So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Yep, that's definitely what I said when I was arguing that Brian shouldn't sack his backing musicians. It was definitely an argument that Brian is a better singer than Bruce, not at all an argument that French horns and flutes sound better than synth patches or that Brian should not sack his one permanent guitarist just because he's got Al Jardine playing with him for four shows. I was definitely arguing that Brian's vocals are always good...

Or at least my argument was as close to that as those synth patches are to the sound of real French horns, so obviously close enough for you...

Well I just found it convenient for you that you didn't bring that point up. Probably because you know that part IS the most important point, but you'd rather bicker over a flute here and there.

Horn/Flute: The horns line does not sound that different between clips.

You really can't hear the difference between a real French horn and a cheap synth plugin, can you?

Guitars/Keys: These sound better in the second clip but the difference is not very large, it is again just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Or count -- Nick on guitar, (presumably since we can't see them) Darian and Scott on keyboards, as opposed to Christian and Scott T on guitars and Bruce and Tim on keyboards.

Percussion: The percussion (except for someones distracting tambourine during verse one) in the first clip sounds just as good as the percussion in the second clip.

No, it simply doesn't. Cowsill does a very good job, but Cowsill on drums plus Mike whacking a tambourine hopelessly out of time does not match to a proper performance of the percussion part by three people.

I was at the gig in the first clip. It was a fantastic performance and I enjoyed every second. I don't want to take *one iota* of the credit away from Mike & Bruce's wonderful band. But they simply do not -- *cannot* -- perform the music from the Pet Sounds era as faithfully as Brian's band, and just saying they can won't change that.

So you CAN tolerate Brian slurring his lazy way through "God Only Knows" just so you can hear the damn claves click at the right time?

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

You go onto a BB board and praise Macca while actually writing "None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career" and expect people to just nod? Folks here (including myself) can be prickly at times, but your comment was pretty darn provocative. And I'm glad you said it! But you'll hear about it, too.

The point of my comments weren't to bring McCartney into this, in retrospect it does reaed that way and I apologize. But, I'd like to do a comparison. My original beef was with the excess of band members. So we'll ignore WHO is in each clip and just LISTEN to them...

The Beach Boys (M&B) God Only Knows 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv6GTO0unRs

Brian Wilson Band- God Only Knows 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txa69FSUG4g

---

Vocals: The lead vocals in the first clip are obviously much stronger and accurate than the second clip and I think it is a fair assessment to say that the first clip is the better sung version of the song.

Backups: The backup vox in the second clip are obviously much stronger but no more or less accurate than the first clip, it is just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Guitars/Keys: These sound better in the second clip but the difference is not very large, it is again just a fuller sound obviously due to the numbers at hand.

Horn/Flute: The horns line does not sound that different between clips. However, the live flute is definitely better than the keyboarded flute.

Percussion: The percussion (except for someones distracting tambourine during verse one) in the first clip sounds just as good as the percussion in the second clip.

So my final thought? The first clip is the better of the two. The lead vocals make that much of a difference to me. The lead vocals in the second clip are slurred and distracting taking away from the beauty of the performance. But, it probably wouldn't hurt the first clip to consider one or two changes in their lineup.

Now I remember why I kept my mouth shut after C50.....you aren't allowed to have an opinion on this board.....

That McCartney clip actually proves the point. That doesn't sound like a French horn, but like a cheesy Casio keyboard. It's horrible. It's the one big problem I've had with the two McCartney shows I've seen, actually -- Wix is a great keyboard player, but he can't replace a full string and horn section.

As for RubberSoul's lineup...
Al isn't a very good guitarist. Never has been. He's not bad, but he's a singer, not an instrumentalist.
Both Al and Dave are only guesting with Brian's band. It's probably not a good idea to sack your only full-time guitarist (who's also a much more versatile player than Dave) because you're getting a couple of guests in for four shows, one of whom, last time he toured with a "Brian Wilson" show, dropped out of the tour half-way through.
Getting rid of Scott Bennett is also, frankly, stupid. He's the only one in Brian's band who can do a decent job on Mike's bass vocal parts (though those are usually mixed quite far down), and most post-65 songs have at least two keyboard parts. Get rid of him and you're stuck the minute you want to do, say, God Only Knows (with a piano part and a string pad played on keyboards).
As for "drummer" -- one of the great things about Brian's band has always been that they've been able to reproduce the actual drum and percussion parts that Brian wrote, which are nothing like normal rock drums, in that there's almost no cymbal or hi-hat on there, and all the high frequency information comes instead from tambourines, sleigh bells and so on. Get rid of Nelson and, even if you don't count that he's incredible fun to watch and *really* good with the fans, you have to revert to bog-standard rock drumming.

All of this is not to mention personal loyalties and so on -- RubberSoul just assumes that Darian, for example, would want to keep working in a band that had just fired Nick Walusko, who's been a friend and colleague of his for more than twenty years. I think that's far from a foregone conclusion.

Personally, I think Brian's band should be *bigger* -- he should have kept touring with the Stockholm Strings And Horns. But I think this band is a perfect compromise between what's economically possible and what's artistically perfect.

You know what would be even cheaper than RubberSoul's lineup? Get Brian a tape of "Karaoke hits of the Beach Boys" and send him on stage alone to sing along to it...

I'm not going to get into McCartney on here and jack the thread but, He's the best live show on the planet. None of the beach boys have ever held a candle to his performance at any point in either career. That isn't a shitty casio either, that sounds like a french horn.

ANYWAY...I think this will be a justifiable response to all the other comments too: Al Jardine and David Marks shouldn't be on the tour if they can't pull their weight. Contrary to what someone said, I think David is probably the best guitarist in Brian's band. Yeah, Al is doing much...can't say I've EVER heard his guitar come through in the mix. But I'd imagine they'll use his voice to cover all of Mike's leads and make him seem even less important to the legacy.

Another thing everyone is conveniently leaving out, is that having more musicians doesn't add up to the cost of the performer...it adds to the cost of the FANS......

We aren't talking about the philharmonic. We're talking about a rock show. And not everything is "some shitty synth pad"

Paul McCartney- For No One (2005)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bltVvdWTbzQ

Sounds pretty damn well like a french horn to me...and that was eight years ago.

A more accurate breakdown would be --

2 guitarists
1 winds / harmonica player
1 guitarist / horn player
2 keyboard / vibes players
1 bassist
1 drummer
1 percussionist
1 falsettist
2 lead vocalists with instruments and occasionally throw in a riff or two.

It's still ridiculous. If Al Jardine and David Marks are prominent guitarists (which they SHOULD be after fifty friggin years) then there is no need for any other guitarists. The Beach Boys music never calls for more than two. The lineup should be something more like this...

Brian Wilson- Vocals, Grand Piano (I get it, he needs something to hide behind. I wouldn't even bother putting the keyboard in that thing.)
Daivd Marks- Vocals, Lead Guitar
Al Jardine- Vocals, Rhythm Guitar
Jeffrey Foskett- Vocals, Acoustic Guitar
Bob Lizik- Vocals, Bass
Darian S.- Vocals, Keyboards
Probyn Gregory- Vocals, Horns
Paul Von Mertens- Woodwinds, Etc., Percussion
Drummer

Even that is pushing it...there is no real need for live horns or woodwinds, it's sort of a bonus in this day and age. I only kept foskett in there because of his falsetto and I didn't know the drummers name...

Well put Sheriff...a good comparison would be The Happy Together Tour, that The Turtles put together. I saw it at Wolf Trap this year and it featured The Turtles, Chuck Negron, Gary Puckett, Mark Lindsay, and Gary Lewis.........all of these groups were around and popular and scoring hits when The Beach Boys were BUT, it took all FIVE of them to fill a venue that Mike & Bruce can by themselves.

I'm seeing my first of three M&B shows this year on Saturday, should be a fantastic time! It's the same venue I saw them the first time, and it is my absolute favorite venue in Baltimore and as of now.......NO STAMOS!

That is well put except...the beach boys aren't a law firm. They're a band, and I've seen what members of this band are capable of, and what others are not. But, I also understand the nostalgia, sentimental and historical value of having certain people on stage. I think the best solution would be to set up an annual residency with Brian at maybe three venues spread throughout the year, and let the other four members tour as The Beach Boys.

But really it was just Brian's presence that contributed to the live show last year...what did he really do that enhanced the show?

Being there and restoring the luster that had been lacking from the BBs name for decades. The band's main songwriter righted the ship and rediscovered being a BB.

How? Most of the time he just sat there. When he sang, it was good. He moved his arms up and down on "Sail on Sailor". I'm SO glad I got to see him and meet him and thank him for all this wonderful music, but some of the best beach boys live footage does NOT have Brian Wilson...jussayin. Love the guy to pieces, but he isn't the most important guy when we're talking live shows. He was only there because he's Brian Wilson.

Are they really lesser pieces of the LIVE show puzzle though? In the studio, I totally agree with you. But really it was just Brian's presence that contributed to the live show last year...what did he really do that enhanced the show? I never heard his piano once, and his lead vocals were good, but not outta this world. David really spiced things up too but again, he was really more of a "historical aspect" of the show. I never heard Al's guitar BUT, his voice really brought a lot of life to the show and I would say that next to Mike Love, AL Jardine brought the most to the table as far as voice quality/strength, setlist influence (California Saga!!!), and onstage charisma.

But it's obvious that the real stars of the C50 tour were Scott Totten, John Cowsill, Jeff Foskett, Darian S.....

They performed "Wild Honey" at one their fair shows in June...I'm seeing them at a regular concert, a fair, and a festival this year...so I'll get a little of everything!

"The shows are featuring all the hits that fans, both casual and serious, would expect, but we're also delving into some rare cuts as well, adding some songs that have rarely, if ever, been performed live.

Sounds like he's describing a Mike & Bruce show!

 

That's a lot truer than most folks probably realize! They seem to playing songs like Wild Honey, The Warmth of The Sun, etc. regularly this year!!! Even got Bluebirds Over The Mountain for Paris!

So it still boils down to money. Obviously Mike had already booked the next few months for his beach boys show with Bruce in September so when Brian suddenly said "let's do some more!" it was just not financially feasible...something I doubt Brian comprehends.

Yes but Mike doesn't have to let BRI decide what he puts into the live show. I'll be very surprised if we get ANY more "songs from the vault" in Mike and Bruce's set this summer.

I thought Goin' To The Beach sounded alright...it certainly fits the show. Just not an encore song after its debut...

HOWEVER, that was the first I had heard Mike & Bruce doing "Isn't it Time" and that certainly has some good and bad going for it. The song screams reunion...and I don't think the reunion of this particular beach boys band is the one the fans are screaming for. The new arrangement is weird...especially Mike singing the bridge...I don't like that...it just sounded wrong. However, props to Scott Totten & Bruce Johnston's vocals because they both kicked some major ass and held the fort down on this one! I wish Scott would play ukulele on it like Cq50 but I guess the band isn't big enough to compensate for the loss of guitar. Although Bruce could always play it...it's not like his hands are doing anything important over there  

I never got any negative vibes from any of the Beatles towards any of the beach boys but, whenever I see or read things of them being in the same place, the beatle (usually Paul) seems very uninterested and in photos often looks like he's just posing with another fan...whereas the beach boys usually tell these extravagant stories of meeting a beatle like ML's TM stories...or Bruce taking Pet Sounds to Lennon & McCartney...or Brian literally counting all his meetings with Paul.

Yeah, "Barbara Ann" usually floods the stage with women and children!

Well, I have a happy Bruce story!

I posted the WHOLE meet-n-greet experience in the thread for the show at Merriweather Post Pavilion last year, but here's the meat of it with Bruce extracts...I made each beach boy a personalized card since I knew I wouldn't get to talk to them, BUT the "photographer" flipped out and took them all. However, this got me like a good solid minute to chat it up with the beach boys! Anyway, Al and Bruce kept saying that we had met before even tho we hadn't. Now, Bruce was the last to get his card since he was last in line of the photo, so he probably got to read more of his right there than any others, so I'm guessing that's why when we were walking away- HE pulled ME back, shook my hand, and said "Thank YOU!"...I was with my grandmother and she was almost gone but he shouted out to her "Thanks Mom!"...needless to say, it made her night.

I think Brian should tour Pet Sounds again with Al and Dave.  He's already done it with Al and Dave found a great showcase on the 50th tour with the title track.  Also, it makes a more marketable tour concept than anything (provably only second to being called the Beach Boys which is out of the question). And having missed the original two Pet Sounds tours, having been too young to appreciate it then, it's something I would totally want to see and I'm probably not alone as the album's reputation only continues to grow.

I suggested last year that The Beach Boys attempt to either tour "Pet Sounds" or "SMiLE" perhaps in a brief run of smaller venues and the idea was basically shot down due to the fact that the band members are now in their seventies and not their sixties and asking the group to tour an entire album probably would be a big ask. 

The guys were already playing 48 song setlists anyway...just cut some of the deeper tracks that are on the list all ready, and fill em with the rest of the album tracks! It wouldn't be that unrealistic. John Fogerty is doing it this fall and he is 68.

Check out the set from May 31st in New Jersey.....about 10 songs longer than the benefit gig the following evening...hopefully things beef back up to this level for the summer shows!

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-beach-boys/2013/bergen-performing-arts-center-englewood-nj-43d9939f.html

I hope they don't open with "DO it Again"...it really bugs me that some setlists from this year have shown that M&B are opening with it, especially after re-recording it last year for the reunion and literally doin' it again as so many commercial appeals say...I guess everyone is back to doin' SOMETHING again......

Mike and Bruce have opened with that song for *years*. It's one of their three main openers (along with California Girls and Surfin') and I've seen them open with it in 2004, 2008 and 2011.

I know they've used it before, but now since it has sort of become the slogan of C50, I find it a bit inappropriate in 2013.

I hope they don't open with "DO it Again"...it really bugs me that some setlists from this year have shown that M&B are opening with it, especially after re-recording it last year for the reunion and literally doin' it again as so many commercial appeals say...I guess everyone is back to doin' SOMETHING again......

Minus the EXTREME hits that will be played by both Mike/Bruce and Brian/Al/David....I think they'll play the same length show that M&B do...approx 30 songs except, it'll sort of be the other half of the setlist from last year that Mike and Bruce are not touching!