those dark, beady eyes and said, ‘You can’t do that.’ ”

“Excuse me?” Love replied.

“You can’t leave the group.”

Love made an excuse that he and Johnston needed to return to the studio. “We got the hell out of there,” he writes, “and as we pulled out of the driveway, I thought, Denny, you’ve got a real nut case for a roommate now.”

https://people.com/crime/beach-boys-mike-love-remembers-confrontation-with-charles-manson/


Just as a footnote to this: Squeaky Fromme herself refuted Mike's claims above with a letter to the editor published in Vanity Fair, which had published excerpts of Mike's book. From the original post made here by RJM:



Letter to the Editor in the December 2016 issue of Vanity Fair:

In your review of Beach Boys biographies, I was surprised to learn of my attempt to shower with Mike Love. Ironically, he's the second writer in as many months to allege a soap-and-water sexual advance by one of the "dirty Manson girls." Mike Love's memoir may be, as you say, a better read than Brian's but I couldn't believe anything he says. I've never been within 10 feet of Mike Love.

LYNETTE FROMME
Central New York State

EDITOR'S NOTE: Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme was a member of Charles Manson's "family." In 1975, she tried to assassinate President Gerald Ford. Fromme was released from prison in 2009.


At the time I said it was pretty bad that Mike and his book got fact-checked by Squeaky Fromme herself.  Grin

And I believe Squeaky!

The shower incident undoubtedly happened, but Mike has decided to rewrite history here.

Man, like, 40 years ago I remember leafing through this somewhat trashy book in the local bookstore.  It 's subject matter was loosely, Rock Stars and true crime type stories.  I was (and am) a big Neil Young fan and there was a chapter devoted to the time around Tonights The Night and the drug deaths of Danny Whitten and Bruce Berry. Some stuff about Nash's girlfriend being murdered by her brother....

And there was chapter on Manson and the Beach Boys.  Now in this version, Mike tells a story of 'getting it on with a 'Chiquita' in the shower', when Manson pops in. Chiquita is not a word anyone would use to describe Lynette!  I have no idea what the books title or author was. But I always remembered that story. I guess Mike figured Sqeaky was more of a household name than say a Catherine Share, or whoever it actually was.
31  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 'CHAOS' The new Manson book on: August 24, 2021, 09:25:40 AM
It's been a couple of years since I read the book, but every August I tend to go down the Manson rabbit hole for a bit...

Great book, and I agree, the author really sacrificed a lot in his 20 year pursuit of the story.

What makes the whole Manson story fascinating, to me at least, is that we absolutely know who committed the murders. But the reason why, as portrayed by Bugliosi is flawed, if not outright crap. So it's that age old question, do the ends justify the means in the Halls of Justice?

Your head can blow lean off when you try to connect all the dots in Chaos. I'm surprised O'Neill didn't go insane, writing this.

My focus in reading was really on Terry, and it helped me to understand where he stood in all this. And there still is lots of confusion, and I suppose Terry took the real story to his grave.  Overall though I think Terry was really infatuated with the idea of free access to the girls. The few times Terry spoke of the Family, he went out of his way to say how the girls were beneath his standards, he only dated models etc. Outright deflecting, IMO. These girls, on Charlie's command were up for all sorts of 'activities', that I'm sure Terry wasn't getting from Candace Bergen or whomever. Ruth Ann Moorehouse was young, and attractive, and Terry tried to convince Bergen that they should hire her as a maid at Cielo. Terry was lending Dean Moorehouse his car and credit card, allegedly.  He was just way more involved than he let on. It doesn't make him responsible, but it's certainly questionable behaviour. O'Neill says Terry was meeting with Manson, post murders. And another thing I found odd was that Actress Olivia Hussey, who moved into Cielo after the murders, said Terry was back living there.  Just a lot of weird stuff
revolving around Terry.

O'Neill discovers that Tex's lawyer has 20 hours of tape , which is the first recorded discussions of the Murders, supposedly.  And I think around 2013 , he was trying to get access to them. LAPD got their hands on them and never released the contents....why after 50 years?? Makes you wonder.
32  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2021 Feel Flows World Tour Thread on: August 10, 2021, 05:08:51 PM

Looks like a cool new Venue

https://wjon.com/beach-boys-at-the-ledge-in-waite-park-wednesday-six-things-to-know/
33  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys (Mike/Bruce) appearing on CNN 4th of July special on: July 08, 2021, 08:55:17 AM
I guess at the end of the day, mixes and audio enhancements etc aside, the human ear decides what sounds good. They didn't sound good on the 4th as I watched it on CNN.

Sort of an aside, the Beach Boys ( and I definitely include Brian in this category) are the only of my favourite bands, that I always anticipate with some trepidation when I tune into see them on these types of shows. And I mean going back a ways, like Today show appearances of over a decade ago, etc. There are exceptions. That Reagan show pre reunion sounded pretty good - Al probably the key there. The 2012 Fallon appearance comes to mind. But I think these are not the norm. They should be.
34  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys (Mike/Bruce) appearing on CNN 4th of July special on: July 04, 2021, 05:30:02 PM
Unfortunately, they aren't sounding great. Mix seems off. Mike and Bruce do not seem in good form...
35  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys (Mike/Bruce) appearing on CNN 4th of July special on: July 03, 2021, 10:37:34 AM
Chicago on the same bill...does this qualify as Beachago?
36  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Happy Birthday Bruce! on: June 27, 2021, 07:17:34 AM
Clappy Birthday to Bruce!
37  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce: A Constant Thread through the California Myth on: May 26, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Bruce is much more interesting than his latter day stage persona, his solo records, or his loyalty to Mike would suggest. I'd love to read his autobiography but he's said several times over the years that he's not going to write one.

He's only famous for being in the band.


Obviously being a Beach Boy is not a bad thing in my eyes. But you'd be surprised how many times Bruce's name comes up in (californian) music history.

Exactly! I remember reading a book called 'Waiting For The Sun' ? Many years ago, and it was the same deal.... Bruce is all over that book.
38  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / New book: Hollywood Eden on: April 14, 2021, 03:12:29 PM
Looks like a good read


https://www.pollstar.com/article/joel-selvins-hollywood-eden-mines-the-highs-and-lows-of-socals-early-music-scene-147802
39  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston on virus quarantine, 60th Anniversary rumors and lots more on: June 20, 2020, 09:27:20 AM
I guess it's not surprising, *of course* Bruce during times like this would be of the mind of "I just shut the TV off" to avoid everything. Of course Bruce Johnston would pick a moment like this to not stand up for anything.

Actually he stood up for the Surfrider Foundation which has been sharing and writing about their push for racial equality at the beaches (and racial equality in general).



Sorry,  Bruce's politics are well known and he's pretty open about it.   I'm not saying he's never stood for or supported any good cause. I just found it unfortunate but not surprising that in the current climate his go to answer is to avoid looking at the news presumably to avoid having the feel bad about it.

News it literally sensationalist theater, I don't care if you're a republican, democrat, libertarian, or Green Party...it's meant to cause anxiety to boost ratings for whatever station is running - be it CNN or Fox News. As someone who strongly believes in racial equality for all I don't feel wary of stating my true beliefs about mainstream news media, especially in the current climate...it is theater, plain and simple. So if Bruce wants to turn his TV off, I say GO BRUCE!

Bruce shouted out his Surfrider Foundation that is clearly supporting the current push for racial equality, so I honestly don't get what you're on about. Funny thing is, to my best belief Brian Wilson hasn't posted anything about the current issues on any of his social media platforms, but no one is calling him out on it. If Brian turned off the news would anyone blame him? No, because the news would probably drive him crazy. Why should it be any less believable that the news has the potential to drive Bruce crazy?

@Mtaber - Exactly! The news has done nothing but cause divisiveness and anxiety. Be proactive in trying to bring people together, be aware of current events. Bruce has done plenty to bring people together with his music....maybe if he changed his Facebook profile pic to a black box people would really see that he is doing everything he can to help fight racial injustice! /s


Good Post. I certainly didn't get the impression Bruce was turning off the news, so as to not take a stand on anything, but rather to emphasize that we all need a break from it occasionally.

It's an interview about the roots of surf music..everything doesn't have to be a political platform
40  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Unleash The Love - Liner Notes - Jeff Franklin- Kinda Odd on: January 12, 2020, 10:33:56 AM
I was reading the liner notes of Mike's album and he thanks Jeff Franklin for use of Jeff's property for shooting the album cover.

Now, I may be mistaken but is that not the same property where the Manson murders took place?

If, so it just strikes me as an odd choice. Yes, I realize that Jeff and Mike are friends, but seeing as there really is a direct link between the murders, and Michael's friend Terry, and Michael's cousin, Dennis, wouldn't one give pause to shooting there? Especially given the album is supposed to be thematic of more love in the world.

Again, just struck me as odd. I know a lot of people like to criticize Mike for every little thing, I just find it weird if indeed it's the same spot. The house is different, the address is different...but still.
41  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Any footage/pics of Brian on Drums? on: November 05, 2019, 11:28:02 AM
Awesome
42  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Any footage/pics of Brian on Drums? on: November 05, 2019, 07:13:03 AM
Seems like a bit of a rookie question, but is their any video of Brian drumming on The Wanderer, or a pic of him on drums from say, Love You sessions?
  Drumroll
43  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys-related license plates on: October 04, 2019, 10:29:44 AM
44  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys-related license plates on: October 04, 2019, 10:27:47 AM
][URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pm0bpTeUj][/url]
45  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Terry Melcher on: September 09, 2019, 11:10:57 AM
Reading Tom O'Neil's book Chaos, on Manson. Terry is certainly a key figure in the book.

O'Neil spent 20 years on this thing, and he is all over the map, connecting many dots, but not coming to any solid conclusions, other than the Bugliosi story doesn't add up.

It certainly does raise a lot of questions about Terry's involvement with Manson. O'Neil contends that Terry was still in contact with Charlie after the murders. That Terry was back living in the house on Cielo after the murders. There is a whole Bugiosi/Altobelli/Melcher triangle that was established to push the Helter Skelter angle.

One personal red flag for me, is that in his interview with O'Neil, and in a Rolling Stone article from the mid 70's Terry claims that he wouldn't be involved with the Manson girls because they were too ugly. He makes the point in both instances that he was with women like Candice Bergen and Michelle Phillips, so why would he need to be with Charlie's girls. That seems like a load of crap to me.

Terry was pretty insistent he hardly knew Manson, and had met him a couple of times. Altobelli claims Terry couldn't stop talking about Manson. Terry did give Dean Moorehouse (and Tex Watson) his Jag and credit card to use for a couple of weeks so Moorehouse could travel for a court date....that seems odd to me as well.

Anyhow, all pretty interesting stuff.
46  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2019 Tour Thread on: September 08, 2019, 10:58:03 AM
It's interesting to watch Mike's band balloon in size considering his stated aversion to a larger band during C50. He noted there were too many members on stage competing for parts. This from the guy who now has three keyboardists on stage (and/or three guitarists) in addition to a non-vocalist bassist and a sax player. Plus Stamos when he shows up.

Well, to be fair, Mike's band has only grown from 7 (including 2 principals) to 9. The C50 tour started with 15 guys (down to 14 when Nicky had to drop out), including 5 principals. Plus, I'm sure Mike's backline crew is still smaller than Brian's. And, as stated, Mike's band usually plays with rented gear, so right there you save a ton on transportation costs. All said, I doubt Mike's touring expenses come anywhere near Brian's, even now with the addition of two more band members.


Excellent point
47  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weirdest Summer in Paradise bar of soap / coupon tie-in ever (from 1993) on: September 07, 2019, 07:39:45 PM
Maybe they knew you would need a shower after listening!!!

I kid! I like SIP
48  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: August 16, 2019, 06:28:52 AM
I think things are best the way they are now. The Beach Boys of history will always be Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl and Al; and to varying degrees, David, Bruce, Blondie, Ricky..did I leave anyone out? Glen Campbell? Daryl Dragon? Billy Hinsche? The Beach Boys today are Mike's band. I will go see them next month and i'm sure i'll have a great time, but it can't compare to seeing some variation of the classic lineup in (or near) their prime.
Over the years, I've seen a lot of complaining about the shows the group did in the 80s and 90s with all the surfing and car songs, the cheerleaders, etc; but I am thankful I got to see the group a couple times when Dennis was alive; and many, many times with Carl singing and playing.
The only thing that could make a 2019 show by either Mike's BB's or Brian and Al's group as magical as those shows I saw 30 years ago is if Carl and Dennis could be brought back from the dead.

Nice post. Sounds like you are a real fan.
49  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Three new albums in as many years - more reissues to follow? on: August 13, 2019, 10:59:42 AM
Mike was on ABC's In Concert (which started off as a promising hour long concert show airing around midnight Fridays, circa 1990
[/quote]


Is there footage of this show somewhere ?
50  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: August 09, 2019, 09:04:20 AM
I completely agree with the idea that as long as people pay to see Brian perform, then ultimately that is the marker.


Personally speaking, I disagree and I think most people would disagree with that as a principle. For example, if I produced heroin, there would probably be a huge and endless market for it. That being said, I wouldn't personally feel good about continuing to supply people with heroin, even if they wanted it and kept coming back for it.

Now, surely, someone will miss my point here and interpret this as me comparing going to a Brian Wilson concert to taking heroin, which I'm not doing. What I am doing is saying that we don't really accept as a principle that we should keep supplying a product as long as there is a market for it.

Sure, and I get what you are saying...and let's face it we encounter inferior goods and services pretty much every day of our lives, and some we continue to consume, and some we decide that no, there isn't any value for us in purchasing. And some still, are removed from the marketplace for legal, ethical and safety reasons. Some continue to exist in 'black' markets, obviously based on demand.

I guess my point is that since everything is subjective, there may be a lot of people who want to buy tickets to see Brian perform, regardless of the quality of 'his' performance: vocally or otherwise. A hardcore Brianista might be happy to shell out big bucks just to be in the same venue as Brian...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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