I know they haven't been around in years. And they are just as sensitive as the next guy (hell, I took a verbal bash from Mark a time or two, but we always worked it out). Just to have that knowledge around is nice. It was this whole "when was the hardest time to be a fan, etc" that got me thinking about this. I was just kind of out on my own back then. There was a person with connections here in Houston that would help,  but mostly I was on my own.

Steve, I put this under another section but I can just put it here as well since THIS is the thread you are commenting on (dummy me!).

I know you have written extensively about these sessions in your book, but, I was just wondering an overall question. SO SO many writings on the Surf's Up track make it sound like it was a monumental undertaking to get this done technically. I would have thought that just transferring the old 4 track backing track up to a 16 track then recording the lead vocals would have started the process. But interviews with Jack R. (RIP) and others say that Carl spent night after night after night just trying to "find" the first part. Was he looking for something that wasn't found, or just kind of trolling thru the tapes?

Reading all of the posts by Steve Desper, Mark L, Alan B etc has really touched me. As a fan since the early 1970's, it has been great to have (since the mid 90s) people that are fans of this group's music on the inside and sharing that information with the rest of us. Reading Matt Jardine's interview about Brian's crew also reflects that. These people are sharing and protecting the legacy that in the 70s-80s was sometimes looked at like some old surf-pop boy band that was past its prime. Now in someways, the fans are running the show. And its great. Plus Brian et al have people around them that are trying to protect this legacy as well. It bodes well for their future.

Ok, off my soap box. Que the clowns!

Brian's band, without a doubt, are the best people to a man. And not only are the all top flight musicians and artists, they were (almost) all fans of the music before they went to work for him. Its great having the best people guard the musically legacy of this great man.

Nice to see people like this question. It has always kind of haunted me as to what the right course of action would be.

SWD - I know you have written extensively about these sessions in your book, but, I was just wondering an overall question. SO SO many writings on the Surf's Up track make it sound like it was a monumental undertaking to get this done technically. I would have thought that just transferring the old 4 track backing track up to a 16 track then recording the lead vocals would have started the process. But interviews with Jack R. (RIP) and others say that Carl spent night after night after night just trying to "find" the first part. Was he looking for something that wasn't found, or just kind of trolling thru the tapes?

I had heard that a new mix of San Miguel was prepared for Keepin the Summer Alive.  Was this the mix that was included on the original vinyl issue of TEN YEARS OF HARMONY?

COMMENT:  I have made dozens of mixes of San Miguel, but 12 mixes were completed and finished to the point of being labeled "Master" -- and placed in the vault.  All of them will be part of a study-video about San Miguel when I get around to making it.  It's a relatively easy song to mix. Some of you who went to the "Busy Doin' Nothing" convention some years ago did have the chance to "mix" San Miguel for yourself ... if you recall the little mixing board I set up in the corner of that hall. To get an answer to your question about TEN YEARS OF HARMONY, I suggest you ask Alan Boyd on his thread.   ~swd

I know I have said it before, but it bares repeating. THANK YOU THANK YOU Steve for answering these questions. It is SO nice to have someone who knows hands on about this music. So many would just kind of blow by and say forget it.

I talked to Brad E. about the version of the Letter that was on the Rarities LP in 1983. Here is what he said:

RF: The Letter sounds different than it does on the Wally Heider sessions. Is that just because the track has been mixed to mono with some reverb added?

BE: I think that's all there is to it, but that's a weird one in regard to trying to establish its origins. The tape that we found carried master number 58582, which (according to Capitol's sessions sheets) should have been a studio recording of the song cut Oct. 25, 1967 at Brian's house, right in the middle of the Wild Honey sessions. The fake live version of the song cut at Wally Heider's on Sept. 11 (during the session to record replacement tracks for that summer's Hawaii concert recordings) should have master number 58388. So, with no other information, we concluded what we had was the studio version of the song. Years later, when the Lei'd In Hawaii tape (actually from the Sept. 11 Heider session) leaked out, it included the same version of the song. Plus, the original liner notes for Wild Honey had turned up by then, and they indicated that a live version of the song from Hawaii (actually the Heider re-creation) was included in the album's original lineup -- which explains why Capitol had a copy of the song. All of this points to the fact that the version of The Letter included on Rarities is the Sept. 11 Heider recording. Still, I have to wonder about the fact that the tape we found carried the studio master number. Perhaps the two versions really are one and the same, except that the "studio version" had additional work done on it at Brian's home. Maybe that accounts for the difference in sound that you noted.

San Miguel was pulled for MIU and remixed. Then pulled again for KTSA. The version Carl used mastering TYOH was the remixed one. When they were working on LA in 1978, Bruce said the following:

"Guercio wants to open the album with “Rock Plymouth Rock/Roll” and end with “Been Way Too Long”. "

Late 1980 'til 1983. 1981 to 1982 was bad. It was really not pretty. No Carl made the shows almost unwatchable. Went to one show in 1982 with no Brian and Carl. They were under-rehearsed and in poor voice. As they went into Be My Baby (from Mike's solo LP), Mike said "We haven't rehearsed this. If you need to take a piss, now would be a good time."

And because Carl was the only one not touring, and because he really cared about the product, he took it upon himself to master the Ten Years Of Harmony set. It was said he remixed some tracks, but it doesn't really sound like it. I think he just remastered them with more EQ then before to give them some punch. It sounded GREAT!

I have said so many times that I thought this was the absolute coolest thing Carl Wilson did as a leader. There really was a feeling like "yeah Carl, your gonna quit, sure you are, you will sign the contracts and be back out with us in May". And he wasn't. He returned the touring contracts UNSIGNED. He was out at Caribou living and because Jimmy G. was a really good friend to Carl, he even intercepted calls between CBS and Carl so CBS couldn't get ahold of him. I saw Carl when he came through Houston that year and asked him about returning to the Beach Boys. He said nope, not until the record and "clean up their act". And we all know that the shows without Carl were awful. I got so mad at the group because there was a sense of "Yeah, so what if our shows suck. We are the MF Beach Boys! Buy a ticket and shut up!"

Of course we found out in 1982 on reason they pushed on. Just got look at AGD site and the shows for the group and for Mike Love solo. He was out in some form for most of the year. But it didn't help. In 1982, Mike filed for bankruptcy and his land etc all had to be sold. He was broke. So that was his pressure to continue. And the group had taken more advances for new LPs and the "hits" LP TYOH, but they did nothing to make those things happen. CBS finally said in the early summer of 1981, "ok, no LP's forthcoming, no more $$$$ support from us for your touring. You are on your own!"  Mike was even asked about Carl not touring and he said "We are having one of our biggest years every making money on the road and he isn't getting any of it."

I thought Carl would come back. But he made them wait. I love that he went out with them for 3 days early in 1982 then said "Nah, ain't happening." and went home. The guys them went on to have one of their worst casino gigs EVER. Read Add Some Music about it, or Ian and Jon's book. Really sad.

If Bob Hanes were around, he would give me a fit right about now, but I just wanted to ask something (since we have AGD, JS etc) on the boards, as well as the youngsters (not a derogatory term as I was once like you! ).

I have been re-reading the Tom Nolan article about Surf's Up from 1971 RS as well as other things written around that time. Here is the question. Was it right for the guys (meaning Carl and Al mostly) to push to get SMiLE tracks out to the public, whether to increase their $$$, their hipness or just to get this great music out. I am asking because FOREVER I have always felt NO. They should not have pushed Brian nor gone behind his back and released Our Prayer and Cabinessence. But, I guess with age comes a different prospective. Not a monetary one (at least for me), but a more real approach to the situation. Here me out.

Brian held damn near 100 sessions for SMILE. Each session was charged to the group by Capitol and removed from their normal payments to cover cost. Now, if we (the group) need to get this music out to get that money so we can even continue, shouldn't we have a say so in what goes on? Because in the end, its not Brian Wilson solo artist and these 5 other also-rans, but a complete unit. And we (the group) have our names on the same contracts as you Brian and we are responsible for the payments back to Capitol as you. So moving to get this music out on that level was wise. As a matter of fact, Steve Desper has said that Carl and Brian both went thru those tapes to try and find things to release to get that money from Capitol.

I have to admit that I use to feel Brian was this figure of an artist and those guys should have been damn lucky to even breathe the same air as him. If he did something that broke them financially, who cares, they wouldn't be there without him so what? I even use to argue that if Brian did something that caused them all to go broke, they should give up everything they have to make sure Brian was good. That I now know is how we look at everything these days. There are a few superstars, and the rest of the people should be lucky to be around them and not demand anything from them.

Now, on an artistic level, should they have put out these tracks. Well, the fact that these tracks were always well received should answer that. Surf's Up was lauded for the wonder jewel that it was. Such a precious stone. And while I use to argue they shouldn't have pushed to get it out, I would have been devastated if it hadn't. Carl I think really loved this music and knew Brian would received accolades from it. So would the rest of the group. But his brother would shine again. Maybe he thought that was what Brian needed.

Anyway, I wanted to ask to see what others have to say. Thanks for your time in reading this.

Dennis was sidelined with an upper resp infection when he was to sing lead on Vibes. But Carl should have always been the one to sing that.

We all know that Carl was thinking about turning Dennis over to Landy at the beginning of 1984. The rumor was that Dennis was going to be lured to the Big Bear house that the Beach Boys would meet at for holidays, only it was going to be just Brian, Carl, Landy and some REALLY BIG dudes. If Dennis had made it that meeting, does anyone think he might have been saved. Yes we know what Landy did with Brian, but at least Dennis would have been sober for an extended period and might have been able to finally see beyond his prison. Remember to that Jim Guerio was also asking the Wilson family to be named Dennis' legal guardian at that time to also help get Dennis right.

I am going to put my 2 cents worth in right now. I think this is one time that the BB messed up. Dennis was aggressive, meaning that an aggressive response was necessary. If they really wanted to help Dennis, they should have pushed alot harder. When they say later "Hey, no one thought Dennis would ever DIE from this", that is just macho BS. Everyone can die. Everyone. As we all soon learned.

Here is what always fascinates me. Forget the number of unreleased tracks (of course I mean before we got the box sets). No other group that I know of had the number of unreleased LPs (or "projects"). That boggles my mind.

Live In Chicago 1965
Live at U of M 1966
SMiLE
Live In Hawaii 1967
Reverberations
Add Some Music
The Second Brother LP
SMiLE 1972
The Single LIVE LP 1972
The Caribou sessions 1974
New Album
Adult Child
Cousins Friends and Brothers 1982
The Reunion Project 1995
Stars And Stripes Vol 2

I am sure some will say these were proposed LPs and not really intended for release. I am just saying these were projects that were started and moved forward with a definite plan.

Brian and Dennis wanted to bring a horse into the studio to make the dogs bark more. Listen to the Banana and Louie sessions from Pet Sounds.

Banana And Louie   (15:51)
Recorded: 3/22/66
Masterpieces don't come easy; certainly, the recording of the "tail end" of the Pet Sounds album was no simple task.  Brian brought his two beagles, Banana and Louie, into the studios to provide a few actual pet sounds to wind up the LP.  With the assistance of Brian's wife Marilyn and brother Dennis and his son Scott, the dogs were let  loose at Western Studios to do their best, which is what we hear for several minutes.  However, Brian was a stern taskmaster to the hapless hounds as he was to his musicians.  At one point, Brian seems to have learned how to treat his dogs from his father Murray, screaming "Get up there!!" when one of the dogs doesn't want to put its paws up on the keyboards as Brian is demanding.  Scott Wilson is treated similarly by his dad, with Dennis threatening not to give him his Batman ring of Scott doesn't provoke the dogs to bark as directed.  Marilyn's plea to Brian, "Honey, but they're so tired already" means nothing to the artiste at work.  Eventually, Brian got what he wanted, but as this tape shows, it wasn't a lot of fun getting there.

I was wrong. It's the PS boxset from 1996. Disc three, track 24 (that is what happens when I don't go and listen first). Brian talks about bringing a horse in, Dennis says that he could bring his but would have to rent a trailer. THen they say you know what you do? Pictures of horses in the studio, oh just pictures of them (rather than the horse itself).

I wanted to bump this because I am desperately looking for a copy of this special. I had it on cassette that was copied from the reels. During my 1989 divorce, she took it and threw it out (long story). Been looking ever since. Coming up on the 40th and I would love to have a primo copy. I got a download from one of the members of this board, and I really appreciated it. But I would like to find a copy with good sound. It was lucky that I made a safety of the Good Vibrations portion of the show.

Brian and Dennis wanted to bring a horse into the studio to make the dogs bark more. Listen to the Banana and Louie sessions from Pet Sounds.

Banana And Louie   (15:51)
Recorded: 3/22/66
Masterpieces don't come easy; certainly, the recording of the "tail end" of the Pet Sounds album was no simple task.  Brian brought his two beagles, Banana and Louie, into the studios to provide a few actual pet sounds to wind up the LP.  With the assistance of Brian's wife Marilyn and brother Dennis and his son Scott, the dogs were let  loose at Western Studios to do their best, which is what we hear for several minutes.  However, Brian was a stern taskmaster to the hapless hounds as he was to his musicians.  At one point, Brian seems to have learned how to treat his dogs from his father Murray, screaming "Get up there!!" when one of the dogs doesn't want to put its paws up on the keyboards as Brian is demanding.  Scott Wilson is treated similarly by his dad, with Dennis threatening not to give him his Batman ring of Scott doesn't provoke the dogs to bark as directed.  Marilyn's plea to Brian, "Honey, but they're so tired already" means nothing to the artiste at work.  Eventually, Brian got what he wanted, but as this tape shows, it wasn't a lot of fun getting there.

I LOVE Brian Wilson. Everything about him, good and bad, I take at face value. But we must remember that this song was cut during the time seen below. No matter where you come down on this tune, the times and situation color the outcome!

THAT could be true as well. He does sound alot like he does on I FEEL SO FINE from the Denny/Garby sessions.

Please don't jump on me for this, but after listening to this track and also re-listening to the California Feeling demo, I find these disturbing. Because it sounds like a guy who is extremely emotional. The way he hangs those notes, drawing them out. Yes he is emoting, but it also sounds like someone on the edge. I could be wrong, but I have been listening to Brian demo's for a LONG LONG time.

Just my opinion.

One thing that has ALWAYS troubled me (tho its happening less and less today) is that George Martin did ALOT for the Beatles and they would not as iconic without him, yet people were reluctant to give him credit. Back in the day (I am old enough to remember) people would say "I don't even know what Martin does, just sit there and watch the truly talented at work then collect a check." There really was that attitude, even among people that should have known better (I am looking right at you Jann Wenner!).

Martin once commented that he and Paul were talking around 1965 while listening to the Beach Boys:

PM:"who writes the music?"
GM:"Brian."
PM:"Who arranged and produces them?"
GM:"Brian"
PM:"Its not bloody fair that he has all that talent."
GM:"No it isnt (of course this was all said while laughing)."

NM, I am nuts. I just found the notes where it was said a 2nd generation tape of SU was used back in the 1990's and Mark found a first gen master of the track. Sorry to waste ur time .

Ok, I know this was corrected in 1999 with the Best Of The Brother Years CD. There was no "bleed through" from another channel on the left side of the stereo spectrum. But listening back to my 1991 SU CD and the boxset, I am not sure that this IS bleed through (from another song being dubbed etc). It sounds like just an echo of the vocal track or the track where the MOOG was added. I only bring this up because I got out my old AMPEX cassette of SU from 1971 which has great sound compared to the cassettes that would come later from the labels themselves. And low and behold, there is the same bleed through that we heard back in the 1990's CD releases.

I guess my question is, do we know if that was really bleed through or not. Because, even in the "fixed" versions, I kind of still hear it.

Rolling Stone gave Love You a good review then said it sucked later on. So you know............