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637735 Posts in 25492 Topics by 3625 Members - Latest Member: spgass September 18, 2018, 06:58:05 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: September 06, 2018, 07:31:09 PM
Longer piece
https://www.newjerseystage.com/articles/2018/08/31/unleash-the-love-the-beach-boys-live-at-the-great-auditorium/
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis’s Women on: September 05, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
What did membership in the 'Golden Penetrators' entail? With a group focus and set goals, these numbers could have been very large, and being Hollywood, it's possible some of the women have been well known.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Had To Phone Ya on: September 01, 2018, 10:52:33 AM
Hearing the instrumental tracks were a revelation for me.

Always liked the song, but ya,  hearing the instrumental was incredible!
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carol Kaye interview with Dutch TV station on: August 31, 2018, 11:07:49 AM
I wish they would have made reference to 'The Wrecking Crew' and we could have seen her really go off the the rails, lol.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: RIP Robin Leach (Mike Love on Lifestyles on the Rich & Famous) on: August 29, 2018, 01:14:51 PM
Mike's Hawaiian property looks like it was pretty spectacular. Was the pond with waterfall actually on his estate or someplace close by?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Recording of \ on: August 29, 2018, 12:14:42 PM
While I don't understand the point of why it was done, I don't think Mike sounds bad. His older, weathered voice seems to work pretty well on this one.

Now granted, I was listening from a TV at a low-ish volume. There is likely a slathering of autotune. I also thought the "sum-sum-summer" thing at the beginning was definitely similar to the backing vocals that feature later in the original version of the song.

I have to get back to the point and say I don't understand why this was done though? New, non-holiday album? New single? Why is this gonna get attention if his "Do It Again" single didn't?

The 'why' is a valid question..not a big fan of all the remakes.
But here is an interview from earlier in the month. I post it only because, early on, Mike claims he is done with all the crap from the past and is focusing on 'his' version of The Beach Boys. It does perhaps clarify why he seems to have a push on to record these last couple of years. I hope this also means that moving forward, he won't be dragging up all the old bad blood in interviews. I suppose it also dials back any expectations of another reunion.

http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/entertainmentlife/20180810/beach-boys-mike-love-happy-with-good-thing
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce on Friends on: August 29, 2018, 11:29:23 AM
More generally, Bruce has had many a head-scratching interview.

As opposed to some other member (e.g. Al), where something is just being mis-remembered or whatever, Bruce sometimes tends to say things in interviews that seem kind of bold and entitled, and then when you think about it for a few moments, you start realizing how inaccurate and/or hypocritical the comment can be. He seems to like either laying it on THICK praising everybody, or weirdly takes this sort of faux-outsider/objective viewpoint and can be pretty critical (and that type of criticism is sometimes seemingly accurate, sometimes not, and always of questionable motive/justification).

Remember how he described the Paley sessions? His comments to Howie Edelson:

"That was a courtesy to Brian for us to be there. Brian certainly wasn't at any kind of peak in those days, but we respected his history and achievements for us to go and record with him and see what it might sound like. We were just trying to support someone who had been successful and good for us. I think if you use your ears, you'll hear that those tapes don't really lift off. It's fine -- but not fine enough."

This is a good example of something that probably actually holds a bit more water than his "Friends" assessment, but has serious objectivity/motive/sourcing issues. It's a bit like Mike questioning autotune on BB or Brian material. It's not an invalid issue to raise in general, but once it's coming from a guy who cranked autotune up to 11 on his own projects, his credibility is a huge issue.



Yes, this does seem to sum up Bruce in a nutshell. I still think it's interesting to hear what he has to say on any level though. It's sometimes contradictory, but that is a trait not exclusive to him, by any means.

I think sometimes he'll take the conversation in a specific direction, while other time's he'll kinda go with the flow. Also self deprecation is often present.  I think he might have a point about the Friends material in that it may have been a tough fit with the older stuff at the time. Friends is an incredible album...definitely chill.

And I have always felt he does play somewhat of a dual role of Insider/Observer when it comes to the band.

8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: August 23, 2018, 09:16:32 AM
Much like the end of C50, even though we knew from the start that it was intended to be a limited run, it is sad to see this channel gone so quickly.  Hopefully they found that enough people listened for them to at least consider bringing it back in the future, even if only during the summer (although I think there is more than enough material to fill the channel year-round and still keep it fresh).

No more (radio) shows for The Wilsons!
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: August 20, 2018, 08:49:38 AM
Good Vibes continue

http://www.sungazette.com/news/top-news/2018/08/the-beach-boys-attract-diverse-crowd-at-series/
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - \ on: August 17, 2018, 11:05:24 AM
It looks like Mike will be bundling his holiday CD with "Beach Boys" ticket sales coming up. The blurb below has accompanied recent ticket announcements. I think this one is for a show in December:

This band has birthed a torrent of hit singles and sold albums by the tens of millions, but its greater significance lies in the fact that The Beach Boys’ songs have forever changed the musical landscape, profoundly influencing countless performing artists to follow. The Beach Boys have continued to create and perform with the same bold imagination and style that marked their explosive debut over 50 years ago. The Beach Boys found through their music the key to unfading youth— and they made copies for everyone. To these guys, the beach isn’t just a place where the surf comes to play: it’s where life is renewed and made whole again. Each ticket includes a CD copy of frontman Mike Love’s new holiday album, Reason for the Season.


I have asked this before, but can Mike put a valuation on each CD (say 25bucks) and claim it as separate that value from the ticket revenue? In my thinking, if he can do this he can create revenue exempt from the licensing payments to BRI

So if it was 60 bucks a ticket, and he sells 2000 tickets, each with a CD bundled with a value of 25 dollars, he diverts 50k from ticket sales by classifying as cd sales. It would be a great scam, and also over the course of say, 30 shows claim he had sold 60,000 CDs!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - \ on: August 17, 2018, 08:03:54 AM
Bruce referred to it as a family affair, so thinking there may be some Christian and Ambha input.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian-Then He Kissed Me-Spector on: August 17, 2018, 07:59:39 AM
This isn't much to add, but I have a vague recollection that when Al started doing the song with Brian at their shows together in 2006/2007, it was at the behest of Brian more than Al (and of course Brian had been doing it himself in the previous few years). It may have even been Al that mentioned in some interview that it was Brian's idea for Al to do the song. Al hadn't been doing that one at his post-1998 solo shows.

Interesting. You would think Al would have had that one on his set list in regular rotation.
Just watched a YouTube clip of one of the C50 shows. Nice job by Al. Mike yells 'Keep if clean with Al Jardine' after, lol.

13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian-Then He Kissed Me-Spector on: August 16, 2018, 10:11:47 AM
Has Brian made any comments on 'Then He Kissed Me'? I know when it comes to his obsession with Spector, Be My Baby gets most of the ink, in terms of his love for Phil.

When I hear Side 1 of Today, I hear a lot of 'Then He Kissed Me', especially that opening riff. Good to My Baby, Don't Hurt My Little Sister ( apparently offered to Spector?) Dance, Dance, Dance. I hear the THKM influence. And of course, it shows up on Summer Days as Then I kissed Her.

I was curious if Brian ever discussed the song, specifically.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 15, 2018, 11:44:55 AM
It could have been worse, they could have gotten an actual annoying personality. Reiner is likeable. At this event, he was essentially a more energetic, dynamic version of a Larry King type. But again, I think it's fair to call the thing what it is. They could have snagged a Howie Edelson, or Alan Boyd, or heck, even Jerry Schilling, to do the event, all additional people who have good relationships with all factions, and who would also understand how to strike a balance between softball, obvious questions (e.g. "did you guys surf?", "why has your music endured all these years?") and something a bit more substantive without going into "Drip Drop/Lazy Lizzie/That Special Feeling" deep cut territory.

I think the Reiner selection was emblematic of the SiriusXM channel in general. That is, it's a nice project that has gone over well enough and certainly hasn't hurt anything, but which hasn't really lived up to its full potential.


I wonder if they considered Stamos?
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: August 14, 2018, 08:41:26 AM


Nice of them to mention how Brian Wilson and CARL JARDINE are touring in Europe right now, after mentioning how "everyone knows the Beach Boys' story"...

It's amazing how many factual errors appear in these type of articles. Wrong names. Wrong names put to pictures. Always just basic 'checkable' flubs.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 2018 Tour Thread on: August 13, 2018, 06:30:44 AM
Cape Cod Times reporting Good Vibes

http://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20180812/beach-boys-bring-magic-in-waves
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 04:01:14 PM
What if Brian had showed up with five “Love & Mercy” shirts? Would Mike have worn that? And if he hadn’t, would it have been out of line to say group politics could have at least tangentially been involved? I don’t think so.

Sorry to single out this one point, but I've seen this analogy numerous times now and I think it's off-base. This was a Beach Boys reunion. What's the main characteristic of Mike's signature shirt? Yep, the blue and white stripes. Compare that to a "Love & Mercy" shirt or any other Brian solo shirt that has nothing to do with the Beach Boys. I agree that Dave's comments and Mary Ann Jardine's comments don't silence all such commentary (e.g. the mismatched appearance), but Mike's shirts aren't all that out of place at a Beach Boys reunion. Certainly not to the same extent a "Love & Mercy" shirt would be. It's not like Mike brought in "Unleash The Love" shirts for everyone to wear at a Beach Boys reunion. My thoughts on the entire shirt fiasco is, yes, it's the first thing I noticed when I looked at the group photo. It certainly deserved a mention and a discussion. Still, I consider it a footnote. That seems to be the perspective of those involved (that we've heard from).

It may not be a shirt with "Love and Mercy" written in giant letters, but it's still very much a "Mike Love" shirt being that his face (and only his face) is stitched into the shirt. In particular: being as it has certainly been a undeniably "touchy" aspect throughout recent years with regards to who is in the "BBs" band... these shirts are basically the statement MIKE LOVE IS THE BEACH BOYS in shirt form (what "band" t-shirts only have 1 member on them??)... and especially after Brian and Al felt pushed out of the band not so very long ago, it just feels tacky for the guy who pushed them out of the band (or if people want to get technical, the guy who made them feel like they were pushed out of the band) to bring those recently pushed-out guys shirts as gifts to wear at a reunion activity.

I'm glad David and Mary Ann are seeing things in a nice light, and I applaud them for just trying to make peace and at least publicly try to smooth things out. Truthfully, and I mean this very sincerely, I'm not trying to sh*t on their thoughts, nor the reunion, just by having my own opinion. I'm glad they don't see any deeper meaning. It doesn't mean that in the light of the history of the band, that the appearance (as HeyJude pointed out) isn't nevertheless just a bit off-putting for many fans (and publications) in light of the highly negative and egregiously inflammatory things that Mike has said about any number of Brian projects that "excluded" Mike.

Does a Beach Boys shirt with only Mike's face on it not somehow exclude Brian too? This may sound like a funny conversation, and it sort of is of course... but still, how is that comparison off-base? There's some truth in it.  If Mike didn't repeatedly say such negative stuff about "Brian content" countless times, this conversation would probably not exist. This is a shirt by the guy who made the biggest friggin' deal in the world in interviews, over and over and over and over again, about how it was SUCH a terrible and insulting thing for him (Mike) to not be completely included in aspects of the band in a manner that he (Mike) saw fit during the last reunion. So yeah, Mike wants everyone to cry a river that he did was not properly included as he should have been, and that TWGMTR was too Brian-centric (leaving out Mike), but then it's fine for Mike to expect Brian to wear a Mike shirt that takes the iconic brand fashion imagery and puts only Mike's face on it.

I think some people are simply bugged at Mike's inconsistency of what he has historically, repeatedly gotten publicly outraged at, when they see his actions. There's really nothing much more to it than that.

There's noooo doubt in my mind that if Brian had done the same thing (let's say Brian had a line of Brian Wilson striped shirts with only Brian's face taken from a 1960s Beach Boys photo, and asked Mike to wear it), that Mike would've have found a way (either right then and there, or years down the line) to make a big public hissy fit about being slighted, and to complain about Brian (or Melinda) having the chutzpah to expect Mike wear a Brian Wilson solo shirt to a Beach Boys reunion.

Honestly, anyone defending Mike in this discussion, please refute this. I'll expect crickets, just as JuiceBronston ducked out of my prior line of questioning.

Side note: if Reiner was “pro” matching shirts, that would surely mean Reiner wanted everyone to have matching shirts (or no one); I'm sure that if the "idea" of the band wearing matching shirts was mentioned to Reiner, that it would seem like a potentially nice idea on the surface, but no way in hell Reiner was somehow pushing for the idea of some members wearing matching shirts and some not.  Nobody in their right mind would think that was an ideal situation.

Also - none of this means that more great reunion activities are "tarnished", and I wish the band collective good vibrations from here on out.

With all this talk about trolling, it's hard for me to see posters who duck out of a back-and-forth conversation (the minute they can't refute an inconvenient truth) as anything but trolling, whether it's intended to be trolling or not. Even if trying very hard to not see this as trolling, it's just plain rude at best. I predicted crickets, and I was correct.

Trolling?

The main point of my post (Reply #383) is that the analogy is weak. I suppose I could have clarified that it's not entirely off-base, but it's weak enough (as I illustrated in my post) that it undermines otherwise balanced arguments. That still stands. That doesn't mean that I don't ultimately agree with the point HeyJude was making. Furthermore, I happen to agree with just about everything else HeyJude said in the post I responded to and his response to me. As I said, I have seen that analogy a few times now and I just wanted to comment on it. I don't find it persuasive. I acknowledge all the points you made, they've already been made. I wasn't commenting on them. What inconvenient truth can't I refute? I honestly wasn't even sure you were addressing me when you called out Mike defenders.


Sorry, it wasn't intended towards you. That was actually directed to JuiceBrohnston, with whom I was having a polite convo with in this thread, until my questions I asked of him began to get no response. And it's kind of annoying because it seems this stonewalling happened just as I made a point that IMO would be difficult to refute. My point that I was making was that if the shoe was on the other foot (if Brian was the one who had a line of shirts, and Brian brought in a Brian-branded line of striped Beach Boys-style shirts, with Brian's (and only Brian's) face from a 1960s promo Beach Boys photo stitched into the shirt sleeve... I think it is a bit absurd to think of Mike happily going along with wearing said hypothetical shirt. I think Mike would find a way to get upset about it then and there, or at some future point he'd complain about it, and use it as a way to show how disrespected he has been treated).

And generally, I don't understand how any educated fan with knowledge of the band, and awareness of Mike's repeated actions, such as Mike's history of publicly berating Brian's solo products in various interviews, and Mike's 2005 ugly lawsuit against Brian (complete with fake "witnesses" who were in cahoots with Mike's lawyers) making a giant hissy fit over band/brand name technicalities on a promo CD, can think it is a move that is without chutzpah for Mike to have brought Mike-branded BBs shirts for Brian to wear to a Beach Boys reunion.  I legit am trying to understand it.

I'm not a hater, I don't think Mike is a talentless hack. I am simply bugged by his inconsistent actions.

I went back in this thread to try and figure out what the hell you are talking about and how I was 'trolling' you?
You mentioned some polite conversation, I had no recollection of. I see you asked me a bunch of questions about what if Brian had brought shirts for everybody? Shortly thereafter, David Marks commented publicly on the matter, and I felt it was no longer a pertinent discussion. Trolling....hmmm. Not up on my definition but wouldn't it be more a case of you trolling me?
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 02:05:07 PM
One interesting point that I believe highlights Mike was much more interested in *exiting* the reunion than under some immediate pressing obligation to book a ton of his own dates quickly is this:

Regarding Mike being required to book his own shows back after C50, it's worth actually looking at his tour schedule for the remainder of 2012 and into 2013.

From September 30, 2012 through the beginning of February 2013, Mike booked...wait for it.... NINE shows across EIGHT venues.

He dumped the reunion tour in order to play these shows:

September 30 - The Legacy Concert for the Children, The Santaluz Club, San Diego, CA
October 5 - Extraco Events Center, Waco, TX  
October 6 - The Backyard, Austin, TX  
October 12 - Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS
October 13 - Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS
December 21 - New Orleans Bowl Friday Night Concert, Champion's Square, New Orleans, LA (Free Show)
December 28 - Pike's Peak Center, Colorado Springs, CO  
December 31 - Mystic Lake Casino, Prior Lake, MN (2 Shows)

Nothing in November 2012, nothing in January 2013. Only FOUR shows in February 2013. Even assuming maybe he booked a few private/corporate gigs we don't know about, and even taking into account at least three canceled gigs (two in South America, plus the infamous "Nutty Jerry's" gig), I somehow doubt BRI had a requirement that both *forced* Mike to book shows, but then also allowed for such a *light* tour schedule.

This is just my total guess/gut feeling, but it kind of smells like Mike just started booking a hand full of shows to essentially create a plausible reason to say he couldn't do more reunion shows (See? I already have my own shows booked!), and also to start getting his foot back in the door and re-establish his band as the going "Beach Boys" touring concern.

Look at that schedule. THREE shows between mid-October 2012 and February 2013. They could have *easily* booked some year-end reunion gigs to try to cap the whole thing off on better terms (and that's just assuming they still wouldn't continue the reunion on any sort of even semi-permanent basis). As was bandied about some time back, even just one or two year-ending shows at the Staples Center or something could have easily been done.

Part of this, as you are quoted as saying below, is just how Mike rolls out his tours. It's never an announcement of a full slate of shows.

"Also, if one has followed Mike's tour and scheduling habits over the years, they will have found that Mike never really "announces" a tour. He never unveils a tour schedule. It just sort of continually exists and is updated on an ongoing basis. It takes a few months into the year for summer tour dates to fill out. " -Hey Jude


Yes, and you're taking my comment about Mike's *typical* touring procedure out of context. That comment, from another thread and on a different topic (namely Mike's *current* touring), pertained to his typical rollout for a given year.

Additionally, my comment quoted above about his tour rollout pertained to *how* tour dates were announced and *when*. I was *not* speaking to the total number of tour dates. During that September to Febuary timeline discussed in the current thread, a total of nine shows is *very atypical* of any recent Mike tour schedules.

2012 was obviously unique, and normally I wouldn't scrutinize too heavily that Mike just did some scattered dates in the latter half of 2012 into early 2013. However, it was Mike and Mike alone who consistently referred back to a pressing need if not requirement to continue to tour, and he often used "I had already booked my own dates" as a reason (however bogus) for ending the reunion tour.

He had dates booked at the end of September into early-mid October. So if there were so many offers, and he was *required* to endlessly tour by BRI, why was there a 2-month-plus gap between October 13 and December 21?

Again, between mid-October 2012 and the end of January 2013, he did *three* shows over the span of about three and a half months. That's not only atypical for Mike's touring routine, it completely contradicts his stated pressing need to continue to tour (and seems to clash with the implication that offers were just flooding in for his edition of the band) and clearly shows there was plenty of leeway to continue with more reunion shows.

I fully understand all of the variables. By the second half of 2012, he would certainly be getting plenty of offers for 2013. If he truly didn't start booking *any* of his own shows until June of 2012, then the second half of the year would not be as jam packed as a typical latter half of the year of touring for his band. But if he was pounding the pavement and snagging tons of bookings, and if he truly was *immediately* required by BRI to go back out, I don't buy again, as I've said, that BRI would both *have* an immediate legal requirement for him to book shows without any break, but then *also* allow him to book so few shows.

Again, my total guess of a takeaway is that he first and foremost didn't want to continue the reunion, and everything else is a justification for the reunion ending instead of just simply and plainly stating what his words strongly indicate, which is that it wasn't about a legal requirement to book his own shows, it wasn't about needing to "give it a rest" to build up demand, it wasn't about an e-mail (later retracted by Mike's own admission). It was about Mike quitting the Beach Boys in September 2012; of disliking Melinda more than his desire to continue working with Brian and the other guys as a fully reunited unit.

I agree with your last paragraph. Mike wanted out. Probably for a number of reasons. But my take on it, and it's just that, is that it all exists in one big stinkin' pile. I think mistakes were made on both sides. It wasn't entirely Mike's fault on C50. And stuff like the email, again in my opinion only shows that it was poorly handled all around. Ironically that can be brought right back to the actual origins of this thread. A reunion that seems to be the product of a hard working manager that can get sides to cooperate. That would have been something to have on C50.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 01:39:46 PM
So many questions.

Yep and no definitive answers, really. Mike's chimed in, have we ever heard rebuttals?
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 01:35:54 PM
One interesting point that I believe highlights Mike was much more interested in *exiting* the reunion than under some immediate pressing obligation to book a ton of his own dates quickly is this:

Regarding Mike being required to book his own shows back after C50, it's worth actually looking at his tour schedule for the remainder of 2012 and into 2013.

From September 30, 2012 through the beginning of February 2013, Mike booked...wait for it.... NINE shows across EIGHT venues.

He dumped the reunion tour in order to play these shows:

September 30 - The Legacy Concert for the Children, The Santaluz Club, San Diego, CA
October 5 - Extraco Events Center, Waco, TX  
October 6 - The Backyard, Austin, TX  
October 12 - Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS
October 13 - Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS
December 21 - New Orleans Bowl Friday Night Concert, Champion's Square, New Orleans, LA (Free Show)
December 28 - Pike's Peak Center, Colorado Springs, CO  
December 31 - Mystic Lake Casino, Prior Lake, MN (2 Shows)

Nothing in November 2012, nothing in January 2013. Only FOUR shows in February 2013. Even assuming maybe he booked a few private/corporate gigs we don't know about, and even taking into account at least three canceled gigs (two in South America, plus the infamous "Nutty Jerry's" gig), I somehow doubt BRI had a requirement that both *forced* Mike to book shows, but then also allowed for such a *light* tour schedule.

This is just my total guess/gut feeling, but it kind of smells like Mike just started booking a hand full of shows to essentially create a plausible reason to say he couldn't do more reunion shows (See? I already have my own shows booked!), and also to start getting his foot back in the door and re-establish his band as the going "Beach Boys" touring concern.

Look at that schedule. THREE shows between mid-October 2012 and February 2013. They could have *easily* booked some year-end reunion gigs to try to cap the whole thing off on better terms (and that's just assuming they still wouldn't continue the reunion on any sort of even semi-permanent basis). As was bandied about some time back, even just one or two year-ending shows at the Staples Center or something could have easily been done.

Part of this, as you are quoted as saying below, is just how Mike rolls out his tours. It's never an announcement of a full slate of shows.

"Also, if one has followed Mike's tour and scheduling habits over the years, they will have found that Mike never really "announces" a tour. He never unveils a tour schedule. It just sort of continually exists and is updated on an ongoing basis. It takes a few months into the year for summer tour dates to fill out. " -Hey Jude
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 01:22:04 PM
Here's some archival material to consider along with what's already been posted. If some of the links don't work, please point that out so they can be read/seen.

If we're talking about the dates, as in June 1st and then "20 days later" in this comment from "Juice" 'The first was sent June 1, the second email, some 20 days later. Days! Not minutes or hours. If there was no further discussion within that 20 day period, I could see Mike believing that there would indeed be no more shows.'

Consider that Mike first announced the shows in South America during a phone interview while riding on a C50 bus with the newspaper La Tercera which is in Chile.


A rough translation of the original "La Tercera" article which was already shared and circulating in the South American press on June 22, 2012:

"The Beach Boys returns to Santiago in October without Brian Wilson in the group

The band has already closed a deal to be presented at the end of October at Movistar Arena. Despite the reunion tour, they will only be led by another of their history, Mike Love.

The Beach Boys once again puts Chile on its road map. But, just like the previous two, he does it with certain nuances around his past and his present. If the announcements of 2005 -recital that was canceled- and 2011 -for a private event- presented a band that in those days led only two historical members, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston, this time the trip will also be with restricted contingent.

The Americans have just closed an upcoming South American tour for the last quarter and have already agreed on a concert for October at Movistar Arena, tentative date for the 26th. It is their first show for all audiences in the country. Of course, and although in December made the meeting and tour of its most important cast official - with Love and Johnston with Al Jardine, David Marks and Brian Wilson - the current reunion tour will not go through Santiago. In concrete terms, the group will only come with Love as a leader and without Wilson, the symbol and brain of Californians.

This is confirmed by Love himself, on the phone with La Tercera from the bus that takes them across North America in his current journey: "Yes, we are planning to go to South America. But those recitals will not be part of the reunion tour. " Consulted if it will be the same show that was offered in November of last year in Espacio Riesco, for a financial services firm, the artist responds with a concise "exact".

One point: the live return of the men of Pet Sounds (1966) marks dates until September in Oceania and England, all with Wilson in the set. Although his cousin, Love, prefers not to delve into the reasons why the soul of The Beach Boys will not be part of some sections of the course, there is room for lucubration. For example, since 1965, Wilson decided to leave the tours with his classmates to concentrate on the masterpieces that would be dispatched during the second part of the 60s. In other times, the singer also resigned on stage due to his problems with drugs and their psychiatric problems. In fact, he has never had much empathy with the respectable: although the reviews of his current tour, which started in April, have been praiseworthy, they have all emphasized that the musician responds to his historical profile and feels distant and distant. The coordinates for your local appointment will become official in the coming days.



And this published June 22 in Peru's "El Comercio" newspaper which was cited in a Guardian article June 27th:

Friday, June 22, 2012 | 13:14
The Beach Boys confirmed a tour of South America
Mike Love, vocalist of the Californian band, announced a visit for the month of October, but without the presence of Brian WilsonThe Beach Boys, the legendary Californian rock band, will visit South America. This was announced by Mike Love, vocalist and composer of the group, in an interview with the Chilean newspaper "La Tercera".

In a telephone conversation with the aforementioned medium, Love clarified that the concerts will not be part of the reunion tour of the band, so it will not be attended by Brian Wilson, perhaps the most emblematic member of the group.

As you remember, The Beach Boys have 50 dates around the world to celebrate their 50th anniversary in music.
"

A link to the original La Tercera article and phone interview: http://diario.latercera.com/edicionimpresa/the-beach-boys-vuelve-a-santiago-en-octubre-sin-brian-wilson-en-el-grupo/

And a cache archive of the June 22, 2012 El Comercio article: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2FdypxK_h1oJ:https://elcomercio.pe/luces/musica/beach-boys-confirmaron-gira-america-sur-noticia-1431754+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


News of the Nutty Jerry's booking was published in a local paper on June 20, 2012:

The Beach Boys Coming to Nutty Jerry's In Winnie October 6
Craig Hlavaty | June 20, 2012 | 2:00pm

If you missed the reunited and augmented Beach Boys a few weeks back in the Woodlands, you will have a second chance to see the band on October 6 out at Nutty Jerry's in Winnie. Yes, it's a long drive, but this tour is worth seeing.

As Rocks Off confirmed from Nutty Jerry's PR, this will in fact be the lineup that was at the Woodlands on June 8. There was some question to whether or not this would be Mike Love's version of the group that tours sans Brian Wilson.

Tickets are available here on the Jerry's site. While you are there, why not snag your America tickets?

Speaking of Wilson, the pop architect turns 70 years old today, so be sure and play Pet Sounds or SMiLE super-loud, or softly, whichever you prefer.

The Beach Boys are touring behind their first new album in decades, That's Why God Made The Radio, and their current setlists have been having upwards of 45 songs on them. In a recent interview with guitarist Al Jardine, he commented that he hopes that the band's dynamic can lend itself to more touring, at least every two years. It looks like they are in fact making a go of it.

In the current issue of Rolling Stone the band talks about their shaky but working relationship on the road and in the studio. Fun fact: Michael McDonald scares the sh*t out of Brian Wilson.


Followed by news of the cancellation and confusion published June 25, 2012:

Beach Boys Not Coming To Nutty Jerry's After All
Craig Hlavaty | June 25, 2012 | 4:30pm

Last week I told you about an upcoming Beach Boys date out in Winnie at Nutty Jerry's. The show sparked my interest since I was still on a B-Boys high from their show in the Woodlands earlier this month, and I was happy that the Houston-area was getting another go-round with the group.

But today the venue issued this press release, effectively cancelling the date:

    Due to a misunderstanding with the Beach Boy's management and a local booking agent, the October 6th Beach Boys concert at Nutty Jerry's has been cancelled.

    The group that was scheduled to perform at Nutty Jerry's is not the same lineup as the current "Beach Boys 50th Anniversary" tour.

    As a result Nutty Jerry's did not feel that we could advertise the show as the "original" Beach Boys. Nutty Jerry's regrets the misunderstanding and any inconvenience to our loyal customers.

The release went on to give information about refunds and also teased another concert announcement for that same October 6 date.

You know what they say about things being too good to be true. For my part, I did confirm with Jerry's front office last week that the band coming to town was the one that played 46 songs at the Woodlands, but as you can see things quickly changed.

The best I can tell is that the version of the Beach Boys that was booked for Nutty's was the Mike Love version which was touring before this year's reunion run, with all surviving members in tow, including Brian Wilson. Once myself and others inquired about the distinction, someone must have figured out the difference and balked.

And now according to Rolling Stone, this is a thing that Love has been doing the whole time during the reunion shows.

This current Beach Boys tour is only listed as far as September 28 at Wembley Stadium.


Link to June 20 2012 article announcing Nutty Jerrys gig: https://www.houstonpress.com/music/the-beach-boys-coming-to-nutty-jerrys-in-winnie-october-6-6500272

Link to June 25 2012 article canceling Nutty Jerrys gig: https://www.houstonpress.com/music/beach-boys-not-coming-to-nutty-jerrys-after-all-6777328

By June 27, other media had picked up these stories and had begun reporting about Mike booking gigs while touring as C50.


That's just to put more information from June 2012 on the table as these stories broke and people found out about them via the press reports linked above.

The key is still the context of the "smoking gun" email, as in what was sent before and what was sent after.

But it is also worth noting that in one of the South American newspapers, as of June 21-22 2012, the tour was still reported as 50 shows. Which was the original plan, until it was extended due to demand.

So when exactly was it extended, or when was the decision made to extend it? Because if by June 22nd a news report in South America still had it as 50 shows, either they were late to get the updates (if there were any), or the so-called "set end date" wasn't quite set in stone when Mike announced the booking of shows in South America for October on a phone interview to South America while riding on the C50 bus.

If it fits, it fits. If not, well...let the discussions begin. But context is key if the whole shebang is pinned on an email from June, and this is just some context after the fact.






Makes sense from a timeline perspective. If Brian and Melinda bailed early June, Mike could have started booking shows for M&B right away, and by the time of these interviews, new shows would have been lined up under The Beach Boys Love License?

When did the tour go beyond 50 shows, any idea? Obviously they were working on this before the June 1 email, if the purpose of that email was to inform Michael that Brian wasn't carrying on.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 08, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.
Well at least one person has their facts straight.

*EVEN* if one believed that the alleged e-mail had some sort of impact on the end of the tour (despite REAMS of evidence to the contrary from folks including Mike himself), to assert it is a FACT that "BRIAN'S WIFE" sending one e-mail was the one and only reason for the end of C50 is, frankly, either troll behavior or such a gross lack of understanding of the history of C50 and of this band that one should refrain from discussing the topic until they become educated on the topic.

As in, simply reading MIKE'S OWN BOOK will give you MANY other reasons why the tour ended. The main take away after reading the book was that Mike made it EXPLICITY clear that he didn't like many if not most aspects of the tour and the reunion in general and got the hell out of there as quickly as he could. Really, his book, while having in my opinion some conflicting reasoning, actually offers some pretty strong clarity on why Mike didn't want to continue. To suggest the alleged "Wilson e-mail" ended C50 ignores MIKE'S OWN WORDS.

There ONE reason and one reason only in my opinion to make the ridiculous assertion that "the e-mail" caused the end of C50, and that is either to blindly (in my opinion) defend Mike Love (thus owning up to things even less than Mike himself does), and/or to attack Melinda and/or Brian. Or again, a GROSS and FUNDAMENTAL lack of understanding and knowledge of the C50 project and the band in general.

But the email certainly deserves discussion if one wants to form an opinion of the end of C50. Mike (as per his book) is having all kinds of problems with Melinda. He has his back up from the beginning, feels he isn't given his proper place in the studio. But he is apparently supposed to be 'in charge' on the tour side. He claims Melinda starts interfering in the process, and he almost walks before the tour even starts. As it rolls along, Mike is finding several issues with, what mostly seems to be, exorbitant tour expenses from Brian's 'camp'

So when the first email comes, (and I think it's important to note that two emails are discussed), which seems to be in response to an offer in Israel, Mike mentions it as, I suppose, some justification in booking new dates. Now he also mentions a second email. The first was sent June 1, the second email, some 20 days later. Days! Not minutes or hours. If there was no further discussion within that 20 day period, I could see Mike believing that there would indeed be no more shows.  If Mike is claiming that when Melinda wrote back to ask him to disregard the original email, that it was somehow too late to reverse the wheels in motion, well that seems questionable. But, as has been discussed to death here, the reason(s) are pretty clear why the tour didn't continue. Mike liked his own setup better. Emails, studio snubs, tour expenses, in the end he was going back to M&B. I'm glad he stuck it out for as long as he did, we were treated to some great shows.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 07, 2018, 07:21:34 AM
You cannot say definitively that the 'email' didn't play a part in the end of C50. It also would be naive to say that it was the only reason, or even the main reason for the end of the tour.

The thing that, in my opinion, gives Mike justification for ending the tour, was that, by everyone's admission, it was supposed to be a set number of dates. 50 I think, which was extended. That doesn't mean it's a bummer that it didn't continue. And it doesn't mean that Mike didn't end the thing for what could be described as 'selfish reasons'

I think Bruce was probably keen on getting back to the M&B format as well.

But, we were treated to a great tour in C50. I don't know that it could have gone on forever, but who knows. Here's a question, could Brian and Al have tried to convince Mike to carry on. Could they have given him more money, Found ways to entice him to carry on? Maybe Brian could have taken a moment at every show to thank Mike for his contributions and state there could have never been a Beach Boys without him. Could they have done more, if they really wanted the show to go on?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 03, 2018, 08:31:18 PM
Glad to see David set the record straight about the shirts over on Facebook.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM? on: August 02, 2018, 02:35:20 PM
Going to say this once... a certain person who has since been proven to be full of sh*t used to always say that the quickest way to burn bridges was to break confidentiality. That charlatan may have lied about many things but in this case he was right on the money. “Juice”, some of us “ may” have additional proof but couldn’t say anything. Just a theoretical of course 🙄

Totally respect that Billy, but that's where, as a poster, you have to be careful. I think in some instances better to say nothing, than to say I know this is true because someone told me so, but I can't tell you anything else. It's a fine line for sure. I've heard some crazy things from band members first hand. And there is an impulse to run over and talk about it here or elsewhere, but as you say, or to paraphrase AGD I guess, bridges can be burned.

Now maybe we should get back to the real purpose of this thread. Showing how Mike gave Brian an absolute F-U by bringing everybody shirts  Evil
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