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641259 Posts in 25604 Topics by 3642 Members - Latest Member: BigSur91 December 16, 2018, 10:15:13 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 13, 2018, 02:29:32 PM
"And we come full circle returning to what was said a few pages ago: If Rocky and/or Stephen Love had the facts and the truth on their side when they were sharing details of various issues and lawsuits and whatnot involving Mike, there would be *no grounds to sue*. That's as simple as it can get. Or even more simply, the burden of proof for someone suing for libel or slander depends entirely on first proving that lies and falsehoods were told about that person or persons enough to damage them personally or in a business sense."

It's never as simple as that.  Even if the truth is on your side, the cost of defending yourself from a lawsuit is enormous.  Most people will give it up rather than face the time and costs of attorneys' fees in defending themselves from a lawsuit.  If you are sued and you win, you don't get your attorneys' fees back, they are down the drain.  And if a judge makes a decision that turns a case upside down, even if that decision is wrong, that is one of the risks of a lawsuit.  The road to good intentions is paved with all kinds of bad and incorrect outcomes in lawsuits, especially in sunny California.


Side note: this is also probably why the brand licensing issue will never be touched with a ten foot pole.

Also - I'm sure I've seen dozens tv shows/movies of people getting paid off and contracts drawn up in exchange for silence and photos/video to simply vanish, etc. Feels like we're in a Dallas or Columbo episode or something. We'll certainly never know the real story here, but it would seem that an about face and change of tone doesn't just happen out of the blue for no reason. I'll just have to assume the tape (and Rocky's original intentions/tone as stated in his messages on this board) went into the void of the "lost chapter" in Mike's bio where Mike -with great sincerity and conviction - talked about regretting filing the failed 2005 lawsuit against Brian and all the embarrassing details of that.



So the suggestion is, and it's no surprise for those who have followed this band's history, that anyone who might have something to share or publish or write in general has to walk on eggshells out of fear that Mike Love and his lawyers will start throwing lawsuits and c&d orders at them to try to stifle anything he doesnt want to have made public.

That's nice, isn't it? Avoid things by having an atmosphere of fear and discourage people from talking by threatening them through the legal system instead of dealing with the issues like a man.

Real class, there. Positivity personified.

I am interested in whether it's
Threat of Litigation
Or
Reconciliation

If Stephen was reconciled with Stan and Mike, he would certainly have enough influence to 'flip' Rocky.
A pro Mike book could be an Olive branch to Mike from Steve.



2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 11, 2018, 11:45:00 AM
I've asked Ron the same thing about the 180 degree flip multiple times - Maybe there is no "reasonable" answer or maybe it's something that got designated not fit for public consumption.

To be honest, Ron seems to be ignoring the questions about that specific topic, which for some of us is the most baffling and most obvious point of the whole saga. And it goes against everything Rocky wrote and said when he was posting here at the end of 2015 into 2016. We see a total, complete, 180 degree, Jekyll and Hyde style flip in roughly two years. No idea why these questions are being ignored, especially when they're asked respectfully and without name-calling and the like.

Ron? What gives?
He's answered it a few times. The publisher didn't want to go that route.

But does that really make sense, in terms of completely changing the take on two of the major characters? I can see, perhaps, a publisher wanting to tone down the characterization of Mike and Stan. But to completely change it? It opens the author up to a huge credibility problem, can't see how that's of benefit to either author or publisher.

It just seems to me, like there is more to this than 'the publisher wanted to go another route.'
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 11, 2018, 11:15:24 AM
I've asked Ron the same thing about the 180 degree flip multiple times - Maybe there is no "reasonable" answer or maybe it's something that got designated not fit for public consumption.

To be honest, Ron seems to be ignoring the questions about that specific topic, which for some of us is the most baffling and most obvious point of the whole saga. And it goes against everything Rocky wrote and said when he was posting here at the end of 2015 into 2016. We see a total, complete, 180 degree, Jekyll and Hyde style flip in roughly two years. No idea why these questions are being ignored, especially when they're asked respectfully and without name-calling and the like.

Ron? What gives?

It really is the most interesting angle to this story.
We know 100% that Steve and Rock were close, in around the 2016 postings, and I assume still are.
There was some speculation of a possible reunion between Steve and his brothers when Milton passed away?
Steve's criticism of Mike on 'Man vs Clown' seemed to have let up around the time Rocky was banned here.
So if the tension thawed between Steve, Mike and Stan, would Steve, have then influenced Rocky to completely flip the narrative that was on display here, which was more, or less;
Stan=traitor
Mike=Evil
While keeping the theme of
Steve=Great, betrayed by the band
Rocky=purveyor of tough love needed to save Brian

Just curious GF if there was something specific that got Rocky banned, or was it just a general sense that he was getting out of hand?
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 11, 2018, 10:21:46 AM
Wow the craziest thing is reading this posted chapter, and then going back to the Rocky thread of 2016, especially near the end where it becomes so nonsensical. Rock is just spewing out hatred towards Mike and Stan.

It would be really interesting to know what changed. Was there a reconciliation between Stephen, and Stan and Mike? This would have changed the tone 180 degrees?

When you read Rocky's posts, there is just no reasonable answer as to why he would be writing a book that cast Mike and Stan in a positive light. So what transpired??
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 10, 2018, 11:04:08 AM
I haven't read the book. I read the chapter posted here.

There were no doubt, neccesary, logical and perhaps even ethical and legal reasons for tidying up Rocky's narrative as was on display here back in the day.

But when the book starts coming at the story from a historical perspective, and the facts are at worst incorrect, and at best biased, then the book will have a hard time standing up, especially in places like this where a lot of people can be described as experts on the band.

I think the sweet spot for a book from Rocky, would have been in those intimate moments where he was travelling with Brian, or that story when they went to a bar (and I think Dylan was there??) These stories, or stories of clowns being beaten, could be entertaining, and could be taken with a grain of salt for Rocky's creative license. Any attempt to try and manipulate facts about the general history of the band is a losing proposition.

One thing, I do want to say, even though It's unlikely I'll purchase the book. Rocky said he was going to write a book, and he did. I can imagine it's a challenging task, so good for him for getting it done.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfin' Safari Cover (if shot today) on: December 06, 2018, 11:00:14 AM
Very cool. Nice to know it's there!
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Surfin' Safari Cover (if shot today) on: December 06, 2018, 08:11:13 AM
Meaningless post, really. I was looking at some Google Earth images of Paradise Cove, where the cover to SS (and Surfer Girl) were shot. Based on the rather high bluffs along the beach there, is it possible that if the Surfin' Safari cover was taken today, it would be nearly identical, in terms of background?  Anyone familiar with the area?

Interesting, if indeed the case, given the massive development of SOCAL in the last 50 plus years.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: December 05, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Is the clown beating covered in the book?
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: A Very Beach Boys Christmas: Rob Sheffield talks Bri and Mike tours on: November 29, 2018, 10:59:49 AM

Interesting take on the article. I see major anti-Mike bias, for no good reason in this instance.
Pretty irresponsible journalism, really.
If he wants to make a point that it's either odd, or disappointing that Mike and Brian are doing seperate tours, that's fine. But this article shapes a narrative that Mike is touring in 'response' to Brian.  And he pushes the agenda of bad blood between cousins, while failing to, say, mention that as recently as this summer,  the band presented a unified front during the Sirius Q&A

There is certainly major anti-Mike bias, but much of it is not unwarranted IMHO. Very opinionated piece, no doubt. I would certainly say it is not out of line to point out the hypocrisy in Mike going on and on about family unity, etc with regards to this Christmas album of his, all the while essentially also quietly saying "pay no attention to the fact that I won't play onstage with or record music with my own cousin - who's family too - and who is a person wants/wanted to do both of those things with me".

That's an inconvenient truth, and I don't see how Mike doesn't realize the irony of the fractured cousin relationship due to his own refusal to play live with/record with Brian, despite promoting some "family unity" image. Can't have it both ways, and the writer of the piece would be biased in a different direction to be aware of this situation and *not* point it out.

Well we can agree that he is heavily biased against Mike.
Mike's immediate family is all over Reason For The Season, so I don't think it is in anyway inappropriate to be mentioning family and Christmas in the same breath.

You won't admit to just a smidge of hypocrisy there with Mike? Brian is not only his family, but by far his most famous and famously-related family member.
I just don't get the point here I suppose. It's not hypocritical of Mike to link Christmas and family, even if he has a strained relationship with a brother or a cousin. Hell, half the country would have to attach a caveat to their Christmas proclamations!!

Really, to me, the article reads as though Mike is a bad guy, and he's doing a Christmas tour to compete with Brian. If the author wants to paint Mike as a bad guy fine, but he is trying to manipulate reality here.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: A Very Beach Boys Christmas: Rob Sheffield talks Bri and Mike tours on: November 28, 2018, 02:38:35 PM

Interesting take on the article. I see major anti-Mike bias, for no good reason in this instance.
Pretty irresponsible journalism, really.
If he wants to make a point that it's either odd, or disappointing that Mike and Brian are doing seperate tours, that's fine. But this article shapes a narrative that Mike is touring in 'response' to Brian.  And he pushes the agenda of bad blood between cousins, while failing to, say, mention that as recently as this summer,  the band presented a unified front during the Sirius Q&A

There is certainly major anti-Mike bias, but much of it is not unwarranted IMHO. Very opinionated piece, no doubt. I would certainly say it is not out of line to point out the hypocrisy in Mike going on and on about family unity, etc with regards to this Christmas album of his, all the while essentially also quietly saying "pay no attention to the fact that I won't play onstage with or record music with my own cousin - who's family too - and who is a person wants/wanted to do both of those things with me".

That's an inconvenient truth, and I don't see how Mike doesn't realize the irony of the fractured cousin relationship due to his own refusal to play live with/record with Brian, despite promoting some "family unity" image. Can't have it both ways, and the writer of the piece would be biased in a different direction to be aware of this situation and *not* point it out.

Well we can agree that he is heavily biased against Mike.
Mike's immediate family is all over Reason For The Season, so I don't think it is in anyway inappropriate to be mentioning family and Christmas in the same breath.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: A Very Beach Boys Christmas: Rob Sheffield talks Bri and Mike tours on: November 28, 2018, 07:43:21 AM
I don't think it's out of line to point out some of the seemingly asinine aspects of the BB world, specifically that they remain splintered rather than being able to hold the whole group together.

I also don't mind a compare/contrast between the two tours.

But it's not like Mike Love only booked Christmas-themed dates because Brian's doing a Christmas tour. Mike's band, whether you love them or loathe them or anything in between, have usually done dates in December, and have often if not usually done mini-sets of Christmas songs (usually culled from the '64 album; the difference this year is that he's plugging his own new XMas album).

I sense Mike cranked an Xmas album out quickly because, while neither "Unleash" nor this new album are burning up the sales charts, they are likely cheaply produced and sell well enough to continue stamping them out. Indeed, it appears possible if not likely his Xmas album this year is outselling last year's "Unleash."

It's actually Brian who is newer to doing a large quantity of BB XMas music. And he and his band should be commended for one-upping any previous attempts by touring groups by doing the ENTIRE Christmas album.

But again, I don't mind an article pointing out the arguably slight continued absurdity of seemingly "competing" shows being out there doing now similarly-themed shows. But I don't think either was done in reaction to the other. Brian was rumored to be looking into booking Nov/Dec 2018 Xmas shows back in late 2017, and as already mentioned, Mike usually does Xmas shows when he's touring in December.

Interesting take on the article. I see major anti-Mike bias, for no good reason in this instance.
Pretty irresponsible journalism, really.
If he wants to make a point that it's either odd, or disappointing that Mike and Brian are doing seperate tours, that's fine. But this article shapes a narrative that Mike is touring in 'response' to Brian.  And he pushes the agenda of bad blood between cousins, while failing to, say, mention that as recently as this summer,  the band presented a unified front during the Sirius Q&A
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: November 20, 2018, 09:15:30 AM
Let's get Rocky back on the board to answer all these, and other pressing questions!!
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love & Stamos on Jimmy Kimmel 10/31 on: November 01, 2018, 08:47:43 AM
Mike seemed pretty cool and relaxed sitting in. My late night show watching days are long gone, but I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that in the 30 mins I watched, there was about a 5 min segment with Stamos, and then about a 2-3 min segment. That left about 22 mins of commercials...ridiculous.
14  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: New Politics Thread 2018 on: October 31, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
So what's going to happen with the Mid Terms? I'm Canadian, but get a large daily dose of US politics, and I really can't figure out where this is heading.

And I suppose the other question is 'does it matter'? It seems so divided that at one point, will it even make a difference who's wrestled control from whom??
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs Inspired by The Beach Boys on: September 24, 2018, 10:26:49 AM
Hung Up and Overdue on Petty's 'She's The One' Soundtrack. And Carl's on background vocals.  Actually that whole album seems to contain many homages to artists like The Byrds, Dylan, BB's etc. Always felt that it was underrated.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs Inspired by The Beach Boys on: September 24, 2018, 10:24:19 AM
There weren't any readily available online so I scanned a few of those BW, PS-Smile era tribute shots from Cornelius' "Fantasma" booklet, for those interested.







Seeing those kinds of photos in an album package 20 years ago was like finding a kindred spirit in terms of knowing and paying tribute to the best music ever made... Smiley

These are awesome!
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: September 20, 2018, 07:56:36 AM
Why torture yourself? Wink

Like I said, I'll wait and see what the tour actually entails. A big part of me simply doesn't want to put any more money into Bruce Johnston's pocket after the unsolicited verbal abuse I received in Ocean City last year. However, I'd love to finally hear the Christmas tracks live, and Brian's Christmas tour isn't coming close enough.

But you've had other good interactions with Bruce, yeah? He's probably undiagnosed bipolar, but whatever. He's been more than nice to me several times, and one time he was a bit prickly. He's really the one Beach Boy you can delve into rare album tracks and session work, and he'll talk to you about it! You wanna meet these guys, that's the risk you take. He's in his mid 70s and travels around in a bus 200 days out of the year, and people are always wanting to talk to him. You'd probably be a grump sometimes, too.

Your postings in regard to the BB band on this board were really positive pre-Bruce brushing you off on his way to the tour bus after a show. Ever since that experience, you seem sour on them. I get it, but there's not enough time for that. Pretty soon, you'll be able to see NO original Beach Boys. There will be cover bands touring the country, and that's the only way you'll be able to hear this music live.

Do yourself a favor - go see Brian as many times as is feasible, go see Mike/Bruce as many times as is feasible. Once they're gone, they're gone. You'll be sad and you'll be sorry. Go make a new memory with Bruce if you can.

You're not wrong. I also have a lot of respect and admiration for Scott Totten and John Cowsill. It's always a treat to hear them handle the catalog so carefully. As for new memories though, I'll just stay away. I've had lots and lots of interactions with Mike and Bruce. They've been nothing but excellent with Mike. You're right about Bruce. They've gone both ways. What bothered me about Bruce last summer, was that I did not engage or deserve the comment he made. It was a bit more than "slagging off". For those new to the party, I was waiting in a specific location given to me to meet John Cowsill after a concert to have my photo signed, near the tour bus...like 15-20 feet from the bus. As each band member came out to go on the bus (Mike included) I said Goodnight and thanked them for a great show, they all replied accordingly and kept walking. Out comes Bruce...I think I managed to get out "Hi Bruce, Great show..." before I was interrupted with him screaming "NOPE! NOT GONNA DO IT!" (I can only assume that he assumed the photo in my hand was for him to sign) so I replied "I'm sorry, I'm waiting for Mr. Cowsill to sign my photo." as he walked to the bus, stomped up the steps and shouted "Well all RIGHT then Mr. MAAAAAAN" and slammed the door to the bus.

Bruce is a good guy. If you ever get into a dialogue with him again, and he's at all rude, give it right back to him, you'll probably end up having a good laugh.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: September 06, 2018, 07:31:09 PM
Longer piece
https://www.newjerseystage.com/articles/2018/08/31/unleash-the-love-the-beach-boys-live-at-the-great-auditorium/
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennisís Women on: September 05, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
What did membership in the 'Golden Penetrators' entail? With a group focus and set goals, these numbers could have been very large, and being Hollywood, it's possible some of the women have been well known.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Had To Phone Ya on: September 01, 2018, 10:52:33 AM
Hearing the instrumental tracks were a revelation for me.

Always liked the song, but ya,  hearing the instrumental was incredible!
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carol Kaye interview with Dutch TV station on: August 31, 2018, 11:07:49 AM
I wish they would have made reference to 'The Wrecking Crew' and we could have seen her really go off the the rails, lol.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: RIP Robin Leach (Mike Love on Lifestyles on the Rich & Famous) on: August 29, 2018, 01:14:51 PM
Mike's Hawaiian property looks like it was pretty spectacular. Was the pond with waterfall actually on his estate or someplace close by?
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Recording of \ on: August 29, 2018, 12:14:42 PM
While I don't understand the point of why it was done, I don't think Mike sounds bad. His older, weathered voice seems to work pretty well on this one.

Now granted, I was listening from a TV at a low-ish volume. There is likely a slathering of autotune. I also thought the "sum-sum-summer" thing at the beginning was definitely similar to the backing vocals that feature later in the original version of the song.

I have to get back to the point and say I don't understand why this was done though? New, non-holiday album? New single? Why is this gonna get attention if his "Do It Again" single didn't?

The 'why' is a valid question..not a big fan of all the remakes.
But here is an interview from earlier in the month. I post it only because, early on, Mike claims he is done with all the crap from the past and is focusing on 'his' version of The Beach Boys. It does perhaps clarify why he seems to have a push on to record these last couple of years. I hope this also means that moving forward, he won't be dragging up all the old bad blood in interviews. I suppose it also dials back any expectations of another reunion.

http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/entertainmentlife/20180810/beach-boys-mike-love-happy-with-good-thing
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce on Friends on: August 29, 2018, 11:29:23 AM
More generally, Bruce has had many a head-scratching interview.

As opposed to some other member (e.g. Al), where something is just being mis-remembered or whatever, Bruce sometimes tends to say things in interviews that seem kind of bold and entitled, and then when you think about it for a few moments, you start realizing how inaccurate and/or hypocritical the comment can be. He seems to like either laying it on THICK praising everybody, or weirdly takes this sort of faux-outsider/objective viewpoint and can be pretty critical (and that type of criticism is sometimes seemingly accurate, sometimes not, and always of questionable motive/justification).

Remember how he described the Paley sessions? His comments to Howie Edelson:

"That was a courtesy to Brian for us to be there. Brian certainly wasn't at any kind of peak in those days, but we respected his history and achievements for us to go and record with him and see what it might sound like. We were just trying to support someone who had been successful and good for us. I think if you use your ears, you'll hear that those tapes don't really lift off. It's fine -- but not fine enough."

This is a good example of something that probably actually holds a bit more water than his "Friends" assessment, but has serious objectivity/motive/sourcing issues. It's a bit like Mike questioning autotune on BB or Brian material. It's not an invalid issue to raise in general, but once it's coming from a guy who cranked autotune up to 11 on his own projects, his credibility is a huge issue.



Yes, this does seem to sum up Bruce in a nutshell. I still think it's interesting to hear what he has to say on any level though. It's sometimes contradictory, but that is a trait not exclusive to him, by any means.

I think sometimes he'll take the conversation in a specific direction, while other time's he'll kinda go with the flow. Also self deprecation is often present.  I think he might have a point about the Friends material in that it may have been a tough fit with the older stuff at the time. Friends is an incredible album...definitely chill.

And I have always felt he does play somewhat of a dual role of Insider/Observer when it comes to the band.

25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: August 23, 2018, 09:16:32 AM
Much like the end of C50, even though we knew from the start that it was intended to be a limited run, it is sad to see this channel gone so quickly.  Hopefully they found that enough people listened for them to at least consider bringing it back in the future, even if only during the summer (although I think there is more than enough material to fill the channel year-round and still keep it fresh).

No more (radio) shows for The Wilsons!
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